We have no answers to removal spells, which is what unexpectedly absent offers- O ring can't save a key card from maelstrom pulse or abrupt decay. UA offers both the ability to remove theirs and the ability to play at instant speed to remove any permanent bar emrakul and manlands, including ours, allowing us to recast next turn. Instant speed is obviously very important to he card's usage. It certainly does not require the opponent to activate fetches to make the card good (3/4 of my activations are not in response to fetches), you can still get rid of a goyf for a turn or 3, or pop a delver on top t2, sometimes slowing their mana development.
Plus, chalice for one makes swords and tutors dead, and this allows eot UA for 2 mana on a chalice + E tutor, potentially a turn earlier than O ring if you find it off a scrack.
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We don't need answers to removal. Game one they see all the dead cards they have against us and replace them with answers to what we are doing. We add in more ways to win when we cut dead cards and in a way that doesn't hurt our plan. Deck knowledge is key. We can play around sorceries and can already beat instants if we want.
I've played through Iona's and chalices with my build. It's not optimal but we can beat them without playing a weak card.
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I play it main deck now in a swords slot..it has been often more useful than o ring, to be honest, mainly due to instant speed, and much better than swords- the card it replaces in my build. Swords just does creatures which we can generally deal with well via humilty, ghostly etc. Incidentally it works really well with oring's trigger on the stack- it has lots of little things going for it like that, just keeps options open, especially in those early turns, adding more flexibility to an already flexible deck. It is only weak in the same way o ring and swords are sometimes weak. Maybe its just a playstyle thing, I feel more comfortable with that card lurking in the deck. I guess the beauty of our deck is that once it starts to do its thing...all the cards can be replaced
Iona is not that much of an issue for me either, chalice is more worrying.
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i am going to try assemble the legion as a one-of in the main..what do you think of this card WeaponX and drmarkb? any thoughts and/or assessment about it, i assume you've tried it..
or should it rather be relegated to the board?
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
I have never used a red splash (just B and G for board cards, really, although I am tempted to include Energy Field from blue and back to basics), but I have at least used the card in low tier RW lockdown decks in Modern, as a win con that can generate blockers to start it is great in that critter obsessed format, it certainly gathers momentum very quickly, but whether it can transfer to Legacy, I I can't really guess.
I think 5cc is pushing it myself for Parfait, but weapon X is the man with the red splash plan.
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I think it's fine, but I feel it lacks the finishing power of other options. To clarify, you don't win immediately when you play it which is the draw to combo wins. It and elspeth however should be fine together.
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I like the field a little more in the sideboard personally. Impacting our main engine is a beating. If it can single handedly beat my opponent I'm in though.
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So I've read the first and last pages of this thread and I'm really interested in the deck. One thing I don't quite get is the inclusion of single lands as karakas and maze in some versions. I understand that with this deck games tend to go long, but without a way to tutor it seems very random to hope you have them when you need them.
i know not of any good parfait lists that runs those lands(karakas, maze of ith)..some non-basic lands that i sometimes see ran are sol lands, Serra's Sanctum, Mistveil Plains, etc..i am not a fan of running too many non-basic lands in parfait because i have a bloodmoon in the main..
What are the thoughts on a small green splash with crop rotation? It benefits land tax, which also makes splashing very easy, we get access to another powerful toolbox and we could also include a single sterling grove to protect our enchantments and as a fifth tutoring effect.
that sounds like an enchantress deck..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
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I use 2 x Karakas and often Maze but it is not really to do with needing their abilities too often, it is just Mox Diamond maths vs my curve and my meta. I don't like pitching a land to Mox diamond without another in hand on t1, as good players Force Land tax on sight [everyone knows the deck in paper mtg circles here] and a single land start with no Land Tax= rapid death, whereas a two real land-er is often keepable- karakas takes the real land count to 17, excluding Outposts. I run two Kjeldoran Outposts that munch plains for different reasons, they are more integral for me. My curve is slightly greedy with cards like Humility x2 and a couple more 3 drops than normal with fewer one drops (lots of Chalice decks in my meta). The extra mana sources are useful when Land Tax bites it, or Chalice is dropped t1. Traditional Parfait runs about 15 basics and 4 moxen, which is not enough for the deck the way I have set it up, I need the greater land count hence two Karakas on top of the basics. Maze is more questionable, it is nice to pitch to Mox early in some matches without leaving me exposed to a "I have not got a land-tax blowout", but really its just in for a Swords in the one slot- again trying to vary removal away from Swords. It is worth noting that I run two Zuran Orbs.
I am not a fan of Mistveil plains in a 3 or 4 Rest in Peace deck, btw, that sounds really odd. My Kjeldoran Outposts are essential vs Miracles- they can't deal with them and change the dynamic considerably. Needless to say I do not use Blood Moon [it would be a terrible choice in my meta with decks mentioned below plus Merfolk, Delver, Burn, Pox, Nic-Fit and Miracles, although it does hurt Eldrazi and BUG].....)
My meta does have Reanimator and Affinity in, both are good in against reanimator(I have beaten a few Iona's in my time), Maze is good against Affinity. It has a lot of D n T, which is an good match anyway, but Karakas and Maze don't hurt. Maverick has been common here and Karakas does indeed put Teeg back to enable me to cast Humility. So the cards are a good fit for that meta, but the real reasons are land count vs curve.
I would not use Sterling Grove in Parfait, its just awkward on most Parfait Curves, and if it was added in I would reckon you would end up with Enchantress as the temptation would be to add in more synergistic stuff. I do like Krosan Grip and Choke, though as board cards.
i wish we have videos of parfait playing against other legacy decks..the only ones existing as far as i know are the ones i posted a couple of years ago, and that was a vintage format, hardly relevant material for anyone willing to take it to legacy..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
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I like to see videos but don't feel the need for it here as much as some other decks. It is a very personal type of deck, reminiscent of pox in that respect.
I think the main thing is to get practice with the deck. I am out of practice with it, but when I pick it up it comes back very quickly, unlike many decks I own.
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I like to see videos but don't feel the need for it here as much as some other decks. It is a very personal type of deck, reminiscent of pox in that respect.
I think the main thing is to get practice with the deck. I am out of practice with it, but when I pick it up it comes back very quickly, unlike many decks I own.
i played it a lot last weekend and beat up on an eldrazi deck..i also played against a grixis delver deck, the matches were neither good nor bad..they have a lot of permission and its often tough to resolve stuff but the good thing is if one resolves, it will usually cripple them, we just have so many good cards against them..reanimator is really difficult because they have an "i win button" in the form of iona..burn, i'd consider a favorable matchup, unless they get a nut draw and they kill blisteringly fast even before we can resolve our hate cards against them..
so those are the decks i played against last weekend..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
my list is based on yours with just some tweaks..and after running it for some time, i've always felt a little disappointed with confinement..i'm thinking of replacing it with another wrath effect, either the fourth wrath of god or a copy of day of judgement..or maybe even a suppression field..i don't know..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
Iona I have beaten with Karakas, and using dudes from Outpost and damage from scroll.
The main thing is not dying to the Iona, which means finding the Karakas or Maze that I run.
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I find solitary one of the best main deckable answers to everything. That's the main reason I play it. It steals games on its own. Burn is a prime example of that. Sometimes it's also enough to just be a time walk.
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so no new toys for us to tinker or play around with from the new sets..
do you guys think sanctum prelate is something we should be worried about? it stops our wrath effects and our win cons..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
Not really, it is another hate bear, but I play 2 humility. I also have a well-discussed tendency to carry Unexpectedly Absent and Swords mixed rather than just Swords- Chalice decks are prevalent here and decks that run too many 1cc answers get Chaliced. UA gives a bit of flexibility to deal with such a card. Once Humility resolves, Prelate is a mighty 1/1 with zero effect. If it does not resolve then Cursed Scroll can deal with a 2/2. Generally I think Prelate can only make Maverick and D N T shells, neither are decks I am desperately worried about, although both are very underrated decks in general. Our Land Tax set up happens quicker than Prelate will happen anyway, I am more worried about being on the draw to a Chalice/Sol land deck than a t2 at best (t3 in d n t) Prelate. I think they are aiming Prelate at more unfair decks than Parfait, which in all its guises is a Toolbox Prison deck with a couple of ridiculous combos.
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Like most chalice effects against us it can only stop one thing which means we can deal with it already. If it stops a win con it isn't stopping our removal and vice versa.
If we could find it with enlightened it would be worth a slot in the 75.
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I played 4 rounds of this tonight, 18 player FNM, I just wanted to keep my hand in. Played it in the afternoon to get back into it splitting games vs Maverick.
R1 Burn
Easy 2-0 win
R2 Miracles. 2-0 To be fair he was new to the deck and made a couple of serious howlers, enabling me to nick games I probably would have lost.
The Krosan Grip tech was good here, but I found myself wishing for a 'Geddon from the board.
R3 Enchantress. This was my deck I loaned out. I assembled the helm combo both games before him and lost both as he found removal with me unable to activate. I was one mana short of activating on each turn. Oh for a Mox, Oh for a land respectively. I had to force them down and hope he blanked on removal as in both games he was in a position to go nuts next turn. I really needed to see Spirit of the Labyrinth or Canonist in game 2, but the one thing I did not see were tutors. He won the event 4-0.
R4 NIc Fit.
G1 was a routine and quick win.
G2 I lost in 40 mins in turns- I had 4 turns where I was an Orims short of going off, and in the end I lost as I accidentally kept a RIP in my hand off a scrack- a physical rather than mental error in the manipulating -which got Cabaled blindly. Later, with about ten cards left in my library it got extracted, which is unusual as they normally become exiled one way or the other. His board included Vraska (apologies for Spelling). Unexpectedly absent was an absolute beast in the match, kept me in it. Probably should have kept the Orim's numbers up higher than I did game 2, maybe should have boarded in the an extra Needle.
So I grabbed 5th spot, felt I should have won the last but lost the second matches, so it evened out.
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based on my playtest last saturday against miracles, i feel we do have good game against them, having so many haymakers that cost 4 kinda throws them off..i've won games even when he already have the counter/top active..one was when he conceded after i geddoned him..
i recommend a copy of Armageddon at the side, god against them, eldrazi, mud and cloudpost..
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"I am the purifier, the light that clears all shadows."
—Seal inscription
Plus, chalice for one makes swords and tutors dead, and this allows eot UA for 2 mana on a chalice + E tutor, potentially a turn earlier than O ring if you find it off a scrack.
I've played through Iona's and chalices with my build. It's not optimal but we can beat them without playing a weak card.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Iona is not that much of an issue for me either, chalice is more worrying.
or should it rather be relegated to the board?
—Seal inscription
I think 5cc is pushing it myself for Parfait, but weapon X is the man with the red splash plan.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I like the field a little more in the sideboard personally. Impacting our main engine is a beating. If it can single handedly beat my opponent I'm in though.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Nodes - great in Modern fringe decks.
Field- sideboard card for my mind.
based on testing, if miracles and eldrazi would be the decks to beat, i'd gladly shelf my beloved pox and bust them with parfait again..
—Seal inscription
i know not of any good parfait lists that runs those lands(karakas, maze of ith)..some non-basic lands that i sometimes see ran are sol lands, Serra's Sanctum, Mistveil Plains, etc..i am not a fan of running too many non-basic lands in parfait because i have a bloodmoon in the main..
that sounds like an enchantress deck..
—Seal inscription
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
I am not a fan of Mistveil plains in a 3 or 4 Rest in Peace deck, btw, that sounds really odd. My Kjeldoran Outposts are essential vs Miracles- they can't deal with them and change the dynamic considerably. Needless to say I do not use Blood Moon [it would be a terrible choice in my meta with decks mentioned below plus Merfolk, Delver, Burn, Pox, Nic-Fit and Miracles, although it does hurt Eldrazi and BUG].....)
My meta does have Reanimator and Affinity in, both are good in against reanimator(I have beaten a few Iona's in my time), Maze is good against Affinity. It has a lot of D n T, which is an good match anyway, but Karakas and Maze don't hurt. Maverick has been common here and Karakas does indeed put Teeg back to enable me to cast Humility. So the cards are a good fit for that meta, but the real reasons are land count vs curve.
I would not use Sterling Grove in Parfait, its just awkward on most Parfait Curves, and if it was added in I would reckon you would end up with Enchantress as the temptation would be to add in more synergistic stuff. I do like Krosan Grip and Choke, though as board cards.
—Seal inscription
I think the main thing is to get practice with the deck. I am out of practice with it, but when I pick it up it comes back very quickly, unlike many decks I own.
interesting point..
i played it a lot last weekend and beat up on an eldrazi deck..i also played against a grixis delver deck, the matches were neither good nor bad..they have a lot of permission and its often tough to resolve stuff but the good thing is if one resolves, it will usually cripple them, we just have so many good cards against them..reanimator is really difficult because they have an "i win button" in the form of iona..burn, i'd consider a favorable matchup, unless they get a nut draw and they kill blisteringly fast even before we can resolve our hate cards against them..
so those are the decks i played against last weekend..
—Seal inscription
my list is based on yours with just some tweaks..and after running it for some time, i've always felt a little disappointed with confinement..i'm thinking of replacing it with another wrath effect, either the fourth wrath of god or a copy of day of judgement..or maybe even a suppression field..i don't know..
—Seal inscription
The main thing is not dying to the Iona, which means finding the Karakas or Maze that I run.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
do you guys think sanctum prelate is something we should be worried about? it stops our wrath effects and our win cons..
—Seal inscription
If we could find it with enlightened it would be worth a slot in the 75.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
R1 Burn
Easy 2-0 win
R2 Miracles. 2-0 To be fair he was new to the deck and made a couple of serious howlers, enabling me to nick games I probably would have lost.
The Krosan Grip tech was good here, but I found myself wishing for a 'Geddon from the board.
R3 Enchantress. This was my deck I loaned out. I assembled the helm combo both games before him and lost both as he found removal with me unable to activate. I was one mana short of activating on each turn. Oh for a Mox, Oh for a land respectively. I had to force them down and hope he blanked on removal as in both games he was in a position to go nuts next turn. I really needed to see Spirit of the Labyrinth or Canonist in game 2, but the one thing I did not see were tutors. He won the event 4-0.
R4 NIc Fit.
G1 was a routine and quick win.
G2 I lost in 40 mins in turns- I had 4 turns where I was an Orims short of going off, and in the end I lost as I accidentally kept a RIP in my hand off a scrack- a physical rather than mental error in the manipulating -which got Cabaled blindly. Later, with about ten cards left in my library it got extracted, which is unusual as they normally become exiled one way or the other. His board included Vraska (apologies for Spelling). Unexpectedly absent was an absolute beast in the match, kept me in it. Probably should have kept the Orim's numbers up higher than I did game 2, maybe should have boarded in the an extra Needle.
So I grabbed 5th spot, felt I should have won the last but lost the second matches, so it evened out.
i recommend a copy of Armageddon at the side, god against them, eldrazi, mud and cloudpost..
—Seal inscription
anyone here have tried it?
—Seal inscription