Try a few games with it. One wasteland hardly affects the game unless it hits something significant or if the opponent is screwed on mana. HOWEVER, being able to fetch them is really significant. If you want to, you can easily draw 4 wasteland...which often gives you the leverage you need to win.
Yea, its a lot of 1/1's... you win with either garruk as an over run effect, or jitte, or KoTR. Mother of Runes + Ranger often seals the game if you can get a Viper on the board or a KoTR.
Sure its not a Stasis deck, but I've tested it a lot and the version that played with Stasis mainboard were not as good. Think about it, if it comes in from the board the opponent cannot board in grip/wipeaway until game 3, if he can even win game 3. To put that another way...I've found Stasis to be more effective as a surprise then as a strategy. It fits in perfectly so I adapted the deck to support it post-board.
In short, I've managed to beat zoo mererly cause they don't always play basics. The decks that don't get completely destroyed, the others have a chance, but my games are usually 2-0. They literally need to remove everything I play other than mana accelerants, so it makes it harder for them to play creatures, especially when I am stifling fetchlands and brainstorming into more wastelands. The deck is great against aggro, aggro control, and control. I find myself losing to bad hands, opposing god draws, stax, and DnT. Other than that my DTB matchup is fairly good.
How about we forget about wastland and stay on track by talking crap about silly decks that get posted? Then still not take stasis to any large tourny or PTQ...
Stasis is ultimately mana denial.dec. Wasteland + stifle is mana denial in the main board. Sure 1 of each isn't always going to do ☺☺☺☺... The point is to bring in Stasis against decks where non-basic mana denial doesn't work. Elves, goblins, DnT, merfolk.. Other than that most decks play lots of nonbasics, or fetchlands for either non-basics or basics.. Often Stasis comes in for game 2, rarely it does not. Its a surprise. It gives you leverage in the postboard.
Either way...exploring new avenues of stasis play isn't a bad thing.
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i completely agree that any deck built around stasis can never be tier 1. because its too easy to get by... and yes stasis from the SB would supprise most anybody...
but your deck seems to contradict itself alot...
*of your 18 lands 6 produce colored mana
*7x creatures return foressts to ur hand 4x creatures sacrafice forrests
* You have zero way to play more than one a turn and zero way to utilize your lands from the grave
..
then i just dont understand the 2 tech cards in there... when u have no tutoring ability for them.
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i completely agree that any deck built around stasis can never be tier 1. because its too easy to get by... and yes stasis from the SB would supprise most anybody...
but your deck seems to contradict itself alot...
*of your 18 lands 6 produce colored mana
*7x creatures return foressts to ur hand 4x creatures sacrafice forrests
* You have zero way to play more than one a turn and zero way to utilize your lands from the grave
..
then i just dont understand the 2 tech cards in there... when u have no tutoring ability for them.
You dont need colored mana after a certain point due to Hierarch and BoP + rangers. That produces 4 mana, which can play out anything in the deck. More often than not the deck runs off of just 1 land.
The 7x creatures that return forests are to abuse untap effects. KoTR is just a means to win. Once you are using him to sac forests, just leave yourself with 1 and you should be fine.
Zero way to play more than one what? Land? Sure but I have all the acceleration I need with Hierarch + Rangers or just the mana accelerants themselves. I dont have a way to utilize my lands from the grave.. KoTR is the reason I can use my lands from the grave. There isn't much of a downside for lands being in my grave anyway. You dont criticize merfolk for running wasteland and not being able to do anything with lands in the grave...
Brainstorm and SDT are my 'tutors' there are quite a few search and shuffle effects in the deck that make a brainstorm great, and an SDT amazing.
Also, I never claimed this list was optimized so there are sure to be problems like the ones that you mentioned. I will likely drop Birds in favor of some Aether Vial action, but I have yet to test it. Im busy preparing with Pact SI for a local tournament so I will pursue vial testing later.
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i dont know what kind of build you are using... but the always changing stasis i have is always about recyling lands... thanx to exploration. i tried things like Azusa, Lost but Seeking and manabond and Burgeoning but just kinda overkill i found..
as for the thwart i often bounce between it and and foil for the better card in here and normally stick with thwart. and normally im already not too concerned with creatures on the other side of the board but now i can stop blockers or poss attackers alike!. and ive put it in place of my bounce which made room for more control. spell pierce. i like it! and it runs well because its normally not a creature i need to counter!!!
i still want to drop somthing to get atleast 4x brainstorm or SDT any kind of draw power in this beasty!! orrr does it need it?
The deck does need search. I run 4 brainstorms and 3 impulse. Ensnare is a great SB card against elves, goblins or zoo. But again, it'd be tougher to use if you choose to splash green.
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buuut if you look at this build youll see there is no other way to deal with any creatures what so ever... remove kill bounce etc... so if the opp has any kind of blocker i cant get through with my tiny lil guys...except for a 1/1 flyer... or eventually my garruk will have untapped sooo many lands ill start making tokens then overrun...
another thaught.. maybe -2 thwart + 2 forbid
because i can pop my lands to my hand counter with forbid using buyback by dicarding my lands then crucible them back into play!!
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So your stasis deck wins with tiny little guys? It's time to revamp your stasis deck and reevaulate why you are playing stasis in the first place.
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This deck is epic fail. Krosan Grip, and Wipe Away are the bane of this deck, and so is StP. Also since wasteland and Force of Will are pretty much in every deck, the chasm plan fails too
I totally agree with this statement but for a couple different reasons. First of all I don't think the deck list is fail, I just think the archetype is too outdated for competitive play. When Spell Snare, a heavily played counter spell sees as much play as it does and both your key lock component and win condition cost two mana that's an issue. Also even with decks that don't run spell snare there's a good chance their running Wasteland. Go to deckcheck.net and see how many legacy decks are running Wasteland these days. I would venture a conservative guess at a little over 65%., If you hit one of those decks your Forsaken City isn't sticking around for long. And while Arcane Denial does go well with the whole deck out strategy the problem is by countering the threat at hand you have just given them a 1 card advantage over you, and probably even given them another threat. To be honest i just don't see how this archetype can compete with Tempo Thresh, Aggro Loam, Imperial Painter, Merfolk, or any Top tier deck for that matter in any form. Not just this.
i just want to play the opposing side of the argument because...lol
we answer spell snare the same we answer other counters... with our counters..
krosan grip is 3cc... if stasis is out and the opp has 3 available your playing stasis wrong.
wasteland is cute!! how intelegent of you to bring it up.. i dont think weve covered that in this thread yet.. so im thinking that the use of crucible of worlds, trade routes , rootmaze, &pithing needle would be completely useless against the 0-4 wastelands my opponents are running. and if they do get rid of my Forsaken City then i assume garruk , Quirion Ranger & Scryb Ranger would be too meager to help out in any way...
so you are completely right!! if i see a wasteland or a krosan grip anywhere i would just scoop and leave the table... thanks for saving me the embareASSment.
oh and ya Arcane Denial blows and i would never use it!!
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I don't think you people understand the lock. Wasteland comes into play tapped. You can't wasteland my forsaken city. I can drop forsaken after I force thru my frozen aether and stasis. You can't krosan grip either. I turnabout your lands at eot and then every land, artifact,creature you cast comes into play tapped when I drop frozen aether. It's a solid lock. Once I have it they lose. The problem is getting the lock. If you can out counter me, then you win. If I get the lock, I win. Your krosan grip, wipe away and wastelands are useless.
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I'm not going to sit here and get into a game of mental magic with you. Take your list to a tournament. See how it does and post match results here. But I can tell you for a fact there was a guy at our local tournament who quit showing up because he never won a match with stasis and that was the only legacy deck he could afford. Then again my meta is heavy blue and combo. Oh! by the way whats your answer to Ad Nauseum combo, and Doomsday combo? both of which can combo off 2nd-3rd turn with protection and not tap a single land till they do so. And Root Maze is not a valid answer.
(PaPaSmurf) = thats cool... so what was ur bff deck list that always played and lost with stasi?? that may have a small tiny itsy bitsy factor in why he sucked out...
my answer is counterbalance with zuran orb on top... since you say i cant use the one card that is in the SB for that exact reason...
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Ill get you a list this Friday. Also the reason Root Maze isn't an answer is because all it does is slow them down a bit. It doesn't shut them down. Besides all the top lists i've seen, and played against of Doomsday and Ad Nauseum run a MD Chain of Vapor to be tutored for or put in the Doomsday stack. By the way we hated the guy that played stasis. Nobody knew his real name. We all called him Stasis Guy, and there were a couple of instances of table flipping when he would get a game 1 lock. So i guess I have to retract my previous statement about him NEVER winning any games. some people did DQ themselves out of anger. Also you know a Counterbalance with a land on top works just as well right? i'm not trying to insult your intelligence but I figured I would ask since we are talking about competitive stasis
Looks good but definitely slow. You have counter though so that will help. My buddy loves stasis so I'll show this to him. Two things I see though is Wasteland, and Ritual combo running through this lock hard. You need a win condition as letting your opponent draw their whole deck is no good. You run out of time in tournament, or then break the lock, or you have a stress heartattack thinking they will.
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I'm not going to sit here and get into a game of mental magic with you. Take your list to a tournament. See how it does and post match results here. But I can tell you for a fact there was a guy at our local tournament who quit showing up because he never won a match with stasis and that was the only legacy deck he could afford. Then again my meta is heavy blue and combo. Oh! by the way whats your answer to Ad Nauseum combo, and Doomsday combo? both of which can combo off 2nd-3rd turn with protection and not tap a single land till they do so. And Root Maze is not a valid answer.
I never disputed the fact that stasis isn't a top deck. I am mainly criticising that some of you think wasteland, wipe away and krosan grip are the bane of this deck. The fact is, once I have the lock, you can sit there with all 4 wastelands, krosan grips and wipe aways and cry your eyes out because there is no way out. What makes this deck fragile are hand disruption and counterspells. And yes, I have tested this in tournaments. I've beaten zoo, goblins, combo elves etc... I've lost to ant, combo, pox etc... And let me reiterate, yes this deck sucks. But It has a chance to do well but will most likely not win any tournaments. I feel sorry for your playgroup. Flipping over tables and unsportsmanlike conduct isn't ok where I'm from. Maybe they were just pissed cause they were getting beat by a crappy player with a crappy deck.
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tom how in the world is a stasis deck without any main deck locks other than stasis supposed to win? it will lose game one then the opponent boards some enchantment hate and, well if it can beat you game one then those rootmazes are not gonna do anything with out any sort of tutor, so im guessing you game plan is muligan like crazy until you hit a rootmaze game 2 and 3 and hope they are not playing drege or any other deck thats not mana dependent?
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tom how in the world is a stasis deck without any main deck locks other than stasis supposed to win? it will lose game one then the opponent boards some enchantment hate and, well if it can beat you game one then those rootmazes are not gonna do anything with out any sort of tutor, so im guessing you game plan is muligan like crazy until you hit a rootmaze game 2 and 3 and hope they are not playing drege or any other deck thats not mana dependent?
10x counters and 4x counterbalance...stop majority of things i need to be stopped unless its "split second" so that means krosan grip... 3cc so when they SB it i SB root maze which is 1cc...
and as far as tutors go.. i have 3x SDT and 3x brainstorm w/ 8x fetch lands to cycle my deck... not including the mid game trade route that is an insane drawing engine!!
the explorations are huge with my creatures to create fast mana. not including the garruk and crucible also helping out! then the stasis isnt exactly a t1-t4 drop if i dont need it to be. but i can work under it without any stall what so ever...
but i have been looking at turnabout, ensnare, frozen aether and other lock components as well...but im not sure what is really NEEDED...
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I think he is questioning your decks ability to win. You really plan on beating someone down with your weak creatures? You're only using stasis to slow them down? Countering everything does not win you games. Sweatyman is right. You will lose game one against dread. I'm pretty sure it's like 90/10. Dread would need a god aweful draw to lose to you game one.
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Seriously? You would use a two card combo, root maze and amulet of valor which does a lesser job than one Frozen Æther? Root maze + Amulet of valor only causes your opponents artifacts and lands come into play tapped. Frozen Æther does that and causes their creatures to come into play tapped as well.
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Well, that's what I use tangle wire for. I slow them down far enough so I can later cast the lock with counter back up. My question is why would you even want to tutor it later after you have the lock? It's not even required to keep the lock or to protect it.
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does Garruk Wildspeaker have any abilities that may assist in making my little creatures more apealing to yall?? or even create creatures you may like??
and im running counterbalance that locks up turn 2 like any other CB/SDT and i have a stasis lock component to help me to further the soft lock... i am running the same counter components as any other blue control would have.. so there is no advantage to any of them.. and i lock the game and function completely well while under it...
my stasis deck is not nearly as weak as you are thinking. you need to proxy out a copy and run it through the gauntlet before being to critical of what it cant do.. please.
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Yea, its a lot of 1/1's... you win with either garruk as an over run effect, or jitte, or KoTR. Mother of Runes + Ranger often seals the game if you can get a Viper on the board or a KoTR.
Sure its not a Stasis deck, but I've tested it a lot and the version that played with Stasis mainboard were not as good. Think about it, if it comes in from the board the opponent cannot board in grip/wipeaway until game 3, if he can even win game 3. To put that another way...I've found Stasis to be more effective as a surprise then as a strategy. It fits in perfectly so I adapted the deck to support it post-board.
In short, I've managed to beat zoo mererly cause they don't always play basics. The decks that don't get completely destroyed, the others have a chance, but my games are usually 2-0. They literally need to remove everything I play other than mana accelerants, so it makes it harder for them to play creatures, especially when I am stifling fetchlands and brainstorming into more wastelands. The deck is great against aggro, aggro control, and control. I find myself losing to bad hands, opposing god draws, stax, and DnT. Other than that my DTB matchup is fairly good.
Stasis is ultimately mana denial.dec. Wasteland + stifle is mana denial in the main board. Sure 1 of each isn't always going to do ☺☺☺☺... The point is to bring in Stasis against decks where non-basic mana denial doesn't work. Elves, goblins, DnT, merfolk.. Other than that most decks play lots of nonbasics, or fetchlands for either non-basics or basics.. Often Stasis comes in for game 2, rarely it does not. Its a surprise. It gives you leverage in the postboard.
Either way...exploring new avenues of stasis play isn't a bad thing.
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i completely agree that any deck built around stasis can never be tier 1. because its too easy to get by... and yes stasis from the SB would supprise most anybody...
but your deck seems to contradict itself alot...
*of your 18 lands 6 produce colored mana
*7x creatures return foressts to ur hand 4x creatures sacrafice forrests
* You have zero way to play more than one a turn and zero way to utilize your lands from the grave
..
then i just dont understand the 2 tech cards in there... when u have no tutoring ability for them.
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
You dont need colored mana after a certain point due to Hierarch and BoP + rangers. That produces 4 mana, which can play out anything in the deck. More often than not the deck runs off of just 1 land.
The 7x creatures that return forests are to abuse untap effects. KoTR is just a means to win. Once you are using him to sac forests, just leave yourself with 1 and you should be fine.
Zero way to play more than one what? Land? Sure but I have all the acceleration I need with Hierarch + Rangers or just the mana accelerants themselves. I dont have a way to utilize my lands from the grave.. KoTR is the reason I can use my lands from the grave. There isn't much of a downside for lands being in my grave anyway. You dont criticize merfolk for running wasteland and not being able to do anything with lands in the grave...
Brainstorm and SDT are my 'tutors' there are quite a few search and shuffle effects in the deck that make a brainstorm great, and an SDT amazing.
Also, I never claimed this list was optimized so there are sure to be problems like the ones that you mentioned. I will likely drop Birds in favor of some Aether Vial action, but I have yet to test it. Im busy preparing with Pact SI for a local tournament so I will pursue vial testing later.
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ENSNARE WHY NOT IN EVERY STASIS DECK? wheather its for actually locking creatures or just untapping lands...
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
as for the thwart i often bounce between it and and foil for the better card in here and normally stick with thwart. and normally im already not too concerned with creatures on the other side of the board but now i can stop blockers or poss attackers alike!. and ive put it in place of my bounce which made room for more control. spell pierce. i like it! and it runs well because its normally not a creature i need to counter!!!
i still want to drop somthing to get atleast 4x brainstorm or SDT any kind of draw power in this beasty!! orrr does it need it?
4x Quirion Ranger
2x Scryb Ranger
2x lotus cobra
INSTANT -15
4x Force of Will
2x Thwart
4x daze
2x spell pierce
3x ensnare
ARTY/ENCHA -17
4x Stasis
4x exploration
3x crucible of worlds
2x zuran orb
4x mox diamond
2x garruk
LAND -18
3 flooded strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Forsaken City
3x island
2x forrest
4x rootmaze
2x rushing river
3x krosan grip
4x multanis presence
2x pithing needle
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4x Quirion Ranger
2x Scryb Ranger
2x lotus cobra
INSTANT -15
4x Force of Will
2x Thwart
4x daze
3x brainstorm
ARTY/ENCHA -17
4x Stasis
4x exploration
2x crucible of worlds
4x counterbalance
3x sencie's divine top
2x trade routes
2x garruk
LAND -18
3 flooded strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Forsaken City
2 Island
2 Forrest
1 Tranquil thicket
4x rootmaze
2x zuran orb
3x krosan grip
4x multanis presence
2x pithing needle
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
another thaught.. maybe -2 thwart + 2 forbid
because i can pop my lands to my hand counter with forbid using buyback by dicarding my lands then crucible them back into play!!
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
enlighten me please...what do u mean?
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
I totally agree with this statement but for a couple different reasons. First of all I don't think the deck list is fail, I just think the archetype is too outdated for competitive play. When Spell Snare, a heavily played counter spell sees as much play as it does and both your key lock component and win condition cost two mana that's an issue. Also even with decks that don't run spell snare there's a good chance their running Wasteland. Go to deckcheck.net and see how many legacy decks are running Wasteland these days. I would venture a conservative guess at a little over 65%., If you hit one of those decks your Forsaken City isn't sticking around for long. And while Arcane Denial does go well with the whole deck out strategy the problem is by countering the threat at hand you have just given them a 1 card advantage over you, and probably even given them another threat. To be honest i just don't see how this archetype can compete with Tempo Thresh, Aggro Loam, Imperial Painter, Merfolk, or any Top tier deck for that matter in any form. Not just this.
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we answer spell snare the same we answer other counters... with our counters..
krosan grip is 3cc... if stasis is out and the opp has 3 available your playing stasis wrong.
wasteland is cute!! how intelegent of you to bring it up.. i dont think weve covered that in this thread yet.. so im thinking that the use of crucible of worlds, trade routes , rootmaze, &pithing needle would be completely useless against the 0-4 wastelands my opponents are running. and if they do get rid of my Forsaken City then i assume garruk , Quirion Ranger & Scryb Ranger would be too meager to help out in any way...
so you are completely right!! if i see a wasteland or a krosan grip anywhere i would just scoop and leave the table... thanks for saving me the embareASSment.
oh and ya Arcane Denial blows and i would never use it!!
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
my answer is counterbalance with zuran orb on top... since you say i cant use the one card that is in the SB for that exact reason...
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I never disputed the fact that stasis isn't a top deck. I am mainly criticising that some of you think wasteland, wipe away and krosan grip are the bane of this deck. The fact is, once I have the lock, you can sit there with all 4 wastelands, krosan grips and wipe aways and cry your eyes out because there is no way out. What makes this deck fragile are hand disruption and counterspells. And yes, I have tested this in tournaments. I've beaten zoo, goblins, combo elves etc... I've lost to ant, combo, pox etc... And let me reiterate, yes this deck sucks. But It has a chance to do well but will most likely not win any tournaments. I feel sorry for your playgroup. Flipping over tables and unsportsmanlike conduct isn't ok where I'm from. Maybe they were just pissed cause they were getting beat by a crappy player with a crappy deck.
4x Quirion Ranger
2x Scryb Ranger
2x lotus cobra
INSTANT -15
4x Force of Will
2x Thwart
4x daze
3x brainstorm
ARTY/ENCHA -17
4x Stasis
4x exploration
2x crucible of worlds
4x counterbalance
3x sencie's divine top
2x trade routes
2x garruk
LAND -18
4 flooded strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Forsaken City
2 Island
1 Forrest
1 Tranquil thicket
4x rootmaze
2x zuran orb
3x krosan grip
4x multanis presence
2x pithing needle
great idea bro!! if you wana try out that mono blue version ill get started on a test spree with this build.
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10x counters and 4x counterbalance...stop majority of things i need to be stopped unless its "split second" so that means krosan grip... 3cc so when they SB it i SB root maze which is 1cc...
and as far as tutors go.. i have 3x SDT and 3x brainstorm w/ 8x fetch lands to cycle my deck... not including the mid game trade route that is an insane drawing engine!!
the explorations are huge with my creatures to create fast mana. not including the garruk and crucible also helping out! then the stasis isnt exactly a t1-t4 drop if i dont need it to be. but i can work under it without any stall what so ever...
but i have been looking at turnabout, ensnare, frozen aether and other lock components as well...but im not sure what is really NEEDED...
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
and im running counterbalance that locks up turn 2 like any other CB/SDT and i have a stasis lock component to help me to further the soft lock... i am running the same counter components as any other blue control would have.. so there is no advantage to any of them.. and i lock the game and function completely well while under it...
my stasis deck is not nearly as weak as you are thinking. you need to proxy out a copy and run it through the gauntlet before being to critical of what it cant do.. please.
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