I'm curious about building a second deck and Stasis has always been on my mind. I'm a mono B pox player and I want to annoy people in other ways. In your guys opinion, what is the best version of stasis? I'm a fan of The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, so I saw that mono U runs 2-3 of those. I'm for mixing colors, but I'm a fan of mono colored decks.
I'm curious about building a second deck and Stasis has always been on my mind. I'm a mono B pox player and I want to annoy people in other ways. In your guys opinion, what is the best version of stasis? I'm a fan of The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, so I saw that mono U runs 2-3 of those. I'm for mixing colors, but I'm a fan of mono colored decks.
I can give you my results with mono-u creatureless:
Against Maverick and most Stompy decks I am generally up.
Against affinity I am up further
Against D n T its really level
Against Burn I am up (although there is a massive disparity between game 1 (poor) and 2 (great)- I run chill in the board)
Against BUG delver and shardless bug I am very down
Against RUG delver I am down, although I have not tested much and it feels close
Against Grixis delver it seems level off little testing
Against Merfolk I am up considerably
I have avoided Elves and Painter, but have one match against Miracles- he nearly decked in turns having established his lock early.
Spiral Tide and especially ANT have been successfully chased out of my meta by a plethora of Chalice, and Pox decks, including Stax with its Trinispheres and Leylines. I am actually responsible in part for that, I play Stax and Parfait a lot, and often loan out Pox (with Trinispheres and Leylines) and Chalice decks like Merfolk and Thalia soldier Stompy.
I don't like Planeswalker versions of Stax- Bant creatures is fine, but the R/U Zarek versions have no way to protect the Zarek. I would avoid the hardlock frozen aether versions of mono-u. I have been speculating about Fevered Visions splashed into blue versions over Howling Mine.
The Stasis deck is very difficult to learn, rather like most prison decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I'm curious about building a second deck and Stasis has always been on my mind. I'm a mono B pox player and I want to annoy people in other ways. In your guys opinion, what is the best version of stasis? I'm a fan of The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, so I saw that mono U runs 2-3 of those. I'm for mixing colors, but I'm a fan of mono colored decks.
I can give you my results with mono-u creatureless:
Against Maverick and most Stompy decks I am generally up.
Against affinity I am up further
Against D n T its really level
Against Burn I am up (although there is a massive disparity between game 1 (poor) and 2 (great)- I run chill in the board)
Against BUG delver and shardless bug I am very down
Against RUG delver I am down, although I have not tested much and it feels close
Against Grixis delver it seems level off little testing
Against Merfolk I am up considerably
I have avoided Elves and Painter, but have one match against Miracles- he nearly decked in turns having established his lock early.
Spiral Tide and especially ANT have been successfully chased out of my meta by a plethora of Chalice, and Pox decks, including Stax with its Trinispheres and Leylines. I am actually responsible in part for that, I play Stax and Parfait a lot, and often loan out Pox (with Trinispheres and Leylines) and Chalice decks like Merfolk and Thalia soldier Stompy.
I don't like Planeswalker versions of Stax- Bant creatures is fine, but the R/U Zarek versions have no way to protect the Zarek. I would avoid the hardlock frozen aether versions of mono-u. I have been speculating about Fevered Visions splashed into blue versions over Howling Mine.
The Stasis deck is very difficult to learn, rather like most prison decks.
How are you against reanimator, eldrazi, infect, and lands?
Have to sit down with the Eldrazi player, just not tested it, but to be honest if I keep the Thorn/Sphere cards off the table I would fancy my chances. Ensnare > Haste, Propaganda is a sod for them with Stasis down, and although Tabernacle is easily paid for by temples, again Stasis is an eventual wrath. Its disruption for my deck is beatable by brainstorm. If I can get a Stasis down when Zuran arrives it should be GG. It could just be too fast for us. IDK. Untapping pingers are obviously an issue with caverns, but it costs a fair bit and only untaps during....our UNTAP phase, which means that Stasis says "no".
Would not fancy Infect- they get to board in Krosan grip and they are a force/daze deck that has access to wastelands. I did a little testing of this match with an earlier version, it was not easy....
Lands....casting my mind back, they win via Punishing (slow) or Marit, who is ensnare-able but it is indestructible, so Tabernacle fails (there is no erratum to make it Sac), killing us with damage is hard as Propaganda is nasty under a Stasis. Stasis hurts them horribly, and one of us ends end up decked as they can lock out damage. If they scoop early they get weapons against us game 2, if they don't you win if you are careful. If you play Ensnare and chain of Vapor its fine, although all these matches need to be learnt...........
Been testing Fevered Visions against Grixis delver. Very, very impressed, but not as a substitute for Vise or Howling mine, though. You want to maximise chances of a t2 howler and I draw the limit at 6 actually 3 cc spells.
Certainly makes it feel more like Turbo Owling mine prison/bounce lists from way back when. I find it has taken the place of two copies of Ancestral Visions, fulfilling the draw role. Certainly improves the number of win cons in the deck without having to compromise draw or actually take up slots with more Vises.
Makes decking more viable too, despite us drawing first. Seems to help in the counterspell wars too, drawing first perhaps allowing a key spell to resolve like a Chain of Vapor on a big delve dude, and really accelerates the game.
I only included one Volcanic to cast them as I run fetches and 4 Forsakens, not been an issue yet.
Note on the decking front Chain of Vapor and Stifle on triggered Howling draws are significant if going down that route.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
More musings from the playtest table (sanctioned matches not being legal with SOI) .....
BUG shardless - I have found that since adding the maindeck fevered visions x2 the liklihood of abrupt decay/howling mine blowout decreases slightly, drawing first off visions gives me less card disadvantage at crucial times, meaning I am more likely to reach a desired board state, and not catch up in hand when it is too late. Mine obviously has the issue of feeding them first, with the mana ramp from DRS they can often get just that bit ahead. Stifles always have a target against this deck, and an early one on a fetch can also buy time to cast 3cc spells, and nerfing wasteland on Tabernacle can make all the difference.
More importantly- Monastery siege from the board in "pay an extra 2" mode is absolutely superb- when abrupt decays cost 4, hymns 4 their whole deck becomes easier to control, as their deck is just a removal machine. This makes Misidirection effects better as their removal takes longer to get working, we are more likely to have it. I have kept Stifle in- for land and cascade triggers into potential Decays rather than PWs. Speaking of......PWs are not so hot when you have 4 damage dealing cards in the deck in Visions and Vise. Neither is cascade into decays with a Siege down and no manner.
Because the deck has more must one more "must remove" spell in game 2 (extra B2B) and the 2 Sieges the BUG development is dramatically slowed when compared to game 1, meaning Submerge has been chaff when coming in- their board has been slower to develop. With less dead cards in hand (things like ensnare often in game 1) and more pseudo counters available (in misdirection/divert) the game two feels as if G2 might en up at > or =50%. Their boarding should be limited to golgari charm and maesltrom pulse upping to 2 or 3 copies.
Divert is especially strong vs Hymns and Abrupt decay.
I think 6 symmetrical extra draw effects + 2 AV is correct pre board, and decking is a realistic option with this configuration.
I never thought I would swap out Brainstorms, but bottom line is mono-ish U Stasis is an unusual deck, with many cards post Stasis not getting cast with mana. I will post my list tomorrow or the day after. I feel it is really getting there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Planeswalkers, or in this case planeswalker activations. Stifle can hit the cascade trigger or planeswalker activations. In this match I keep the stifles in to stop cascading into Abrupt decay or for an early fetch rather than Jace or Lilly activations.
I can post my list up later for you to trice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
board definites 2 monastery siege (s BUG) 4 chill (Burn, RU delver, goblins, painter) 1 divert (s BUG, RUG delver perhaps miracles, infect) 1 misdirection (miracles, infect) 1 back to basics (RUG, BUG, s BUG, Nic fit, D n T etc)- could be two of these 2 grafdigger's cage (reanimator, dredge, storm) 2 pithing needle (d n t, maverick, depths decks, affinity perhaps, painter any combo prison deck like parfait, miracles)
edit- am considering a board option of words of war, for miracles (1 more win con, and that match often ends up with decking) and mid range shardless bug/grixis delver (win con/prevents decking vs both, good board control for getting rid of lilly, drs etc), maybe for burn type matches. Its probably a bit clunky under the stasis, but against shardless they will take out the Stasis a lot. It could work. Needs testing, I have done none.
EDIT Should also say that whilst Ensnare is a great card against critter heavy decks, serving double duty as a way of returning islands to hand and as a tapper, it gets less useful against blue decks, as that becomes about the force/daze battles, and you can't afford the situational buy a turn cards so much. They are less likely to be under Stasis in the game, whereas creature decks that are non blue spend a larger chunk of the game under Stasis.
Brainstorm is less useful in all matches than you would think, and can be boarded out in some number to bring in higher impact board cards like Back tom Basics. We draw so much of our deck the "selection" element is less useful early to mid game, although it can protect hands v discard. Plus under Stasis it takes out a mana and lessens the window for chain of vapor tricks back to hand, either to stop a Howling self-decking or to bounce a Stasis/protect a permanent from Abrupt decay.
One thing I found is that it takes a while to learn the plays, and knowing when to drop Stasis is key, there is no golden rule, v some decks you need protection like propaganda, vs others you don't, some you can ride a single stasis all the way, others you can't. Learning key things to watch out for is key, eg SoTL in D n T is a real pain, we can't deal with them easily if they keep mother of runes in, so back to basics is a vital board card at keeping watelands tapped, to protect tabernacles, our one chance of a board wipe. A vapor snag eot on a sotl can be vital, so noting if mother of runes is tapped is also key. Its quite difficult to see things like that until you play the matches.
It can be difficult to find a Stasis, definitely, although the equally key card is probably the Howling Mine effect, as you noticed, mine is a Stasis deck but the Stasis is not that important- sometimes its a wrath with a Tabernacle in hand- dropped with no intention of keeping it up, at other times its a lock forever card, but the deck operates for a while as a Propaganda/bounce deck. If you divide the deck into stall cards, counters and cards to be cast under Stasis then it becomes pretty clear that an opening hand with no Stasis or Howling mine effect is fine on the play vs. a lot of decks provided you have Propaganda and protection to cast it.
On the Volcanic I have not yet had an issue casting FV, I try not to get Volcanic unless I need it so won't up the count as yet, although sometimes I try and tempt a Wasteland on it with Ensare in hand to bounce it. Land count- well given my moderately aggressive mulliganing and the way I play it I have found it works quite well, but you are right- it is low. Ensare's tap ability is very useful if you meet Mrs Mystic and her Mr. Batterskull mate. It also protects from 20/20 Marit Lages/sneaked Emrakuls etc. Ensnare's two lands bounce I have sometimes used with two lands down to bounce two islands to get a third mana. Often it is about the Island bounce for sure. Effectively the Island bounce is uncounterable, which is nice. I take two land hands with Howling Mine on the play, and two on the draw with some protection in. One landers with visions + brainstorm are ok on the play. Really though you just have to get used to the land count, I shaved one off to get down to where I am now and I am happier with it now- for now.....
I find with BUG that its the boarding out of a couple of Brainstorm and ensnares for the Misdirection, Siege and Back to Basic effects that radically changes game two.
White is an option for the board, absolutely, but those creatures are not- Tabernacle plus Stasis is a nonbo. For beating Storm I have two Stifles main, Grafidigger's side, Forces/Daze and not much else, but I have another weapon...we kicked all the Storm players out with a meta that is unfavourable.
I am not 100% focussed on beating shardless- I have plenty of other decks in the meta, I just want a better-than-never matchup.
A good gauntlet for me
D n T
Affinity -Tez
RUG d
Grixis d
shardless
Maverick
Burn
Merfolk
Eldrazi
Pox
Yeah I see. Not sure why you would not include Forsaken, I am happy to take a Forsaken/Island hand, or even Forsaken/Brainstorm hand on the play, depending on the rest. I sometimes take double Forsaken with a draw spell or Howling Mine in, again prior knowledge is vital. I will sometimes take those 1 landers, but it really depends on the hand and the prior knowledge.
Croisis' Catcombs is a very good call, and that suggestion is definitely worth looking at, especially as it can bounce a Forsaken.
I will try it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Have basically added one lair for ensnare no 3, upping land by 1. It won't play with the two Back to Basics from the board but no real hardship in that given the way the deck works.
Fevered Visions is the nuts, just what this version of the deck ordered. 2 Ancestral Vision seems about right, too.
There is a smaller version of Ensnare I am looking at too, but I think Ensnare is better. Don't think my version can be improved that much- it gets as respectable a BUG match as I had hoped for, esp post board, and it gets to be a modal deck alternating between decking, and Vise/Visions damage, playing half way between a soft-lock blue Prison deck and a traditional hardlock Stasis deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Which I don't. It is nice that the card exists, though, even if it does not make this list.
I have settled on my list now, I have had almost month off, due to playing and working on my Pox list, which felt a little out of date and needed some attention.
In Stasis terms
I went to 2 ensnare from 3 and then down to 1 (a reflection of the current blueness of my meta, and of the fact that I don't really fear batterskull as much now I have stifles x2 for SFM), and an extra Lair land plus an extra Fevered Visions (can't remember if I had it as 2 or 3 last time, probably had it at 2 but it is so, so good that I put it to 3), and have not really looked at changes beyond that- remember its paper MTG, so my opportunities to play the deck are limited to a couple of events a month and to times when I can get an opponent for an afternoon or evening.
I will hopefully get some reports up at some point over the next couple of months. Fevered visions could have been custom built for the deck.
Played a few Miracles matches after piloting another deck this week.
Impressed the Miracles player. They hate Stasis, and Fevered Visions resolved is a real pig for them. They have lots of dead cards and their removal costs 2/3, and their lock requires mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Why not adapt it to use derevi?
I would use a board Monastery Siege or two. BUG decks eat permanents, but Siege makes removal cost 4 or 5, which is huge. It also is useful against burn and other grindy BG-x decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Why not adapt it to use derevi?
I would use a board Monastery Siege or two. BUG decks eat permanents, but Siege makes removal cost 4 or 5, which is huge. It also is useful against burn and other grindy BG-x decks.
Good idea. I will add 2 Siege in the board. Beats just leaning on Divert/Misdirection.
I'm not sold on Derevi. It's functionally just a 2/3 vigilant flyer, occasionally untapping another guy or Island sometimes. But it involves using a 3rd color of mana (1 Tundra? more vulnerable manabase). And it dies to stuff. The whole point of TNN is that it dies to almost nothing and roadblocks most stuff. So on defense you're taking less incidental damage before and during Stasis and on offensive it's a faster clock. It lets you win even if you can't stick a Stasis.
Yeah, that makes sense. I have not tried Deveri as I run 0 critters, a turbo element (Fevered "accidentally built for Stasis" Visions /and Howling "hope they don't have decay in hand" Mines) and Tabernacles, which given the turbo element and usual blue draw/filtering tend to turn up most games. I know that he is popular in critter builds, hence I mentioned him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Well I played a small pod tonight.
My results were
1-1 v RU delver. I won the first in 40, lost the second in 3, although having set up the extra draws of Fevered Visions I drew 6 land in a row. Time on the round....
1-2 Vs affinity, from 1-0 up.
Beat it G1 easily enough, Tabernacle + Stasis + Vise and FV, with a propaganda down.
G2 was almost in the bag, had to go balls out for a Vise win with no turbo. He drew out of it via Pyroblast whilst rapidly dying to single figures under vise.
G3 He cast Pyro, REB x2, and Spell Pierce, out countering me.
Beat D n T 2-1.
Lost g1, perhaps I used a bounce spell badly early doors, but other than that had one of those annoying 5 card runs of land for the third time in the night.
G2 was easier, and got a scoop when his council's judgement was countered under a Turbo/forsaken/Stasis lock with 2 cities.
G3 was hard, and Back to Basics resolving with Propaganda won it, the winning blow being via FV and a Pith needle on SForge preventing batterskull coming down. Stasis was late to the party.
Am going to consider dropping Ancestral Visions x2 and going to 4 Fevered Visions.
Also may add some Spirit Guide type mana.
May fiddle with the board to see if I can support energy flux or march of the machines for that affinity match, either card potentially ruining d n t's day too and hurting the chalice decks round my way. If not, and I suspect not, then will simply play about to help me worry less about pyro, may try and squeeze a jace in..... I use Monastery siege for some matches like bug but it won't cut any mustard with Affinity, too slow.
After a bit of practice I can see that I do actually have a G2 issue with affinity, it can slip out of the lock with pyroblasts and can spell pierce, and whereas I have some measure of protection vs most aggro decks for when stasis slips, if it slips out I am instantly dead as typically it can swing with a ten power dude, meaning the Stasis had to have resolved and I must have had a Tabernacle down.
I have added two null rod to the board. Between those two and two Pithing needle it becomes much closer, especially as game one is heavily in my favour. Null rod is so nasty. It has tensions only with my Zuran, and of course can stop a counter lock etc.
I am considering an enlightened tutor and a tundra main (4 forsaken also produce white, and there are fetches obviously).
I have gone to the full 4 Fevered Visions, dropping Ancestral which just whiffs too much mid game. I have cut back vise to one, with 4 visions it should be enough. Back up to 3 chain of v too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Strangely enough I always thought that getting the list right for game one would be the issue, but it is not- its the second game where pyroblasts come into play more.
I use back to basics in the side too, to increase the number of stasis effects so e tutor really offers me a lot of options, esp as I use propaganda as a key piece to keep batterskulled vigilance things off my back and to slow down the opposition's critter based plays, and I use monastery siege in order to protect my permananents against grindy bug decks. E tutor helps increase their numbers too. At the moment I am testing just one E tutor.
In my area I do not have to worry about storm, which is not prevalent in a field where chalices, merfolk, death and taxes, bug and nic fit plus pox are often present, together with some combo eg infect, griffin etc. My only defence are forces vs storm, daze and 3 stifles main, but if it became big I could always use rule of law and tutor for it.
I do have to worry about critter and burn decks, so propaganda is an essential tool I cannot not play, even if it is sometimes dead.
Very useful indeed, many thanks.
I am trying to make stasis important but not the be all and end all for survival- essential to win by damage, but not essential to survive. This could be very useful for me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Not in my opinion.
Top Counterbalance is a great lock, and a Miracles mentor shell is ideal for it.
Two things mitigate against it- Stasis is not a deck to spread over a big mana curve.
Secondly it needs mana to use the top.
I must ask- why do you want to Stasis? If you are getting into Legacy then I would point out a couple of points about Stasis- the best versions of the deck are either based on a Stasis with land bounce critter base [likely bant], which means a heavy financial investment into Nobles, Trops and Tundras much of which is admittedly transferable to other decks, or will be old school style Mono-U turbo lists reminiscent of Norwegan stasis/Turbo of yesteryear, which will likely mean Tabernacles, Volcanics and critterless- an equally heavy investment, with Forces transferable but Tabernacles only transferable to one or two decks.
If you want a well-tuned list with counter balance locks then Miracles info is freely available and tuned by huge player numbers. Stasis players are rare as hen's teeth, and despite the recent printings of Fevered Visions, Derevi and unbanning of Vise, they are unlikely to significantly increase as the strategy is one of those strategies that takes a lot of effort to learn and punishes mistakes more than most, it also might have difficulty winning if it goes 1-0 down. That said if you love a deck building challenge and want a deck that is not already known then Stasis may be for you- there is a lot of potential now that Vise is unbanned, untap effects are tapped onto Planeswalkers and Fevered Visions is made for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I have been thinking that this thread could do with a mini-primer, would anyone here fancy co-writing one? The reason I suggest this as a joint operation is due to the fact that the deck basically divides into two Stasis approaches- one is the critter bounce method (bant), one is the turbo approach in blue-x, which can be hard lock or soft prison. I have played the latter two [to not much effect in the hardlock versions], but not the first.
Even if it was a relatively small primer- after all few people are into the deck- it might nab the odd newer player in who is put off by page 1. Since we have increased the number of potential damage based wincons in the latter (Fevered Visions and Vise), and have over the past few years gotten an increased number of critters that synergise with Stasis in the former, it seems reasonable to suggest that page one should at least point to this.
Unlike my other primers in Modern (I have two), there would not be a huge need for updates very often (one of mine is RW lockdown in deck creation, which has several variants and often places in SCG events- I am constantly updating it).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Well if you copy it across to me I can put something together on our behalf, perhaps. A pm cut and pasted could do the job.
I will certainly look to proxying the Bant Stasis list at some point over the next few months, my Legacy building projects are finished, almost. I do want to learn to play and tune an enchantress deck, but other than that not much else is on my horizon. I have put decks together like burn and eldrazi so that they can be loaned out, and to be honest they are not that hard to pilot or tune, and once they get loaned out other people put the work in so to speak.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I can give you my results with mono-u creatureless:
Against Maverick and most Stompy decks I am generally up.
Against affinity I am up further
Against D n T its really level
Against Burn I am up (although there is a massive disparity between game 1 (poor) and 2 (great)- I run chill in the board)
Against BUG delver and shardless bug I am very down
Against RUG delver I am down, although I have not tested much and it feels close
Against Grixis delver it seems level off little testing
Against Merfolk I am up considerably
I have avoided Elves and Painter, but have one match against Miracles- he nearly decked in turns having established his lock early.
Spiral Tide and especially ANT have been successfully chased out of my meta by a plethora of Chalice, and Pox decks, including Stax with its Trinispheres and Leylines. I am actually responsible in part for that, I play Stax and Parfait a lot, and often loan out Pox (with Trinispheres and Leylines) and Chalice decks like Merfolk and Thalia soldier Stompy.
I don't like Planeswalker versions of Stax- Bant creatures is fine, but the R/U Zarek versions have no way to protect the Zarek. I would avoid the hardlock frozen aether versions of mono-u. I have been speculating about Fevered Visions splashed into blue versions over Howling Mine.
The Stasis deck is very difficult to learn, rather like most prison decks.
How are you against reanimator, eldrazi, infect, and lands?
Would not fancy Infect- they get to board in Krosan grip and they are a force/daze deck that has access to wastelands. I did a little testing of this match with an earlier version, it was not easy....
Lands....casting my mind back, they win via Punishing (slow) or Marit, who is ensnare-able but it is indestructible, so Tabernacle fails (there is no erratum to make it Sac), killing us with damage is hard as Propaganda is nasty under a Stasis. Stasis hurts them horribly, and one of us ends end up decked as they can lock out damage. If they scoop early they get weapons against us game 2, if they don't you win if you are careful. If you play Ensnare and chain of Vapor its fine, although all these matches need to be learnt...........
Certainly makes it feel more like Turbo Owling mine prison/bounce lists from way back when. I find it has taken the place of two copies of Ancestral Visions, fulfilling the draw role. Certainly improves the number of win cons in the deck without having to compromise draw or actually take up slots with more Vises.
Makes decking more viable too, despite us drawing first. Seems to help in the counterspell wars too, drawing first perhaps allowing a key spell to resolve like a Chain of Vapor on a big delve dude, and really accelerates the game.
I only included one Volcanic to cast them as I run fetches and 4 Forsakens, not been an issue yet.
Note on the decking front Chain of Vapor and Stifle on triggered Howling draws are significant if going down that route.
BUG shardless - I have found that since adding the maindeck fevered visions x2 the liklihood of abrupt decay/howling mine blowout decreases slightly, drawing first off visions gives me less card disadvantage at crucial times, meaning I am more likely to reach a desired board state, and not catch up in hand when it is too late. Mine obviously has the issue of feeding them first, with the mana ramp from DRS they can often get just that bit ahead. Stifles always have a target against this deck, and an early one on a fetch can also buy time to cast 3cc spells, and nerfing wasteland on Tabernacle can make all the difference.
More importantly- Monastery siege from the board in "pay an extra 2" mode is absolutely superb- when abrupt decays cost 4, hymns 4 their whole deck becomes easier to control, as their deck is just a removal machine. This makes Misidirection effects better as their removal takes longer to get working, we are more likely to have it. I have kept Stifle in- for land and cascade triggers into potential Decays rather than PWs. Speaking of......PWs are not so hot when you have 4 damage dealing cards in the deck in Visions and Vise. Neither is cascade into decays with a Siege down and no manner.
Because the deck has more must one more "must remove" spell in game 2 (extra B2B) and the 2 Sieges the BUG development is dramatically slowed when compared to game 1, meaning Submerge has been chaff when coming in- their board has been slower to develop. With less dead cards in hand (things like ensnare often in game 1) and more pseudo counters available (in misdirection/divert) the game two feels as if G2 might en up at > or =50%. Their boarding should be limited to golgari charm and maesltrom pulse upping to 2 or 3 copies.
My board changes are- 2 ensnare (leaving 1), -2 brainstorm (leaving 2) , + 1 Back to Basics, -1 daze (leaving 3)
+ 2 Monastery siege + 1 Misdirection + 1 divert
Divert is especially strong vs Hymns and Abrupt decay.
I think 6 symmetrical extra draw effects + 2 AV is correct pre board, and decking is a realistic option with this configuration.
I never thought I would swap out Brainstorms, but bottom line is mono-ish U Stasis is an unusual deck, with many cards post Stasis not getting cast with mana. I will post my list tomorrow or the day after. I feel it is really getting there.
I can post my list up later for you to trice.
1 volcanic island
7 island
6 blue fetches
2 zuran orb
2 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
2 ancestral visions
2 black vise
4 brainstorm
3 chain of vapor
2 stifle
4 stasis
2 fevered visions
4 propaganda
3 ensnare
4 force of will
4 daze
board definites
2 monastery siege (s BUG)
4 chill (Burn, RU delver, goblins, painter)
1 divert (s BUG, RUG delver perhaps miracles, infect)
1 misdirection (miracles, infect)
1 back to basics (RUG, BUG, s BUG, Nic fit, D n T etc)- could be two of these
2 grafdigger's cage (reanimator, dredge, storm)
2 pithing needle (d n t, maverick, depths decks, affinity perhaps, painter any combo prison deck like parfait, miracles)
edit- am considering a board option of words of war, for miracles (1 more win con, and that match often ends up with decking) and mid range shardless bug/grixis delver (win con/prevents decking vs both, good board control for getting rid of lilly, drs etc), maybe for burn type matches. Its probably a bit clunky under the stasis, but against shardless they will take out the Stasis a lot. It could work. Needs testing, I have done none.
EDIT Should also say that whilst Ensnare is a great card against critter heavy decks, serving double duty as a way of returning islands to hand and as a tapper, it gets less useful against blue decks, as that becomes about the force/daze battles, and you can't afford the situational buy a turn cards so much. They are less likely to be under Stasis in the game, whereas creature decks that are non blue spend a larger chunk of the game under Stasis.
Brainstorm is less useful in all matches than you would think, and can be boarded out in some number to bring in higher impact board cards like Back tom Basics. We draw so much of our deck the "selection" element is less useful early to mid game, although it can protect hands v discard. Plus under Stasis it takes out a mana and lessens the window for chain of vapor tricks back to hand, either to stop a Howling self-decking or to bounce a Stasis/protect a permanent from Abrupt decay.
One thing I found is that it takes a while to learn the plays, and knowing when to drop Stasis is key, there is no golden rule, v some decks you need protection like propaganda, vs others you don't, some you can ride a single stasis all the way, others you can't. Learning key things to watch out for is key, eg SoTL in D n T is a real pain, we can't deal with them easily if they keep mother of runes in, so back to basics is a vital board card at keeping watelands tapped, to protect tabernacles, our one chance of a board wipe. A vapor snag eot on a sotl can be vital, so noting if mother of runes is tapped is also key. Its quite difficult to see things like that until you play the matches.
On the Volcanic I have not yet had an issue casting FV, I try not to get Volcanic unless I need it so won't up the count as yet, although sometimes I try and tempt a Wasteland on it with Ensare in hand to bounce it. Land count- well given my moderately aggressive mulliganing and the way I play it I have found it works quite well, but you are right- it is low. Ensare's tap ability is very useful if you meet Mrs Mystic and her Mr. Batterskull mate. It also protects from 20/20 Marit Lages/sneaked Emrakuls etc. Ensnare's two lands bounce I have sometimes used with two lands down to bounce two islands to get a third mana. Often it is about the Island bounce for sure. Effectively the Island bounce is uncounterable, which is nice. I take two land hands with Howling Mine on the play, and two on the draw with some protection in. One landers with visions + brainstorm are ok on the play. Really though you just have to get used to the land count, I shaved one off to get down to where I am now and I am happier with it now- for now.....
I find with BUG that its the boarding out of a couple of Brainstorm and ensnares for the Misdirection, Siege and Back to Basic effects that radically changes game two.
White is an option for the board, absolutely, but those creatures are not- Tabernacle plus Stasis is a nonbo. For beating Storm I have two Stifles main, Grafidigger's side, Forces/Daze and not much else, but I have another weapon...we kicked all the Storm players out with a meta that is unfavourable.
I am not 100% focussed on beating shardless- I have plenty of other decks in the meta, I just want a better-than-never matchup.
A good gauntlet for me
D n T
Affinity -Tez
RUG d
Grixis d
shardless
Maverick
Burn
Merfolk
Eldrazi
Pox
Croisis' Catcombs is a very good call, and that suggestion is definitely worth looking at, especially as it can bounce a Forsaken.
I will try it.
Fevered Visions is the nuts, just what this version of the deck ordered. 2 Ancestral Vision seems about right, too.
There is a smaller version of Ensnare I am looking at too, but I think Ensnare is better. Don't think my version can be improved that much- it gets as respectable a BUG match as I had hoped for, esp post board, and it gets to be a modal deck alternating between decking, and Vise/Visions damage, playing half way between a soft-lock blue Prison deck and a traditional hardlock Stasis deck.
I have settled on my list now, I have had almost month off, due to playing and working on my Pox list, which felt a little out of date and needed some attention.
In Stasis terms
I went to 2 ensnare from 3 and then down to 1 (a reflection of the current blueness of my meta, and of the fact that I don't really fear batterskull as much now I have stifles x2 for SFM), and an extra Lair land plus an extra Fevered Visions (can't remember if I had it as 2 or 3 last time, probably had it at 2 but it is so, so good that I put it to 3), and have not really looked at changes beyond that- remember its paper MTG, so my opportunities to play the deck are limited to a couple of events a month and to times when I can get an opponent for an afternoon or evening.
I will hopefully get some reports up at some point over the next couple of months. Fevered visions could have been custom built for the deck.
Impressed the Miracles player. They hate Stasis, and Fevered Visions resolved is a real pig for them. They have lots of dead cards and their removal costs 2/3, and their lock requires mana.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Shardless Agent
//Spells: 28
4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Stasis
2 Propaganda
1 Sylvan Library
1 Exploration
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tropical Island
4 Forsaken City
3 Island
2 Misdirection
2 Divert
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 magic card
I am wondering about TNN as a blocker to drop pre-stasis and then a win condition once you stall out and get redundant untaps in play.
I would use a board Monastery Siege or two. BUG decks eat permanents, but Siege makes removal cost 4 or 5, which is huge. It also is useful against burn and other grindy BG-x decks.
Good idea. I will add 2 Siege in the board. Beats just leaning on Divert/Misdirection.
I'm not sold on Derevi. It's functionally just a 2/3 vigilant flyer, occasionally untapping another guy or Island sometimes. But it involves using a 3rd color of mana (1 Tundra? more vulnerable manabase). And it dies to stuff. The whole point of TNN is that it dies to almost nothing and roadblocks most stuff. So on defense you're taking less incidental damage before and during Stasis and on offensive it's a faster clock. It lets you win even if you can't stick a Stasis.
My results were
1-1 v RU delver. I won the first in 40, lost the second in 3, although having set up the extra draws of Fevered Visions I drew 6 land in a row. Time on the round....
1-2 Vs affinity, from 1-0 up.
Beat it G1 easily enough, Tabernacle + Stasis + Vise and FV, with a propaganda down.
G2 was almost in the bag, had to go balls out for a Vise win with no turbo. He drew out of it via Pyroblast whilst rapidly dying to single figures under vise.
G3 He cast Pyro, REB x2, and Spell Pierce, out countering me.
Beat D n T 2-1.
Lost g1, perhaps I used a bounce spell badly early doors, but other than that had one of those annoying 5 card runs of land for the third time in the night.
G2 was easier, and got a scoop when his council's judgement was countered under a Turbo/forsaken/Stasis lock with 2 cities.
G3 was hard, and Back to Basics resolving with Propaganda won it, the winning blow being via FV and a Pith needle on SForge preventing batterskull coming down. Stasis was late to the party.
Am going to consider dropping Ancestral Visions x2 and going to 4 Fevered Visions.
Also may add some Spirit Guide type mana.
May fiddle with the board to see if I can support energy flux or march of the machines for that affinity match, either card potentially ruining d n t's day too and hurting the chalice decks round my way. If not, and I suspect not, then will simply play about to help me worry less about pyro, may try and squeeze a jace in..... I use Monastery siege for some matches like bug but it won't cut any mustard with Affinity, too slow.
I have added two null rod to the board. Between those two and two Pithing needle it becomes much closer, especially as game one is heavily in my favour. Null rod is so nasty. It has tensions only with my Zuran, and of course can stop a counter lock etc.
I am considering an enlightened tutor and a tundra main (4 forsaken also produce white, and there are fetches obviously).
I have gone to the full 4 Fevered Visions, dropping Ancestral which just whiffs too much mid game. I have cut back vise to one, with 4 visions it should be enough. Back up to 3 chain of v too.
I use back to basics in the side too, to increase the number of stasis effects so e tutor really offers me a lot of options, esp as I use propaganda as a key piece to keep batterskulled vigilance things off my back and to slow down the opposition's critter based plays, and I use monastery siege in order to protect my permananents against grindy bug decks. E tutor helps increase their numbers too. At the moment I am testing just one E tutor.
In my area I do not have to worry about storm, which is not prevalent in a field where chalices, merfolk, death and taxes, bug and nic fit plus pox are often present, together with some combo eg infect, griffin etc. My only defence are forces vs storm, daze and 3 stifles main, but if it became big I could always use rule of law and tutor for it.
I do have to worry about critter and burn decks, so propaganda is an essential tool I cannot not play, even if it is sometimes dead.
I am trying to make stasis important but not the be all and end all for survival- essential to win by damage, but not essential to survive. This could be very useful for me.
Top Counterbalance is a great lock, and a Miracles mentor shell is ideal for it.
Two things mitigate against it- Stasis is not a deck to spread over a big mana curve.
Secondly it needs mana to use the top.
I must ask- why do you want to Stasis? If you are getting into Legacy then I would point out a couple of points about Stasis- the best versions of the deck are either based on a Stasis with land bounce critter base [likely bant], which means a heavy financial investment into Nobles, Trops and Tundras much of which is admittedly transferable to other decks, or will be old school style Mono-U turbo lists reminiscent of Norwegan stasis/Turbo of yesteryear, which will likely mean Tabernacles, Volcanics and critterless- an equally heavy investment, with Forces transferable but Tabernacles only transferable to one or two decks.
If you want a well-tuned list with counter balance locks then Miracles info is freely available and tuned by huge player numbers. Stasis players are rare as hen's teeth, and despite the recent printings of Fevered Visions, Derevi and unbanning of Vise, they are unlikely to significantly increase as the strategy is one of those strategies that takes a lot of effort to learn and punishes mistakes more than most, it also might have difficulty winning if it goes 1-0 down. That said if you love a deck building challenge and want a deck that is not already known then Stasis may be for you- there is a lot of potential now that Vise is unbanned, untap effects are tapped onto Planeswalkers and Fevered Visions is made for it.
Even if it was a relatively small primer- after all few people are into the deck- it might nab the odd newer player in who is put off by page 1. Since we have increased the number of potential damage based wincons in the latter (Fevered Visions and Vise), and have over the past few years gotten an increased number of critters that synergise with Stasis in the former, it seems reasonable to suggest that page one should at least point to this.
Unlike my other primers in Modern (I have two), there would not be a huge need for updates very often (one of mine is RW lockdown in deck creation, which has several variants and often places in SCG events- I am constantly updating it).
I will certainly look to proxying the Bant Stasis list at some point over the next few months, my Legacy building projects are finished, almost. I do want to learn to play and tune an enchantress deck, but other than that not much else is on my horizon. I have put decks together like burn and eldrazi so that they can be loaned out, and to be honest they are not that hard to pilot or tune, and once they get loaned out other people put the work in so to speak.