I don't think I have posted my personal list for a while. I have posted previous iterations, sure, and I may have posted a list last time this was played at a local event a month ago (my deck, loaned out). i may not have.....
I can post if you wish, but it will have to wait till Thursday- work and draft Wednesday, and am @ Legacy now...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I've been testing extensively against tier decks with my latest posted list and even though it is not 100% optimized I literally have something like an 80% win rate against the field with most losses coming as the result of misplays or just grindy matches against bad matchups such as Death n Taxes or Lands.
The addition of Thalia 2.0, Fairgrounds Warden, Recruiter of the Guard, Sanctum Prelate, and Palace Jailer have really destroyed some of the obstacles that were in this deck's way in the past.
Fairgrounds Warden in particular is just insane as a 3 mana unconditional removal spell that can be a.) uncounterable b.) cheated into play for free c.) drawn by Enlistment Officer, and d.) actually attack and block as well.
Winter Orb + Thalia 2.0 is crazy good against alot of decks.
Recruiter is not really a 4-of because you lose tempo playing him but as a 2-of or even 3-of he can add much needed card selection.
I think this deck might actually be close to Tier 1 at this point, and I'd rather play this than Eldrazi.
** The key is this: before, this deck would wreck Storm and other combo decks, and post a good matchup against Miracles. But it would struggle against the BGx Delver/Tarmogoyf/Gurmag Angler decks on top of struggling against Lands and DnT. Now that Fairgrounds Warden and Palace Jailer have been printed, this deck wrecks Delver/Tarmogoyf/Gurmag Angler decks. The only remaining "bad" matchups are Lands and Death'n'Taxes, and D'n'T isn't as bad anymore now that you can play Recruiter->Revoker and Fairgrounds Warden/Palace Jailer for their problematic creatures. **
I like the synergies in your list. I definitely think it has potential. You'll have to write a tournament report once you have had a chance to play competitively.
Its quite difficult to remove D n Ts critters, because they use Mom to protect them from the targetted ability.
What I did find helped to vaying levels that match was
- karakas count
- suppression field (hits the port/wasteland/vial)
- new thalia
- tower of the magistrate (as part of the land count it gives their critters protection from artifacts, thus making their equipment drop off mid combat- they have real difficulty winning without the equipment, even if they get a pair of mommies their best critter, naked, is not stellar and not enough to race us)
- gustcloak savior (this works in that it specifically negates batterskulled blocks-yow withdraw the critter from combat, meaning no lifegain)
- charioteers- the 2/4 or more flying lifelink body can produce advantages when racing
- flyers in general- Esha is pretty strong, if their swords are out of the equation only a Momy and AN other get past it
-boarding in a jitte, although it sucks with suppression field
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Once you get Damping Matrix into play, it shuts down all of their Equipmement, Vials, Mother of Runes, and Stoneforge Mystics and Mangaras. That's pretty key post-board, but Revoker can do a good job as well.
Yep, matrix is nuts against them. My list is pretty decent against them, the flyers normally win it. I keep spatial contortion and have a flex slot, so i could run matrix.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
BTW Dude, there's no need for Oblivion Ring anymore with the new soldiers that were printed. At all. Yes, it sometimes will nab you a non-creature permanent, but those times are far outweighed by the number of times you'd rather have your 2W removal a.) uncounterable b.) draw-able by Enlistment Officer c.) able to attack and block and d.) cheated into play by Preeminent Captain.
I would never play any removal in this deck anymore that isn't Palace Jailer or Fairgrounds Warden. If you need anti-artifact or anti-enchantment options in the sideboard or even as a singleton (at most) MD, I'd play Leonin Relic-Warder and fetch him with Recruiter of the Guard.
Also:
- Suppression Field is a bad card. It's the biggest trap card in the MTG world. It looks so good, but it's only really effective if you play it turn 1 off a chrome mox. 90% of the time it will be a blank or nearly a blank form of card disadvantage for you.
- Dawnbringer Charioteers are awful. Do you really need lifelink that badly that you're going to pay 4 mana for a 2/4 flier when you can instead pay only 2 mana for a 2/3 flier in Kor Skyfisher?
BTW Dude, there's no need for Oblivion Ring anymore with the new soldiers that were printed. At all. Yes, it sometimes will nab you a non-creature permanent, but those times are far outweighed by the number of times you'd rather have your 2W removal a.) uncounterable b.) draw-able by Enlistment Officer c.) able to attack and block and d.) cheated into play by Preeminent Captain.
I would never play any removal in this deck anymore that isn't Palace Jailer or Fairgrounds Warden. If you need anti-artifact or anti-enchantment options in the sideboard or even as a singleton (at most) MD, I'd play Leonin Relic-Warder and fetch him with Recruiter of the Guard.
Also:
- Suppression Field is a bad card. It's the biggest trap card in the MTG world. It looks so good, but it's only really effective if you play it turn 1 off a chrome mox. 90% of the time it will be a blank or nearly a blank form of card disadvantage for you.
- Dawnbringer Charioteers are awful. Do you really need lifelink that badly that you're going to pay 4 mana for a 2/4 flier when you can instead pay only 2 mana for a 2/3 flier in Kor Skyfisher?
I have no idea about these creatures you are killing/removing, but when I play non-combo creature decks (i.e. not elves or painter type) I beat them, unless the creature deck get an equipment of some kind, pretty much without killing their dudes. I often beat D n T and to a lesser Maverick for the reason that I deal with their equipment and run S Field- they can't win by beating on the ground without equipment, and if you deal with that you win. Those decks in particular do not care what removal you have or if its uncounterable, because Mom hits t1. Rare decks like Affinity can get past me on the ground, because of protection from all colours, which can't be dealt with anyway by Soldiers. I rarely if ever hit creatures with O rings, perhaps you have a slew of Delvers, Eldrazi and Goyfs to hit with them? I do not, and the Jailers (which I do use too) don't often have viable targets (and the 3 mana dwarf would be especially bad here). I have two potential metas with some overlap, and in one I can sit there as much as I like with creature kill, but if I am facing a creature the odds are its a t2 Grisselbrand/Iona, T2 Enchantress or T1 Glistener Elf. Other than that its creatureless, plus D N T mentioned above and Burn, and those O rings look a lot better in that environment against Lilly, Jace et al. The other meta I rarely go to I have not played SS in, o ring would be poor because its abrupt decay heavy.
On your second point. Skyfisher and Charioteers are both pretty awful. But they fly, which is why they may be relevant and get inclusion. But I don't have that many matches where flying is relevant, and yes, I am specifically playing them over other flyers for the common burn matchup, which is very hard without lifelink. As I said I don't have that many critter decks about, I need lifelink way more than flying often and we have few options in the lifelink department for now. I don't need a t1 or 2 flyer at all, and I don't need one that set me back a land- I have a high top end as it is. So Skyfisher won't make my list any time soon, and if I don't run Charioteers I will have to run Aven Riftwatcher type cards- in short I need the life more than the flying, but in the slots I have having both is good.
I find suppression field works very well against most of the the decks I face whether early or late- remember I run 1 or 2 mana restriction effects in the board too. I would certainly rather run it than cost reducers in the 2 slot. We fill up on good CA cards that a late game one is not an issue, especially as my list is light on cost reduction and has more fat in.
I agree with MTG-Fan - Fairground Wardens and Palace Jailer completely change the deck. Let's make this deck truly as good as it can be.
Charioteers doesn't look like a great direction.
With that said, the flyers idea is reasonable. Kor Skyfisher is probably great. Are there other flyers to consider?
No they are not great, none of the potential flyers are great. Not one. Thalia is great, both of them in fact. Our flyer choices are...acceptable make do cards that do a job because the engine is stupidly strong and can tolerate these sub par dudes that fill holes against specific matches. I am concerned that you say "probably great"- that indicates you may not have actually tried the cards. That is fine but please make it clear if you have or not, so we know whether you are hypothesising or reporting.
Skyfisher works well with cost reducers, but I personally think reducers are a trap, red herrings. Either way what are you flying over is the question you need to ask.
Please remember that a lot of Legacy decks are creatureless, or when you see the creature its too late. Wardens don't offer anything much more than we had- we had humans that did the same thing, and solders that took critters out for a turn at the same cost, or even intrepid hero I saw once or twice. Warden is an upgrade, but not a massive leap. We rarely lost because of a problem creature. Palace Jailers are a bigger change, and yes, I use jailers, sure. But the ability to remove a creature can be very insignificant in this format, and improving the sorcery speed creature kill does nothing in huge numbers of matches.
As I explained above, "normal" burn (i.e. one that is not that soft to chalice and is well-built) beats this deck without lifelink/lifegain, and its a common entry level deck, so if you are not playing Charioteers you need the life somewhere or you are losing- Price of Progress/Fireblast/flame rift and self-Tomb damage mean that we are dead pretty quickly pretty often. So Charioteers do not look great, but they are strong against D n T and Burn (note that D N T's flyer don't kill 4 toughness). Those are two of the otherwise harder matches, and so I am happy to include them- and have lots of tournament experience with them. Against many decks they are mediocre mox fodder, but that is true of all the flyers, none of which disrupt like Thalia does or offer significant CA.
BTW Dude, there's no need for Oblivion Ring anymore with the new soldiers that were printed. At all. Yes, it sometimes will nab you a non-creature permanent, but those times are far outweighed by the number of times you'd rather have your 2W removal a.) uncounterable b.) draw-able by Enlistment Officer c.) able to attack and block and d.) cheated into play by Preeminent Captain.
I would never play any removal in this deck anymore that isn't Palace Jailer or Fairgrounds Warden. If you need anti-artifact or anti-enchantment options in the sideboard or even as a singleton (at most) MD, I'd play Leonin Relic-Warder and fetch him with Recruiter of the Guard.
Also:
- Suppression Field is a bad card. It's the biggest trap card in the MTG world. It looks so good, but it's only really effective if you play it turn 1 off a chrome mox. 90% of the time it will be a blank or nearly a blank form of card disadvantage for you.
- Dawnbringer Charioteers are awful. Do you really need lifelink that badly that you're going to pay 4 mana for a 2/4 flier when you can instead pay only 2 mana for a 2/3 flier in Kor Skyfisher?
I have no idea about these creatures you are killing/removing, but when I play non-combo creature decks (i.e. not elves or painter type) I beat them, unless the creature deck get an equipment of some kind, pretty much without killing their dudes. I often beat D n T and to a lesser Maverick for the reason that I deal with their equipment and run S Field- they can't win by beating on the ground without equipment, and if you deal with that you win. Those decks in particular do not care what removal you have or if its uncounterable, because Mom hits t1. Rare decks like Affinity can get past me on the ground, because of protection from all colours, which can't be dealt with anyway by Soldiers. I rarely if ever hit creatures with O rings, perhaps you have a slew of Delvers, Eldrazi and Goyfs to hit with them? I do not, and the Jailers (which I do use too) don't often have viable targets (and the 3 mana dwarf would be especially bad here). I have two potential metas with some overlap, and in one I can sit there as much as I like with creature kill, but if I am facing a creature the odds are its a t2 Grisselbrand/Iona, T2 Enchantress or T1 Glistener Elf. Other than that its creatureless, plus D N T mentioned above and Burn, and those O rings look a lot better in that environment against Lilly, Jace et al. The other meta I rarely go to I have not played SS in, o ring would be poor because its abrupt decay heavy.
Have you done any testing with this deck vs Delver variants and BGx decks that play Tarmogoyf and any Wx deck that plays Stoneforge Mystics??
This deck always had issues with fat Tarmogoyfs, Batterskulls, and early flipped Delvers. The inclusion of Fairgrounds Warden and Palace Jailer solves all of these issues by removing that one tough blocker, or stopping that early Delver from killing you.
On your second point. Skyfisher and Charioteers are both pretty awful. But they fly, which is why they may be relevant and get inclusion. But I don't have that many matches where flying is relevant, and yes, I am specifically playing them over other flyers for the common burn matchup, which is very hard without lifelink. As I said I don't have that many critter decks about, I need lifelink way more than flying often and we have few options in the lifelink department for now. I don't need a t1 or 2 flyer at all, and I don't need one that set me back a land- I have a high top end as it is. So Skyfisher won't make my list any time soon, and if I don't run Charioteers I will have to run Aven Riftwatcher type cards- in short I need the life more than the flying, but in the slots I have having both is good.
This game is all about tempo. Mana cost is HUGE. The difference between 1W and 2WW is like the GAP IN THE Grand Canyon.
I find suppression field works very well against most of the the decks I face whether early or late- remember I run 1 or 2 mana restriction effects in the board too. I would certainly rather run it than cost reducers in the 2 slot. We fill up on good CA cards that a late game one is not an issue, especially as my list is light on cost reduction and has more fat in.
You're not testing against quality decks and/or quality opponents then. In such a case, you'll find that Suppression Field has minimal effect later in the game.
In answer to your first point, not many, I have explained twice now there are very few delvers- as a general rule Europe as a whole is far less in love with them in general than the US or Japan. If you test my list you will find it does very well against grindier BUG based/goyf BG-X based lists, and not as well against faster ones. ON SFM I have been beating D N T for a while now too- because I play O rings and suppression fields, probably, and not relying on critter kill, but very few people play stoneblade, have not played one for well over two years, if I see SFM it will be D N T or Maverick.
I am well aware of the difference between the mana costs, but I have patiently explained my reasoning- I need lifelink, there are few options. Kor Skyfisher is rubbish early on, I don't need early flyers to fly over non existent creatures and I do need Thalias and their ilk. I want to get a Thalia down t1-2 or a Chalice down, or a SF down- i.e. disrupt them, not put down a 2/3 flyer with zero disruption. I may be tempted to take a Preeminent + big threat hand against a known opponent, but that is it- no disruption and I mulligan. By the time I am casting the Skyfisher I could cast a bigger one with more impact. I can see late on synergy with bouncing stuff with CIP abilities, but if I I had a hand against unknown player X without any Thalias, Chalice or S field it goes, because I have a fair chunk of combo in the meta I need the disruption, which is why I have D N T-esque hatebears in the board. I won't compare 4cc things with 2cc things, it is of little use, they fill different areas on the curve.
In answer to your second you need to consider the opposite scenario- that its not having an effect for you because you are not playing it right due to mulliganing badly to keep sub-optimal hands with no disruption that should be shipped, or that your list does not have enough higher end stuff to beat past the BG-X decks, which historically have proved not too much of a problem for me. Neither of us has anyway of knowing that. I am not going to get into how many players in our meta have done what and when, or dish out the old K ELO rankings or glass trophies to see who has a better meta, its a waste of both of our time-I play who is in front of me, as do you. It is possible that playstyle, mulligans and ho we view he deck has a huge impact, accounting for bg variations in results, but supposition about that and levels of opponents' play is surely futile.
Re: Charioteers & needing lifelink - Does 2 points of life per hit warrant an additional 1W mana? I don't think so. If you need incremental lifegain, you're not playing this deck correctly. The only matchup where incremental lifegain is really useful is against burn. Most other matchups hinge on developing your board presence and nullifying specific threats of your opponent - i.e. stopping their Delver, or stopping their Dark rituals, or stopping their Terminus. Charioteers is simply a bad creature that you should never be playing due to the high mana cost vs. its marginal utility.
Re: Suppression Field & mulliganing correctly - This is the HALLMARK of a bad card. You shouldn't have to mulligan aggresively to make use of a card. If you do, it's simply a bad card that shouldn't be played. Look at Chalice as a counterpoint - can you mulligan aggressively to make it more effective? Sure. But you don't *need* to mulligan to Chalice for it to be effective. You can draw into it on Turn 4 and cast it and lock out further 1 mana spells or even cast it for more and lock out 2cc and above. Suppression Field is almost completely useless after a certain point in the game, and often times that point is Turn 2-3 when they've already fetched their lands and don't mind paying 2 mana to activate their Jace or Liliana while you sit with -1 card advantage on the board and marginal tempo advantage.
Yes, absolutely, it is for burn, burn and more burn. I have been reasonably clear on that. Perhaps also for R/U delver, which is burn in disguise especially post board, although the only player who I have ever seen with that deck is probably me- and I lend it out only every now and then as Delvers of all sort are not that popular here. The thing is I know that I will play a burn deck in almost every event, because its an entry level easy to play deck, and everyone has a spare deck to loan to new players, and it is always burn or manaless dredge, and there are always new people joining in with that type of deck. It also helps in D n T, because it flies, but there are better flyers for 4 mana [although the high toughness helps. If you listed the different types of decks I have played this past year burn does not make a significant percentage of the total archetypes, but if you list the number of times I have played it or its R U delver cousin it works out as between 1 in 5 or 6 matches. So there it is really- its a bad card with a lifelink ability for one or one common match and its R/U cousin, and with flying for a couple more common matches- D N T or Maverick I play as often as burn, they have been very popular too, which suddenly means the card is useful in 35/40% of my matches. Our event are on average 8-20 players, more for win-a-dual, the large SCG scene it is not, and we get a lot of through traffic of students with us for a year or two. Remember, I am not trying to tell people to play it, merely saying why I am reluctantly playing it- please take that into consideration, along with the converse idea- that suggesting a card that works well in your meta against delver and midrange BG-X may not be that good in mine where my most common match ups are Burn, D N T, Infect, Miracles, Reanimator etc. I Hope it makes more sense now, especially in context of the deck's poor matchup against that particular strategy.
Incidentally, it gets frustrating for everyone that burn or similar is always there, but many of our players own multiple decks or buy into and of deck often - I own double figures worth of Established decks and a few in Developing for example, and many I just loan out and don't play, so the variety is always there- I think I have played against all the listed archetypes on Mtg Top 8 in the past two years bar three, the problem is many are not suitable for newer players, many of whom are looking for simplicity, so they tend to go for burn or slightly less likely, Merfolk. I have gone from an event where everyone had blue decks bar one to one where there was one in a room of twenty, within the space of a month, but the one constant- yep, burn.
On SF- remember I board into an Armageddon or two against most decks (I am always hovering between worb/geddon split and geddon x2), having SF and, say, Thalia II down post 'geddon is pretty rude.
I don't know, man. Let's build the BEST version of this deck. Not a version tricked out for your own personal meta (playing burn every event). That's super niche and not likely for the VAST MAJORITY of people. I've played in events across the country of all sizes and I've probably played burn in <10% of those events. Once you win the first couple rounds of a big event, the likelihood of facing burn gets even lower.
We want to build the most objectively powerful version of Soldier Stompy. So, I think that it's best to keep your "reluctantly playing it" cards with a note about that or something. It's more constructive if we keep those meta-specific calls OUT of the progress of this thread. If you believe that Charioteers is objectively powerful against a normal meta, instead of making a stretch to prove its worth against DNT or UR Delver, you could rationalize its place in the deck in general. But, based on your post, it doesn't sound like you feel it has merit unless you're playing Burn in every event.
You're cutting valuable cards to play Charioteers - the opportunity cost is real.
Back on topic:
Thalia Stompy is becoming more real. I'd like to know what people's impressions are of this deck vs. that one. Why play this deck over Thalia Stompy (8 Thalia, Eldrazi Displacer + Eldrazis, Mox Diamond)? Are we just jumping through hoops (Preeminent Captain) for our best play to be Captain of the Watch? Meanwhile, the Eldrazi deck gets to play Thought Knot Seer and Reality Smasher without a need to connect with a 2/2. What does the Soldier deck do that the Thalia Stompy deck does not?
My initial impression is that it's just Enlistment Officer and Recruiter of the Guard. The six card advantage cards seem to be the most useful differences. This comes at the cost of beef/clock. However, with the arrival of Palace Jailer, is card advantage a mitigated bonus for Soldier Stompy?
Why doesn't this deck play Umezawa's Jitte? Is the cost too high because of Chrome Mox discard?
I was asked for my list.
I explained why I included the cards I did when challenged. I am not going to post hypothetical lists, am I?
You should build the deck for your likely meta. I don't just build for a local meta or two, Europe is different from the US full stop, and an whatever objectively powerful build is there won't be the same here- power is relative to what you are going to face, and we will always have more low creature decks than you will.
The answer to your second question is suppression field.
These are the only decks I know of running the soldier/mox/sol/chalice shell in the past 5 years.
I don't know, man. Let's build the BEST version of this deck. Not a version tricked out for your own personal meta (playing burn every event). That's super niche and not likely for the VAST MAJORITY of people. I've played in events across the country of all sizes and I've probably played burn in <10% of those events. Once you win the first couple rounds of a big event, the likelihood of facing burn gets even lower.
We want to build the most objectively powerful version of Soldier Stompy. So, I think that it's best to keep your "reluctantly playing it" cards with a note about that or something. It's more constructive if we keep those meta-specific calls OUT of the progress of this thread. If you believe that Charioteers is objectively powerful against a normal meta, instead of making a stretch to prove its worth against DNT or UR Delver, you could rationalize its place in the deck in general. But, based on your post, it doesn't sound like you feel it has merit unless you're playing Burn in every event.
You're cutting valuable cards to play Charioteers - the opportunity cost is real.
Back on topic:
Thalia Stompy is becoming more real. I'd like to know what people's impressions are of this deck vs. that one. Why play this deck over Thalia Stompy (8 Thalia, Eldrazi Displacer + Eldrazis, Mox Diamond)? Are we just jumping through hoops (Preeminent Captain) for our best play to be Captain of the Watch? Meanwhile, the Eldrazi deck gets to play Thought Knot Seer and Reality Smasher without a need to connect with a 2/2. What does the Soldier deck do that the Thalia Stompy deck does not?
My initial impression is that it's just Enlistment Officer and Recruiter of the Guard. The six card advantage cards seem to be the most useful differences. This comes at the cost of beef/clock. However, with the arrival of Palace Jailer, is card advantage a mitigated bonus for Soldier Stompy?
Why doesn't this deck play Umezawa's Jitte? Is the cost too high because of Chrome Mox discard?
I've tried the Thalia + eldrazi deck and it might be objectively more powerful than this one, however, there are a few things that Soldiers have going for them over that deck:
- Preeminent Captain is more powerful than any single Eldrazi. The tempo advantage you get from simply attacking with Captain is greater than almost anything else in Legacy. And now that Palace Jailer and Fairgrounds Warden have been printed, you no longer have to worry about fat blockers stopping you from attacking with this guy quite as often as you did in the past.
- Chrome Mox is better than Mox Diamond in this type of deck that lacks land recursion (such as Life from the Loam). Chrome Mox is actually even better than Lotus Petal or Simian Spirit Guide (which the other Eldrazi lists play). Chrome Mox is perfectly suited for this deck because the 4 Enlistment Officers often allow you to recoup the card disadvantage incurred by playing Chrome Mox. This deck can obviously play Chrome Mox due to the high white card count whereas Eldrazi and even Eldrazi+Thalias cannot play them quite as easily due to too many "colorless" cards.
- Enlistment Officer is a great source of raw card advantage that neither Eldrazi+Thalias nor straight Eldrazi has. One of the problems I ran into playing Eldrazi lists was that they would "run out of gas" often, so that if you didn't develop a winning board state early in the game (even though the deck was good at doing so), you would often lose the late game to decks that could generate card advantage. With Enlistment Officer, Soldiers has the ability to a.) come back from sweepers and b.) win the late-game card advantage race.
- Eldrazi+Thalias can play both Palace Jailer and Fairgrounds Warden, but Soldiers has the ability to make them more consistently uncounterable, and cheat them into play for free with Preeminent Captain, *and* draw them with Enlistment Officer or fetch them with Recruiter of the Guard. I like having access to spot removal whenever I need it, and Soldiers gives you access to these guys more readily than any other deck.
Now, the reasons I'd play Eldrazi+Thalias over Soldiers come down to two things basically:
- Thought-Knot Seer is incredibly good
- Eldrazi Displacer is situationally good
You can't really find a corollary for Soldiers with the first point, but I can give up playing Displacer more easily now that I have access to Fairgrounds Warden and Palace Jailer.
You have said Suppression Field is bad unless on turn 1. I disagree, most decks in Legacy use activated abilities, and Suppression Field heavily slows most decks, especially any deck running fetchlands. On turn 3 or 4, dropping a Suppression Field can still nix a Sensei's Devining Top, mess with Planeswalkers, and prevent them from playing Fetching. It's great vs sooo many cards!
Just in case you forgot, here are some cards it hoses from he best decks in the format:
Lands: Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Maze of Ith, Thespian Stage, Fetchlands D&T: Aether Vial, Stoneforge Mystic, All Equipment, Mother of Runes, Karakas Miracles: Fetchlands, Sensei's Devining Top, Jace, the Money Snatcher
Tax effects are better when stacked, and since we have two Thalias. That card has performed so well for me, especially in conjunction with the Thalias.
I haven't played the deck with the new Fairgrounds Warden, but I think that card is better than Palace Jailer because it is much safer to play, plus easier to cast and costs less. Honestly, I think this deck could get away with running 4 Thought-Knot Seer as the only non-soldier, but I could be wrong.
I will test your list and see if I can replace anything, it's looks basically the same as what I would play, but from my testing, Winter Orb is not made for this deck. We can't play it early because then we can't cast anything. I'd definitely play Suppression Field over Winter Orb.
The other card I will probably replace is Captain of the Watch because it's just too expensive and a win-more card. I'll probably replace it with a couple more Daru Warchief's. Hero of Bladehold is probably better than CotW as well. Unfortunately, it's not great with Preeminent Captain, because you don't get the tokens or the battle cry trigger when you sneak it into play with Captain. But it's an extremely powerful card nonetheless.
Also, since Flyers have been mentioned as having their benefits, the new Soldier Aerial Responder seems better than any of the flyers I've seen mentioned except Commander Eesha perhaps.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
@rendroc - I like S field too, and those decks I listed above swing that way as well.
With Thalia the lock is strong with SF down evn if S F comes down t 2/3/4 against a lot of decks.
Brimaz and HOB are fine cards in their own right, and could easily take their place in this deck over a COTW type card.
I like COTW because he is the fastest clock we have off the preminent, and if he resolves before cards like Humility (common in these parts) then the extra numbers work, but mainly he forces the issue against Miracles and allows go wide wins against Nic fit style decks, I don't see his place as sacrosanct though.
I love the fact that you think Eesha is strong, I have been an advocate for a while, I find myself defending his inclusion more than the other flyers, people normally doubt him the most. Responder looks like a much better "general" flying card- it is boltable without a pumper on the table and the relative lack of toughness might make it not as good against burn and D N T, but as a general in a vacuum flyer it seems to do what is required and is much better placed on the curve.
This non-soldier more hate-bear themed deck seemed great to me, so I edited it and included newer cards as this deck was constructed before Sanctum Prelate and Thalia 2.0 existed. This deck is actually very good! I made a new thread about it. Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter are extremely powerful cards and stack with the other Tax effects.
Here's my thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/757559-hate-bear-stompy
P.S. in my last post I forgot to mention Gustcloack Savior which I think is the best flyer; it's a big body that combos well with P-Cap and makes combat so much more advantageous.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Yes, GS is also good against the two SFM decks that run batterskull- no lifegain on blocking for them. The toughness also beats the other flyers in the format outside of reanimation decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Also, this deck is not yet tier 1, but it's getting there. I've been working on hard on it and it's getting better and better Currently I do not have a good matchup vs Shardless BUG. Although my opponents keep getting lucky and drawing their single Toxic Deluge which wrecks me. I think Mirran Crusader should be included in the list, it is just very good in this format, and we can fetch it with Recruiter. Dodges a lot of removal and most creature threats are green or black; Goyf, Shardless Agent, Nimble Mongoose, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Bob, Baleful Strix, and that big 5/5 black delve guy.
EDIT: And I didn't realize in my previous post that Hero of Bladehold is not a Soldier, so I'm not sure I would include it in a soldier deck.
I think the Hate-Bear Stompy deck might just be better, even though it's weaker to early counter spells with no Cavern of Souls. It has so much hate, decks just can't deal it. I will keep testing both.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
HOB still makes soldiers and as a human probably gets the second cavern of souls set to it to make it uncounterable (edit- every now and then). I mentioned Brimaz because he is a soldier mini-version of HOB.
COTW is probably better against shardless, last time I played shardless with this deck was well over two years ago, prior to all the updates, and if I did not fly over the last few damage was always hard without COTW. I used Jotun Grunts at the time, which shrank goyf. I don't think they ran Tasigur back then. First strike did a lot I recall.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I'm having issues with Delver decks, Delver Pyromancer especially. Solutions would be appreciated. Holy Light or Ghostly Prison and Ratchet Bomb are the best options I can think of. Which do you think is the best? I think Prison might just be too narrow, as I can only see it being especially good vs Pyromancer, although IT IS great in conjunction with Winter Orb.
As much as I don't like Dawnbringer Charioteers, I feel like it would be nice to have lifeline in certain matchups. Also it survives bolt, and can block Delver and Mongoose without dying. Still dies to Dismember.
So I've found Hokori, Dust Drinker to be a great card, and right now I'm not sure how many I want in the deck. For all those people that want to run Winter Orb, this is the card for you. I have 1 mainboard that can be fetched with Recruiter, and I think I might try to fit 1 or 2 more in the sideboard. Get ahead on board, and then throw this guy down. It's insane if you already have a Captain out. It's nice that we have Chrome Mox to untap.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I can post if you wish, but it will have to wait till Thursday- work and draft Wednesday, and am @ Legacy now...
I've been testing extensively against tier decks with my latest posted list and even though it is not 100% optimized I literally have something like an 80% win rate against the field with most losses coming as the result of misplays or just grindy matches against bad matchups such as Death n Taxes or Lands.
The addition of Thalia 2.0, Fairgrounds Warden, Recruiter of the Guard, Sanctum Prelate, and Palace Jailer have really destroyed some of the obstacles that were in this deck's way in the past.
Fairgrounds Warden in particular is just insane as a 3 mana unconditional removal spell that can be a.) uncounterable b.) cheated into play for free c.) drawn by Enlistment Officer, and d.) actually attack and block as well.
Winter Orb + Thalia 2.0 is crazy good against alot of decks.
Recruiter is not really a 4-of because you lose tempo playing him but as a 2-of or even 3-of he can add much needed card selection.
I think this deck might actually be close to Tier 1 at this point, and I'd rather play this than Eldrazi.
** The key is this: before, this deck would wreck Storm and other combo decks, and post a good matchup against Miracles. But it would struggle against the BGx Delver/Tarmogoyf/Gurmag Angler decks on top of struggling against Lands and DnT. Now that Fairgrounds Warden and Palace Jailer have been printed, this deck wrecks Delver/Tarmogoyf/Gurmag Angler decks. The only remaining "bad" matchups are Lands and Death'n'Taxes, and D'n'T isn't as bad anymore now that you can play Recruiter->Revoker and Fairgrounds Warden/Palace Jailer for their problematic creatures. **
Here is my list:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Winter Orb
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Fairgrounds Warden
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Captain of the Watch
3 Daru Warchief
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Kor Skyfisher
1 Palace Jailer
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Damping Matrix
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Rest in Peace
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Palace Jailer
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
What I did find helped to vaying levels that match was
- karakas count
- suppression field (hits the port/wasteland/vial)
- new thalia
- tower of the magistrate (as part of the land count it gives their critters protection from artifacts, thus making their equipment drop off mid combat- they have real difficulty winning without the equipment, even if they get a pair of mommies their best critter, naked, is not stellar and not enough to race us)
- gustcloak savior (this works in that it specifically negates batterskulled blocks-yow withdraw the critter from combat, meaning no lifegain)
- charioteers- the 2/4 or more flying lifelink body can produce advantages when racing
- flyers in general- Esha is pretty strong, if their swords are out of the equation only a Momy and AN other get past it
-boarding in a jitte, although it sucks with suppression field
8 plains
1 eiganjo castle
4 ancient tomb
2 karakas
1 tower of the magistrate
4 cavern of souls
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 thalia heretic cathar
2 field marshall (one could be cut)
4 preeminent captain
4 enlistment officer
1 commander eesha (!)
2 palace jailer (could be replaced by the new dwarf- maybe a 1/1 split)
1 gustcloak savior
3 captain of the watch
2 oblivion ring
4 chalice of the void
3 suppression field
side
2 spirit of the labyrinth (obvious)
1 aegis of the gods (could be a second mana rstriction spell, eg orb/geddon, it does help the burn match though)
2 phyrexian revoker (always good in the 75, comes in against a lot, could be a third in the flex slot)
1 spatial contortion (for mommy protected critters)
2 rest in peace (obvious)
1 aethersworn canonist (obvious)
1 armageddon (or winter orb, slightly prefer 'geddon)
1 umezawa's jitte
1 dawnbringer charioteers (for burn decks and maverick, d n t, anything where the ground clogs up)
1 flexible slot
2 containment priest (can come in against d n t, does not like preeminent though so its more about beating natural order and show and tell plus reanimation)
The Eiganjo activation, often like Tower and Karakas is a bonus, nothing more, so I am happy playing SField main.
I would never play any removal in this deck anymore that isn't Palace Jailer or Fairgrounds Warden. If you need anti-artifact or anti-enchantment options in the sideboard or even as a singleton (at most) MD, I'd play Leonin Relic-Warder and fetch him with Recruiter of the Guard.
Also:
- Suppression Field is a bad card. It's the biggest trap card in the MTG world. It looks so good, but it's only really effective if you play it turn 1 off a chrome mox. 90% of the time it will be a blank or nearly a blank form of card disadvantage for you.
- Dawnbringer Charioteers are awful. Do you really need lifelink that badly that you're going to pay 4 mana for a 2/4 flier when you can instead pay only 2 mana for a 2/3 flier in Kor Skyfisher?
Charioteers doesn't look like a great direction.
With that said, the flyers idea is reasonable. Kor Skyfisher is probably great. Are there other flyers to consider?
I have no idea about these creatures you are killing/removing, but when I play non-combo creature decks (i.e. not elves or painter type) I beat them, unless the creature deck get an equipment of some kind, pretty much without killing their dudes. I often beat D n T and to a lesser Maverick for the reason that I deal with their equipment and run S Field- they can't win by beating on the ground without equipment, and if you deal with that you win. Those decks in particular do not care what removal you have or if its uncounterable, because Mom hits t1. Rare decks like Affinity can get past me on the ground, because of protection from all colours, which can't be dealt with anyway by Soldiers. I rarely if ever hit creatures with O rings, perhaps you have a slew of Delvers, Eldrazi and Goyfs to hit with them? I do not, and the Jailers (which I do use too) don't often have viable targets (and the 3 mana dwarf would be especially bad here). I have two potential metas with some overlap, and in one I can sit there as much as I like with creature kill, but if I am facing a creature the odds are its a t2 Grisselbrand/Iona, T2 Enchantress or T1 Glistener Elf. Other than that its creatureless, plus D N T mentioned above and Burn, and those O rings look a lot better in that environment against Lilly, Jace et al. The other meta I rarely go to I have not played SS in, o ring would be poor because its abrupt decay heavy.
On your second point. Skyfisher and Charioteers are both pretty awful. But they fly, which is why they may be relevant and get inclusion. But I don't have that many matches where flying is relevant, and yes, I am specifically playing them over other flyers for the common burn matchup, which is very hard without lifelink. As I said I don't have that many critter decks about, I need lifelink way more than flying often and we have few options in the lifelink department for now. I don't need a t1 or 2 flyer at all, and I don't need one that set me back a land- I have a high top end as it is. So Skyfisher won't make my list any time soon, and if I don't run Charioteers I will have to run Aven Riftwatcher type cards- in short I need the life more than the flying, but in the slots I have having both is good.
I find suppression field works very well against most of the the decks I face whether early or late- remember I run 1 or 2 mana restriction effects in the board too. I would certainly rather run it than cost reducers in the 2 slot. We fill up on good CA cards that a late game one is not an issue, especially as my list is light on cost reduction and has more fat in.
No they are not great, none of the potential flyers are great. Not one. Thalia is great, both of them in fact. Our flyer choices are...acceptable make do cards that do a job because the engine is stupidly strong and can tolerate these sub par dudes that fill holes against specific matches. I am concerned that you say "probably great"- that indicates you may not have actually tried the cards. That is fine but please make it clear if you have or not, so we know whether you are hypothesising or reporting.
Skyfisher works well with cost reducers, but I personally think reducers are a trap, red herrings. Either way what are you flying over is the question you need to ask.
Please remember that a lot of Legacy decks are creatureless, or when you see the creature its too late. Wardens don't offer anything much more than we had- we had humans that did the same thing, and solders that took critters out for a turn at the same cost, or even intrepid hero I saw once or twice. Warden is an upgrade, but not a massive leap. We rarely lost because of a problem creature. Palace Jailers are a bigger change, and yes, I use jailers, sure. But the ability to remove a creature can be very insignificant in this format, and improving the sorcery speed creature kill does nothing in huge numbers of matches.
As I explained above, "normal" burn (i.e. one that is not that soft to chalice and is well-built) beats this deck without lifelink/lifegain, and its a common entry level deck, so if you are not playing Charioteers you need the life somewhere or you are losing- Price of Progress/Fireblast/flame rift and self-Tomb damage mean that we are dead pretty quickly pretty often. So Charioteers do not look great, but they are strong against D n T and Burn (note that D N T's flyer don't kill 4 toughness). Those are two of the otherwise harder matches, and so I am happy to include them- and have lots of tournament experience with them. Against many decks they are mediocre mox fodder, but that is true of all the flyers, none of which disrupt like Thalia does or offer significant CA.
Have you done any testing with this deck vs Delver variants and BGx decks that play Tarmogoyf and any Wx deck that plays Stoneforge Mystics??
This deck always had issues with fat Tarmogoyfs, Batterskulls, and early flipped Delvers. The inclusion of Fairgrounds Warden and Palace Jailer solves all of these issues by removing that one tough blocker, or stopping that early Delver from killing you.
This game is all about tempo. Mana cost is HUGE. The difference between 1W and 2WW is like the GAP IN THE Grand Canyon.
You're not testing against quality decks and/or quality opponents then. In such a case, you'll find that Suppression Field has minimal effect later in the game.
I am well aware of the difference between the mana costs, but I have patiently explained my reasoning- I need lifelink, there are few options. Kor Skyfisher is rubbish early on, I don't need early flyers to fly over non existent creatures and I do need Thalias and their ilk. I want to get a Thalia down t1-2 or a Chalice down, or a SF down- i.e. disrupt them, not put down a 2/3 flyer with zero disruption. I may be tempted to take a Preeminent + big threat hand against a known opponent, but that is it- no disruption and I mulligan. By the time I am casting the Skyfisher I could cast a bigger one with more impact. I can see late on synergy with bouncing stuff with CIP abilities, but if I I had a hand against unknown player X without any Thalias, Chalice or S field it goes, because I have a fair chunk of combo in the meta I need the disruption, which is why I have D N T-esque hatebears in the board. I won't compare 4cc things with 2cc things, it is of little use, they fill different areas on the curve.
In answer to your second you need to consider the opposite scenario- that its not having an effect for you because you are not playing it right due to mulliganing badly to keep sub-optimal hands with no disruption that should be shipped, or that your list does not have enough higher end stuff to beat past the BG-X decks, which historically have proved not too much of a problem for me. Neither of us has anyway of knowing that. I am not going to get into how many players in our meta have done what and when, or dish out the old K ELO rankings or glass trophies to see who has a better meta, its a waste of both of our time-I play who is in front of me, as do you. It is possible that playstyle, mulligans and ho we view he deck has a huge impact, accounting for bg variations in results, but supposition about that and levels of opponents' play is surely futile.
Re: Suppression Field & mulliganing correctly - This is the HALLMARK of a bad card. You shouldn't have to mulligan aggresively to make use of a card. If you do, it's simply a bad card that shouldn't be played. Look at Chalice as a counterpoint - can you mulligan aggressively to make it more effective? Sure. But you don't *need* to mulligan to Chalice for it to be effective. You can draw into it on Turn 4 and cast it and lock out further 1 mana spells or even cast it for more and lock out 2cc and above. Suppression Field is almost completely useless after a certain point in the game, and often times that point is Turn 2-3 when they've already fetched their lands and don't mind paying 2 mana to activate their Jace or Liliana while you sit with -1 card advantage on the board and marginal tempo advantage.
Incidentally, it gets frustrating for everyone that burn or similar is always there, but many of our players own multiple decks or buy into and of deck often - I own double figures worth of Established decks and a few in Developing for example, and many I just loan out and don't play, so the variety is always there- I think I have played against all the listed archetypes on Mtg Top 8 in the past two years bar three, the problem is many are not suitable for newer players, many of whom are looking for simplicity, so they tend to go for burn or slightly less likely, Merfolk. I have gone from an event where everyone had blue decks bar one to one where there was one in a room of twenty, within the space of a month, but the one constant- yep, burn.
On SF- remember I board into an Armageddon or two against most decks (I am always hovering between worb/geddon split and geddon x2), having SF and, say, Thalia II down post 'geddon is pretty rude.
We want to build the most objectively powerful version of Soldier Stompy. So, I think that it's best to keep your "reluctantly playing it" cards with a note about that or something. It's more constructive if we keep those meta-specific calls OUT of the progress of this thread. If you believe that Charioteers is objectively powerful against a normal meta, instead of making a stretch to prove its worth against DNT or UR Delver, you could rationalize its place in the deck in general. But, based on your post, it doesn't sound like you feel it has merit unless you're playing Burn in every event.
You're cutting valuable cards to play Charioteers - the opportunity cost is real.
Back on topic:
I explained why I included the cards I did when challenged. I am not going to post hypothetical lists, am I?
You should build the deck for your likely meta. I don't just build for a local meta or two, Europe is different from the US full stop, and an whatever objectively powerful build is there won't be the same here- power is relative to what you are going to face, and we will always have more low creature decks than you will.
The answer to your second question is suppression field.
These are the only decks I know of running the soldier/mox/sol/chalice shell in the past 5 years.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13150&d=276997&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8487&d=248704&f=LE
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=3122&d=219617&f=LE
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/90053
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/9376
and this which is a stompy/ww deck without soldiers
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/20990
All use 4 S Field (which MTG Fan thinks is wrong, see above)
The only listed deck without suppression field is here
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/9379
SF is an obvious nonbo with Jitte. N.B. those decks have some measure Jitte action in the board, as do I.
I've tried the Thalia + eldrazi deck and it might be objectively more powerful than this one, however, there are a few things that Soldiers have going for them over that deck:
- Preeminent Captain is more powerful than any single Eldrazi. The tempo advantage you get from simply attacking with Captain is greater than almost anything else in Legacy. And now that Palace Jailer and Fairgrounds Warden have been printed, you no longer have to worry about fat blockers stopping you from attacking with this guy quite as often as you did in the past.
- Chrome Mox is better than Mox Diamond in this type of deck that lacks land recursion (such as Life from the Loam). Chrome Mox is actually even better than Lotus Petal or Simian Spirit Guide (which the other Eldrazi lists play). Chrome Mox is perfectly suited for this deck because the 4 Enlistment Officers often allow you to recoup the card disadvantage incurred by playing Chrome Mox. This deck can obviously play Chrome Mox due to the high white card count whereas Eldrazi and even Eldrazi+Thalias cannot play them quite as easily due to too many "colorless" cards.
- Enlistment Officer is a great source of raw card advantage that neither Eldrazi+Thalias nor straight Eldrazi has. One of the problems I ran into playing Eldrazi lists was that they would "run out of gas" often, so that if you didn't develop a winning board state early in the game (even though the deck was good at doing so), you would often lose the late game to decks that could generate card advantage. With Enlistment Officer, Soldiers has the ability to a.) come back from sweepers and b.) win the late-game card advantage race.
- Eldrazi+Thalias can play both Palace Jailer and Fairgrounds Warden, but Soldiers has the ability to make them more consistently uncounterable, and cheat them into play for free with Preeminent Captain, *and* draw them with Enlistment Officer or fetch them with Recruiter of the Guard. I like having access to spot removal whenever I need it, and Soldiers gives you access to these guys more readily than any other deck.
Now, the reasons I'd play Eldrazi+Thalias over Soldiers come down to two things basically:
- Thought-Knot Seer is incredibly good
- Eldrazi Displacer is situationally good
You can't really find a corollary for Soldiers with the first point, but I can give up playing Displacer more easily now that I have access to Fairgrounds Warden and Palace Jailer.
You have said Suppression Field is bad unless on turn 1. I disagree, most decks in Legacy use activated abilities, and Suppression Field heavily slows most decks, especially any deck running fetchlands. On turn 3 or 4, dropping a Suppression Field can still nix a Sensei's Devining Top, mess with Planeswalkers, and prevent them from playing Fetching. It's great vs sooo many cards!
Just in case you forgot, here are some cards it hoses from he best decks in the format:
Lands: Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Maze of Ith, Thespian Stage, Fetchlands
D&T: Aether Vial, Stoneforge Mystic, All Equipment, Mother of Runes, Karakas
Miracles: Fetchlands, Sensei's Devining Top, Jace, the Money Snatcher
Tax effects are better when stacked, and since we have two Thalias. That card has performed so well for me, especially in conjunction with the Thalias.
I haven't played the deck with the new Fairgrounds Warden, but I think that card is better than Palace Jailer because it is much safer to play, plus easier to cast and costs less. Honestly, I think this deck could get away with running 4 Thought-Knot Seer as the only non-soldier, but I could be wrong.
I will test your list and see if I can replace anything, it's looks basically the same as what I would play, but from my testing, Winter Orb is not made for this deck. We can't play it early because then we can't cast anything. I'd definitely play Suppression Field over Winter Orb.
The other card I will probably replace is Captain of the Watch because it's just too expensive and a win-more card. I'll probably replace it with a couple more Daru Warchief's. Hero of Bladehold is probably better than CotW as well. Unfortunately, it's not great with Preeminent Captain, because you don't get the tokens or the battle cry trigger when you sneak it into play with Captain. But it's an extremely powerful card nonetheless.
Also, since Flyers have been mentioned as having their benefits, the new Soldier Aerial Responder seems better than any of the flyers I've seen mentioned except Commander Eesha perhaps.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
With Thalia the lock is strong with SF down evn if S F comes down t 2/3/4 against a lot of decks.
Brimaz and HOB are fine cards in their own right, and could easily take their place in this deck over a COTW type card.
I like COTW because he is the fastest clock we have off the preminent, and if he resolves before cards like Humility (common in these parts) then the extra numbers work, but mainly he forces the issue against Miracles and allows go wide wins against Nic fit style decks, I don't see his place as sacrosanct though.
I love the fact that you think Eesha is strong, I have been an advocate for a while, I find myself defending his inclusion more than the other flyers, people normally doubt him the most. Responder looks like a much better "general" flying card- it is boltable without a pumper on the table and the relative lack of toughness might make it not as good against burn and D N T, but as a general in a vacuum flyer it seems to do what is required and is much better placed on the curve.
I'm glad you posted those deck lists from online.
It should be noted that a bunch of the ones that did well were running Hero of Bladehold and Aven Mindcensor.
Soldier Deck: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8487&d=248704&f=LE
Hate-bear Stompy: http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/20990
This non-soldier more hate-bear themed deck seemed great to me, so I edited it and included newer cards as this deck was constructed before Sanctum Prelate and Thalia 2.0 existed. This deck is actually very good! I made a new thread about it. Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter are extremely powerful cards and stack with the other Tax effects.
Here's my thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/757559-hate-bear-stompy
P.S. in my last post I forgot to mention Gustcloack Savior which I think is the best flyer; it's a big body that combos well with P-Cap and makes combat so much more advantageous.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
EDIT: And I didn't realize in my previous post that Hero of Bladehold is not a Soldier, so I'm not sure I would include it in a soldier deck.
I think the Hate-Bear Stompy deck might just be better, even though it's weaker to early counter spells with no Cavern of Souls. It has so much hate, decks just can't deal it. I will keep testing both.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
COTW is probably better against shardless, last time I played shardless with this deck was well over two years ago, prior to all the updates, and if I did not fly over the last few damage was always hard without COTW. I used Jotun Grunts at the time, which shrank goyf. I don't think they ran Tasigur back then. First strike did a lot I recall.
As much as I don't like Dawnbringer Charioteers, I feel like it would be nice to have lifeline in certain matchups. Also it survives bolt, and can block Delver and Mongoose without dying. Still dies to Dismember.
So I've found Hokori, Dust Drinker to be a great card, and right now I'm not sure how many I want in the deck. For all those people that want to run Winter Orb, this is the card for you. I have 1 mainboard that can be fetched with Recruiter, and I think I might try to fit 1 or 2 more in the sideboard. Get ahead on board, and then throw this guy down. It's insane if you already have a Captain out. It's nice that we have Chrome Mox to untap.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC