Finished my Tiny Leaders deck yesterday. Now I have something for every format except Legacy. This definitely caught my eye. Are there any other variants with other color splashes or is Mono W just the exclusive way of going about it?
Finished my Tiny Leaders deck yesterday. Now I have something for every format except Legacy. This definitely caught my eye. Are there any other variants with other color splashes or is Mono W just the exclusive way of going about it?
You can splash R for Magus of the Moon, Goblin Legionnaire, and Foundry Champion.
You can splash G for Loxodon Smiter and Collected Company.
You can splash U for Daxos of Melitis and Lavinia of the Tenth.
You can splash B for Cao Cao, Lord of Wei, Dauthi Slayer, and Wei Night Raiders.
Of all of these splashes, the ones I would only recommend actually playing are the red splash or the green splash.
I was playing 2 Changeling Hero, 1 main 1 side, but have since replaced them with Gustcloak and Magus. I wanted Eesha's effect, but more broader and Savior fills that role well. Easier to cast as well.
Sideboard is techy. There's a good amount of red in my meta so CoP red is boss. If I was playing in a larger tourney say an open or SCG event it would probably be something more catch all like Crackdown. Magus is the only non soldier besides Revoker, but let me tell you--this card is the stone nuts against Elves. Actual Moat can't get Abrupt Decay, but it can be eaten Reclamation Sage and considering the tools Elves has to get it Moat just looks so bad. Magus however survives both decay and Sage---outside of that Elves has little to no creature removal. As a plus, it's very good against non-red aggro decks like Dredge and Fish, if they aren't playing Dismember.
EDIT: Some shower thoughts about Magic Origins cards and Soldiers.
Magic Origins offered the deck basically 0 cards. Yes, I said it--0 cards.
Why anyone is even considering Kytheon in a deck that whose main turn 1 play should be Thalia or even the actual best play of Chalice at 1 is beyond me. Look at Windbrisk Heights--that card isn't even remotely playable in Legacy and Kytheon requires the same fulfillment. And if and when he flips, how does having this Gideon on board even being to effect your board state. Grats you have a walker, now what? Both of his abilities are pretty much useless post combat (the Indestructible one MAYBE), but he'll flip so late that it won't even matter. Plus, Chalice at one?
Relic Hunter makes me so sad. If you want equipment, just play Stoneforge--and it won't matter because you should be playing cards like Suppression Field anyways--the equipment would take up slots.
Kytheon's Irregulars requires so much white mana that we can't feasibly activate it more than once. He's better in a much more white based deck, like one that can afford the activation and has the access to WW that is at a luxury for us.
If Vryn's Wingmate was at LEAST a human I would consider it over Aven Riftwatcher and some number of Bannerets. But since it doesn't mesh with Cavern and can't be Enlisted-- :(.
Yeah, unfortunately, at this time of year, I always get excited for some of the new Soldiers that they invariably print with every set, only to be disappointed.
The last time I felt this way was when Brimaz was spoiled. I thought they had finally printed something else borderline Tier 1 for the deck to play with, but then in testing he just kept dying to Tarmogoyf and Batterskull and 1WW was an awkward casting cost for something that was purely a beater with little Soldier synergy or any kind of disruptive effects.
Going into the Magic Origins testing I wanted to try Kytheon and Relic Hunter. I've been testing 3 Kytheons and 3-4 Relic Hunters with 1 Umezawa's Jitte and 1 Sword of Fire and Ice.
- Kytheon is basically nothing but a 2/1 for W in Legacy. In the maybe 20+ matches I've tested since adding him, I don't think I've flipped him once. In Legacy, if you're attacking with 3 or more creatures and not worrying about blockers, you're probably winning already, and flipping your guy into a planeswalker is just win-more. And if we're not flipping Kytheon with any regularity, paying W for a 2/1 is nothing new that I couldn't already have with something like Soldier of the Pantheon or Dryad Militant.
- Relic Hunter occasionally connects and grabs me an equipment, and if I can equip my sword or my jitte, it really helps close the game out faster. There is no denying that having Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice at your disposable adds alot of fuel to your creature deck. I just don't know if Relic Hunter is good enough if he isnt' fetching equipment, and if equipment is fast enough or if I'd rather just play something like a Kor Skyfisher or Ballyrush Banneret in his place that have immediate effects and don't require any mana beyond their initial cost. I'm still kind of torn regarding the Relic Hunter.
I haven't tested Kytheon's Irregulars or Hixis, Prison Warden, but at 4+ mana they really need to be special to take the place of existing staples like Daru Warchief, Gustcloak Savior, or Captain of the Watch.
Clearly Thalia/Chalice is a very strong place to start. Frankly, Suppression Field is not bad either. But the strength of the deck falls off a cliff after that. I see the benefit of Cavern and Enlistment Officer and Preeminent Captain. But by going that route, this deck is inexorably bound to the role of aggro. So, I have a possibly dumb question to pose to you folks. Does it have to be soldiers? You lose some of the best creatures that way. Mother of Runes is crazy good with Preeminent Captain. You could even fetch them with Ranger of Eos.
Also, Cavern of Souls makes any color. In my messing around with Slivers, I discovered the power of nearly-all-creature decks with Caverns. On that note, Wake Thrasher and Basalt Monolith is infinite damage, and both are fairly good on their own. Just some thoughts.
The problem with removing Soldiers for non-Soldiers is simply that Enlistment Officer becomes worse. And you might say, well, why bother with Enlistment Officer? But he is one of the best creatures in the deck and one of the reasons to even play this. Being able to refuel your hand in an aggro deck is amazing in general but critical against things like Terminus. It's one of the reasons Goblins did so well for so long - having access to Ringleader. Enlistment officer is this deck's Ringleader.
I could see experimenting with Wake Thrasher in a blue-splash version, potentially. I really don't like gumming up decks with stuff like Basalt Monolith, though, that really don't do much by themselves. One of the main reasons I dislike playing MUD over other Ancient Tomb decks is those awkward topdecks of stuff like Grim Monolith or Metalworker when you have an empty hand. And both Monolith and Metalworker are much better cards than Basalt Monolith.
Unfortunately, several people have confirmed to me that his trigger will not work if he is put into play off the Captain, because Captain puts creatures into play "attacking" but for the purposes of the game and these kinds of triggers, they never "attacked".
Gatherer confirms it too:
Kytheon’s first ability will count creatures that attacked but are no longer on the battlefield (perhaps because they didn’t survive combat damage being dealt). It will not count any creatures that were put onto the battlefield attacking, as those creatures were never declared as attackers.
Personally, I think WOTC has screwed up their semantics. If they wanted only creatures that were declared as attackers, the trigger should either read
1) "Battalion - Whenever you attack with ___ and at least 2 other creatures, at end of combat, if __ is still on the battlefield, exile ___ and return ..." (i.e. a delayed trigger that checks the number of creatures at time of declaring attackers)
or
2) "At end of combat, if ___ and at least two other creatures were attackers this turn, exile __ and return ..." (condition on whether they were "attackers")
The problem with the current wording is that although a cheated in creature is not declared as an "attacker", it was certainly "attacking" ("put ___ onto the battlefield tapped and attacking"). Therefore, unless the conjugation "attacked" is defined as a keyword (which it is not), one would assume from English grammar that a creature that was previously "attacking" has "attacked". If they want the current functionality, IMO the card should really be checking whether the creatures were "attackers".
Back to the deck: A 1 drop you have to cast seems awful for this deck.
Given the number of Chalices in the format its a wonder we counter anything with it....)
This deck seems to be picking up new options, but what we really need is a Spirit of the Lab or an Eidolon of Rhetoric in Solider form. Fingers crossed for the next set.
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I am looking again at this deck- it has been my most neglected project as I have been on other decks for Legacy. I always feel I have two issues with the deck- not quite enough generically good soldiers (Thalia style), and a mana base that is less consistent than say, D n T.
I feel if the deck could get 18 sideboard cards into 15 it would be great. Legacy always has the issue of not enough bases being covered in 15 cards, it is why we play the format. D N T and Maverick offer more lines of play than we do, and cover more with their board. The downside of our type of deck is unless new all round stars get made we are in an awkward place with just 15 cards to change the deck and a lot of binary cards. D n T is the best comparison to our deck, and the difference is the control present in their deck is flexible- port for mana one turn, to tap out the next with a SFM, and then back to tapping and oh, look a wasteland..... . If we could even get something o-ring esque with a body to deal with troublesome permanents eg Swords and give us a bit of flexibility that would be a start. As it is we don't and thus end up with some O-ring Thalia tension or blowout o rings that do nothing.
Our most explosive plays are Preminent based, our best opening plays vs a lot of decks are Thalia or Chalice, or just curving into Soliders for value with uncounterability.
If we don't do that winning is hard with no manipulation.
I for one have had little value out of bannerets- sometimes they resolve and enable me to play a couple early dudes, often if their mana reduction is relevant I can't attack with them.
Flyers seem to win matches a lot because we clog the ground up but sometimes can't push through without using Brave the Elements or Reverent Mantra type cards.- Eesha is good, and I use the incredibly bad Charioteers just to get flying and lifegain.
Neither feels good, although Eesha has a bit of Karakas synergy/vulnerability and is great against a fair few decks witha Chalice down to prevent him being swords fodder, and against a critter match that lifelink can win.
I want to try Anafenza spirit bolster machine, though I think it offers us not a lot. I wish I could get Etched Champion working.
One thing I may do is take the lands to 19/20 via mutavault- might give us a bit of nibble post terminus, or even a colourless blocker for affinity which is now resident in my meta (I invariably end up loaning Miracles, D n T, and now affinity). I am fed up of being shafted by 1 landers with a Mox which then bites it somehow.
On the same subject I may play about with maindeck Revokers. They can be Caverned in if needed as everything else is a soldier a second on one horror might just do the job.
More colourless blocking is good for me too. I am never quite happy with suppression field- great vs Miracles and fetch heavy decks, sure, good vs a lot of decks, does not a lot vs others and late on is a horrible top deck.
I would be happy if people had some lists that are up to date. Will post mine soon.
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Just to add on this, I might head in the direction of winter orb over field, maybe Tower of the Magistrate for those irritating equipments.
I will play about and see what happens
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So I think I *may* have just discovered the key to this deck.
Here's a recent Eureka! moment (with 4 major points) that I had and have been winning non-stop with the deck in testing since I made the change dictated by this Eureka moment:
- Daru Warchief is a mediocre card and should not be played at all in this deck.
- Captain of the Watch is one of the best cards in this deck and should be played as a 4-of.
- Gustcloak Savior is the best card this deck has against mid-range decks with beefy creatures and should be played as a 4-of.
- Putting Captain of the Watch or Gustcloak Savior into play with Preeminent Captain is almost always better than getting a Daru Warchief.
I think we've been a little remiss regarding the actual purpose of this deck. It's not a Soldier aggro deck but more of a "Preminent Captain/Thalia/Chalice" deck. All you want to be doing is stopping their cheap stuff with Thalia, and Chalice, and then locking out the big-mana decks with Winter Orb, all while "combo"ing off witih Preminent Captain. You don't care about anything that Daru Warchief does - his pump is mostly win-more and irrelevant if you're attacking with Preeminent Captain anyway, and the discount effect comes down too late to really matter anyway. By himself he sucks as a 2/3 for 4 mana, whereas by themselves Captain of the Watch and Gustcloak Savior are highly relevant as stand-alone creatures.
Against decks like Storm or Miracles where Gustcloak Savior isn't relevant, it's still a fine attacker but worse than Daru Warchief because it costs more and doesn't give pump. *BUT* against those decks, your clock doesn't matter nearly as much as your volume of disruption. If you land Thalia and/or Chalice against Storm, you're probably winning regardless of whether you had Warchief in play or Gustcloak.
And against the decks like Stoneblade, RUG Delver, BUG Delver, Death'n'Taxes, Aggro Loam, Shardless BUG where Gustcloak Savior *IS* relevant (attacking into Tarmogoyfs and Batterskulls) - you'd never want Daru Warchief because he'd just get blocked by their fatty and you'd end up losing your board position. Against those decks, Savior will do just what his name implies - save your guys and let you execute the game plan by attacking regardless of blockers. And against Delver decks, he'll be able to block late-game threatening delvers that Daru Warchief could never interact with.
Here's the list I think Soldier pilots should be playing going forward (NO Daru Warchiefs or other Lords other than Captain of the Watch!):
I dropped both banneret recently and warchief a while back.
I am on one Gustcloak, it is superb.I run 3 COTW. I want to run 2 Gustcloak but it only is the nuts with preemninent. Other than that it is simply solid in that it flys and has a great ability vs opposing batterskulls/Jitte'd dudes.
At the moment I am not running supp field or orb. My disruption is chalice and 2 orings plus Thalia, with 4 revokers squuezed main due to meta considerations.
I am using one of the recent renowned dudes that tap, mainly for Sneak and Show plus reanimator.
I wish we had preeminents 5-8. This list is similar to mine, but I dropped Jotuns and put orb in the board. I am running hookmaster and charioteers main. I also have squeezed in.
I totally agree on Warchief, every time I try him he leaves me with less options.
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I think Banneret still has lots of value. It comes down early enough to make the discount effect worthwhile immediately; additionally, its cost means that it's essentially a free body in most games.
Being able to cast 4 mana soldiers on turn 3 or 6 mana Captain of the Watch with only 5 mana is a huge tempo gain.
What I have found with Banneret is that he wins me almost no games that I would otherwise lose. Because my main deck disruption "Suppresssion/orb" slot is a 2/1 critter that needs to be dropped preemptively vs some decks (+ 4 chalice of course), another 2/1 critter that is naturally first strike-less is often not what I need against critter decks. The key being "I" need. I can see why Banneret can do a job in a lot of lists (although WW can sometimes be frustrating), but given my choices going in with 12 2/1 dudes is not what I want.
I still get to cast 4 mana soldiers t3 a reasonable chunk of the time thanks to Mox/Tomb, and use Hookmaster to attempt to buy the extra time sometimes too.
I would never write the little guy off in the way I have with Warchief.
What I have found is that the key cards in our build are Chalice and Karakas defensively and Preeminent/Enlistment officer/Cavern offensively. I would guess this is your experience? The rest seem more about adjusting to taste.
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What I have found is that the key cards in our build are Chalice and Karakas defensively and Preeminent/Enlistment officer/Cavern offensively. I would guess this is your experience? The rest seem more about adjusting to taste.
The best and most important nonland cards in this deck, in descending order, are:
1. Chalice of the Void
2. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3. Preeminent Captain
4. Enlistment Officer
5. Captain of the Watch
I missed Thalia off- it should have been with Karakas in the first section, obviously.
I did not include captain as it generally comes down early via its Preeminent friend, and because it seems to hover at 3 copies in a lot of lists.
I do find cavern to be super important in those blue metas, if only because of Thalia/Preeminent main and cards like containment priest in the board.
I think then it is pretty safe to assume the core of the deck is
4 chalice
4 thalia
4 preeminent
4 enlistment officer
x captains
4 mana accelerants (I use chrome mox)
some sol lands
4 caverns
The problem we have is finding the exact ideal back up. For my money the issue is no combination of suppression field/winter orbs/revokers/orings etc. seem to nail metas exactly- they all have pros/cons.
I do think that a bit of flying is important in our deck too.
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Hey, look at this... a playable soldier printed for once:
You have to play more Humans in the deck to make it work, but he's a Lord *and* a Quirion Dryad type of creature all rolled into one. Definitely strong enough to be playable in here, imho.
Yes, quite possibly.To be honest there are a lot soldiers that are chaff outside of this deck that work in it. I mean I have used Kytheon's Irregulars and Gustcloaks in the deck before, not to mention commander eesha and charioteers. The thing with the shell is that any big solider can be cheated out, caverns, moxen and Tombs make even the most mediocre looking of soldiers playable. This new one may work well.
I loaned this deck out to a new player last night, and it was going toe to toe with Miracles (1-1 with the third game in the bag almost), beating death and taxes 2-0. I never found out its final round score (I played it with parfait round 3 and won) but it was doing well.
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Yup... As soon as I saw this card spoiled I realized they finally printed a really worthy new inclusion to the deck for the first time in like 4+ years (since last Thalia, really).
This is definitely a new 4-of in this deck and alongside stuff like Suppression Field and/or Winter Orb and of course the original Thalia, makes this a much more competitive deck.
3 drop? check, mono white symbol? check, tax AND power? check and also has first strike. Thalia saves the day again, she could even make this deck a real thing.
Also on her lieutenant, based on my list: 4 daru warchief, 4 enlistment officer, 4 captain of the watch, 4 thalia's lieutenant, 8 thalias
those are 24 human is that enoughnto run lieutenant?
You can splash R for Magus of the Moon, Goblin Legionnaire, and Foundry Champion.
You can splash G for Loxodon Smiter and Collected Company.
You can splash U for Daxos of Melitis and Lavinia of the Tenth.
You can splash B for Cao Cao, Lord of Wei, Dauthi Slayer, and Wei Night Raiders.
Of all of these splashes, the ones I would only recommend actually playing are the red splash or the green splash.
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Captain of the Watch
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Daru Warchief
4 Ballyrush Banneret
2 Field Marshal
2 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Gustcloak Savior
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
1 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
8 Plains
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Banishing Light
1 Magus of the Moat
2 Aegis of the Gods
2 Oblivion Ring
2 High Sentinels of Arashin
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Rest in Peace
I was playing 2 Changeling Hero, 1 main 1 side, but have since replaced them with Gustcloak and Magus. I wanted Eesha's effect, but more broader and Savior fills that role well. Easier to cast as well.
Sideboard is techy. There's a good amount of red in my meta so CoP red is boss. If I was playing in a larger tourney say an open or SCG event it would probably be something more catch all like Crackdown. Magus is the only non soldier besides Revoker, but let me tell you--this card is the stone nuts against Elves. Actual Moat can't get Abrupt Decay, but it can be eaten Reclamation Sage and considering the tools Elves has to get it Moat just looks so bad. Magus however survives both decay and Sage---outside of that Elves has little to no creature removal. As a plus, it's very good against non-red aggro decks like Dredge and Fish, if they aren't playing Dismember.
EDIT: Some shower thoughts about Magic Origins cards and Soldiers.
Magic Origins offered the deck basically 0 cards. Yes, I said it--0 cards.
Why anyone is even considering Kytheon in a deck that whose main turn 1 play should be Thalia or even the actual best play of Chalice at 1 is beyond me. Look at Windbrisk Heights--that card isn't even remotely playable in Legacy and Kytheon requires the same fulfillment. And if and when he flips, how does having this Gideon on board even being to effect your board state. Grats you have a walker, now what? Both of his abilities are pretty much useless post combat (the Indestructible one MAYBE), but he'll flip so late that it won't even matter. Plus, Chalice at one?
Relic Hunter makes me so sad. If you want equipment, just play Stoneforge--and it won't matter because you should be playing cards like Suppression Field anyways--the equipment would take up slots.
Kytheon's Irregulars requires so much white mana that we can't feasibly activate it more than once. He's better in a much more white based deck, like one that can afford the activation and has the access to WW that is at a luxury for us.
If Vryn's Wingmate was at LEAST a human I would consider it over Aven Riftwatcher and some number of Bannerets. But since it doesn't mesh with Cavern and can't be Enlisted-- :(.
Man this core set sucked.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
The last time I felt this way was when Brimaz was spoiled. I thought they had finally printed something else borderline Tier 1 for the deck to play with, but then in testing he just kept dying to Tarmogoyf and Batterskull and 1WW was an awkward casting cost for something that was purely a beater with little Soldier synergy or any kind of disruptive effects.
Going into the Magic Origins testing I wanted to try Kytheon and Relic Hunter. I've been testing 3 Kytheons and 3-4 Relic Hunters with 1 Umezawa's Jitte and 1 Sword of Fire and Ice.
- Kytheon is basically nothing but a 2/1 for W in Legacy. In the maybe 20+ matches I've tested since adding him, I don't think I've flipped him once. In Legacy, if you're attacking with 3 or more creatures and not worrying about blockers, you're probably winning already, and flipping your guy into a planeswalker is just win-more. And if we're not flipping Kytheon with any regularity, paying W for a 2/1 is nothing new that I couldn't already have with something like Soldier of the Pantheon or Dryad Militant.
- Relic Hunter occasionally connects and grabs me an equipment, and if I can equip my sword or my jitte, it really helps close the game out faster. There is no denying that having Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice at your disposable adds alot of fuel to your creature deck. I just don't know if Relic Hunter is good enough if he isnt' fetching equipment, and if equipment is fast enough or if I'd rather just play something like a Kor Skyfisher or Ballyrush Banneret in his place that have immediate effects and don't require any mana beyond their initial cost. I'm still kind of torn regarding the Relic Hunter.
I haven't tested Kytheon's Irregulars or Hixis, Prison Warden, but at 4+ mana they really need to be special to take the place of existing staples like Daru Warchief, Gustcloak Savior, or Captain of the Watch.
Also, Cavern of Souls makes any color. In my messing around with Slivers, I discovered the power of nearly-all-creature decks with Caverns. On that note, Wake Thrasher and Basalt Monolith is infinite damage, and both are fairly good on their own. Just some thoughts.
I could see experimenting with Wake Thrasher in a blue-splash version, potentially. I really don't like gumming up decks with stuff like Basalt Monolith, though, that really don't do much by themselves. One of the main reasons I dislike playing MUD over other Ancient Tomb decks is those awkward topdecks of stuff like Grim Monolith or Metalworker when you have an empty hand. And both Monolith and Metalworker are much better cards than Basalt Monolith.
Gatherer confirms it too:
Personally, I think WOTC has screwed up their semantics. If they wanted only creatures that were declared as attackers, the trigger should either read
1) "Battalion - Whenever you attack with ___ and at least 2 other creatures, at end of combat, if __ is still on the battlefield, exile ___ and return ..." (i.e. a delayed trigger that checks the number of creatures at time of declaring attackers)
or
2) "At end of combat, if ___ and at least two other creatures were attackers this turn, exile __ and return ..." (condition on whether they were "attackers")
The problem with the current wording is that although a cheated in creature is not declared as an "attacker", it was certainly "attacking" ("put ___ onto the battlefield tapped and attacking"). Therefore, unless the conjugation "attacked" is defined as a keyword (which it is not), one would assume from English grammar that a creature that was previously "attacking" has "attacked". If they want the current functionality, IMO the card should really be checking whether the creatures were "attackers".
Back to the deck: A 1 drop you have to cast seems awful for this deck.
Found this. It's quite old, not sure if it has already been mentioned but its worth a watch.
This deck seems to be picking up new options, but what we really need is a Spirit of the Lab or an Eidolon of Rhetoric in Solider form. Fingers crossed for the next set.
Any cards from BFZ at all? I know the set was pretty lackluster
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
It allows you to safely attack Preeminent Captain into blockers.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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I feel if the deck could get 18 sideboard cards into 15 it would be great. Legacy always has the issue of not enough bases being covered in 15 cards, it is why we play the format. D N T and Maverick offer more lines of play than we do, and cover more with their board. The downside of our type of deck is unless new all round stars get made we are in an awkward place with just 15 cards to change the deck and a lot of binary cards. D n T is the best comparison to our deck, and the difference is the control present in their deck is flexible- port for mana one turn, to tap out the next with a SFM, and then back to tapping and oh, look a wasteland..... . If we could even get something o-ring esque with a body to deal with troublesome permanents eg Swords and give us a bit of flexibility that would be a start. As it is we don't and thus end up with some O-ring Thalia tension or blowout o rings that do nothing.
Our most explosive plays are Preminent based, our best opening plays vs a lot of decks are Thalia or Chalice, or just curving into Soliders for value with uncounterability.
If we don't do that winning is hard with no manipulation.
I for one have had little value out of bannerets- sometimes they resolve and enable me to play a couple early dudes, often if their mana reduction is relevant I can't attack with them.
Flyers seem to win matches a lot because we clog the ground up but sometimes can't push through without using Brave the Elements or Reverent Mantra type cards.- Eesha is good, and I use the incredibly bad Charioteers just to get flying and lifegain.
Neither feels good, although Eesha has a bit of Karakas synergy/vulnerability and is great against a fair few decks witha Chalice down to prevent him being swords fodder, and against a critter match that lifelink can win.
I want to try Anafenza spirit bolster machine, though I think it offers us not a lot. I wish I could get Etched Champion working.
One thing I may do is take the lands to 19/20 via mutavault- might give us a bit of nibble post terminus, or even a colourless blocker for affinity which is now resident in my meta (I invariably end up loaning Miracles, D n T, and now affinity). I am fed up of being shafted by 1 landers with a Mox which then bites it somehow.
On the same subject I may play about with maindeck Revokers. They can be Caverned in if needed as everything else is a soldier a second on one horror might just do the job.
More colourless blocking is good for me too. I am never quite happy with suppression field- great vs Miracles and fetch heavy decks, sure, good vs a lot of decks, does not a lot vs others and late on is a horrible top deck.
I would be happy if people had some lists that are up to date. Will post mine soon.
I will play about and see what happens
Here's a recent Eureka! moment (with 4 major points) that I had and have been winning non-stop with the deck in testing since I made the change dictated by this Eureka moment:
- Daru Warchief is a mediocre card and should not be played at all in this deck.
- Captain of the Watch is one of the best cards in this deck and should be played as a 4-of.
- Gustcloak Savior is the best card this deck has against mid-range decks with beefy creatures and should be played as a 4-of.
- Putting Captain of the Watch or Gustcloak Savior into play with Preeminent Captain is almost always better than getting a Daru Warchief.
I think we've been a little remiss regarding the actual purpose of this deck. It's not a Soldier aggro deck but more of a "Preminent Captain/Thalia/Chalice" deck. All you want to be doing is stopping their cheap stuff with Thalia, and Chalice, and then locking out the big-mana decks with Winter Orb, all while "combo"ing off witih Preminent Captain. You don't care about anything that Daru Warchief does - his pump is mostly win-more and irrelevant if you're attacking with Preeminent Captain anyway, and the discount effect comes down too late to really matter anyway. By himself he sucks as a 2/3 for 4 mana, whereas by themselves Captain of the Watch and Gustcloak Savior are highly relevant as stand-alone creatures.
Against decks like Storm or Miracles where Gustcloak Savior isn't relevant, it's still a fine attacker but worse than Daru Warchief because it costs more and doesn't give pump. *BUT* against those decks, your clock doesn't matter nearly as much as your volume of disruption. If you land Thalia and/or Chalice against Storm, you're probably winning regardless of whether you had Warchief in play or Gustcloak.
And against the decks like Stoneblade, RUG Delver, BUG Delver, Death'n'Taxes, Aggro Loam, Shardless BUG where Gustcloak Savior *IS* relevant (attacking into Tarmogoyfs and Batterskulls) - you'd never want Daru Warchief because he'd just get blocked by their fatty and you'd end up losing your board position. Against those decks, Savior will do just what his name implies - save your guys and let you execute the game plan by attacking regardless of blockers. And against Delver decks, he'll be able to block late-game threatening delvers that Daru Warchief could never interact with.
Here's the list I think Soldier pilots should be playing going forward (NO Daru Warchiefs or other Lords other than Captain of the Watch!):
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Captain of the Watch
4 Enlistment Officer
3 Ballyrush Banneret
4 Gustcloak Savior
3 Kor Skyfisher
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Winter Orb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
5 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
2 City of Traitors
3 Karakas
4 Banishing Light
1 Magus of the Moat
4 Damping Matrix
2 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Rest in Peace
I am on one Gustcloak, it is superb.I run 3 COTW. I want to run 2 Gustcloak but it only is the nuts with preemninent. Other than that it is simply solid in that it flys and has a great ability vs opposing batterskulls/Jitte'd dudes.
At the moment I am not running supp field or orb. My disruption is chalice and 2 orings plus Thalia, with 4 revokers squuezed main due to meta considerations.
I am using one of the recent renowned dudes that tap, mainly for Sneak and Show plus reanimator.
I wish we had preeminents 5-8. This list is similar to mine, but I dropped Jotuns and put orb in the board. I am running hookmaster and charioteers main. I also have squeezed in.
I totally agree on Warchief, every time I try him he leaves me with less options.
Being able to cast 4 mana soldiers on turn 3 or 6 mana Captain of the Watch with only 5 mana is a huge tempo gain.
I still get to cast 4 mana soldiers t3 a reasonable chunk of the time thanks to Mox/Tomb, and use Hookmaster to attempt to buy the extra time sometimes too.
I would never write the little guy off in the way I have with Warchief.
What I have found is that the key cards in our build are Chalice and Karakas defensively and Preeminent/Enlistment officer/Cavern offensively. I would guess this is your experience? The rest seem more about adjusting to taste.
The best and most important nonland cards in this deck, in descending order, are:
1. Chalice of the Void
2. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3. Preeminent Captain
4. Enlistment Officer
5. Captain of the Watch
I did not include captain as it generally comes down early via its Preeminent friend, and because it seems to hover at 3 copies in a lot of lists.
I do find cavern to be super important in those blue metas, if only because of Thalia/Preeminent main and cards like containment priest in the board.
I think then it is pretty safe to assume the core of the deck is
4 chalice
4 thalia
4 preeminent
4 enlistment officer
x captains
4 mana accelerants (I use chrome mox)
some sol lands
4 caverns
The problem we have is finding the exact ideal back up. For my money the issue is no combination of suppression field/winter orbs/revokers/orings etc. seem to nail metas exactly- they all have pros/cons.
I do think that a bit of flying is important in our deck too.
You have to play more Humans in the deck to make it work, but he's a Lord *and* a Quirion Dryad type of creature all rolled into one. Definitely strong enough to be playable in here, imho.
I loaned this deck out to a new player last night, and it was going toe to toe with Miracles (1-1 with the third game in the bag almost), beating death and taxes 2-0. I never found out its final round score (I played it with parfait round 3 and won) but it was doing well.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
This is definitely a new 4-of in this deck and alongside stuff like Suppression Field and/or Winter Orb and of course the original Thalia, makes this a much more competitive deck.
Also on her lieutenant, based on my list: 4 daru warchief, 4 enlistment officer, 4 captain of the watch, 4 thalia's lieutenant, 8 thalias
those are 24 human is that enoughnto run lieutenant?