MTG Salvation

Quote from twndomn

I don't know why people on this thread are still doing the "development" when someone has already top8 with this idea.

Bonsai Yet 2nd in TLA - 2012 - Torneo 5 (Oct-2012)

Wildfire393's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creature 1 1 Vendilion Clique 4 Enlightened Tutor 2 Spell Pierce 4 Force of Will 4 Brainstorm 2 Entreat the Angels 3 Terminus 1 Supreme Verdict	4 Energy Field 1 Detention Sphere 4 Rest in Peace 4 Counterbalance 4 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Engineered Explosives 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor	3 Island 1 Plains 4 Flooded Strand 4 Scalding Tarn 2 Arid Mesa 1 Volcanic Island 4 Tundra 1 Karakas

Yeah, this guy pulled a smart move by dropping Helm, it's not useful and redundant. Just run the combo package and merge with miracle.

Eh, I'd definitely consider a 1-of Helm in that deck, especially with 4 E Tutors. It definitely gives you a lot of closing power against decks you need to clock to beat. I see this build having a ton of trouble against Omni-Tell in particular.

This idea must be gaining traction. Energy Field has creeped up from $8 to $12 midrange price on TCGplayer, while Helm of Obedience has shot up from like $3 to $12.

Also, I've come to find a new respect for that previously-posted decklist. I forgot that E Tutor into Detention Sphere basically means that Omni-tell can't win without resolving TWO Show and Tells, which gives it a fair amount of traction in that matchup.

Quote from Heidi.kwks

dunno if you saw this list but since nobody talked about it i'm posting it

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9239&iddeck=67483

This list is really notable in the fact that it runs no Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Terminus, or Supreme Verdict maindeck. And I'm actually thinking that that's the way to go - Rip-Field protects you in creature based matchups, and this way you have more slots available to silver bullets and countermagic. If I had to make a single change to the deck, I'd say -1 D-Sphere, +1 Ethersworn Canonist main. Canonist gives some much needed disruption and pressure against Storm and Omni-Tell decks, and is one of your greatest tools in any matchup against Blue, since you can use it to force through your Helms while negating their ability to support their own spells with counter backup. I might also suggest getting 1-2 manlands in there, despite their lack of synergy with B2B, just because otherwise the deck can only with via Helm Combo or scoops.

Quote from twndomn

so I start testing Fabian Knoche, here's my observation.

1. Takes 4ever to win
Most of time, you spend your first Enlightened Tutor to complete the damage lock (RIP + EF). After that, there's this period of time, like 10 turns, you dig and dig, trying to find your Helm or another ET. This is incredibly passive and fragile.

2. Jace
I don't understand why this deck does not run at least 2 Jace MS. I would further argue that any decks run Miracle cards should have at least 2 JMS, cause 4 brainstorms are not going to be enough for you to put that Terminus back to top of your library from hand. Also, re-iterate to point 1, JMS provides more brainstorm effect to find that ET/Helm.

1. Is certainly true. I put this list together, somewhat tinkered with, and I did have some trouble closing out the deal. And my list ran 2x Mishra's Factory, 1x Ethersworn Canonist, and 1x Vedalken Shackles as supplementary wincons.
On the other hand, most decks don't have an answer for RIP/Field game one. Assembling the combo against any deck without maindeck enchantment hate, Jace, or Emrakul (which includes RUG, Goblins, Belcher, Dredge, Burn, Merfolk, many Miracles/Stoneblade lists that don't run MD O-Ring or D-Sphere, etc), they basically scoop. And Pithing Needle solves Jace as well as some of the most commonly played maindeck enchantment hate (Qasali Pridemage and Mangara of Corondor)

2. I could see going either way on Jace. On the one hand, he does "fall outside of the field" as someone put earlier. If you've got field/rip out and drop Jace, it turns all their creatures back on again. Also, the list I'm running doesn't include any Miracles, so lack of Brainstorms doesn't really hurt.
On the other hand, he is an alternative win condition.


Still, with a large fetch density plus Brainstorms and Tops, it's easy to dig through your deck for E Tutors or even 1-ofs. The deck also has a lot of autowin matches, including Burn, Storm, and Dredge. This is definitely an FNM-stomper, as it handles all or almost all of the more budget decks with ease.

Quote from twndomn

I'm almost certain he's also a feature writer somewhere, did he write a report somewhere about his result?

Also, I'm not convinced that this deck has a decent match-up against Storm, at least not game 1. Can someone explain that to me? Like..., it's good because CB-T can disrupt the mana production? Maybe I'm missing something something obvious.

Counterbalance is practically an automatic win against storm. It allows you to pretty easily counter all of their rituals + tutors/draw, and it's not impossible to counter AN or Pif either.

So here's a list I've been playing with and testing a little bit. I scrubbed out 1-2 in an FNM Legacy on Friday, but apart from that my testing has been very positive. Here are some matchups I've tested:

RUG - Tricky, but definitely winnable. RIP turns Goyf into a 0/1 and Goose into a 1/1. Delver is your biggest problem here. Things like Porphyry Nodes and Vedalken Shackles are great here. Maindeck they have no responses to RIP-Field, so they should almost always scoop if you can land it. Take your time, and play around Daze and Spell Pierce as best possible. Games 2&3 they can bring in Krosan Grip maybe and Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast almost certainly. You can bring in more Nodes, Shackles, maybe Supreme Verdict. I'm not sure on Verdict though, as double white can be tough if they get a heavy Waste/Stifle hand.

Reanimator - I'm not sure it's actually possible to lose this one. Rest in Peace blanks them game one. Game two, Humility from the sideboard blanks Show and Tell as well. Karakas is also an "oops, you lose" draw, and with all of the shuffling/Tops/Brainstorms, it's pretty easy to run into it.

Combo Elves - Number 1 E Tutor target is Canonist. She alone makes this incredibly hard for them to win, as they've basically got to land enough Priests + untappers one card at a time to drop an Emrakul, and Counterbalance/Nodes/Shackles/D Sphere can all slow them down further, while Energy Field can take away aggro as an option. Game two it gets even easier, as additional Canonist effects, Humility, and maybe other sweepers come in.

Sea Stompy - This isn't a real deck, but I somehow played against it a bit in testing and then one round of the FNM. In testing, I handled it easily, but in the actual games, it was quite the reverse. Sometimes, they just get hands with t1 Chalice of the Void on 1, turn two Chalice on 2, and you just pray to naturally draw a one-of D-Sphere or lose. The rest of the time, they're a clunky tempo deck and you tromp nicely over their buttholes.

Burn - This matchup is at least 90% in your favor. Burn has trouble with Counterbalance-Top decks anyways, but when you add Energy Field into the mix, they just throw their hands up in frustration. Even without RIP, Field is effectively an auto-win, as it blanks literally every card in their maindeck. Sideboard, they can bring in some Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblasts, but it's still a very hard uphill battle for them.

Quote from jspatenka

Hello Wildfire393, I like your list, I am building something similar with some Swords to Plowshares, Back To Basics instead Vedalken Shackles and with islands/plains/fetches manabase. Ethersworn Canonist seems nice, I will probably give it a try. Unfortunately I don't have time for testing so I will rely heavily on advices of great community of players from MTGS

One of the great problems we can face with this deck is [CARD]Abrupt Decay
[/CARD]. It destroys any non-land permanent except of Helm of Obedience, which could be devastating for the deck. I know there are basically two types of the deck - the straight field/rip/helm with countertop without any other cards or the version with miracles and jace. I am not a fan of half and half strategies - I would rather play 100% miracles or 100% rip combo, but I can understand the logic behind it. It gives you more win conditions but makes the deck "less focused"... it will probably require a heavy testing to see what strategy will give better results.

I am personally planning to add one Entreat the Angels into main deck and I will see how it will go.

Let me know what do you think, thanks !

Thanks for the input, specific responses:

Swords to Plowshares - I'm really not sure that this is needed. I'm probably running it sideboard, but a better approach to creatures I've found is just to ignore them - with RIP/Field set up, they can't kill you. Nodes, Sphere, and Shackles all provide niche powerful forms of removal, and they're all importantly tutorable with E Tutor. Swords in the Board, I can see.

Back to Basics - I had this in the original draft of the list, it got moved to SB because I never found myself itching to cast it, and it may lose its slot their because I haven't really found much opportunity to board it in. It's slow, and it punishes you for naturally drawing duals, Karakas, or factories.

Abrupt Decay is something of a problem, in theory. In practice, what decks run it? Nothing currently popular does. There's a few lists that could fit it in (Junk, Aggro Loam, Pernicious Jace, etc), but I'm overall not soiling myself over it. And in the board I'm packing Divert and Misdirection as potential answers to it.

I considered one Entreat as an additional win condition, but I'm currently leaning against it. I've found it's difficult at times to assemble WWW in this deck, especially against decks like Delver. Really, anything with Wastelands/other forms of land disruption. Personally, I'd rather run something like a 1-of Sacred Mesa or Mobilization. They're slower wincons, but they are less vulnerable to Daze/Spell Pierce, less contingent on having to Miracle, more resilient to sweepers, more tutorable with Enlightened Tutor, and more synergistic with the Humility I often board in.