like the idea of the deck. random thought because i'm working on a token based deck that runs endless whispers yes i include field wipes but the simple thing here is since you only really run a stoneforge, most if not all your opponents creatures come to your side when they die while your's never do since they're mainly tokens. just a thought. figured i'd post it here until i can work out a viable deck idea.
Also not sure if I want 4x midnight haunting, or if I want a 2/2 split of that and spectral procession
Your deck list contains only 57 cards... I've been toying around with this deck a bit and it's been frustrating to be defeated by my own casual R/G aggro deck using a similar build to your list. The problem I have with enlightened tutor is that it's a card disadvantage, sure you can get a single humility but that alone doesn't seem strong enough board strategy and is trying to compensate for the weaker points of this deck, i.e. having all 1/1 creatures on the board. Conversely, if your using the tutor package to retrieve bitterblossom or intangible virtue you are at an equal card disadvantage as previous example; when running 4x any card you shouldn't be tutoring for said card because the probability of drawing into it is that much greater. I do like stoneforge mystic in this build, creature and tutor in one: and ability to cheat in a batterskull and if you add umezawa's jitte to the package you'd have repeatable equipment with counters to abuse with all the disposable 1/1 tokens.
Your definitely doing it wrong. Batterskull with no SFM in an aggro deck is wrong. Tokens without Jitte is also wrong. You need bodies to make that card great... And bodies are the one thing this deck doesn't lack.
You talk about balance between removal and discard and then run no removal.
Why run Chapel? There's no reason. Run Wasteland or
Factories.
Your definitely doing it wrong. Batterskull with no SFM in an aggro deck is wrong. Tokens without Jitte is also wrong. You need bodies to make that card great... And bodies are the one thing this deck doesn't lack.
You talk about balance between removal and discard and then run no removal.
Why run Chapel? There's no reason. Run Wasteland or
Factories.
I never thought of jitte tbqh. Do you think 1 would be good enough to tutor up with E. Tutor? Or should i have two? The reason I had batterskull without SFM is because I figured it would be a late game beater if I needed it/didn't need it turn 3. I also worry if I add SFM to this that it slowly turns into stoneblade.
Ah that's what I forgot! I have 3 ghastly demise. I also currently have 2 StP in the sideboard (though I'm not sure if maybe PtE would be better for this deck)
The chapel is there to give me more mana fixing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
But you never need more than one of each color. Mishra's factory and Wasteland are definitely better. 18 effective mana sources is enough.
Jitte is just insane with tokens. Make two tokens, put the Jitte on one. Swing with it. The token dies and you get two counters. Equip the Jitte to another token. Now that token can be pumped to a 5/5 and you get another two counters to use next turn.
Don't play a subpar card because you don't want to be similar to another deck. Maybe play two Jitte? But even then you won't be drawing it as much as you'd like, because when you do draw it it'll be amazing. Especially if you had fliers.
I would say spectral procession. Elspeth is good. Either one really. Both versions of her are token friendly but the emblem errant gives is nice. And sorin is good because of his ultimate. Granted all abilities are good but certain decks will not benefit from his ultimate.
Do not run Entreat the Angels without library manipulation. It's a bad idea. I feel like you need atleast 2-3 jittes, and the stoneforge package.
Honor the pure + bitterblossom just doesn't work.
Also, your lack of batterskull concerns me.
back when I played the deck heavily I remember using planeswalkers and hating them. I looked back at my list rather recently and wanted to improve it. This is what I got:
Modern: Modern is Bad
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
This might sound odd but wouldnt humility also make ur tokens 1/1 even if u have 3 virtues on the field?
Nope, power and toughness setting abilities are applied in the layering affect before altering power and toughness abilities so your tokens get the boosts.
If you play humility I highly suggest you read deep into layers and how each layer is effected in each step. If not then all the questions your opponents end up asking will get you confused in the end as I once learned playing a u/w stax build at an open when sneak and show really started hitting popularity.
I don't know how clunky a repeatable, 5-mana basilisk collar spell would fit in the deck, but I haven't seen anyone bring up Vault of the Archangel. Just Wasteland fodder?
I don't know how clunky a repeatable, 5-mana basilisk collar spell would fit in the deck, but I haven't seen anyone bring up Vault of the Archangel. Just Wasteland fodder?
I ran it as a one of in my deck. worked well. might be able to up it to two but haven't tested it.
Also, at SCG StL I went 5-4. I played esper deathblade four times.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
i should play humility first so the virues still boost?
so lets say the layer is virtue humility virtue my tokens will be 2/2?
but in both cases it doesnt matter for the token player i guess since hardly ny opponent plays anthems so he will always have a 1/1. even an emrakul will be a 1/1 do nothing legendary crawler?
You're referring to timestamp order, not layers. Both have specific meaning for the game.
For the situation you describe, you have Humility, which works at Layer 6 (ability adding or removing effects) and 7B (P/T setting effects). You have two Intangible Virtues which work at Layer 7c (P/T changing effects that don't set). Since layers apply from lowest to highest, if you have a Lingering Souls spirit token in play, you will end up with a 3/3 vanilla creature. Layer 6 removes flying, Layer 7B makes it a 1/1, and Layer 7C gives it +1/+1 for each Virtue.
For an example of where timestamps matter, consider a situation where you have a Humility and a Mishra's Factory. If you activate the Factory, do you get a 1/1 or a 2/2? Both work in Layer 7B (P/T setting effects). In this case you would go by timestamp order which means you apply oldest to newest. So first Humility makes the Assembly-Worker a 1/1, but then the Factory ability makes it a 2/2 since it has a newer timestamp.
mykatdied is right. If you are playing Humility it is very important to understand layering.
I decided I need a fair deck. This deck seems fair(ish), so I decided on this one. (I actually just like tokens.) A few questions though.
-Why not a light green splash for DRS? It seems like the deck's high curve could utilize it, and it would help greatly in the combo match up. It would also further fix the mana, allowing procession to be cast easier.
[Edit]DRS Turned out great. You should run him. I like him at three so far.[/Edit]
-I don't play fair decks very often, so I am unfamiliar with jitte. I assume it is used as board control early, and as a late game finisher. Is this correct? Also, how has the change of legend rule affected the strategy behind using jitte in jitte mirrors?
-I did a little research, and found conflicting opinions on anthems such as intangible virtue. One camp seems to think they are win more, while the other camp sees them as way to break the P/T balance of token spells. Also, throughout the history of magic, every time tokens have been good, there was an anthem involved. LSV ran four Glorious Anthem in his Lrw_SoA standard deck, so I can't really think too low of them based off results. I am currently leaning strongly in favor of 4 Intangible Virtue, and maybe a few other ways to pump them (sorin?) I am willing to listen to the reasoning behind those who don't run them though.
[Edit]Anthems are great. I have no idea why I ever doubted them.[/Edit]
-Typically most token decks run 12-16 token producers. The best ones appear to be, in order of decreasing strength, Lingering Souls, Bitterblossom, and Spectral Procession. If I were to add token producers 12-16, what are the better options? Maybe sorin, since he also acts as an anthem?
-Stoneforge Mystic seems good. Running Jitte as a core card, why not add her? If I end up adding 3-4 what is a typical stoneforge package in this kind of deck? Currently I am leaning towards 2 Jitte, 1 Batterskull, and a sideboard SoFaF. Just because I have no clue, and that works for other decks.
[Edit]She tutors Jitte. Not very impressive in this deck.[/Edit]
-When is it appropiate to grab batterskull instead of jitte?
[Edit]Testing shows the answer is "never."[/Edit]
-Discard is the typical defense against combo decks, but how much is really needed? I like Cabal Therapy in TES, and in tokens I even get to flash it back, which should be fun :D. Currently I am thinking 4 IOK, 3 Cabal, with one cabal sideboard. Too much?
-Sorin looks good on paper. Have tokens? make an an emblem! Have no tokens? Make tokens! Have a lot of tokens, but can't break a stalemate? Ultimate! Anyone have any positive or negative experiences with him?
[/Edit]Sorin is okay. I like him at one.[/Edit]
-Lastly (for now anyways,) why is it called BW tokens, if the b is only a tiny splash? Shouldn't it be Wb Tokens?
[Edit]This is appearently because the 2009 standard version of the deck ran a lot more black cards, and as a result, the letters defaulted to alphebetical order, hence BW. The name just stuck.[/Edit]
My current theorycrafted tokens list for those who find it easier to critique when they have a list to actually critique:
I might have to test this out based purely on the ability to very effectively maindeck both Zealous Persecution and Humility, given some popular decks right now.
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4x doomed traveler
Enchantments - 10
4x Intangible virtue
4x bitterblossom
2x Humility
Sorcery - 10
4x lingering souls
4x cabal therapy
2x vindicate
4x enlightened tutor
4x zealous persecution
4x Midnight Haunting
2x dark blast
Lands - 22
4x scrubland
4x marsh flats
4x Isolated chapel
8 plains
2 swamps
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
1x Batterskull
Enchantments - 9
4x Intangible virtue
4x bitterblossom
1x Humility
Sorcery - 10
4x lingering souls
3x cabal therapy
3x inquisition of kozilek
4x enlightened tutor
3x zealous persecution
4x Midnight Haunting
4x raise the alarm
Lands - 22
4x scrubland
4x marsh flats
4x arid mesa
4x Isolated chapel
4x plains
2x swamps
Also not sure if I want 4x midnight haunting, or if I want a 2/2 split of that and spectral procession
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Your deck list contains only 57 cards... I've been toying around with this deck a bit and it's been frustrating to be defeated by my own casual R/G aggro deck using a similar build to your list. The problem I have with enlightened tutor is that it's a card disadvantage, sure you can get a single humility but that alone doesn't seem strong enough board strategy and is trying to compensate for the weaker points of this deck, i.e. having all 1/1 creatures on the board. Conversely, if your using the tutor package to retrieve bitterblossom or intangible virtue you are at an equal card disadvantage as previous example; when running 4x any card you shouldn't be tutoring for said card because the probability of drawing into it is that much greater. I do like stoneforge mystic in this build, creature and tutor in one: and ability to cheat in a batterskull and if you add umezawa's jitte to the package you'd have repeatable equipment with counters to abuse with all the disposable 1/1 tokens.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
You talk about balance between removal and discard and then run no removal.
Why run Chapel? There's no reason. Run Wasteland or
Factories.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
I never thought of jitte tbqh. Do you think 1 would be good enough to tutor up with E. Tutor? Or should i have two? The reason I had batterskull without SFM is because I figured it would be a late game beater if I needed it/didn't need it turn 3. I also worry if I add SFM to this that it slowly turns into stoneblade.
Ah that's what I forgot! I have 3 ghastly demise. I also currently have 2 StP in the sideboard (though I'm not sure if maybe PtE would be better for this deck)
The chapel is there to give me more mana fixing.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Jitte is just insane with tokens. Make two tokens, put the Jitte on one. Swing with it. The token dies and you get two counters. Equip the Jitte to another token. Now that token can be pumped to a 5/5 and you get another two counters to use next turn.
Don't play a subpar card because you don't want to be similar to another deck. Maybe play two Jitte? But even then you won't be drawing it as much as you'd like, because when you do draw it it'll be amazing. Especially if you had fliers.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
4 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Honor of the Pure
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Spells - 27
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Lingering Souls
2 Midnight Haunting
2 Spectral Procession
2 Entreat The Angels
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Wasteland
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Sundering Growth
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Humility
I'm thinking about taking out maybe 2 IoK for 2 Duress, and also input in general on my discard/removal.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
many create tokens each turn.in addition to blossom.
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What would be the best to take out for Elspeth or Sorin? I like them but trying to fit them is tricky.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
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Honor the pure + bitterblossom just doesn't work.
Also, your lack of batterskull concerns me.
back when I played the deck heavily I remember using planeswalkers and hating them. I looked back at my list rather recently and wanted to improve it. This is what I got:
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Wasteland
2 Karakas
4 Bitterblossom
3 Vindicate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Humility
4 Intangible Virtue
1 Batterskull
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Spectral Procession
3 Raise the Alarm
I highly recommend this list (as well as maindeck humility to deal with annoying creatures)
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
Nope, power and toughness setting abilities are applied in the layering affect before altering power and toughness abilities so your tokens get the boosts.
I ran it as a one of in my deck. worked well. might be able to up it to two but haven't tested it.
Also, at SCG StL I went 5-4. I played esper deathblade four times.
Legacy:
combo elves
Modern:
White Rock (41-24-4 in matches. Beginning 10/14/14. Last updated 1/2/15)
List:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Siege Rhino
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
Spells - 20
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
1 slaughter pact
1 path to exile
1 Disfigure
1 damnation
3 lingering souls
NCP - 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bow of Nylea
4 verdant Catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 windswept heath
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 Treetop Village
2 stirring wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Thrun, the last troll
2 Duress
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Back to nature
1 Utter End
1 Golgari Charm
You're referring to timestamp order, not layers. Both have specific meaning for the game.
For a primer on layers see this article on the mothership. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=judge/article/20091105a
For the situation you describe, you have Humility, which works at Layer 6 (ability adding or removing effects) and 7B (P/T setting effects). You have two Intangible Virtues which work at Layer 7c (P/T changing effects that don't set). Since layers apply from lowest to highest, if you have a Lingering Souls spirit token in play, you will end up with a 3/3 vanilla creature. Layer 6 removes flying, Layer 7B makes it a 1/1, and Layer 7C gives it +1/+1 for each Virtue.
For an example of where timestamps matter, consider a situation where you have a Humility and a Mishra's Factory. If you activate the Factory, do you get a 1/1 or a 2/2? Both work in Layer 7B (P/T setting effects). In this case you would go by timestamp order which means you apply oldest to newest. So first Humility makes the Assembly-Worker a 1/1, but then the Factory ability makes it a 2/2 since it has a newer timestamp.
mykatdied is right. If you are playing Humility it is very important to understand layering.
-Why not a light green splash for DRS? It seems like the deck's high curve could utilize it, and it would help greatly in the combo match up. It would also further fix the mana, allowing procession to be cast easier.
[Edit]DRS Turned out great. You should run him. I like him at three so far.[/Edit]
-I don't play fair decks very often, so I am unfamiliar with jitte. I assume it is used as board control early, and as a late game finisher. Is this correct? Also, how has the change of legend rule affected the strategy behind using jitte in jitte mirrors?
-I did a little research, and found conflicting opinions on anthems such as intangible virtue. One camp seems to think they are win more, while the other camp sees them as way to break the P/T balance of token spells. Also, throughout the history of magic, every time tokens have been good, there was an anthem involved. LSV ran four Glorious Anthem in his Lrw_SoA standard deck, so I can't really think too low of them based off results. I am currently leaning strongly in favor of 4 Intangible Virtue, and maybe a few other ways to pump them (sorin?) I am willing to listen to the reasoning behind those who don't run them though.
[Edit]Anthems are great. I have no idea why I ever doubted them.[/Edit]
-Typically most token decks run 12-16 token producers. The best ones appear to be, in order of decreasing strength, Lingering Souls, Bitterblossom, and Spectral Procession. If I were to add token producers 12-16, what are the better options? Maybe sorin, since he also acts as an anthem?
-Stoneforge Mystic seems good. Running Jitte as a core card, why not add her? If I end up adding 3-4 what is a typical stoneforge package in this kind of deck? Currently I am leaning towards 2 Jitte, 1 Batterskull, and a sideboard SoFaF. Just because I have no clue, and that works for other decks.
[Edit]She tutors Jitte. Not very impressive in this deck.[/Edit]
-When is it appropiate to grab batterskull instead of jitte?
[Edit]Testing shows the answer is "never."[/Edit]
-Discard is the typical defense against combo decks, but how much is really needed? I like Cabal Therapy in TES, and in tokens I even get to flash it back, which should be fun :D. Currently I am thinking 4 IOK, 3 Cabal, with one cabal sideboard. Too much?
-Sorin looks good on paper. Have tokens? make an an emblem! Have no tokens? Make tokens! Have a lot of tokens, but can't break a stalemate? Ultimate! Anyone have any positive or negative experiences with him?
[/Edit]Sorin is okay. I like him at one.[/Edit]
-Lastly (for now anyways,) why is it called BW tokens, if the b is only a tiny splash? Shouldn't it be Wb Tokens?
[Edit]This is appearently because the 2009 standard version of the deck ran a lot more black cards, and as a result, the letters defaulted to alphebetical order, hence BW. The name just stuck.[/Edit]
My current theorycrafted tokens list for those who find it easier to critique when they have a list to actually critique:
4 Scrubland
3 Fetid Heath
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
8 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Lingering Souls
4 Bitterblossom
4 Spectral Procession
3 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4 Intangible Virtue
STONEFORGE
4 Stoneforege Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plawshares
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cabal Therapy
DISCLAIMER: Pure theorycraft right now. Because I just like posting decklists.
[Edit]Upon testing, the list above was shown to suck.[/Edit]
Edit
Well, it has been a week or so now, so I am just gonna subscribe to this thread and hope someone replies one day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams