it kind of sucks that there's really no point in splashing black anymore. now the builds are a lot more predictable... since UWg seems a lot better, it'll kill faster even without wrath of god protection
i just got done foiling out my 4color sliver deck. this REALLY pisses me off!
just a few months ago i completely foil/pimped out my vintage flash deck.. 2 weeks later everything was restricted!
WTF?! i keep tring to pimp out a deck that i really enjoy and think will be competitive for a long time, and then this crap happens... rules change.
DAMN YOU WIZARDS!!!!
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1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Does anyone think Bant Charm could be good in here? Stops powerful artifacts, removes any troublesome creature, and counters stuff.
Also, can any of the other newer slivers be of any help. Gemhide is alright, but he is kind of counterproductive.
I've been toying around with a Ward Sliver, but of course you'd need some mana accel or to wait a few turns with the vial. However, a resolved Ward is win against goblins and most other mono decks.
Again, if you want to suggest a sliver for the deck I suggest it be 3 mana or less and inside the colors. A five mana sliver seems to be bad because it's so slow. Sure if you get it in against a swarm of goblins on turn 5 you're lucky because they run rishadan port and wasteland, two cards that wreck this decks manabase. And on turn 5 the goblin player could be alpha striking with SGC tokens, piledrivers, and warchiefs FTW or even before that goblins is extremely fast
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
If Ward Sliver only cost 4 mana, it still wouldn't be playable.
Talon Sliver > Goblins and only costs 2 mana. You shouldn't be losing to Goblins very often anyway.
Also, Burrenton Forge-Tender is a terrific sideboard option against Goblins and various other decks. I can tell you from experience that it owns Goblins.
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
Been rocking this deck for a long time, but with m10 rules update, I am looking to revamp it, and obviously drop Hibernation (RIP).
One reason I love this deck, is playing in the GP Atlanta legacy side event, I beat mono red burn, by mulling to 3 on the play. Winning the game put me in the top 8.
I don't know any of other deck that could have won with 3 cards. I kept Island, Tundra, Brainstorm.
Brainstorm reveled Sinew/Sinew/Crystalline.
Anyways, back to updates.
The obvious choice would be to straight up replace him with plated sliver, and adjust my mana base to 3 color.
Has anyone tried a list with less than 18 slivers?
Changes I plan on testing are all (-3 Hibernation)
+3 Plated (Seems weak)
+3 Goyf (Hes proven to be a super bomb, and you can always STP him to save your own ass, which usually isnt an option with Crystalline out)
+2 Top / +1 CB (Top would fix draws, which I do miss with standstill over ponder)
+3 Ponder (Dosen't feel right to drop dudes for this though)
+2 Shackles +1 Winged Sliver (Seems like we can take advantage of shackles with so many islands)
...
Looking at the new bant decks, they get away with 3 Daze / 3 STP / 2 ponder. I might give that a try with my standstill build.
Any other suggestions, from people with experience with the deck?
I haven't actually given up on Hibernation Sliver yet, despite my earlier negative reaction to the new M10 rules.
Hibernation Sliver is still pretty useful for its ability to semi-protect your slivers from targeted removal and sweepers. In certain matchups, Hibernation Sliver is actually the most valuable sliver in the deck.
We might be able to make up for the loss of "damage on the stack" trickery with Talon Sliver. I wouldn't run more than 2 or 3 of them. You could do something like:
-1 Hibernation Sliver
-1 something else
+2 Talon Sliver
Just played UWb slivers at my local tournament yesterday, for the last time under the pre-M10 rules. There were 19 people. I went 4-0-1, splitting T2. Beat BW Aggro, Scepter-Chant, Merfolk, and a Natural Order/Progenitus deck.
The random Talon Sliver was pretty good the few times I drew it. I might bump it up to two.
I'm going to stick with UWb for a while, at least until I'm convinced that the loss of "damage on the stack" trickery with Hibernation Sliver is crippling. I'm not sure that it is.
the only good thing i see when we run UWb is hand disruption, but we pretty much have a good counterspell shell in the deck.
is there any way we can run virulent sliver if G was ran? or poison got nerf because of the new combat stack rules?
That'd be a plus for Stilysh points! :D. But for a competitive matter, this will be a slow down on the deck strategy which is growing up power and protecting your critters while you do that.
So, it'll a drop that won't affect the board at your favor.
we can also run Quick Sliver, making it a draw-go sliver
I guess the only benefits are:
1) you can put 2-3 Harmonic Sliver MD
2) raise your aggro power, being a sliver instead of an artifact.
3) Better draw than vial, when neither were in your opening hand, or drawn on your first turn.
Vial let you:
1) Double Drop
2) Avoid counters (countertop specially).
perhaps the biggest concern about running it instead of vial, is that you can't get over the countertop lock, and if you face a board with Blood Moon t1 and can't counter, you just concede, while with Vial, you have a chance to still keep playing the critters.
Not sure, i guess you can give it a shot, depending what you usually face.
How we can fix the land base to avoid wasteland/blood moon things?
I'm testing this mana base, which seems to give me a better MU vs such cards (but still not much testing so far - 4 games vs Stompy by now, and got mana screwed just 1 game lacking an island)
About Talon. Instead of taking first strike, wouldn't be better to drop their creatures power/toughtness with Sidewinder Sliver? (flanking is cumulative, so 2 out, -2/-2)
Has any one tried Lim-Dul's Vault in the UWB build because it is good as a tutor in other decks that run it
I can't think of any mainstream decks that run Lim-Dul's Vault. It's card disadvantage, and the complicated casting cost makes it kinda clunky. It is instant speed, though, so at least it's got that going for it.
It was played on me in a painter servant deck he used it as a tutor to pull up grindstone so i was thinking a thing like that would help get the card we need to win wether in be winged sliver or something else but it might be too hard to cast in most builds due to the fact it dose need BU to cast. The only type of sliver deck i could seen it in was a build like yours
How much does a good sliver deck cost? I want to build more legacy decks but can't afford 500-600 dollars right now to make crazy decks.
Sorry to say, if you're starting from scratch, it ain't gonna be cheap. Most of the expense is in the manabase. Ideally, you want ~7 fetchlands and ~7 dual lands. Throw in 2 or 3 Mutavaults, and you're talking upwards of $450 just for the lands. Add another $100 for 4x Force of Will. Add another $60 for the rest of the deck. All in all, you're looking at about $600.
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if not think about more counters out of the board or ghostway, counters being the better idea
maybe path of negations would be good? another free-ish counterspell
i just got done foiling out my 4color sliver deck. this REALLY pisses me off!
just a few months ago i completely foil/pimped out my vintage flash deck.. 2 weeks later everything was restricted!
WTF?! i keep tring to pimp out a deck that i really enjoy and think will be competitive for a long time, and then this crap happens... rules change.
DAMN YOU WIZARDS!!!!
as for Pact, useless til turn 5, making for bad counters, if you need more try Foil, helps alot
Also, can any of the other newer slivers be of any help. Gemhide is alright, but he is kind of counterproductive.
I've been toying around with a Ward Sliver, but of course you'd need some mana accel or to wait a few turns with the vial. However, a resolved Ward is win against goblins and most other mono decks.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Talon Sliver > Goblins and only costs 2 mana. You shouldn't be losing to Goblins very often anyway.
Also, Burrenton Forge-Tender is a terrific sideboard option against Goblins and various other decks. I can tell you from experience that it owns Goblins.
But boy, I sure love its art.
3 Hibernation Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
Been rocking this deck for a long time, but with m10 rules update, I am looking to revamp it, and obviously drop Hibernation (RIP).
One reason I love this deck, is playing in the GP Atlanta legacy side event, I beat mono red burn, by mulling to 3 on the play. Winning the game put me in the top 8.
I don't know any of other deck that could have won with 3 cards. I kept Island, Tundra, Brainstorm.
Brainstorm reveled Sinew/Sinew/Crystalline.
Anyways, back to updates.
The obvious choice would be to straight up replace him with plated sliver, and adjust my mana base to 3 color.
Has anyone tried a list with less than 18 slivers?
Changes I plan on testing are all (-3 Hibernation)
+3 Plated (Seems weak)
+3 Goyf (Hes proven to be a super bomb, and you can always STP him to save your own ass, which usually isnt an option with Crystalline out)
+2 Top / +1 CB (Top would fix draws, which I do miss with standstill over ponder)
+3 Ponder (Dosen't feel right to drop dudes for this though)
+2 Shackles +1 Winged Sliver (Seems like we can take advantage of shackles with so many islands)
...
Looking at the new bant decks, they get away with 3 Daze / 3 STP / 2 ponder. I might give that a try with my standstill build.
Any other suggestions, from people with experience with the deck?
the only good thing i see when we run UWb is hand disruption, but we pretty much have a good counterspell shell in the deck.
is there any way we can run virulent sliver if G was ran? or poison got nerf because of the new combat stack rules?
we can also run quick sliver, making it a draw-go sliver
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
*Points at aether vial*
Hibernation Sliver is still pretty useful for its ability to semi-protect your slivers from targeted removal and sweepers. In certain matchups, Hibernation Sliver is actually the most valuable sliver in the deck.
We might be able to make up for the loss of "damage on the stack" trickery with Talon Sliver. I wouldn't run more than 2 or 3 of them. You could do something like:
-1 Hibernation Sliver
-1 something else
+2 Talon Sliver
Do you understand what "All slivers have defender" means?
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Aether Vial
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
3 Hibernation Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
1 Talon Sliver
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Annul
3 Spell Snare
3 Path to Exile
2 Perish
The random Talon Sliver was pretty good the few times I drew it. I might bump it up to two.
I'm going to stick with UWb for a while, at least until I'm convinced that the loss of "damage on the stack" trickery with Hibernation Sliver is crippling. I'm not sure that it is.
That'd be a plus for Stilysh points! :D. But for a competitive matter, this will be a slow down on the deck strategy which is growing up power and protecting your critters while you do that.
So, it'll a drop that won't affect the board at your favor.
I guess the only benefits are:
1) you can put 2-3 Harmonic Sliver MD
2) raise your aggro power, being a sliver instead of an artifact.
3) Better draw than vial, when neither were in your opening hand, or drawn on your first turn.
Vial let you:
1) Double Drop
2) Avoid counters (countertop specially).
perhaps the biggest concern about running it instead of vial, is that you can't get over the countertop lock, and if you face a board with Blood Moon t1 and can't counter, you just concede, while with Vial, you have a chance to still keep playing the critters.
Not sure, i guess you can give it a shot, depending what you usually face.
How we can fix the land base to avoid wasteland/blood moon things?
I'm testing this mana base, which seems to give me a better MU vs such cards (but still not much testing so far - 4 games vs Stompy by now, and got mana screwed just 1 game lacking an island)
03 Windswept Heath
05 island
04 plains
02 forest
What you guys think, risky?
About Talon. Instead of taking first strike, wouldn't be better to drop their creatures power/toughtness with Sidewinder Sliver? (flanking is cumulative, so 2 out, -2/-2)
I can't think of any mainstream decks that run Lim-Dul's Vault. It's card disadvantage, and the complicated casting cost makes it kinda clunky. It is instant speed, though, so at least it's got that going for it.
Sorry to say, if you're starting from scratch, it ain't gonna be cheap. Most of the expense is in the manabase. Ideally, you want ~7 fetchlands and ~7 dual lands. Throw in 2 or 3 Mutavaults, and you're talking upwards of $450 just for the lands. Add another $100 for 4x Force of Will. Add another $60 for the rest of the deck. All in all, you're looking at about $600.