Better depends on the rest of the deck. Sarkhan's deck is well suited to abuse Inkmoth. Inkmoth can get around Humility (and Moat if it's used), and at the same time can make use of Batterskull and Elspeth for a faster win. In my more traditional build (that really needs updating) Factory's probably still better.
I agree with everything in this post. If you don't have a way to abuse poison, Inkmoth is definitely worse than Mishra's Factory.
What you don't want to do is split your deck up too much between winning via damage and winning via poison. You're generally better off concentrating on a single path.
Exactly. Splitting up win conditions leads to lost matches. Getting them to 6 poison and 4 life doesn't win games. Focus on a single attack strategy and go from there.
For my first time ever playing Stax, I feel like the deck did what I wanted it to do. I mulled this over with some of my friends and came up with a few interesting suggestions. One was to cut the Karn for a second Karakas. This seems fine but I haven't had a bad experience with Karn that would justify removing him from the deck just yet. Karn won me a match, Karakas Didn't. Obviously I was new to Chalice of the Void, and that won't happen again. If you can't afford a Tabernacle, or don't know anyone who will let you borrow, I would cut that in favor of a second Karakas.
How useful was the Tabernacle for you? I've liked how my Magi give creatures fits, but I can't justify getting a Tabernacle for just one deck, plus I hate the natural inconsistency of using a single copy of anything in a deck with no tutors.
How useful was the Tabernacle for you? I've liked how my Magi give creatures fits, but I can't justify getting a Tabernacle for just one deck, plus I hate the natural inconsistency of using a single copy of anything in a deck with no tutors.
I'd also like to know about this. Was it super necessary?
How useful was the Tabernacle for you? I've liked how my Magi give creatures fits, but I can't justify getting a Tabernacle for just one deck, plus I hate the natural inconsistency of using a single copy of anything in a deck with no tutors.
So I noticed from your Sig. Tabernacle was great, but not necessary. I did get to live the dream of casting Armageddon and then dropping Tabernacle to wrath the board. Magus wasnt going to make the cut because he kills himself if I resolve an Armageddon. Tabernacle put a serious dent in a lot of peoples plans. With Ghostly prison and/or Trinisphere it meant that they were either attacking, or casting a spell, but not both. Prohibiting players from casting new spells or prohibiting them from attacking gave me huge advantages. Over the course of the day it managed to kill 3 Delvers, 5 Nimble Mongoose, Inkwell Leviathan, 2 Tarmogoyf, Platinum Emperion, 3 Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull Germ, and 2 Emrakul. I'd say it did its job and maybe put in some overtime.
I can't say I would endorse buying or trading for a $300 card, but if you already have one, I don't see how using it could cause any harm. All it did for me was make sure I won the game. No Big Deal. So while the deck didn't really rely on getting a Tabernacle, if you have one, I suggest you put it in the deck.
Mox Diamonds, Crucibles, and Flagstones give me 10-11 maindeck ways to keep Magus alive post-geddon. Other than that, I get what you're saying. Thanks!
Mox Diamonds, Crucibles, and Flagstones give me 10-11 maindeck ways to keep Magus alive post-geddon. Other than that, I get what you're saying. Thanks!
I use all of those too, but not everytime I needed to Geddon did I have one of those out
about the Inkmoth and humility question... i had a judge about 2 months ago tell me that how the layering works that inkmoth looses its flying and infect. the only reason that mishra's factory stats a 2/2 is because of the s/t. It would actually loose its ability to tap for +1/+1 while it is a creature.
about the Inkmoth and humility question... i had a judge about 2 months ago tell me that how the layering works that inkmoth looses its flying and infect. the only reason that mishra's factory stats a 2/2 is because of the s/t. It would actually loose its ability to tap for +1/+1 while it is a creature.
I don't know which judge told you that, but they are wrong. If you activate a manland after humility has resolved, it will gain whatever abilities that come along with its activation (such as the flying and infect from Inkmoth). The reason Mishra's Factory loses the ability to pump is because it's not an ability granted by the activation. Mishra's Factory has that ability regardless of it being a creature or not. So when it activates, humility swipes the ability. If, hypothetically Factory happened to give itself flying when it activated (it doesn't but lets pretend it does for a moment) then it would be a 2/2 the flies.
So the inkmoths are 1/1 flying artifact creatures with infect even with humility out? Wow good thing that judge called it wrong. It's no like my opponent lost because of it or anything
you only have 1 way to draw a card and unless you got both Crucible AND your singleton Canopy, it may as well not exist.
Also, the life loss from tapping canopy and Ancient Tomb adds up faster than you think. Timely reinforcements gives you that life back and gives you chump blockers and sac fodder. It's pretty boss. Try it out. I also found out that 4 Armageddon is definitely the wrong number. Armageddon isn't really a threat
Yeah, I'm not sure how much of your choices are due to availability, but I'd make some tweaks as well though perhaps for other reasons. For example, I only run 3 Magus because 1 often does the trick, and 2 are hard for us to maintain especially after a Geddon. You have four cards that I'd consider "finishers" at the cost of certain cards I really want to see a lot of, such as Ghostly Prison and Crucible. It really depends on if you want to take the deck in a more controlling or a more aggressive direction. =)
i haven't recently made my stax deck mono white and wanna see what you guys think, i'm thinking of replacing Wrath of God with another armageddon and magus, but still think it may be nesscary, anyway tell me what you guys think
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
4 City 3 Tomb seems odd, especially with only three Crucibles. 23 land also seems low with all the 4-drops and WW spells. You've taken the standard list and gone in several new directions (Tangle Wire, Wrath, Zuran Orb). It looks interesting, but perhaps less consistent due to all the 2-ofs.
IMO pick a way to control creatures and stick with it. Ghostly Prisons are better in multiples, so 0 or 4 seems to be the right number.
Note I've never played with Tangle Wire, so I'm not really sure how it plays out in a shell like this.
I played this deck last weekend in a 14 man tourney and took first place, it's not close to optimal but Chalice for one hosed all the decks I met.
Hero of Bladehold is a beast and a beating and Stoneforge turn one almost always ensured a win.
The singleton Lightning Greaves won me game or two too, as hitting with Hero just as it hit the table helped a lot. Of course this was a very small tourney but it was a blast to play nevertheless.
Switch out a Batterskull with a Ghostly Prison as four are not really needed.
Does anyone think, that a white Stax deck with SFM could be viable?
I played four of them in my stax deck, with Mox Diamond you can put one in play turn one. It's quite insane when you land a turn two uncountrable Batterskull. Even having him turn two after a Chalice for one turn one is nuts.
I don't like it for two reasons: too many slots taken up just to get a Batterskull out, and Chalice/Trinisphere/Suppression Field makes the entire strategy worse.
P.S. Suppression Field should be awesome against Maverick. Everything they do is an activated ability. +2 to fetch, +2 to protect with Mom, +2 to switch land with Knight, +2 to blow up our permanents with Pridemage. Has anyone playtested that matchup?
@IWI: I admit that's a powerful move, and it's reminiscent of attacking with Exalted Angel for an 8-pt life swing on turn 2. And to be honest, it makes more sense in your more aggressive build. That said, I generally prefer a more controlling role with the deck so I'd probably prefer to lay lock pieces for the first few turns.
Why not just run Cursed Totem as well? Then they can't much you out of the game with Pridemage or muck your Manabase with Knight. Field will hit their Planeswalkers and stuff, sure, but Cursed Totem shuts them out of the game.
-Matt
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm your Huckleberry." - Doc Holliday
"You're like the nicest person on the forum!" -Maicol
Cursed Totem in addition to Sup Field might make sense depending on your meta. However, stuff like Supp Field is always relevant against fetch-heavy decks like RUG and Stoneblade whereas Totem is quite a bit weaker there. In the end, you only have 75 slots. =)
Cursed Totem in addition to Sup Field might make sense depending on your meta. However, stuff like Supp Field is always relevant against fetch-heavy decks like RUG and Stoneblade whereas Totem is quite a bit weaker there. In the end, you only have 75 slots. =)
I do see your point about wanting to lock up the board, but against most decks you only need one single lock piece. I think Cursed Totem vs. Sup. Field really depends on your meta. Cursed Totem also stops Elves which is worth considering.
If you land a Trinisphere turn one you can also play a SFM turn two because you have the mana, it's never a problem and your opponent can't answer it because they're most likely locked out.
I've tested SFM in my Stax deck. it's pretty awesome, especially when you have 4 maindeck Batterskull. The deck ramps quickly enough to be able to hardcast them after tutoring them with SFM.
This is much more consistent now and maze of iths have been really helping a lot, and smokestack has been doing much better with more permanents on the board to sack.
The problem with white stax though is it gets owned pretty bad by deeds, I'm thinking of putting ratchet bomb main board for 1 or 2 drops though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: B 8Rack RX Goblins BG Elves (Attempting) UBW Mill G Stompy UB Tezzerator
Legacy: W Stax
This is much more consistent now and maze of iths have been really helping a lot, and smokestack has been doing much better with more permanents on the board to sack.
The problem with white stax though is it gets owned pretty bad by deeds, I'm thinking of putting ratchet bomb main board for 1 or 2 drops though.
You got turn one Chalice of the Void and turn one Trinisphere, I don't really see the point in Ratchet Bombs. They'd be dead draws most of the time. Also, four of every card leaves you with a lot of dead draws. A lot of cards that you don't really want more than one of during the game.
I agree with everything in this post. If you don't have a way to abuse poison, Inkmoth is definitely worse than Mishra's Factory.
Exactly. Splitting up win conditions leads to lost matches. Getting them to 6 poison and 4 life doesn't win games. Focus on a single attack strategy and go from there.
For my first time ever playing Stax, I feel like the deck did what I wanted it to do. I mulled this over with some of my friends and came up with a few interesting suggestions. One was to cut the Karn for a second Karakas. This seems fine but I haven't had a bad experience with Karn that would justify removing him from the deck just yet. Karn won me a match, Karakas Didn't. Obviously I was new to Chalice of the Void, and that won't happen again. If you can't afford a Tabernacle, or don't know anyone who will let you borrow, I would cut that in favor of a second Karakas.
Ex-DCI Level 1 judge
Ex-Rules Advisor
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I'd also like to know about this. Was it super necessary?
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
So I noticed from your Sig. Tabernacle was great, but not necessary. I did get to live the dream of casting Armageddon and then dropping Tabernacle to wrath the board. Magus wasnt going to make the cut because he kills himself if I resolve an Armageddon. Tabernacle put a serious dent in a lot of peoples plans. With Ghostly prison and/or Trinisphere it meant that they were either attacking, or casting a spell, but not both. Prohibiting players from casting new spells or prohibiting them from attacking gave me huge advantages. Over the course of the day it managed to kill 3 Delvers, 5 Nimble Mongoose, Inkwell Leviathan, 2 Tarmogoyf, Platinum Emperion, 3 Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull Germ, and 2 Emrakul. I'd say it did its job and maybe put in some overtime.
I can't say I would endorse buying or trading for a $300 card, but if you already have one, I don't see how using it could cause any harm. All it did for me was make sure I won the game. No Big Deal. So while the deck didn't really rely on getting a Tabernacle, if you have one, I suggest you put it in the deck.
Ex-DCI Level 1 judge
Ex-Rules Advisor
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I use all of those too, but not everytime I needed to Geddon did I have one of those out
Ex-DCI Level 1 judge
Ex-Rules Advisor
:symr::symw::symu:Patriot Blade:symu::symw::symr:
:symb::symg:Cherri:0mana:s:symg::symb:
I don't know which judge told you that, but they are wrong. If you activate a manland after humility has resolved, it will gain whatever abilities that come along with its activation (such as the flying and infect from Inkmoth). The reason Mishra's Factory loses the ability to pump is because it's not an ability granted by the activation. Mishra's Factory has that ability regardless of it being a creature or not. So when it activates, humility swipes the ability. If, hypothetically Factory happened to give itself flying when it activated (it doesn't but lets pretend it does for a moment) then it would be a 2/2 the flies.
Ex-DCI Level 1 judge
Ex-Rules Advisor
:symr::symw::symu:Patriot Blade:symu::symw::symr:
:symb::symg:Cherri:0mana:s:symg::symb:
-1 Armageddon
-1 Magus
-1 Wasteland
+1 Horizon Canopy
+2 Timely Reinforcements
you only have 1 way to draw a card and unless you got both Crucible AND your singleton Canopy, it may as well not exist.
Also, the life loss from tapping canopy and Ancient Tomb adds up faster than you think. Timely reinforcements gives you that life back and gives you chump blockers and sac fodder. It's pretty boss. Try it out. I also found out that 4 Armageddon is definitely the wrong number. Armageddon isn't really a threat
Ex-DCI Level 1 judge
Ex-Rules Advisor
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
1x Zuran Orb
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Trinisphere
4x Tangle Wire
4x Mox Diamond
4x Smokestack
2x Magus of the Tabernacle
Enchantments
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Oblivion Ring
Land
3x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Mishra's Factory
4x City of Traitors
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Wasteland
6x Plains
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells
3x Armageddon
2x Wrath of God
i haven't recently made my stax deck mono white and wanna see what you guys think, i'm thinking of replacing Wrath of God with another armageddon and magus, but still think it may be nesscary, anyway tell me what you guys think
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
IMO pick a way to control creatures and stick with it. Ghostly Prisons are better in multiples, so 0 or 4 seems to be the right number.
Note I've never played with Tangle Wire, so I'm not really sure how it plays out in a shell like this.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Hero of Bladehold is a beast and a beating and Stoneforge turn one almost always ensured a win.
The singleton Lightning Greaves won me game or two too, as hitting with Hero just as it hit the table helped a lot. Of course this was a very small tourney but it was a blast to play nevertheless.
Switch out a Batterskull with a Ghostly Prison as four are not really needed.
Sideboard:
I played four of them in my stax deck, with Mox Diamond you can put one in play turn one. It's quite insane when you land a turn two uncountrable Batterskull. Even having him turn two after a Chalice for one turn one is nuts.
P.S. Suppression Field should be awesome against Maverick. Everything they do is an activated ability. +2 to fetch, +2 to protect with Mom, +2 to switch land with Knight, +2 to blow up our permanents with Pridemage. Has anyone playtested that matchup?
@IWI: I admit that's a powerful move, and it's reminiscent of attacking with Exalted Angel for an 8-pt life swing on turn 2. And to be honest, it makes more sense in your more aggressive build. That said, I generally prefer a more controlling role with the deck so I'd probably prefer to lay lock pieces for the first few turns.
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
-Matt
Legacy:
Thanks to SGT Chubbs for the sig
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I do see your point about wanting to lock up the board, but against most decks you only need one single lock piece. I think Cursed Totem vs. Sup. Field really depends on your meta. Cursed Totem also stops Elves which is worth considering.
If you land a Trinisphere turn one you can also play a SFM turn two because you have the mana, it's never a problem and your opponent can't answer it because they're most likely locked out.
1x Zuran Orb
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Trinisphere
4x Tangle Wire
4x Mox Diamond
4x Smokestack
2x Magus of the Tabernacle
Enchantments
4x Ghostly Prison
Land
2x Flagstones of Trokair
3x Mishra's Factory
4x City of Traitors
3x Ancient Tomb
4x Wasteland
5x Plains
2x Maze of ith
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells
4x Armageddon
-2 O Rings
-1 Plains
-1 Factory
-1 Flag Stones
-2 ***
+1 Wasteland
+2 Maze of Ith
+2 Ghostly Prism
+1 Crucible
+1 Armageddon
This is much more consistent now and maze of iths have been really helping a lot, and smokestack has been doing much better with more permanents on the board to sack.
The problem with white stax though is it gets owned pretty bad by deeds, I'm thinking of putting ratchet bomb main board for 1 or 2 drops though.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax
You got turn one Chalice of the Void and turn one Trinisphere, I don't really see the point in Ratchet Bombs. They'd be dead draws most of the time. Also, four of every card leaves you with a lot of dead draws. A lot of cards that you don't really want more than one of during the game.
Modern:
B 8Rack
RX Goblins
BG Elves (Attempting)
UBW Mill
G Stompy
UB Tezzerator
Legacy:
W Stax