I want to express my thanks for your comments and aided help Rood. I would like your straight up opinion on which color schemes you would run on a constant basis.
My trouble points are Goblins and Zoo right now, and to be frank I need to learn the routes of Dreadstill a little deeper....the Primer just isn't cutting it for me (vs my areas of trouble) on this thread.
Thanks again Rood, I look forward to reading your thoughts, and please feel free to PM if you would like to extend further help to one of the most competitive mages on this site...I don't ask often for it...but I know when to set down pride and take someone's hand so to speak if that will guide me to the light.
S.M.
The list looks pretty decent. Singleton Mountains or Plains are pretty bad in Dreadstill and if you were to run them I'd say SB them at most. If you're that worried about Wasteland we do run 6 stifle effects mainboard and potentially needles postboard. I think if you're splashing for pyroblast/REB you want at least 3-4 in the board, especially after High Tide dominating as of late. I've never been crazy of the Jace/Peacekeeper idea as I feel the mana tax it gives you is pretty brutalizing. I realize how powerful Peacekeeper is against Merfolk but I feel like postboard that matchup should already be pretty good for us. The board has to be geared right now to face midrange style decks (Junk, etc) as well as random combo (Painter, High tide etc). I feel like the meta is taking a drastic shift and pretty soon CB/Top matchups will be common again.
Bleh, Esper list did terrible in testing. Don't know what I was thinking there. Looks like i'm back to testing red/white with everyone else. Here is my list. I think I may finally found what I'm looking for.
I actually have a lot of merit regarding these quotes. I played against Higginbottom at that event R1 and against Caffrey R6. I'm also in the T8 for that Vestal event with Landstill (Chris).
His deck is BUG tempo.dec, which happened to feature dreadnought. I'm telling you it's nothing like Dreadstill. He just happened to toss in D-Nought because he's got good cards around it (stifle, cheap counters, CA in bob, etc).
Caffrey really is the man. His analysis is pretty solid here.
****
I'm thinking about how I "buy in" to Dreadstill, since Landstill overlaps most of the cards. Prices constantly increasing is not good. While Dreadnought himself went down slightly, stuff like Seas are increasing daily. My only pet peeve with the deck is that Landstill > Dreadstill, so it's hard mentally shifting to a deck I've eaten alive in the past. Nevertheless, dreadnought's 12/12 trampling frame closes out games significantly better than Landstill can....and I'm getting tired of not being able to close out games in a timely fashion.
Regarding Dreadstill in general, I think black is the mandatory second color. I'm sure Rood would disagree with me, but look at the top reasons to go black: 1) Perish, the mvp SB option for control-ish decks 2) Bob...undeniable card advantage, and 3) cheapremoval
The 3rd color debate should really be over R or W. Red has REB/Firespout/Grim+Collar, which are all solid options...but they don't compare to black. White has STP/PTE/Canonist/Peacekeeper/E.tutor....the most realistic and enticing options being the removal. I also find white to pale next to black. UBx is where this deck is at right now. Going UBr or UBw is probably equal in the long run. To me, it's a matter of costs/card I own.
I skip Green entirely because it's just a sub-par option. Goyf isn't needed in the deck. If you feel otherwise, you're waaaay better off running Higginbottom's BUG tempo deck and calling it a day.
*The real debate I'm having is whether or not Jace 2.0 is needed here. I'm by no means debating the card's power. However, if you knock out even 2 slots in the deck, you're creating an inefficiency. I'm not sure what Jace replaces in lists.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
It doesn't really matter which color whether it be Urx or Ubx to be honest Warden. The true key here is to make sure your Dreadstill list is featuring one of these two colors. If it's not then you might want to reconsider, these colors are absolutely insane in Dreadstill right now.
I think I finally found a list that flows and has good matchups vs a good portion of the meta.
My B/r/w list packs an amazing punch vs fish. Its amazing how you can remove two cards from your deck and its ruins your deck in certain matchups. I am hereby pledging to never run less than 2 trickbind in my deck.
Grim lavamancer is amazing vs aggro/fish turn one. My enlightened tutors allow me to assemble combos eariler. In the aggro/fish environment, trinketmage was just too slow. Basilisk collar has been awesome as well. I hate those situations where you land a dreadnaught but your opponent can race you. Basilisk collar has helped alot in that regard.
I am missing factory however... If possible I would love to work 3 of the back in but I don't how at this time,
Honestly if fish are giving you problems, run it Ur. I've played both ends of the Ur Vs. Fish and it's about 70/30 post board. I'd suggest a board similar to:
Ok another tournament today. Just a small 10 man most of whom I knew. I have adjusted my B/r/w accordingly. Please comment, anybody else running R/W have any info to share?
Anyone have any experience with Sphere of resistance? I'm considering running one in my sideboard possibly in the cannoness slot. Any advice?
I think some people are running lavamancers MD rather than in the sideboard.
Also: Blood Moon? Isn't that like a self-hose with the lands that we play?
For Ur version only, and yes it hurts us but it hurts problematic mu's like loam based decks far, far more than us. Plus if you bring in pyroblast/bolts the extra red sources help a lot, not to mention bolts should give enough reach to win without dreadnought if you can keep the board clear against some of these mu's.
Plus if you stick with fetching duals blood moon can nix islandwalking late game.
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Trade thread under reconstruction. Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
It doesn't really matter which color whether it be Urx or Ubx to be honest Warden. The true key here is to make sure your Dreadstill list is featuring one of these two colors. If it's not then you might want to reconsider, these colors are absolutely insane in Dreadstill right now.
I have been reconsidering. A very true statement. Pro's and Con's for both sides of the field.
Ok another tournament today. Just a small 10 man most of whom I knew. I have adjusted my B/r/w accordingly. Please comment, anybody else running R/W have any info to share?
By B/r/w you mean U/w/r...
In another line of thought, I love your list. I'm on the verge of selling key cards I own to buy into the deck. Maybe U/R as the base (regular stuff with grim+collar as the base)? Who knows.
Key question now: Is enlightened tutor > dark confidant?
It's a matter of confidant's raw CA vs tutor's CQ. SB's in terms of color have substantial pro's and con's.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I have been reconsidering. A very true statement. Pro's and Con's for both sides of the field.
By B/r/w you mean U/w/r...
In another line of thought, I love your list. I'm on the verge of selling key cards I own to buy into the deck. Maybe U/R as the base (regular stuff with grim+collar as the base)? Who knows.
Key question now: Is enlightened tutor > dark confidant?
It's a matter of confidant's raw CA vs tutor's CQ. SB's in terms of color have substantial pro's and con's.
Lol yeah I missed that, I hereby campaign that Blue retake the B!
Excuse me if the following sounds arrogant...
My list is the result of EXTENSIVE testing. I have tested everyday for the last month. If you look though the last few pages you will see several of my deck lists. My playtest group has been very helpful thoughout the process. What we wanted from the deck was something that could 50/50 fish game 1, 70/30 game two, while not compromising our favored matchups such as combo.
On Bob and black...
I love black as a color. The sideboard cards in black give me delusions of grandeur. In practice however, black SB turned out to be very bad. Engineered plague is not good against merfolk and sweepers are just as good against goblins, possibly better due to coming down turn two, in the case of pyroclasm. Snuff out was a decent answer but didn't help against aggro which is where I needed removal the most. Extirpate is good but soon won't be limited to black (see surgical extraction)
Confidant's CA is awesome. Its a tough choice to not use him. Due to slot restrictions you cannot run Bob and lavamancer. I like to think of Bob as raw power, very unrefined. I felt he made my aggro matches slightly worse. I find him useful against midrange decks, but my plan against them is a bit different.
Lavamancer really shores up our matchup vs aggro and blows out fish. He loves being underneath a standstill and becomes Goku when hes wearing a collar. That being said, enlightened tutor plays well with the deck, heres a list of what it does:
-Grabs top,Counterbalance,Standstill,Dreadnaught,Collar,E.E,
Pithing needle/other SB arties/enchantments
-Shuffles
-Can help CB in a pinch
-With a top in play, gives you cards you need that turn
The whole reason for switching out trinketmage was that it was always too slow for me. It may be that I am a bad player, but many times I see where my opponent is going and trinketmage could not answer fast enough for me. First turn lavamancer, second turn leaving mana open for counters, and tutoring EOFT for either an answer or a collar has always been a star play for me.
I know this is a very convoluted answer but I think its worth being said since the decision to not include bob was not easy.
Lol yeah I missed that, I hereby campaign that Blue retake the B!
Excuse me if the following sounds arrogant...
My list is the result of EXTENSIVE testing. I have tested everyday for the last month. If you look though the last few pages you will see several of my deck lists. My playtest group has been very helpful thoughout the process. What we wanted from the deck was something that could 50/50 fish game 1, 70/30 game two, while not compromising our favored matchups such as combo.
On Bob and black...
I love black as a color. The sideboard cards in black give me delusions of grandeur. In practice however, black SB turned out to be very bad. Engineered plague is not good against merfolk and sweepers are just as good against goblins, possibly better due to coming down turn two, in the case of pyroclasm. Snuff out was a decent answer but didn't help against aggro which is where I needed removal the most. Extirpate is good but soon won't be limited to black (see surgical extraction)
Confidant's CA is awesome. Its a tough choice to not use him. Due to slot restrictions you cannot run Bob and lavamancer. I like to think of Bob as raw power, very unrefined. I felt he made my aggro matches slightly worse. I find him useful against midrange decks, but my plan against them is a bit different.
Lavamancer really shores up our matchup vs aggro and blows out fish. He loves being underneath a standstill and becomes Goku when hes wearing a collar. That being said, enlightened tutor plays well with the deck, heres a list of what it does:
-Grabs top,Counterbalance,Standstill,Dreadnaught,Collar,E.E,
Pithing needle/other SB arties/enchantments
-Shuffles
-Can help CB in a pinch
-With a top in play, gives you cards you need that turn
The whole reason for switching out trinketmage was that it was always too slow for me. It may be that I am a bad player, but many times I see where my opponent is going and trinketmage could not answer fast enough for me. First turn lavamancer, second turn leaving mana open for counters, and tutoring EOFT for either an answer or a collar has always been a star play for me.
I know this is a very convoluted answer but I think its worth being said since the decision to not include bob was not easy.
Well thought out post. What is your list at the moment? Bob will be very difficult for me to let go but i'm always open to options. Is grim that good with collar? seems kinda slow?
Well thought out post. What is your list at the moment? Bob will be very difficult for me to let go but i'm always open to options. Is grim that good with collar? seems kinda slow?
Isn't UB counter-top based deck w/ bob to draw cards kinda slow? just sayin.... it has a high power level like bob... difference is, adds another soft lock to the deck. vs. raw CA
Haven't tried it, but it definitely has potential.
The deck is being tweaked right now (As always). It has not stopped changing for like, the last 45 days of testing.
I am still very unhappy when I play against Junk/Rock. I find my matchups vs affinity,combo, and fish are excellent. This gives me great hope for the deck.
How is everyone faring against Junk? Any advice?
Here is the Version which is laid out in front of me as I type.
Okay I haven't been on Salvation in quite a long time but I'll post the list I am currently Playing, When I have some more time I will read over the last 15 or so pages of the thread and answer any questions that have been raised and left unanswered. Any questions on my list I will also be glad to answer.
I just think that for the goblins/other aggro matchup, sometimes you need something a little bit faster, and a little more reliable if you don't have red open.
Also: What have you guys been doing with standstill?
I know it's the namesake of the deck, but there's just so much aggro running around (With Vial) that it just doesn't seem worth it anymore.
I know the manabase is pretty fragile as it is, but what do people think of this list?
Found this list awhile back, I like the idea of having goyf beatdown as well. It seems to make the mana base very dicey. Would keeping it UB with some go for the throats, and some basic islands be a better choice ?
Also is jace totally needed? I'd like to fit a pithing needle maindeck as it can be searched up by trinket and is rarely a dead card. Thanks
Found this list awhile back, I like the idea of having goyf beatdown as well. It seems to make the mana base very dicey. Would keeping it UB with some go for the throats, and some basic islands be a better choice ?
Also is jace totally needed? I'd like to fit a pithing needle maindeck as it can be searched up by trinket and is rarely a dead card. Thanks
I think most are in agreement that keeping your mana base stable is a good thing. Some decks run a more risky manabase to support a for extensive card pool. I think its a matter a preference and metagame. Your idea is sound.
I think there are a few viable flavors of dreadstill currently. You have the classic U/r and U/r/g, then you have the Rich shay type list which utilises jace and peacekeeper, then you have the other random color splash builds like mine. I don't really like the idea of running jace without peacekeeper, or rather I think the synergy is too good to not use. I do not run Jace, and I don't believe I ever would. I find my biggest problem is dealing with resolved beaters like goyf, knight, or tombstalker. Sure Jace buys a turn or two but I don't have many hard counters for creatures and I have no spot removal so he does not work well for me. Your results may vary.
Let us all say a prayer for topar orb and mental misstep. What does everyone think about misstep?
Ok here are my first thoughts as new phyrexia comes out. Basiclly replacing lavamancer and two arties for 3 misstep and 2 torpor orb
I think this may be enough to win against fish without resorting to lavamancer... I still love the little guy though. The end result will be the ability to counter more important cards while on the play without needing force of will. Torpor is just amazing as it hoses many creatures and is an artifact capable of cheating dreadnaught into play thus enlightened tutor becomes even more useful. And Nodes is now in there because I'm a bad player and I want to test them. More later
Lands really depend on your final deck. Do you run blood moon in the board? How often do you want access to all colors? I run bloodmoon, and seldom need all 3 colors so I go with 2 island and 1 plains for my 3 color build.
I do not like Rich Shays list. I am not as good as a player as Rich Shay and so I achieve much better results with decks that I build that support my preferences.
That said, White is now a permanent color in my deck. Looks like your heading down the same road of testing that I went down not too long ago. Post your list and I'll advice where I can.
What are you looking for in black? Are you going wizard trifecta? Bob/trinket/grim?
What are your problem matchups? Whats your meta like?
Looking to remove the white and add red, Looking to add 3 grims, 1 collar, and 1 pithing needle.
As far as the wizard trifecta you hit the nail on the head. From black I want BOB and all his wonderful card advantage.Doubt i could squeeze any spot removal in
Meta is..Fish, 4c counterbalance, goblins, enchantress, stax, high tide, tes, team america.
I dont have jace's. Also daze is unimpressive. If you have a good UBr list im all ears
My trouble points are Goblins and Zoo right now, and to be frank I need to learn the routes of Dreadstill a little deeper....the Primer just isn't cutting it for me (vs my areas of trouble) on this thread.
Thanks again Rood, I look forward to reading your thoughts, and please feel free to PM if you would like to extend further help to one of the most competitive mages on this site...I don't ask often for it...but I know when to set down pride and take someone's hand so to speak if that will guide me to the light.
S.M.
4 Flooded strand
3 Scalding tarn
4 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Force of Will
3 Spell pierce
3 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Basilisk Collar
His deck is BUG tempo.dec, which happened to feature dreadnought. I'm telling you it's nothing like Dreadstill. He just happened to toss in D-Nought because he's got good cards around it (stifle, cheap counters, CA in bob, etc).
Caffrey really is the man. His analysis is pretty solid here.
****
I'm thinking about how I "buy in" to Dreadstill, since Landstill overlaps most of the cards. Prices constantly increasing is not good. While Dreadnought himself went down slightly, stuff like Seas are increasing daily. My only pet peeve with the deck is that Landstill > Dreadstill, so it's hard mentally shifting to a deck I've eaten alive in the past. Nevertheless, dreadnought's 12/12 trampling frame closes out games significantly better than Landstill can....and I'm getting tired of not being able to close out games in a timely fashion.
Regarding Dreadstill in general, I think black is the mandatory second color. I'm sure Rood would disagree with me, but look at the top reasons to go black: 1) Perish, the mvp SB option for control-ish decks 2) Bob...undeniable card advantage, and 3) cheap removal
The 3rd color debate should really be over R or W. Red has REB/Firespout/Grim+Collar, which are all solid options...but they don't compare to black. White has STP/PTE/Canonist/Peacekeeper/E.tutor....the most realistic and enticing options being the removal. I also find white to pale next to black. UBx is where this deck is at right now. Going UBr or UBw is probably equal in the long run. To me, it's a matter of costs/card I own.
I skip Green entirely because it's just a sub-par option. Goyf isn't needed in the deck. If you feel otherwise, you're waaaay better off running Higginbottom's BUG tempo deck and calling it a day.
*The real debate I'm having is whether or not Jace 2.0 is needed here. I'm by no means debating the card's power. However, if you knock out even 2 slots in the deck, you're creating an inefficiency. I'm not sure what Jace replaces in lists.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I think I finally found a list that flows and has good matchups vs a good portion of the meta.
My B/r/w list packs an amazing punch vs fish. Its amazing how you can remove two cards from your deck and its ruins your deck in certain matchups. I am hereby pledging to never run less than 2 trickbind in my deck.
Grim lavamancer is amazing vs aggro/fish turn one. My enlightened tutors allow me to assemble combos eariler. In the aggro/fish environment, trinketmage was just too slow. Basilisk collar has been awesome as well. I hate those situations where you land a dreadnaught but your opponent can race you. Basilisk collar has helped alot in that regard.
I am missing factory however... If possible I would love to work 3 of the back in but I don't how at this time,
3x Pyroblast
3x Firespout
2x Blood Moon
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Tormod's Crypt
Honestly I'm not even sure how you'd find room to fit in Lavamancers...
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Also: Blood Moon? Isn't that like a self-hose with the lands that we play?
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
Anyone have any experience with Sphere of resistance? I'm considering running one in my sideboard possibly in the cannoness slot. Any advice?
4 Flooded strand
4 Scalding tarn
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Mishra's factory
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Force of Will
3 Spell pierce
2 Daze
2 Trickbind
3 Enlightened tutor
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
2 Swords to plowshares
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Basilisk Collar
3 pyroclasm
3 divert
2 chill
1 pithing needle
1 ethersworn canonist
1 relic of progenitus
2 Null rod
2 Swords to plowshares
For Ur version only, and yes it hurts us but it hurts problematic mu's like loam based decks far, far more than us. Plus if you bring in pyroblast/bolts the extra red sources help a lot, not to mention bolts should give enough reach to win without dreadnought if you can keep the board clear against some of these mu's.
Plus if you stick with fetching duals blood moon can nix islandwalking late game.
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
I have been reconsidering. A very true statement. Pro's and Con's for both sides of the field.
By B/r/w you mean U/w/r...
In another line of thought, I love your list. I'm on the verge of selling key cards I own to buy into the deck. Maybe U/R as the base (regular stuff with grim+collar as the base)? Who knows.
Key question now: Is enlightened tutor > dark confidant?
It's a matter of confidant's raw CA vs tutor's CQ. SB's in terms of color have substantial pro's and con's.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Lol yeah I missed that, I hereby campaign that Blue retake the B!
Excuse me if the following sounds arrogant...
My list is the result of EXTENSIVE testing. I have tested everyday for the last month. If you look though the last few pages you will see several of my deck lists. My playtest group has been very helpful thoughout the process. What we wanted from the deck was something that could 50/50 fish game 1, 70/30 game two, while not compromising our favored matchups such as combo.
On Bob and black...
I love black as a color. The sideboard cards in black give me delusions of grandeur. In practice however, black SB turned out to be very bad. Engineered plague is not good against merfolk and sweepers are just as good against goblins, possibly better due to coming down turn two, in the case of pyroclasm. Snuff out was a decent answer but didn't help against aggro which is where I needed removal the most. Extirpate is good but soon won't be limited to black (see surgical extraction)
Confidant's CA is awesome. Its a tough choice to not use him. Due to slot restrictions you cannot run Bob and lavamancer. I like to think of Bob as raw power, very unrefined. I felt he made my aggro matches slightly worse. I find him useful against midrange decks, but my plan against them is a bit different.
Lavamancer really shores up our matchup vs aggro and blows out fish. He loves being underneath a standstill and becomes Goku when hes wearing a collar. That being said, enlightened tutor plays well with the deck, heres a list of what it does:
-Grabs top,Counterbalance,Standstill,Dreadnaught,Collar,E.E,
Pithing needle/other SB arties/enchantments
-Shuffles
-Can help CB in a pinch
-With a top in play, gives you cards you need that turn
The whole reason for switching out trinketmage was that it was always too slow for me. It may be that I am a bad player, but many times I see where my opponent is going and trinketmage could not answer fast enough for me. First turn lavamancer, second turn leaving mana open for counters, and tutoring EOFT for either an answer or a collar has always been a star play for me.
I know this is a very convoluted answer but I think its worth being said since the decision to not include bob was not easy.
Well thought out post. What is your list at the moment? Bob will be very difficult for me to let go but i'm always open to options. Is grim that good with collar? seems kinda slow?
Isn't UB counter-top based deck w/ bob to draw cards kinda slow? just sayin.... it has a high power level like bob... difference is, adds another soft lock to the deck. vs. raw CA
Haven't tried it, but it definitely has potential.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
I am still very unhappy when I play against Junk/Rock. I find my matchups vs affinity,combo, and fish are excellent. This gives me great hope for the deck.
How is everyone faring against Junk? Any advice?
Here is the Version which is laid out in front of me as I type.
4 Scalding tarn
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
1 Plains
1 Island
3 Mishra's factory
3 Wasteland
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Force of Will
3 Spell pierce
2 Daze
2 Trickbind
4 Enlightened tutor
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Basilisk Collar
3 pyroclasm
1 Firesprout
3 divert
1 pithing needle
1 relic of progenitus
1 chalice
1 energy flux
1 propaganda
3 Anti-junk cards (Currently Testing, Looking for suggestions)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
4 Island
Creatures:10
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
3 Dark Confidant
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Daze
2 Spell Snare
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Trickbind
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Peacekeeper
3 Spell Pierce
2 Perish
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Plains
C.I.#:5
Found this list awhile back, I like the idea of having goyf beatdown as well. It seems to make the mana base very dicey. Would keeping it UB with some go for the throats, and some basic islands be a better choice ?
Also is jace totally needed? I'd like to fit a pithing needle maindeck as it can be searched up by trinket and is rarely a dead card. Thanks
I think most are in agreement that keeping your mana base stable is a good thing. Some decks run a more risky manabase to support a for extensive card pool. I think its a matter a preference and metagame. Your idea is sound.
I think there are a few viable flavors of dreadstill currently. You have the classic U/r and U/r/g, then you have the Rich shay type list which utilises jace and peacekeeper, then you have the other random color splash builds like mine. I don't really like the idea of running jace without peacekeeper, or rather I think the synergy is too good to not use. I do not run Jace, and I don't believe I ever would. I find my biggest problem is dealing with resolved beaters like goyf, knight, or tombstalker. Sure Jace buys a turn or two but I don't have many hard counters for creatures and I have no spot removal so he does not work well for me. Your results may vary.
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
Ok here are my first thoughts as new phyrexia comes out. Basiclly replacing lavamancer and two arties for 3 misstep and 2 torpor orb
I think this may be enough to win against fish without resorting to lavamancer... I still love the little guy though. The end result will be the ability to counter more important cards while on the play without needing force of will. Torpor is just amazing as it hoses many creatures and is an artifact capable of cheating dreadnaught into play thus enlightened tutor becomes even more useful. And Nodes is now in there because I'm a bad player and I want to test them. More later
4 Scalding tarn
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
1 Plains
1 Island
3 Mishra's factory
3 Wasteland
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Force of Will
3 Spell pierce
3 mental misstep
2 Daze
1 Trickbind
4 Enlightened tutor
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
1 Porphyry Nodes
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Torpor Orb
3 pyroclasm
1 Firesprout
3 divert
1 pithing needle
1 relic of progenitus
1 chalice
1 energy flux
1 propaganda
3 Anti-junk cards (Currently Testing, Looking for suggestions)
What would be the best mana base for UBr dreadstill?
How many basics?
I do not like Rich Shays list. I am not as good as a player as Rich Shay and so I achieve much better results with decks that I build that support my preferences.
That said, White is now a permanent color in my deck. Looks like your heading down the same road of testing that I went down not too long ago. Post your list and I'll advice where I can.
What are you looking for in black? Are you going wizard trifecta? Bob/trinket/grim?
What are your problem matchups? Whats your meta like?
Artifacts
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Artifact Creatures
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
Creatures
3 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
Enchantments
3 Counterbalance
3 Standstill
Instants
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Swords to Plowshares
Basic Lands
3 Island
Lands
2 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
Looking to remove the white and add red, Looking to add 3 grims, 1 collar, and 1 pithing needle.
As far as the wizard trifecta you hit the nail on the head. From black I want BOB and all his wonderful card advantage.Doubt i could squeeze any spot removal in
Meta is..Fish, 4c counterbalance, goblins, enchantress, stax, high tide, tes, team america.
I dont have jace's. Also daze is unimpressive. If you have a good UBr list im all ears
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Badland
2 Island
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Spell snare
3 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
1 Pithing needle
1 Engineered Explosives