Deck can have some trouble with combo in game 1, especially in the blind if you don't know what type of hand you need to be keeping. Post-board it is a pretty standard blade deck in that its percentages go way up against most combo decks. This deck is generically a little soft to pure control decks. Also like other blade decks the sideboard strategy varies a lot depending on play/draw, opponent play style and what cards were seen or shown G1.
This deck is rough. Alex smashed the heck out of me in the finals playing it. First time I have seen this deck and didn't realize it was a thing.
How does this deck do against combo and what is the sideboard plan?
Yea, I gave up the Maverick components of the deck to have better edge against combo with countermagic.
I made the deck more blue for Force of Will, Vendilion Clique and True-Name.
Postboard white allows for the best hate cards like Ethersworn Canonist etc.
The green is basically there for ramp; Noble Hierarch/Shaman are powerful t1 drops with very relevant abilities.
T1 ramp, T2 TNN, Geist or Clique.
Here's the list, might play with the SB more and add in a Jace, also might switch out the Dig through Time for something else...maybe mainboard the Councils Judgement instead and add Jace to the SB:
I like it, but I don't know if it's strong enough in the matches it's good in. I like that it's an instant, so you can get some combat trick value out of it or EOT casting for pseudo-haste.
What matches is it good in? I'd say anything that's a resource battle since it is card advantage assuming you hit two critters. I'd compare it to GSZ. It may fight with Elspeth in the 4-drop slot as well. A 4-drop needs to turn the game around. I can see this card doing that sometimes, but I don't know that our creature count is high enough to fuel it, even with 4 Brainstorms.
Bad matches? Combo or decks that don't care much about your creatures (i.e.: loads of removal or the speed to ignore them,) which remain our toughest pairings.
I'd put it in the batch of cards that are certainly not going to hurt the deck as a 1-of, but not anything that's going to make a big splash. I'm currently playing with Psionic Blast. We're short on Planeswalker removal and people just don't see 4 to the dome coming. Awesome? Not really...fun? Yep.
I'm going to give Legacy another try and I thought I would start with this old friend. I'm specifically looking to beat Grixis Pyromancer, Miracles Control, OmniTell (and family), and RUG Delver. Here's my theoretical list:
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one pondering playing lots of mana dorks! Rhox War Monk is just an experiment to help against Delver decks. Thoughts on it? And I'm looking for suggestions for the last sideboard slots. I was thinking Duress, Spell Pierce, or Path to Exile.
I'm specifically looking to beat Grixis Pyromancer, Miracles Control, OmniTell (and family), and RUG Delver...
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one pondering playing lots of mana dorks! Rhox War Monk is just an experiment to help against Delver decks. Thoughts on it? And I'm looking for suggestions for the last sideboard slots. I was thinking Duress, Spell Pierce, or Path to Exile.
Sylvan Library is a great option against Miracles. Zealous Persecution is good against other True-Names as well as Pyromancer decks.
I have been working on Bant again. I am liking this list a fair bit. I played a version with a natural order package in the main recently, and that had value but not good enough for main deck. I think I want to move the Teeg to the board, possibly for the bog or second pierce. Lots of lands and combo hate in the board. Possible that the combo matchups are good enough that some additional space could be made for some more cards for fair matchups (engineered explosives or zealous persecution). Knight-fall package is excellent, and I like the stage-depths as a second knight-fall kill condition (beyond simple Knight beatdown). One savannah could become a second black source (bayou, sea or scrubland), but 1 has been fine so far. Deathrite, loam and bog help with generating black mana in a pinch.
@limbo, list looks interesting...seems like you are trying to squeeze alot of ideas in one.
Not sure how necessary Mindsculptor is mainboard. Another Ponder might help smooth out draws.
Also not sure how Vryn's Prodigy fits.
Here's my updated list, biggest changes were putting Council's Judgment and Sylvan Library mainboard..Library is absolutely bonkers!
@limbo, list looks interesting...seems like you are trying to squeeze alot of ideas in one.
Not sure how necessary Mindsculptor is mainboard. Another Ponder might help smooth out draws.
Also not sure how Vryn's Prodigy fits.
The Vryn's Prodigy is very good. I had two last week. Decided to try one snapcaster so I won't have to hold one in hand. Played a bit last night. Second Vryn's is more powerful, but I really like the singleton approach. Of note, the Vryn's works well with the Knight and loam engines.
The aggro lists like yours are nice in an open field (I played the 8 dork version for a long time (see previous pages)) but my local metagame is currently rich in lands, miracles, agro loam and shardless. The combo kill from Knight-fall and stage-Depths are very strong against those decks. The GSZ tool kit is also helpful with these.
Retreat has impressed me. 3 is plenty though. It speeds up and smooths out draws, lets you control opponents marit lage, tarmogoyf, etc. Far more impressed that I expected. (also of course hits the classic inclusions excuse of pitching to force, so I can have a high blue count while maintaining threat density). Of note, I would not play retreat combo if I expected to see a lot of TNNs; I don't like the red splash for taiga and wolf run, especially with the black splash already.
NO package in the side is, again, to give increased combo-ish kill potential against decks where I don't want the force of wills, swords, or Jace. It absolutely could be swapped out for more finessed sideboard plans. In an open metagame I would have a removal spell(path/dismember), another wasteland, a sylvan and another flex spot instead of the NO package. I had main deck NO, probes, and Meddling mages (no forces or GSZ) over the past month which was an interesting experiment. I liked the probes immensely. I am testing out 3 probes in place ponder, teeg and JTMS tomorrow night.
How has stoneforge package been for you lately? I think I would rather just be on 4x pridemage and 2x Ooze right now.
How has stoneforge package been for you lately? I think I would rather just be on 4x pridemage and 2x Ooze right now...
I don't have a constant Legacy scene where I live and only play serious paper legacy about 2-3 times a YEAR. Its very unfortunate...so typically as you mentioned my deck is built more for open metas rather than local group. I went to an event a few weeks ago where there was ANT, Miracles, Infect, Painter, RUG Delver and Meathooks and placed 4th out of 10 people.
I like the Stoneforge package as it allows me to be more aggressive and is a powerful turn two spell.
I really love the option of going turn 1 mana-dork into turn 2 stoneforge and wasteland my opponent.
With Stoneforge you can grab an answer to elves via jitte, miracles via batterskull, rug via sword of fire & ice.
Pridemage and Ooze are good but are subjective, esp when I don't run green sun's zenith.
Deathrite is more versatile than Ooze and cards like (Force, Daze, Clique, Council's Judgment) can deal with stuff Pridemage does imho.
@limbo, list looks interesting...seems like you are trying to squeeze alot of ideas in one.
Not sure how necessary Mindsculptor is mainboard. Another Ponder might help smooth out draws.
Also not sure how Vryn's Prodigy fits.
Here's my updated list, biggest changes were putting Council's Judgment
and Sylvan Library mainboard..Library is absolutely bonkers!
I've had the maindeck Sylvan Library from just about the start, card will win
most attrition game, a win-con by itself if the game is about to stretch out.
How has the maindeck Council's Judgment been? I usually play with 1 to 2 in
the sideboard, wondering what got ya to move it maindeck.
I mentioned a long while back that I had a weekly legacy scene but that's disappeared since,
so I've slowly been building up the deck on MTGO,
should be able to complete it this week and finally get a chance to work on the list again.
Funny enough I was almost done foiling the deck (just missing the last judge Force of Will)
As for ponder, I was never a fan of the extra cantrips (aside Brainstorm)
as I felt I always had plenty to do with
my mana with a strong pro-active plan, but whenever I had room in my deck Ponder
was my go-to filler since its great help at finding specific answers.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a card that moves often between the maindeck or not at all,
but lately its remained in the deck, great whenever I'm ahead to push my advantage on other angles. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is similar in that role while sticking to a lower curve, but I
assume you need to add more proactive instants/sorceries for him to be effective (like the maindeck
abrupt decays), not sure I see his place in Bant but I can attest he's still a powerful card (I dabble
with him in modern).
Shyter long time no hear!
Good to see you back on here.
Yea, I have the deck built on mtgo and hope legacy leagues happen soon. Council's Judgement has been good. Sometimes its an expensive Swords to Plowshares, other times its an answer to planewalkers, enchantments, artifacts and opposing True-Names. I like having a catch all mainboard, especially against Miracles.
The other week I (finally!) gathered enough cards (delaying the Wastelands until Eternal Masters is released) to start jamming games to get this rust off (only play legacy every 2 months on paper nowadays), and it has been a good time! Brews often perform well since the opponents are not sure what you are on until the match is over, and this deck is often king in a fair magic matchup.
The 75 has some concessions to the Eldrazi menace on MTGO with the variety of spot removal cards in the sideboard, thankfully the matchup is slightly favored on my side from my play experience (faced at least 10 opponents rocking the Eldrazi Aggro lists). And this was without the wastelands, which I assume improves the matchup with different angles of attack.
A recent addition to the sideboard has been the fancy Amageddon, which is primarily for Shardless Bug and Miracles, and it has done me very well so far!
I also made a brief tournament report of the games from that league in case you were curious!
Bant Deathblade Legacy 5-0 League Report
Match one : 2-1
Play vs Shardless Bug
Won Game 1 Force through a TNN to try and stick sword on it, abrupt disrupts that plan, but never found answer to TNN +dorks
Lost Game 2 Sylvan Library card advantage into SFM+TNN, but Toxic Deluge breaks serve. (the primary way I lose to Shardless Bug)
Won Game 3 DRS into Double Stoneforge Mystic to bait removal so I can buy time for land drops on both sides, he doesn’t have any removal so I just suit up a Sword on Batterskull. He makes a tricky block with Tarmogoyf then abrupt decays the Sword, but Deathrite eats the only instant in the yard and germ kills the goyf. Hard for him to recover, so he taps out for Jace in which I Daze. On my turn I play my opening hand ARMAGEDDON with double Daze backup.
On the side I’ve been gathering up the cards and playing Esper Deathblade in 2mans. You basically retire what enforced your proactive plays like noble hierarchs and dazes for better grindy cards that match up well against combo through thoughtseize and spell pierces. I’m a fairly defensive player so the Esper builds obviously appeals well to me so I’ll try some builds out.
What do people think about Edric? I've seen Szabo's list with Judge's Familiars and no GSZ and thought it was pretty neat. Was thinking that maybe there was some innovation to be done with Edric.
Could the deck go Bant Rogues and play some combination of Cold-Eyed Selkie, Cloak and Dagger, and Thieve's Fortune? Try to play value and use Coiling Oracle alongside Snapcaster Mage? Try to get as much as we can out of Edric by playing Geist of Saint Traft and Brimaz for creatures that make multiple other creatures?
So many ideas and I just don't have the cards to make it happen.
I played with Edric for a while using the old Bahra_ list and a few modified versions. Edric is an odd duck. It costs 3 mana and doesn't have an ETB trigger. You also have to build your deck with a lot of other, lower curve creatures to make him work well. It is cute in a GSZ deck, probably as a 1 of in Elves would be his best home, but I think there are better things to do in the Bant colors. Vendilion Clique is just a better card in most situations.
I really like the card, but am in the same general head space as you, don't think she is better than Jace or Elspeth. I think she would excel in a metagame full of shardless bug and probably eldrazi. Basically the decks that grind you down with good creatures but have minimal mana disruption. Not sure what other common matchups she really helps. I haven't ever cast her though, so just speculating.
I really like the card, but am in the same general head space as you, don't think she is better than Jace or Elspeth. I think she would excel in a metagame full of shardless bug and probably eldrazi. Basically the decks that grind you down with good creatures but have minimal mana disruption. Not sure what other common matchups she really helps. I haven't ever cast her though, so just speculating.
Yea, I went to a 17-man unsactioned Legacy Tournament over the weekend and tried Tamiyo, Field Researcher as a one of...took out a Geist of Saint Traft since they had similar casting cost. Didn't get to cast her at all but situations I see she would've been good was against Death and Taxes and Eldrazi. I did play a couple games with her on mtgo and did cast her against a D&T deck, it actually stopped him from attacking for a turn. Against an Esper Control deck I drew some cards off of Lingering Souls tokens.
Overall I think she needs more testing. She breaks stalemates and draws cards...
Heres my list, not much changed from a couple posts above except for testing Tamiyo and added 4th TNN:
Played in the SCG Legacy Classic yesterday. Decklist Finished 2nd of 118
I built the sideboard to be solid against Eldrazi and Miracles, hence the second path and two walkers. The second path should have been a dismember (one colorless mana is much better than 1 white). I also found that the opponents running land hate targeted my white sources almost exclusively, so cutting the path and avoiding double white (elspeth) spells is probably a good idea, though miracles won't disrupt your mana. New Tamiyo might be better in that spot, fine against miracles, excellent against shardless, etc... though almost any walker or card advantage spell is probably fine for the purpose.
Round 1: RUG Delver (W 2-0), Started off strong. He started with T1 goose, which is not scary. My dorks were able to give me solid mana. Threw some test spells into the maw of daze and force (stoneforge and clique) to allow me to stick library and TNN. Game 2, Brought in path, decay and flusterstorm. He again started with T1 goose and I was the bigger control deck, sitting back, putting down road blocks and taking him off of green mana.
Round 2: Lands (W 2-0), As I have said, I love this matchup. My opponent had just finished his deck before the tournament so was not yet fluent with the deck. G1 I stuck an early deathrite, followed by library and wasteland. With library I floated white source and plow. When I tapped the wasteland to play a TNN he took his chance on his turn to gamble for one combo piece and rotate for the other, making the 20/20. I untapped used the libary to draw white source + plow and put him up to 35. Wasteland and deathrite meant he never got going again, and I quickly killed him. Game 2 I brought in 2x path, 2x mage, 2x surgical, 1x RIP, 1x invasive surgery, +1 grip, +1 decay. -4 plow, -1 sofai, -3 daze, -2 mystic. Didn't see sideboard cards just built an army and disrupted long enough with waste, deathrite and 2 hard cast forces on life from the loams to keep him from doing anything.
Round 3: UW stoneblade with thought-knot (2-0), He had apparently seen me playing in the earlier rounds and sat down sulking, not wanting to deal with TNN. His mana draws were poor both games so I didn't have to do much. After seeing the decklist, it looks very interesting but I did not get to play against this deck when it was performing well. Game 2 had a memorable blow out where my one-of post board, on-the-draw daze countered his batterskull. He did well for the rest of the day, so the deck likely has chops but when we talked he said it wasn't quite there yet. One to keep an eye on.
Round 4: Eldrazi aggro (2-1), Sitting down I new he was on Eldrazi. Game 1 I mulliganed an ok hand, since I knew it wasn't good in the matchup, and was rewarded with a hand that cast mystic on T2 and was swinging with Jitte on T3. He made a string of chump blockers but couldn't keep the jitte at bay. He showed me two basic wastes in game 1 which I thought was interesting. Game 2, brought in paths (despite the wastes), decay, grip, and garruk, I again mulliganed to 6. Kept trop, waste, deathrite, and his early wasteland took me off colored sources long enough for him to run me over. Game 3 he didn't do a ton. Jitte and TNN were enough.
Round 5: Grixis Delver, turbo angler (2-1), Ben is an outstanding player. I knew he was playing Grixis but was very much caught off guard by a snapcaster in game 1. In game 2 we played a low resource game trading wastelands. Luckily for me he made one glaring error in this game, on my turn I wasted him off of colored lands, but he had an angler and a wasteland of his own in play. He used his waste in his next pre-combat main phase to hit one of my trops. I floated blue. He then attempted to pass into combat. I used my floating mana and noble + second trop to cast clique. He revealed a hand with a decay (which I took), a daze and a polluted delta, along with some other cards he wasn't near casting. Had he played the delta, I could not have cliqued and he almost certainly wins. Game 3 we play another low resource game but I am able to get a better mana footing and TNN plus exalted does the job.
Round 6: D&T (1-2); At this point, I am feeling great, one of only 3 5-0's, paired against another 5-0 and based on the standings we can both double draw in. I do a poor job of explaining this however and my opponent decides he wants to play. I tilt HARD. My opponent is playing the new Thalia which is annoying for my deck, so I attempt to plow it completely missing that my opponent played a Karakas the previous turn. I later miss a vial activation with known information... just a mess. I win game 2 off of a zealous persecution and game 3 he has double waste, double port and a plow for my dork and I never do much. His sword of fire and ice did a lot of work in all three games. Crestfallen, I examine the standings for as long as possible before the next round is called.
Round 7: D&T, ID. When sitting down I know a draw locks in my opponent and puts me at >90% to top 8. Of the people on 15 points I had the highest breakers by a mile (all three categories) and even better against the people with 13 points. My opponent had 16 points, so a draw locked him in for top 8. I took that risk that a draw would put me into 8th rather than 9th (some truly weird breaker stuff would have had to happen). My strong start to the day allowed me to get away with this, making the 8th spot with room to spare.
Top8 :same D&T player from round 6 (2-0), He got me in round 6 but I played these games tight and they were not close. His success with SoFaI and new Thalia in our previous round blinded him somewhat I think. Game one I had a nice play. He had an active mystic (sofai in hand) with 3 mana. I had deathrite, stoneforge, TNN. He attempted to plow my deathrite so I cast daze to put him to a decision, get rid of my deathrite by paying for the daze or activate his mystic this turn. He tanked for a while. Without the daze, he would have been able to force me to chump with my mystic and then would have started getting hits in with the sword, racing my TNN +jitte (in hand). He let me keep the deathrite choosing to get his sword into play. My mystic blocked his so sworded guy the following turn, I then put in and equipped my jitte and attacked getting counters. A chump with my deathrite and string of nobles I drew put him too far behind to recover and a StP for the revoker he eventually put on jitte locked him out a few turns later. Game 2 he started slowly but had a needle for my two deathrites. I found the third deathrite the following turn (sigh). Triple Deathrite beat down accompanied by a string of removal spells and a Kgrip to remove the needle late in the game was enough to get the win. After round 6, I must admit this one felt very good.
Top 4 ANT (2-1), As the 8 seed I was on the draw throughout top 8. I knew he was on ANT, so I was unsurprised when my mediocre 6 card keep and scry to the bottom got killed on T2. Game 2 I mulled to 5 and thought I was truly out of it, but trop, noble, daze, canonist were enough to make my first 2 turns very good. I found a meddling mage for T3 and 2/2 beatdown did the job. Game 3 I had a very solid hand and again including a T2 canonist with counter back up, so when he didn't kill me on T1, I was well positioned and took it relatively easily.
Finals Grixis Delver, turbo angler (1-2) Rematch of round 5. Game 1 I had a strong start but his wasteland, bolt and force all on T2 put me way behind. I was able to stablize at 4 life with a mystic into batterskull and a counterspell for his dismember. G2 I mulled to 6. It was back and forth but he got it. Game 3 I kept a mana heavy hand (2 noble, tundra, trop, wasteland) figuring that as long as he didn't have forked bolt this hand would let me have the mana advantage throughout and I would be in good shape. On his T2 when he wastelanded my tundra and forked bolted both of my nobles I fell way behind. My remaining tropical island didn't cast the string of white spells I drew and when I found another land it was my basic forest. A brainstorm lock a turn later was the writing on the wall. He killed me with 2 gurmag anglers.
Other than losing my head in round 6 I am happy with how I played. I continue to love the deck, and like other deathblade decks it is infinitely tunable which is nice. Putting the same report on the other legacy discussion board.
@limbo, awesome write up.
What do you think of Worship in the sideboard for the Eldrazi, Burn, Maverick and other creature stall type matchups?
Also have you been able to test Tamiyo, Field Researcher?
Looks like my initial decklist before splashing black for Shaman.
Congrats to Alex, although I think Shamans are too powerful to give up.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
How does this deck do against combo and what is the sideboard plan?
Yea, I gave up the Maverick components of the deck to have better edge against combo with countermagic.
I made the deck more blue for Force of Will, Vendilion Clique and True-Name.
Postboard white allows for the best hate cards like Ethersworn Canonist etc.
The green is basically there for ramp; Noble Hierarch/Shaman are powerful t1 drops with very relevant abilities.
T1 ramp, T2 TNN, Geist or Clique.
Here's the list, might play with the SB more and add in a Jace, also might switch out the Dig through Time for something else...maybe mainboard the Councils Judgement instead and add Jace to the SB:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Forest
Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Ponder
1 Dig Through time
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Spell Pierce
1 Krosan Grip
1 Council's Judgment
1 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
What do you guys think of that card for this deck?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
What matches is it good in? I'd say anything that's a resource battle since it is card advantage assuming you hit two critters. I'd compare it to GSZ. It may fight with Elspeth in the 4-drop slot as well. A 4-drop needs to turn the game around. I can see this card doing that sometimes, but I don't know that our creature count is high enough to fuel it, even with 4 Brainstorms.
Bad matches? Combo or decks that don't care much about your creatures (i.e.: loads of removal or the speed to ignore them,) which remain our toughest pairings.
I'd put it in the batch of cards that are certainly not going to hurt the deck as a 1-of, but not anything that's going to make a big splash. I'm currently playing with Psionic Blast. We're short on Planeswalker removal and people just don't see 4 to the dome coming. Awesome? Not really...fun? Yep.
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Knight of the Reliquary
3x True-Name Nemesis
3x Rhox War Monk
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Daze
3x Force of Will
2x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Savannah
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Bayou
4x Wasteland
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Windswept Heath
2x Flooded Strand
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Force of Will
3x Containment Priest
3x Gaddock Teeg
2x Krosan Grip
3x Abrupt Decay
3x ??
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one pondering playing lots of mana dorks! Rhox War Monk is just an experiment to help against Delver decks. Thoughts on it? And I'm looking for suggestions for the last sideboard slots. I was thinking Duress, Spell Pierce, or Path to Exile.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Zealous Persecution is good against other True-Names as well as Pyromancer decks.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
3x Force of Will
1x Spell Pierce
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Retreat to Coralhelm
1x Life from the Loam
1x Ponder
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Bayou
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Savannah
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
2x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Flusterstorm
3x Meddling Mage
3x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
1x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Telemin Performance
1x Tsabo's Web
Not sure how necessary Mindsculptor is mainboard. Another Ponder might help smooth out draws.
Also not sure how Vryn's Prodigy fits.
Here's my updated list, biggest changes were putting Council's Judgment and Sylvan Library mainboard..Library is absolutely bonkers!
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas
1 Forest
Creatures (19)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Ponder
1 Council's Judgment
Artifacts (3)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Krosan Grip
1 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
The Vryn's Prodigy is very good. I had two last week. Decided to try one snapcaster so I won't have to hold one in hand. Played a bit last night. Second Vryn's is more powerful, but I really like the singleton approach. Of note, the Vryn's works well with the Knight and loam engines.
The aggro lists like yours are nice in an open field (I played the 8 dork version for a long time (see previous pages)) but my local metagame is currently rich in lands, miracles, agro loam and shardless. The combo kill from Knight-fall and stage-Depths are very strong against those decks. The GSZ tool kit is also helpful with these.
Retreat has impressed me. 3 is plenty though. It speeds up and smooths out draws, lets you control opponents marit lage, tarmogoyf, etc. Far more impressed that I expected. (also of course hits the classic inclusions excuse of pitching to force, so I can have a high blue count while maintaining threat density). Of note, I would not play retreat combo if I expected to see a lot of TNNs; I don't like the red splash for taiga and wolf run, especially with the black splash already.
NO package in the side is, again, to give increased combo-ish kill potential against decks where I don't want the force of wills, swords, or Jace. It absolutely could be swapped out for more finessed sideboard plans. In an open metagame I would have a removal spell(path/dismember), another wasteland, a sylvan and another flex spot instead of the NO package. I had main deck NO, probes, and Meddling mages (no forces or GSZ) over the past month which was an interesting experiment. I liked the probes immensely. I am testing out 3 probes in place ponder, teeg and JTMS tomorrow night.
How has stoneforge package been for you lately? I think I would rather just be on 4x pridemage and 2x Ooze right now.
I like the Stoneforge package as it allows me to be more aggressive and is a powerful turn two spell.
I really love the option of going turn 1 mana-dork into turn 2 stoneforge and wasteland my opponent.
With Stoneforge you can grab an answer to elves via jitte, miracles via batterskull, rug via sword of fire & ice.
Pridemage and Ooze are good but are subjective, esp when I don't run green sun's zenith.
Deathrite is more versatile than Ooze and cards like (Force, Daze, Clique, Council's Judgment) can deal with stuff Pridemage does imho.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Bummer. I forget sometimes how lucky I am to have it at a minimum of once a week.
I've had the maindeck Sylvan Library from just about the start, card will win
most attrition game, a win-con by itself if the game is about to stretch out.
How has the maindeck Council's Judgment been? I usually play with 1 to 2 in
the sideboard, wondering what got ya to move it maindeck.
I mentioned a long while back that I had a weekly legacy scene but that's disappeared since,
so I've slowly been building up the deck on MTGO,
should be able to complete it this week and finally get a chance to work on the list again.
Funny enough I was almost done foiling the deck (just missing the last judge Force of Will)
As for ponder, I was never a fan of the extra cantrips (aside Brainstorm)
as I felt I always had plenty to do with
my mana with a strong pro-active plan, but whenever I had room in my deck Ponder
was my go-to filler since its great help at finding specific answers.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a card that moves often between the maindeck or not at all,
but lately its remained in the deck, great whenever I'm ahead to push my advantage on other angles.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is similar in that role while sticking to a lower curve, but I
assume you need to add more proactive instants/sorceries for him to be effective (like the maindeck
abrupt decays), not sure I see his place in Bant but I can attest he's still a powerful card (I dabble
with him in modern).
RUGTarmo Twin Modern Combo deck
Good to see you back on here.
Yea, I have the deck built on mtgo and hope legacy leagues happen soon. Council's Judgement has been good. Sometimes its an expensive Swords to Plowshares, other times its an answer to planewalkers, enchantments, artifacts and opposing True-Names. I like having a catch all mainboard, especially against Miracles.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30429_Todd-VS-BBD-.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V36tcM6X-DI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=athQj4bDeaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_uXoK-4PEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VELvo0JmRcc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ka2HlyGsP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PI3kSdlcZE
After a couple of leagues I finally landed on a 5-0 streak! Here’s a link to the decklist.
The 75 has some concessions to the Eldrazi menace on MTGO with the variety of spot removal cards in the sideboard, thankfully the matchup is slightly favored on my side from my play experience (faced at least 10 opponents rocking the Eldrazi Aggro lists). And this was without the wastelands, which I assume improves the matchup with different angles of attack.
A recent addition to the sideboard has been the fancy Amageddon, which is primarily for Shardless Bug and Miracles, and it has done me very well so far!
I also made a brief tournament report of the games from that league in case you were curious!
Match one : 2-1
Play vs Shardless Bug
Match 2 : 2-0
Draw vs Alluren Combo
Match 3 : 2-0
Draw vs Red Stompy
Match 4 : 2-1
Play vs Eldrazi Aggro
Match 5 : 2-1
Play vs Sneak and Show
RUGTarmo Twin Modern Combo deck
Could the deck go Bant Rogues and play some combination of Cold-Eyed Selkie, Cloak and Dagger, and Thieve's Fortune? Try to play value and use Coiling Oracle alongside Snapcaster Mage? Try to get as much as we can out of Edric by playing Geist of Saint Traft and Brimaz for creatures that make multiple other creatures?
So many ideas and I just don't have the cards to make it happen.
Don't think she is better than Jace or Elspeth, but wanted to get some thoughts...
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Overall I think she needs more testing. She breaks stalemates and draws cards...
Heres my list, not much changed from a couple posts above except for testing Tamiyo and added 4th TNN:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas
1 Forest
Creatures (18)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Ponder
1 Council's Judgment
Artifacts (3)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Spell Pierce
1 Krosan Grip
1 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
I built the sideboard to be solid against Eldrazi and Miracles, hence the second path and two walkers. The second path should have been a dismember (one colorless mana is much better than 1 white). I also found that the opponents running land hate targeted my white sources almost exclusively, so cutting the path and avoiding double white (elspeth) spells is probably a good idea, though miracles won't disrupt your mana. New Tamiyo might be better in that spot, fine against miracles, excellent against shardless, etc... though almost any walker or card advantage spell is probably fine for the purpose.
Round 1: RUG Delver (W 2-0), Started off strong. He started with T1 goose, which is not scary. My dorks were able to give me solid mana. Threw some test spells into the maw of daze and force (stoneforge and clique) to allow me to stick library and TNN. Game 2, Brought in path, decay and flusterstorm. He again started with T1 goose and I was the bigger control deck, sitting back, putting down road blocks and taking him off of green mana.
Round 2: Lands (W 2-0), As I have said, I love this matchup. My opponent had just finished his deck before the tournament so was not yet fluent with the deck. G1 I stuck an early deathrite, followed by library and wasteland. With library I floated white source and plow. When I tapped the wasteland to play a TNN he took his chance on his turn to gamble for one combo piece and rotate for the other, making the 20/20. I untapped used the libary to draw white source + plow and put him up to 35. Wasteland and deathrite meant he never got going again, and I quickly killed him. Game 2 I brought in 2x path, 2x mage, 2x surgical, 1x RIP, 1x invasive surgery, +1 grip, +1 decay. -4 plow, -1 sofai, -3 daze, -2 mystic. Didn't see sideboard cards just built an army and disrupted long enough with waste, deathrite and 2 hard cast forces on life from the loams to keep him from doing anything.
Round 3: UW stoneblade with thought-knot (2-0), He had apparently seen me playing in the earlier rounds and sat down sulking, not wanting to deal with TNN. His mana draws were poor both games so I didn't have to do much. After seeing the decklist, it looks very interesting but I did not get to play against this deck when it was performing well. Game 2 had a memorable blow out where my one-of post board, on-the-draw daze countered his batterskull. He did well for the rest of the day, so the deck likely has chops but when we talked he said it wasn't quite there yet. One to keep an eye on.
Round 4: Eldrazi aggro (2-1), Sitting down I new he was on Eldrazi. Game 1 I mulliganed an ok hand, since I knew it wasn't good in the matchup, and was rewarded with a hand that cast mystic on T2 and was swinging with Jitte on T3. He made a string of chump blockers but couldn't keep the jitte at bay. He showed me two basic wastes in game 1 which I thought was interesting. Game 2, brought in paths (despite the wastes), decay, grip, and garruk, I again mulliganed to 6. Kept trop, waste, deathrite, and his early wasteland took me off colored sources long enough for him to run me over. Game 3 he didn't do a ton. Jitte and TNN were enough.
Round 5: Grixis Delver, turbo angler (2-1), Ben is an outstanding player. I knew he was playing Grixis but was very much caught off guard by a snapcaster in game 1. In game 2 we played a low resource game trading wastelands. Luckily for me he made one glaring error in this game, on my turn I wasted him off of colored lands, but he had an angler and a wasteland of his own in play. He used his waste in his next pre-combat main phase to hit one of my trops. I floated blue. He then attempted to pass into combat. I used my floating mana and noble + second trop to cast clique. He revealed a hand with a decay (which I took), a daze and a polluted delta, along with some other cards he wasn't near casting. Had he played the delta, I could not have cliqued and he almost certainly wins. Game 3 we play another low resource game but I am able to get a better mana footing and TNN plus exalted does the job.
Round 6: D&T (1-2); At this point, I am feeling great, one of only 3 5-0's, paired against another 5-0 and based on the standings we can both double draw in. I do a poor job of explaining this however and my opponent decides he wants to play. I tilt HARD. My opponent is playing the new Thalia which is annoying for my deck, so I attempt to plow it completely missing that my opponent played a Karakas the previous turn. I later miss a vial activation with known information... just a mess. I win game 2 off of a zealous persecution and game 3 he has double waste, double port and a plow for my dork and I never do much. His sword of fire and ice did a lot of work in all three games. Crestfallen, I examine the standings for as long as possible before the next round is called.
Round 7: D&T, ID. When sitting down I know a draw locks in my opponent and puts me at >90% to top 8. Of the people on 15 points I had the highest breakers by a mile (all three categories) and even better against the people with 13 points. My opponent had 16 points, so a draw locked him in for top 8. I took that risk that a draw would put me into 8th rather than 9th (some truly weird breaker stuff would have had to happen). My strong start to the day allowed me to get away with this, making the 8th spot with room to spare.
Top8 :same D&T player from round 6 (2-0), He got me in round 6 but I played these games tight and they were not close. His success with SoFaI and new Thalia in our previous round blinded him somewhat I think. Game one I had a nice play. He had an active mystic (sofai in hand) with 3 mana. I had deathrite, stoneforge, TNN. He attempted to plow my deathrite so I cast daze to put him to a decision, get rid of my deathrite by paying for the daze or activate his mystic this turn. He tanked for a while. Without the daze, he would have been able to force me to chump with my mystic and then would have started getting hits in with the sword, racing my TNN +jitte (in hand). He let me keep the deathrite choosing to get his sword into play. My mystic blocked his so sworded guy the following turn, I then put in and equipped my jitte and attacked getting counters. A chump with my deathrite and string of nobles I drew put him too far behind to recover and a StP for the revoker he eventually put on jitte locked him out a few turns later. Game 2 he started slowly but had a needle for my two deathrites. I found the third deathrite the following turn (sigh). Triple Deathrite beat down accompanied by a string of removal spells and a Kgrip to remove the needle late in the game was enough to get the win. After round 6, I must admit this one felt very good.
Top 4 ANT (2-1), As the 8 seed I was on the draw throughout top 8. I knew he was on ANT, so I was unsurprised when my mediocre 6 card keep and scry to the bottom got killed on T2. Game 2 I mulled to 5 and thought I was truly out of it, but trop, noble, daze, canonist were enough to make my first 2 turns very good. I found a meddling mage for T3 and 2/2 beatdown did the job. Game 3 I had a very solid hand and again including a T2 canonist with counter back up, so when he didn't kill me on T1, I was well positioned and took it relatively easily.
Finals Grixis Delver, turbo angler (1-2) Rematch of round 5. Game 1 I had a strong start but his wasteland, bolt and force all on T2 put me way behind. I was able to stablize at 4 life with a mystic into batterskull and a counterspell for his dismember. G2 I mulled to 6. It was back and forth but he got it. Game 3 I kept a mana heavy hand (2 noble, tundra, trop, wasteland) figuring that as long as he didn't have forked bolt this hand would let me have the mana advantage throughout and I would be in good shape. On his T2 when he wastelanded my tundra and forked bolted both of my nobles I fell way behind. My remaining tropical island didn't cast the string of white spells I drew and when I found another land it was my basic forest. A brainstorm lock a turn later was the writing on the wall. He killed me with 2 gurmag anglers.
Other than losing my head in round 6 I am happy with how I played. I continue to love the deck, and like other deathblade decks it is infinitely tunable which is nice. Putting the same report on the other legacy discussion board.
What do you think of Worship in the sideboard for the Eldrazi, Burn, Maverick and other creature stall type matchups?
Also have you been able to test Tamiyo, Field Researcher?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant