This list is pretty much the standard Sam Black build that we've seen do well in major events. Wish I could've seen it on camera - looks like it lost to Miracles.
One of the reasons I don't like the 4 Thoughtseizes is Miracles. Bolt and persecution give you the additional reach you need to get there.
Funny thing is when i test this deck in cockatrice i never play against RUG. But I must say RUG is really a good Deck
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Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
Lost to Countertop Miracle Deck as expected because the nature of this deck
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Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
This list is pretty much the standard Sam Black build that we've seen do well in major events. Wish I could've seen it on camera - looks like it lost to Miracles.
One of the reasons I don't like the 4 Thoughtseizes is Miracles. Bolt and persecution give you the additional reach you need to get there.
Lost to Counter top Miracle Deck as expected because the nature of this deck
That is the same deck that TheCursedOne posted yesterday. It honesty looks like a competing archetype. What does it take for a deck to become established?
Lost to Countertop Miracle Deck as expected because the nature of this deck
How has the matchup been in your testing?
In mine, it's been 50-75%, and really depends on the opponent.
Fundamentally, I don't think the matchup is "bad", and I also think it is improvable by the addition of Abrupt Decay to either the main board or side board.
What does it take for a deck to become established?
This deck is established to me. It has several strong finishes (including a GP top 8) and tests well. Perhaps the mods should move the thread over there?
I'm actually contacting Warden about it, but I would rather start a whole fresh one. I've run out of room in the OP and I need a second post to complete the match up and sideboard. I also need to add in Humility in card choices.
What are some thoughts on running Abrupt Decay as a SB card for removal? It solves a lot of problems such as Goyf, KotR, and CotV. It doesn't deal with Jace though, but being uncounterable makes it enticing as a 1 or 2-of over O-Ring.
I'm actually contacting Warden about it, but I would rather start a whole fresh one. I've run out of room in the OP and I need a second post to complete the match up and sideboard. I also need to add in Humility in card choices.
What are some thoughts on running Abrupt Decay as a SB card for removal? It solves a lot of problems such as Goyf, KotR, and CotV. It doesn't deal with Jace though, but being uncounterable makes it enticing as a 1 or 2-of over O-Ring.
I never found Jace to be a problem. You can sac guys can hit Jace directly if needed with bombardment.
I've been testing this deck a lot on Cockatrice recently (the list on this page) and I keep finding myself winning in games I feel like I really shouldn't be. Deathrite Shaman just does everything. It feels like the deck attacks from enough angles to grind out games against decks playing defense, and just out-clocks and out-disrupts decks that are trying to play offense.
I'm kind of hoping that a version without white is feasible because having 4 colors just makes Wasteland way too good against us and I think the deck might need a couple more basics. Souls and Sculler have been really good though, even if they are the streaky cards in the deck (either insane or very lackluster), and O-Ring has been awesome. Hymn is probably a decent replacement for Sculler but then the deck needs another Zombie and Blood Artist just isn't one. Anyone got tech for a straight Jund list, or is the white in this deck too good to drop?
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
For discard you can use Rotting Rats from conflux. You get body with unearth ability. It's Like Liliana The Veil but Creature annddd Zombie so the little guy (read Gravecrawler) can cast again and again
Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
I think carrion feeder is the decks weakest link but it helps with gravecrawler and also gives you a way to get recursive creatures into the graveyard, not to mention you can just sac a dude to feeder in response to removal. I think all the discard is a necessary evil to beat combo. The deck looks funny on paper but after you play it it all kinda clicks.
Feeder needs to stay in the deck until another creature similar to him is printed. He provides a lot of what the deck does such as attack for high numbers, triggers Artist, and brings back Gravecrawler. His position is precarious, but important.
Discard is what actually keeps the deck going. There's so much of it that your opponent is just top decking by the time they are ready to do anything. The version Sam plays is more mid range that murders combo, while the more aggressive version TheChosen One plays is more for control and opposing creature based metas by slicing 4 discard for 4 more ways to deal more damage.
Thats funny lotus, i did the same thing... Im testing the 2/2 split but I keep an extra artist in the board. They're super bomb alot of the time (and i dont have a bayou...), but they dont do nearly enough versus combo decks that dont care about life total
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Hi, I'm new to the site, but I'm a long time player. I absolutely love this deck, and have been having pretty good success with this testing with my friends and the local scene. Here is the list I am running:
I love maindeck Bobs as I feel the card advantage combined with Faithless Looting and Lingering Souls is just nuts. Also I moved Blood Artist to my SB, as I was underwhelmed with him most of the time. He usually sees play against Burn decks only.
Hi, I'm new to the site, but I'm a long time player. I absolutely love this deck, and have been having pretty good success with this testing with my friends and the local scene. Here is the list I am running:
I love maindeck Bobs as I feel the card advantage combined with Faithless Looting and Lingering Souls is just nuts. Also I moved Blood Artist to my SB, as I was underwhelmed with him most of the time. He usually sees play against Burn decks only.
Bob is a great card and if your meta allows it then I would play him MD. The only real problem he brings is that he is removed quickly. Most of our creatures kind of fly below the radar of removal.
I'm warming up to the idea of Abrupt Decay a lot. Perhaps it should replace the Zealous Persecutions in my list. Mana is a little tricky though.
Let me know how that goes. I know this deck needs some kind of removal. I feel Zealous can be better against certain decks, but Decay is probably best in unknown metas because of the uncounterability. Zealous brings the faster clock and kills Mom, so in Maverick and D&T heavy metas I would keep Zealous.
Probably better in the SB, but you can get anythign you want just for sacrificing a bloodghast that'll probably come back on the same turn.
That said, I'm theorycrafting with Diabolic Intent.
Not sure if Intent would bring something to the table that we already don't have or need. Tutors are best for combo decks, but that could just be an EDH thing. Test away!
Observations:
1. I hate carrion feeder. I'm never happy to have him, and I've never gotten more than 2 damage in with him. He has saved a gravecrawler once or twice from StP, but that's it. Mutavault and tidehollow sculler have been much better for recurring, and bombardment is much better as a sac outlet. I think he's out for something else.
2. My sideboard is a mess and should not be taken seriously.
3. You can win through a ton of hate, if they're playing something slower.
4. I love when people play standstill. If the mana weren't already borderline (and I do need to switch a land or two for fetches), I'd put blue in just to play it myself, after dumping a bloodghast or two in the yard.
5. Abrupt decay always feels useless when I have it, and the only thing I want to pull when I don't. If anything, my real complaint is that 2 mana is a lot to hold up in this.
6. Seriously, every win feels like a miracle, but they just keep coming. You'll be nearly dead to rights but with a bombardment out, then looting happens to pull up 2 bloodghasts, which you can ditch, pop back out with a fetch, swing, and then sac twice for 8 damage completely pulled out of nowhere.
Notably bad matchup: Tron. None of your disruption can hit the relevant stuff, and crop rotation is just done in response to any discard. Then you get hit with Ulamog and they gain 15 life off glimmerposts. Does anybody even have a clue what to do here?
Notably bad matchup: Tron. None of your disruption can hit the relevant stuff, and crop rotation is just done in response to any discard. Then you get hit with Ulamog and they gain 15 life off glimmerposts. Does anybody even have a clue what to do here?
You can try Everlasting torment, I'm surprised people play Tron in legacy though.
Anyone crazy enough to try Bridge from Below? With all the sacrificing, easy to toss into the graveyard abilities, recurring effects that help gravecrawler, think it can be a 1 or 2 of in here?
You can try Everlasting torment, I'm surprised people play Tron in legacy though.
Anyone crazy enough to try Bridge from Below? With all the sacrificing, easy to toss into the graveyard abilities, recurring effects that help gravecrawler, think it can be a 1 or 2 of in here?
Interesting idea. Bridge would certainly give you some extra reach, and does assure that Gravecrawler recurs. I feel it might be a bit win-more though. If I'm in a position where I'm recurring Gravecrawler multiple times per turn with Bombardment in play, the game is usually over anyway. I can also see times where Bridge would be a dead card sitting in your hand. Could be worth a shot though.
Bridge makes this deck a bit too grave-centric. This deck can fight grave hate right now just by playing standard old creatures and turning sideways, but you add bridge and your that much weaker.
Plus you want to bombard your opponents creatures, which is counter to bridge.
If anything not having lightning bolt seems wrong in a red deck.
It was commented earlier that BoB is a lightning (bolt) rod in this deck, letting their removal be worth a full card whereas the rest of the deck is removal resistant.
That's true for bolt, so against RUG and such, but with UW miracles or stoneforge decks (huge parts of the mirror) their removal is Swords or terminus. The CA that bob gives is great for fighting miracles, but that might make it a sideboard card depending on preference.
Also, bob works well as an extra old fashioned removal target if you're playing deathrite.
I don't have a firm list right now, as there are so many good cards. It seems best to go 4 color, but it also feels greedy. If BRWG mana works, then it seems like it could also work to go BRw and run urborg's and wastelands.
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Here is a list that made top 8 of SCG Open New Orleans:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50379
This list is pretty much the standard Sam Black build that we've seen do well in major events. Wish I could've seen it on camera - looks like it lost to Miracles.
One of the reasons I don't like the 4 Thoughtseizes is Miracles. Bolt and persecution give you the additional reach you need to get there.
You won an ID, I haven't a clue what tournament that is.
Not sure where you see ID - it was an IQ (Invitational Qualifier)
Funny thing is when i test this deck in cockatrice i never play against RUG. But I must say RUG is really a good Deck
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeMaindeck:
Artifact Creatures
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
Enchantments
3 Goblin Bombardment
Instants
1 Abrupt Decay
Sorceries
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
Basic Lands
2 Swamp
Lands
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
1 Meekstone
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dark Confidant
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
2 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Perish
Lost to Countertop Miracle Deck as expected because the nature of this deck
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeThat is the same deck that TheCursedOne posted yesterday. It honesty looks like a competing archetype. What does it take for a deck to become established?
How has the matchup been in your testing?
In mine, it's been 50-75%, and really depends on the opponent.
Fundamentally, I don't think the matchup is "bad", and I also think it is improvable by the addition of Abrupt Decay to either the main board or side board.
This deck is established to me. It has several strong finishes (including a GP top 8) and tests well. Perhaps the mods should move the thread over there?
What are some thoughts on running Abrupt Decay as a SB card for removal? It solves a lot of problems such as Goyf, KotR, and CotV. It doesn't deal with Jace though, but being uncounterable makes it enticing as a 1 or 2-of over O-Ring.
I never found Jace to be a problem. You can sac guys can hit Jace directly if needed with bombardment.
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I'm kind of hoping that a version without white is feasible because having 4 colors just makes Wasteland way too good against us and I think the deck might need a couple more basics. Souls and Sculler have been really good though, even if they are the streaky cards in the deck (either insane or very lackluster), and O-Ring has been awesome. Hymn is probably a decent replacement for Sculler but then the deck needs another Zombie and Blood Artist just isn't one. Anyone got tech for a straight Jund list, or is the white in this deck too good to drop?
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeDiscard is what actually keeps the deck going. There's so much of it that your opponent is just top decking by the time they are ready to do anything. The version Sam plays is more mid range that murders combo, while the more aggressive version TheChosen One plays is more for control and opposing creature based metas by slicing 4 discard for 4 more ways to deal more damage.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Goblin Bombardment
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
My SB
3 Blood Artist
2 Perish
2 Disenchant
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Pithing Needle
I love maindeck Bobs as I feel the card advantage combined with Faithless Looting and Lingering Souls is just nuts. Also I moved Blood Artist to my SB, as I was underwhelmed with him most of the time. He usually sees play against Burn decks only.
Probably better in the SB, but you can get anythign you want just for sacrificing a bloodghast that'll probably come back on the same turn.
That said, I'm theorycrafting with Diabolic Intent.
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Actually, I keep forgetting about Shaman. I haven't acquired them yet.
Bob is a great card and if your meta allows it then I would play him MD. The only real problem he brings is that he is removed quickly. Most of our creatures kind of fly below the radar of removal.
Let me know how that goes. I know this deck needs some kind of removal. I feel Zealous can be better against certain decks, but Decay is probably best in unknown metas because of the uncounterability. Zealous brings the faster clock and kills Mom, so in Maverick and D&T heavy metas I would keep Zealous.
Not sure if Intent would bring something to the table that we already don't have or need. Tutors are best for combo decks, but that could just be an EDH thing. Test away!
4 Bloodghast
2 Carrion Feeder
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Enchanments:
2 Bitterblossom
4 Lingering Souls
3 Goblin Bombardment
Spells:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Thoughtseize
3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Undiscovered Paradise
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mutavault
2 Bayou
1 Darkblast
2 Disenchant
2 Go for the Throat
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Humility
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Angel of Despair
1 Abrupt Decay
Observations:
1. I hate carrion feeder. I'm never happy to have him, and I've never gotten more than 2 damage in with him. He has saved a gravecrawler once or twice from StP, but that's it. Mutavault and tidehollow sculler have been much better for recurring, and bombardment is much better as a sac outlet. I think he's out for something else.
2. My sideboard is a mess and should not be taken seriously.
3. You can win through a ton of hate, if they're playing something slower.
4. I love when people play standstill. If the mana weren't already borderline (and I do need to switch a land or two for fetches), I'd put blue in just to play it myself, after dumping a bloodghast or two in the yard.
5. Abrupt decay always feels useless when I have it, and the only thing I want to pull when I don't. If anything, my real complaint is that 2 mana is a lot to hold up in this.
6. Seriously, every win feels like a miracle, but they just keep coming. You'll be nearly dead to rights but with a bombardment out, then looting happens to pull up 2 bloodghasts, which you can ditch, pop back out with a fetch, swing, and then sac twice for 8 damage completely pulled out of nowhere.
Notably bad matchup: Tron. None of your disruption can hit the relevant stuff, and crop rotation is just done in response to any discard. Then you get hit with Ulamog and they gain 15 life off glimmerposts. Does anybody even have a clue what to do here?
You can try Everlasting torment, I'm surprised people play Tron in legacy though.
Anyone crazy enough to try Bridge from Below? With all the sacrificing, easy to toss into the graveyard abilities, recurring effects that help gravecrawler, think it can be a 1 or 2 of in here?
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Interesting idea. Bridge would certainly give you some extra reach, and does assure that Gravecrawler recurs. I feel it might be a bit win-more though. If I'm in a position where I'm recurring Gravecrawler multiple times per turn with Bombardment in play, the game is usually over anyway. I can also see times where Bridge would be a dead card sitting in your hand. Could be worth a shot though.
Plus you want to bombard your opponents creatures, which is counter to bridge.
If anything not having lightning bolt seems wrong in a red deck.
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That's true for bolt, so against RUG and such, but with UW miracles or stoneforge decks (huge parts of the mirror) their removal is Swords or terminus. The CA that bob gives is great for fighting miracles, but that might make it a sideboard card depending on preference.
Also, bob works well as an extra old fashioned removal target if you're playing deathrite.
I don't have a firm list right now, as there are so many good cards. It seems best to go 4 color, but it also feels greedy. If BRWG mana works, then it seems like it could also work to go BRw and run urborg's and wastelands.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation