I usually show and tell in a land and lol while they exile one of their own enchantments.
Targetted discard also proves useful in dealing with this. Alternatively, you can burning wish for an enchantment hate card.
S&Ting a land doesn't particularly help you, as it still means you're down one show and tell that you managed to successfully resolve, without gaining anything.
Most lists aren't running discard, and I don't see any sorc-speed enchantment hate in most common boards.
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On topic: Why isn't this in the Established decks yet? Isn't this deck like, the second or third most highly-played deck right now?
Also, what do you do when your opponent Enlightened Tutors into Detention Sphere/Oblivion Ring. Seems to me like that pretty well bones your chances of successfully sticking Omni or Emrakul. It means you basically have to stick Grisel and hope to draw into another S&T, unless I'm missing something?
On why this isn't in Established right now: Because I'm lazy, I haven't made a primer, and I haven't messaged Warden. Apparently, this worked for Krimson Viper and Zombardment, so maybe by the end of this month, it might work for me!
On fighting Oblivion Ring: ...Yeah, there's a reason I didn't cover this case in the OP. You're pretty much boned out of a Show and Tell. Your only response is Brainstorm or making Griselbrand Rip 7. (...Or put Stifles in the board if you see this all the time. Or expand your black splash from Massacre to Thoughtseize. Or get angry enough to put Eye of Nowhere in the wishboard.)
I'm not sure whether a more mature version of this thread should cover all versions of Omniscience.dec or just UR ones, but this made Top 4 at SCG Denver:
It does seem to cover some of the UR version's weaknesses--namely, the fact that deck only wins by resolving Show and Tell. Yeah, that card lets all sorts of nasty stuff enter the battlefield. However, that's one horrid mana base.
This is the list I have been testing and its working out great for me. What I would like to do is make a URG with Burning Wish's as well because I think it may be more consistant. Just not sure what to drop.
The bad news: I'm still not done the primer. University's over for the year, so I'll likely have some more time to finish the card descriptions and get the full decklists (I know I'll put in my list, another RUG, a UBR, an Omni-Sneak, a Rector-Living Wish, and maybe an ancient mono-blue), but I don't think I'll have enough time to do match-ups (I'm still completing match-ups for another primer, and I've done them so intermittently that one of them is already outdated), and I'm still studying for exams until even later into December.
The good news: I have enough time to do this little guide to What to Defensively Cheat in When Your Opponent Casts Show and Tell!
Let's assume you waged a massive counter war over the Show and Tell and lost it.
Obviously, you cheat in your biggest thing if you've only got one of them available, but what if you have all of Emrakul, Griselbrand, and Omni in hand? (Or at least two of them--you'd be surprised how quickly you can get 2 out of 3 in hand.)
This is inspired from my playing Omni against an anticipated post-Gatecrash version of Dream Halls (Enter the Infinite really lifts so many deckbuilding restrictions for that deck--the thing is that I can't turn all my win cons into Wishes and pull all the Progenituses at the same time) against myself on Cockatrice.
To make things simpler, we'll assume your opponent is not on Reanimator--i.e. you're against one of Sneak Show, Hive Mind, Dream Halls, or the Omni mirror. (Though yeah, running your big thing into Angel of Despair against Reanimator sucks.)
I'll now give each possibility of what to cheat in and how each option fares against what your opponent might bring out:
Emrakul: ...And your opponent wasted a Show and Tell. Pretty good! (The two Emmys tie, but that's already pretty good.)
Griselbrand: Your opponent likely tapped out or got pretty close, so unless s/he missed a land drop, s/he probably won't draw another combo and the mana to back it up with Grisel. Even then, what's the chance s/he draws into a Sol land and a Lotus Petal? Emrakul will run over your opponent next turn. (Emrakul wins...most likely.)
Progenitus: Proggy's a joke against quite a few decks, including Omni, and that's why I'm trying to strip him from post-GTC Dream Halls entirely. Sure, Proggy swings first, but Emmy eats him and all the opposing lands right afterwards. (Emrakul wins.)
Hive Mind: Emrakul doesn't have haste, good Hive Mind players don't pass priority, Hive Mind stops counterspells from working like you want them to, and they'll only cast Show and Tell if you can't pay for all the Pacts. (Emrakul loses.)
Dream Halls: Emrakul doesn't have haste again, and you most likely can't do a thing about what they Conflux or Enter the Infinite into after you lost the counter war. (Emrakul loses.)
Omniscience: If your opponent goes into another Emmy, s/he still has the edge (take another turn, still have an Omni). If s/he goes into Grisel, s/he wins. If s/he goes into Burning Wish, s/he wins. I wouldn't gamble on those odds. (Emrakul loses.)
Emrakul: Draw 14 at EOT and combo off in their face as soon as you untap, baby. (Griselbrand wins.)
Griselbrand: ...And your opponent wasted a SnT again, and neither of you could draw cards in response because of state-based actions. (Another tie, but ties are pretty good.)
Progenitus: Proggy swings for 10. Griselbrand not only swings for 7 with Lifelink, he also Draws 7-14. You can probably win through being Bolted every turn with a Griselbrand out. (Griselbrand wins.)
Hive Mind: Sadly, the counterspells you draw will not save you from Pacts, so you're hooped again. (Griselbrand loses.)
Dream Halls: Your opponent will try casting something after s/he cheats in Dream Halls, and you can probably draw into another Force of Will (or another counterspell if you still have mana up) in response. (Griselbrand wins.)
Omniscience: You can keep your opponent from casting anything but Emrakul afterwards. If your opponent gets in Emrakul, you're probably hooped. If your opponent attempts to get in anything else, just Draw 7-14 and LOL. (Griselbrand wins more than half the time, though!)
Emrakul: Got Emrakul? You'll gain the edge. Got Griselbrand? You win. Got Burning Wish? You win. Got cantrips? Pray that you don't fizzle trying to get win cons. Got nothing? You're hooped. (I haven't fully figured out the odds for this one, but I think Omni's half-and-half here.)
Griselbrand: Got Emrakul? You just might pull this one out, as you get to take an extra turn with Emmy and smash your opponent's board. Got anything else? You lose. (Omni likely loses.)
Progenitus: At least Proggy doesn't eat the present (your board presence) or kill the future (your hand). You've got 2 turns to get out of this alive with an Omni, and I'm pretty sure you can do it with your mad cantrip suite or your win cons. (Omni wins.)
Hive Mind: Is plain losing to Hive Mind a theme? You can't do anything to stop the march of the Pacts, even when you can cast anything for free! (Omni loses.)
Dream Halls: Better have the counterspell to hose their big spell. Seeing as you probably lost most or all of your counterspells to your opponent's SnT, only Brainstorm, Intuition, FoW on no blue cards, or some non-free counterspell (if you tapped out during the counter war) can save you now. And Brainstorm and non-free counterspells don't even come with guarantees. (Omni likely loses.)
Omniscience: All you can do to defend yourself now is get a counterspell. Your only options are Brainstorm, Intuition, FoW on no blue cards, and whatever instant-speed answer you couldn't tap lands for. Counterspells lose to Emrakul but keep you alive against anything else. Sadly, I'm usually pretty drained at this point cards-wise, so I don't like those odds. (Your Omni likely loses.)
Overall, Griselbrand wins you the game against the most possibilities of what your opponent cheats in, so if this guide teaches you anything, it's to defensively shove in Griselbrand against SnT-packing opponents. Emrakul generally wins against Sneak Show and has a fair chance to lose against the other decks, while Omniscience heavily depends on your hand and performs fairly poorly against creatures, but it may have a fighting chance against blue enchantments.
Hopefully, this guide may help you in the Show and Tell-based combo mirror!
I still prefer Ancient Tomb over City of Traitors, but in long games, the life loss can get to you. I've sometimes ended games against other combo decks at around 10-14 life--and those are decks that don't try doming me for 3 damage a turn.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Thanks for writing the primer Lectry. I have just started picking this deck up after trading away all the pieces of a U/R painter deck and it's been awesome.
Thanks for writing the primer Lectry. I have just started picking this deck up after trading away all the pieces of a U/R painter deck and it's been awesome.
Great list! I run quite the same one, but no gitaxian probe. 2 Jace and 2 Personal tutor. The sideboard looks great too, and eye of no where is a great idea, will include one.
What was your worse matchup? I actually always loose against dreadstill, UGR delver... Their flusterstorm are just killers.
Was thinking about vendilion clique mainboard sometimes to protect a little the combo.
There's not much you can do about a flusterstorm on your grapeshot. Just filter/Time of Need for an Emrakul or Griselbrand and then drop it as an alternate win con. Shouldn't be too difficult if you already got omniscience in play.
Against goblins, wish for pyroclasms and survive to drop another show and tell. It's not easy if they are lucky enough to draw their angels, but this deck is able to survive one hate (you're really unlucky if they draw both their angels).
I have not played this deck enough to make a judgment call on what is its worst matchups, sorry! What I can observe is that it really boils down to a lot of luck on whether the opponent draws their hate or manage to discard/counter you to the point of no return.
Also for the sideboard, Grapeshot can be bad depending the match-up, I will rather choose ''tendrils of agony'' because it is loss of life and not damages, means it can't be prevented.
Thoughtseize version is also good, might retest this version.
Past in flames can also be a great card in the sideboard.
What matchup are you worried about preventing damage though? I'd plan on seeing gaddock teeg about 10 times as often as 38 Lands with glacial chasm or anything.
EDIT: My bad, I take that back. There's Miracles with Energy Field or Enchantress with Solitary Confinement. But Tendrils does nothing vs Solitary Confinement either and you just get Time of Need vs Energy Field and then Emrakul eats it.
Question- what is the use of Polluted Deltas and Flooded Strands with no Swamps or Plains, and why are there more cards that search basic lands than basic lands?
You cast Brainstorm and draw two Force of Will and a Brainstorm. You can now put both extra fetlands on top of your library, then activate the one in play even if you "fail to find" a land. This shuffles away two future bad draws and gets you that much closer to your win condition.
Thoughts?
- I like the 20 lands with all the Wasteland strategies going around
- Is it worth trying cutting Jace, the mind sculptor for something else? - -
- Maybe go all in with 4 copies of Lotus petal?
- I like the 3 thoughtseize in the main
How did you get the 23rd place list? I'd like to see it as well as I am trying to WBUG Omnitell over Sneak and Show right now.
I'm guessing WBUG isn't as popular due to the mana base not being as consistent. Also, sneak attack tends to avoid more removal than sacrificing an academy rector and needing omniscience into a creature.
I'm wondering what everyones opinions are on Enter the Infinite as a wish target. The testing I've done has lead me to believe that it does everything that Time of Need does, with the added bonus of being able to be pitched to force/misdirection.
Hi guys. I've been piloting this deck for a about 3 days now. I've found a very nice tech I think I may want to share with you all to bounce ideas of off each other so we can see whether of not if my idea is worthy of a change. Here is my deck:
Originally, I thought the black splash to Thoughtseize was a good idea, but as I play matches against Blue tempo/control decks, people are able to brainstorm away sometimes their cards to keep me from hitting it if I happen to go off next turn. They will have a counter spell when I go off. For this reason, I like the card, Overmaster because it keeps blue decks in check.
I've decided to add Spell Pierce in the main 60 because I wanted to have extra protection although Overmaster provides me this. In any case, having 2 extra counter spells are useful in any match-up if I don't combo off immediately.
Although, sometimes I wonder if taking Spell Pierce and 1 Omniscience out instead putting 2 or 3 Academy Rectors in with one Tundra. Take out an Island. Put in Flooded Stand. Would that be a good idea too? Are Spell Pierce too much?
My only concern really is dealing with decks that have a lot of discard and tempo that makes creatures tough to deal with. Are there any other better destroy all creatures cards out there for red or blue that i could try?
Also, does anyone know of any blue or red spells that are sorcery which allows you to grab a enchantment from the deck and put it into one's hand or the top of the deck?
I would be careful about going all in on Griselbrand. The problem is that a draw 7 doesn't always get you there without Omniscience behind it. The other problem is that Swords to Plowshares is still a card.
I think Intuition is the closest thing to the tutor effect you're looking for.
---
So, has anyone been testing the mono-blue version? A sample list, for reference:
The lines are essentially the same, except that you can't S&T Enter the Infinite. But Dream Halls does a passable impression of Burning Wish for Show and Tell, with the upside being that it dodges the most common S&T hate such as Oblivion Ring, Angel of Despair, etc. Any thoughts?
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Yea, I've considered -1 Griselbrand, but the idea is if we show & tell Griselbrand, we're bound to win soon. If they choose to Swords to Plowshare it, we can always activate Griselbrand's ability to hope to draw a counter. If we don't get a counter, we might even draw the combo cards and go off again if we happen to draw another show and tell with Omniscience, etc. I feel like this version of the deck gives me so much control over my situation that i can do everything i want or like to instead of relying on sheer luck of the draw.
I've tried Intuition, and it is nice, but they can always surgical extract whatever you drop in your graveyard if it is game 2, etc. It's not a bad idea though. I couldn't just run 1 though.
I've added 2 Trinkbind and 1 Misdirection for the sake of countering cards like Oblivion Ring and so fourth. An extra counter always help against RUG matches, which are very annoying and skill intensive.
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S&Ting a land doesn't particularly help you, as it still means you're down one show and tell that you managed to successfully resolve, without gaining anything.
Most lists aren't running discard, and I don't see any sorc-speed enchantment hate in most common boards.
Currently Playing:
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EDH Cube
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On why this isn't in Established right now: Because I'm lazy, I haven't made a primer, and I haven't messaged Warden. Apparently, this worked for Krimson Viper and Zombardment, so maybe by the end of this month, it might work for me!
On fighting Oblivion Ring: ...Yeah, there's a reason I didn't cover this case in the OP. You're pretty much boned out of a Show and Tell. Your only response is Brainstorm or making Griselbrand Rip 7. (...Or put Stifles in the board if you see this all the time. Or expand your black splash from Massacre to Thoughtseize. Or get angry enough to put Eye of Nowhere in the wishboard.)
This is the list I have been testing and its working out great for me. What I would like to do is make a URG with Burning Wish's as well because I think it may be more consistant. Just not sure what to drop.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
The good news: I have enough time to do this little guide to What to Defensively Cheat in When Your Opponent Casts Show and Tell!
Let's assume you waged a massive counter war over the Show and Tell and lost it.
Obviously, you cheat in your biggest thing if you've only got one of them available, but what if you have all of Emrakul, Griselbrand, and Omni in hand? (Or at least two of them--you'd be surprised how quickly you can get 2 out of 3 in hand.)
This is inspired from my playing Omni against an anticipated post-Gatecrash version of Dream Halls (Enter the Infinite really lifts so many deckbuilding restrictions for that deck--the thing is that I can't turn all my win cons into Wishes and pull all the Progenituses at the same time) against myself on Cockatrice.
To make things simpler, we'll assume your opponent is not on Reanimator--i.e. you're against one of Sneak Show, Hive Mind, Dream Halls, or the Omni mirror. (Though yeah, running your big thing into Angel of Despair against Reanimator sucks.)
I'll now give each possibility of what to cheat in and how each option fares against what your opponent might bring out:
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Hopefully, this guide may help you in the Show and Tell-based combo mirror!
It seems like I always want a Tomb over the City... why not 4/1?
-Warden
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
That said I do want to make an esper build as it feels stronger then my plan to revive trix.
Cabal therapy, rector, win.
You are all welcome
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Edit: I'll use this post to park my decklist.
Updated 13/5/13
2 Griselbrand
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Other Spells (37):
2 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
2 Overmaster
1 Personal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Burning Wish
4 Daze
3 Show and Tell
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Omniscience
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Shattering Spree
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Defense Grid
2 Pyroclasm
1 Enter the Infinite
1 Show and Tell
3 Leyline of Sanctity
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Great list! I run quite the same one, but no gitaxian probe. 2 Jace and 2 Personal tutor. The sideboard looks great too, and eye of no where is a great idea, will include one.
What was your worse matchup? I actually always loose against dreadstill, UGR delver... Their flusterstorm are just killers.
Was thinking about vendilion clique mainboard sometimes to protect a little the combo.
Against goblins, wish for pyroclasms and survive to drop another show and tell. It's not easy if they are lucky enough to draw their angels, but this deck is able to survive one hate (you're really unlucky if they draw both their angels).
I have not played this deck enough to make a judgment call on what is its worst matchups, sorry! What I can observe is that it really boils down to a lot of luck on whether the opponent draws their hate or manage to discard/counter you to the point of no return.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Thoughtseize version is also good, might retest this version.
Past in flames can also be a great card in the sideboard.
EDIT: My bad, I take that back. There's Miracles with Energy Field or Enchantress with Solitary Confinement. But Tendrils does nothing vs Solitary Confinement either and you just get Time of Need vs Energy Field and then Emrakul eats it.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
You run additional fetchlands (Polluted Delta) for it's interaction with Brainstorm
Let's say you have an ample amount of lands on board, and Show and Tell, Brainstorm and two extra fetchlands in hand. You are digging for protection for Show an Tell, like Thoughtseize or Force of Will and a fatty like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Griselbrand.
You cast Brainstorm and draw two Force of Will and a Brainstorm. You can now put both extra fetlands on top of your library, then activate the one in play even if you "fail to find" a land. This shuffles away two future bad draws and gets you that much closer to your win condition.
3rd place Omni-tell
- ran 20 lands
- 1 Tropical Island (producing green)
- 1 Army of the Damned in the sideboard
- 1 Blasphemous Act in the sideboard
- 1 Personal Tutor in the main
16th place Omni-tell
- 2 overmaster main board
- no sideboard information available
23rd place Omni tell
- 3 Thoughtseize, 4th copy in sideboard
- 2 Underground Sea
- 1 Intuition main
Thoughts?
- I like the 20 lands with all the Wasteland strategies going around
- Is it worth trying cutting Jace, the mind sculptor for something else? - -
- Maybe go all in with 4 copies of Lotus petal?
- I like the 3 thoughtseize in the main
I'm guessing WBUG isn't as popular due to the mana base not being as consistent. Also, sneak attack tends to avoid more removal than sacrificing an academy rector and needing omniscience into a creature.
I've got to figure out why people are picking up Army of the Damned for the Wishboard.
I've seen Blasphemous Act on MTGO Wishboards, and that does seem like an interesting card. It's like a red Wrath against some decks.
4 Griselbrand
4 Omniscience
3 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Burning Wish
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Lotus Petal
3 Overmaster
2 Personal Tutor
2 Spell Pierce
3 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Show and Tell
1 Petals of Insight
1 Grapeshot
3 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Army of the Damned
1 ? (Overmaster) ?
Original deck:
I've decided that to take out Thoughtseize, Underground Sea, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn & Time of Need, which were in my original Omni-tell deck because I believe this deck relies on winning through Show and Tell & Omniscience.
Originally, I thought the black splash to Thoughtseize was a good idea, but as I play matches against Blue tempo/control decks, people are able to brainstorm away sometimes their cards to keep me from hitting it if I happen to go off next turn. They will have a counter spell when I go off. For this reason, I like the card, Overmaster because it keeps blue decks in check.
I've decided to add Spell Pierce in the main 60 because I wanted to have extra protection although Overmaster provides me this. In any case, having 2 extra counter spells are useful in any match-up if I don't combo off immediately.
Although, sometimes I wonder if taking Spell Pierce and 1 Omniscience out instead putting 2 or 3 Academy Rectors in with one Tundra. Take out an Island. Put in Flooded Stand. Would that be a good idea too? Are Spell Pierce too much?
My only concern really is dealing with decks that have a lot of discard and tempo that makes creatures tough to deal with. Are there any other better destroy all creatures cards out there for red or blue that i could try?
Also, does anyone know of any blue or red spells that are sorcery which allows you to grab a enchantment from the deck and put it into one's hand or the top of the deck?
I think Intuition is the closest thing to the tutor effect you're looking for.
---
So, has anyone been testing the mono-blue version? A sample list, for reference:
4 Omniscience
4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Personal Tutor
1 Intuition
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
8 Fetchlands
7 Island
The lines are essentially the same, except that you can't S&T Enter the Infinite. But Dream Halls does a passable impression of Burning Wish for Show and Tell, with the upside being that it dodges the most common S&T hate such as Oblivion Ring, Angel of Despair, etc. Any thoughts?
4 Griselbrand
4 Omniscience
3 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Burning Wish
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Lotus Petal
2 Overmaster
2 Personal Tutor
2 Spell Pierce
3 Polluted Delta
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Show and Tell
1 Petals of Insight
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trinkbind
1 Overmaster
1 Misdirection
Yea, I've considered -1 Griselbrand, but the idea is if we show & tell Griselbrand, we're bound to win soon. If they choose to Swords to Plowshare it, we can always activate Griselbrand's ability to hope to draw a counter. If we don't get a counter, we might even draw the combo cards and go off again if we happen to draw another show and tell with Omniscience, etc. I feel like this version of the deck gives me so much control over my situation that i can do everything i want or like to instead of relying on sheer luck of the draw.
I've tried Intuition, and it is nice, but they can always surgical extract whatever you drop in your graveyard if it is game 2, etc. It's not a bad idea though. I couldn't just run 1 though.
I've added 2 Trinkbind and 1 Misdirection for the sake of countering cards like Oblivion Ring and so fourth. An extra counter always help against RUG matches, which are very annoying and skill intensive.