All suggestions are welcome. If there are any cards I should take out, please say which ones and why, as well as good replacement cards. If there are quantities that need tweaking, please mention those too.
The following cards are already on my "to obtain" list:
4xGoblin Pilediver
4xAEther Vial
Thanks in advance!
And honestly, you're like probably a few cards away from an optimized competitive goblin deck (say what you want, but seeing goblins out of nowhere in this meta is still a pain to fight through)
I think part of the reason goblins competes is because of ports/thalia/wasteland to mana deny your opponent. Goblins isn't in a great position these days regardless. White also gives you stuff like wear and tear and rest in peace to help deal with enchantments. In alot of ways you are like a death and taxes deck..without the taxes part. You can still win games but a super fast combo deck like belcher or oops can really make you feel helpless.
If you want to play an all in red deck with creatures (so not burn), I'd like at this thread --Sligh.
It's still primarily a goblin deck at heart--it uses grenades like you do and reckless abandon to boot. It pushes its burn to a higher level like burn itself does with fireblast, to take advantage of having a full mountain mana base. The biggest difference is it is more resilient against lackie being removed. I had all the cards minus the goblin guides (I put swiftspear in their place) and just fish bowling, I could almost always win by turn 3 or 4. It was often do 2 damage on turn 2, and then swing for 6 on turn 3--then drop a fireblast, grendade, and a bolt for another 12 out of no where--good game. Instead of higher casting cost cards that are good in grindy games, like Ringleader, you can explode earlier in the game.
I guess the argument I am making is instead of getting cards that are great with a grindy deck like vials, for a fraction of the price you can just play sligh and slowly work your way into the deck you want to play. That's what I've done myself with other decks.
I play goblins quite regularly with the normal list (albeit retired it for the last few months in favor of miracles). I would suggest cutting all 4 lightning bolts. If you go full blown aggro without any special lands or vials I would do this:
Lightning bolt is unfetchable with Matron and cannot be drawn with Ringleader... most things in legacy have a butt of 2, or something much higher than lightning bolt is not relevant. Instigator Does some super busted things, like play a matron searching for a Krenko then playing a Krenko. I just don't like Goblin Grenade much, but if you do love it then run 4, but Mogg War-Marshal makes the card much better.
Also for sideboard...
3-4 Pyrokinesis (probably 4 since you are mono-red)
Also look into getting a hold of 4x Cavern of Souls, Goblin Piledriver actually is not that good in aggro goblins, he's great in control lists as he can burst out 20 in one turn T4 or T5 after denying their mana with Wasteland and Rishadan Port but in an aggro list with Chieftain, usually Mogg War-Marshal and the Instigator are better.
Currently playing: Legacy: RUB Grixis Delver | RUGB 4c Control Modern: UR Affinity | RWG Burn EDH: R Krenko Combo | UR Mizzix WomboCombo | U Arcum Daggson Combo | WUBG Atraxa Dumpster Fire French Duels EDH: BUG Leovold, Emissary of Trest Prison Standard: Standard Sucks
Hmmm... Interesting. I will have to give this some thought. If the Goblin deck starts looking too high end (which is likely as Wasteland runs at $40 and Rishadan Port $70), I might go over to the other decks that caught my eye in legacy: manaless dredge and sacland-tendrils, and resign my Goblins to casual play only.
That's the traditional goblin list route at least. It focuses on denial to let you cast 3 and 4 casting cost spells. Just about every deck in legacy packs some form of denial (be it discard, countermagic, or mana denial) or blazing speed. If you look at the proper goblin lists in the actual goblin thread, they run Thalia often in the board to help with that plan.
The biggest unknown is your meta game, but I was assuming a well developed metagame.
The most interesting lists I've seen is actually not goblins proper but all in red or sometimes called dragon stompy. They use trinisphere with stuff like ancient tomb and simian spirit guides to power it out, as well as blood moon. Blood moon can wreck alot of decks in legacy, so between Magus and real bloodmoon and trinisphere, you can really slow the game down. It uses stuff like Goblin Rabblemaster from standard with Piledriver for the win. It is less about lackie and more about putting a fast clock with higher casting cost guys as well as red plainswalkers. City of Traitors isn't budget but ancient tomb is at least cheaper than wasteland or ports--its got some decent play with chalice of the void as well, if you happen to own a place set.
I was reluctant to mention it because it uses almost none of the traditional cards in goblins which your list is similar too besides piledriver, krenko, and sometimes siege commander. I think it only centers on goblins to make use of cavern of souls and being uncounterable.
I also wouldn't recommend going manaless dredge... with the printing of Containment Priest, a huge wide sweeping white hate card on cheating creatures into play (dredge, sneak/show, reanimator, etc) it has really become a prominent presence in the meta as it hits multiple decks at instant speed, freeing up their boards as they used to have to split up their board between all the different unfair decks. Manaless dredge used to be played at my LGS with great success but it isn't even played here at all anymore since the printing... Regular dredge can still be played though... I just don't see how you can play Manaless dredge with a card like Containment Priest and when one of your worst matchups is generally the most played deck in Magic (Miracles).
You can definitely try the aggro route in legacy, and it may work especially with 4 Pyrokinesis in the board, but Kilplow is right that you really need the denial of resources to combat a lot of the unfair decks like Food Chain or Sneak/Show. Nothing better than wastelanding a Tundra and the guy never drawing another white source with a Stoneforge Mystic in play and a Batterskull in hand.
Here is the meta from the last SCG IQ, which should help you shape your deck choices (as you can pick a deck strong against the most played decks):
Currently playing: Legacy: RUB Grixis Delver | RUGB 4c Control Modern: UR Affinity | RWG Burn EDH: R Krenko Combo | UR Mizzix WomboCombo | U Arcum Daggson Combo | WUBG Atraxa Dumpster Fire French Duels EDH: BUG Leovold, Emissary of Trest Prison Standard: Standard Sucks
In some ways, legacy demands you interact with your opponent. Blue of course has countermagic, black has discard, and white has some control hatebear type creatures or spells like Thalia or Ethersworn Cannonist--or really anything you see in Death and Taxes. Mono red/Green need to rely on artifacts and lands to get the job done and those tend to be expensive. Essentially, you need some plan to deal with unfair decks or you need to be one yourself. Think Belcher...red/green mana base and a glass cannon that can win often on turn 1 or 2 or Elves that is stronger against FoW. Burn is an interesting exception, but I think its more of a slow combo deck rather than a real agro deck. It just wants to resolve 6 spells--any six spells really to win. It is hard to interact with though than a real combo deck because all its spells do the same thing.
So for a mono red goblin list, you pretty much have your hands tied. The traditional route for goblins is more expensive because it shares so much in common with death and taxes. Alot of goblin lists were even running main deck Thalia (thankfully plateau's were the cheapest of dual lands almost). They had wasteland and port and even vial in common. Goblins could be insanely explosive with Lackie starts, but White has plowshares, and other hate bearers....and can rely heavily on basics.
The all in red is an interesting deck because it has 7 main deck blood moon effects often. That's pretty backbreaking to any greedy deck in legacy. Miracles and Nic Fit run alot of basics--as do Elves, Death and Taxes, The Gate, and Burn. The Trini lock hurts all those decks heavily (besides Fit and let's face it with a 29 percent win percentage, its not your top concern lol) since they rely on cheap spells, as does Chalice. Putting a first turn Trini against burn....basically gives you 3 turns to do whatever you want, and then he can only cast 1 spell a turn. That's crippling for a deck that just wants to count to 20.
The rogue deck I linked in my first post I think it probably the route you want to go on a budget. You give up any semblance of a late game to hit them as hard as you can as fast as you can. I didn't play it extensively, but I had opponents that had never seen it, pass the turn back above 10 life alot and then I could often just explode and kill them with as I mentioned a combination of grenades, reckless abandon, and fireblast. It folds to chalice or counterbalance, but is a hair more dangerous than burn, almost always winning on turn 3, instead of 4.
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Main board:
4xGoblin Lackey
4xGoblin Matron
4xGoblin Ringleader
2xGoblin Warchief
3xGoblin Chieftain
2xSiege-Gang Commander
3xGempalm Incinerator
4xGoblin Wardriver
4xLegion Loyalist
2xKrenko, Mob Boss
4xLightning Bolt
4xGoblin Grenade
20xMountain
Side board:
3xTormod's Crypt
2xPyroblast
2xRuination
3xRatchet Bomb
2xSulfuric Vortex
3xShattering Spree
All suggestions are welcome. If there are any cards I should take out, please say which ones and why, as well as good replacement cards. If there are quantities that need tweaking, please mention those too.
The following cards are already on my "to obtain" list:
4xGoblin Pilediver
4xAEther Vial
Thanks in advance!
My EDH Decks:
Purphoros RRR Goblin Burn
And honestly, you're like probably a few cards away from an optimized competitive goblin deck (say what you want, but seeing goblins out of nowhere in this meta is still a pain to fight through)
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
If you want to play an all in red deck with creatures (so not burn), I'd like at this thread --Sligh.
It's still primarily a goblin deck at heart--it uses grenades like you do and reckless abandon to boot. It pushes its burn to a higher level like burn itself does with fireblast, to take advantage of having a full mountain mana base. The biggest difference is it is more resilient against lackie being removed. I had all the cards minus the goblin guides (I put swiftspear in their place) and just fish bowling, I could almost always win by turn 3 or 4. It was often do 2 damage on turn 2, and then swing for 6 on turn 3--then drop a fireblast, grendade, and a bolt for another 12 out of no where--good game. Instead of higher casting cost cards that are good in grindy games, like Ringleader, you can explode earlier in the game.
I guess the argument I am making is instead of getting cards that are great with a grindy deck like vials, for a fraction of the price you can just play sligh and slowly work your way into the deck you want to play. That's what I've done myself with other decks.
-4x Lightning Bolt
-2x Goblin Wardriver
-3x Goblin Grenade
+3x Warren Instigator
+3x Mogg War-Marshal
+3x Tarfire
Lightning bolt is unfetchable with Matron and cannot be drawn with Ringleader... most things in legacy have a butt of 2, or something much higher than lightning bolt is not relevant. Instigator Does some super busted things, like play a matron searching for a Krenko then playing a Krenko. I just don't like Goblin Grenade much, but if you do love it then run 4, but Mogg War-Marshal makes the card much better.
Also for sideboard...
3-4 Pyrokinesis (probably 4 since you are mono-red)
Also look into getting a hold of 4x Cavern of Souls, Goblin Piledriver actually is not that good in aggro goblins, he's great in control lists as he can burst out 20 in one turn T4 or T5 after denying their mana with Wasteland and Rishadan Port but in an aggro list with Chieftain, usually Mogg War-Marshal and the Instigator are better.
Legacy:
RUB Grixis Delver | RUGB 4c Control
Modern:
UR Affinity | RWG Burn
EDH:
R Krenko Combo | UR Mizzix WomboCombo | U Arcum Daggson Combo | WUBG Atraxa Dumpster Fire
French Duels EDH:
BUG Leovold, Emissary of Trest Prison
Standard:
Standard Sucks
My EDH Decks:
Purphoros RRR Goblin Burn
The biggest unknown is your meta game, but I was assuming a well developed metagame.
The most interesting lists I've seen is actually not goblins proper but all in red or sometimes called dragon stompy. They use trinisphere with stuff like ancient tomb and simian spirit guides to power it out, as well as blood moon. Blood moon can wreck alot of decks in legacy, so between Magus and real bloodmoon and trinisphere, you can really slow the game down. It uses stuff like Goblin Rabblemaster from standard with Piledriver for the win. It is less about lackie and more about putting a fast clock with higher casting cost guys as well as red plainswalkers. City of Traitors isn't budget but ancient tomb is at least cheaper than wasteland or ports--its got some decent play with chalice of the void as well, if you happen to own a place set.
I was reluctant to mention it because it uses almost none of the traditional cards in goblins which your list is similar too besides piledriver, krenko, and sometimes siege commander. I think it only centers on goblins to make use of cavern of souls and being uncounterable.
You can definitely try the aggro route in legacy, and it may work especially with 4 Pyrokinesis in the board, but Kilplow is right that you really need the denial of resources to combat a lot of the unfair decks like Food Chain or Sneak/Show. Nothing better than wastelanding a Tundra and the guy never drawing another white source with a Stoneforge Mystic in play and a Batterskull in hand.
Here is the meta from the last SCG IQ, which should help you shape your deck choices (as you can pick a deck strong against the most played decks):
SCG Richmond Results:
MUD: 36-20-2, (64%)
Food Chain: 18-11-2, (62%)
RG Lands: 68-44-8, (61%)
Grixis Delver: 12-8-3, (60%)
Infect: 57-40-2, (59%)
Sultai Delver: 126-87-7, (59%)
BURG Delver: 21-15, (58%)
Abzan: 12-9, (57%)
Control Lands: 15-12-2, (56%)
Jeskai Stoneblade: 33-27-5, (55%)
Shardless Sultai: 102-82-9, (55%)
Painter: 31-26-2, (54%)
Temur Delver: 94-83-5, (53%)
Elves: 91-88-4, (51%)
Twelvepost: 34-33-5, (51%)
Death and Taxes: 117-118-12, (50%)
Dredge: 58-58-2, (50%)
Grixis Control: 17-17-3, (50%)
Jeskai Delver: 63-62-5, (50%)
Miracles: 143-141-30, (50%)
UW Stoneblade: 13-13-3, (50%)
Sneak and Show: 90-92-4, (49%)
Storm: 110-114-7, (49%)
Maverick: 45-52-4, (46%)
Omnitell: 38-45, (46%)
Reanimator: 68-79-5, (46%)
Burn: 39-48-1, (45%)
Goblins: 15-18, (45%)
Deathblade: 44-55-8, (44%)
Jund: 24-31-1, (44%)
U/R Delver: 13-18, (42%)
Merfolk: 21-31-1, (40%)
Esper Stoneblade: 12-19-1, (39%)
Tin Fins: 7-12, (37%)
Nic Fit: 9-22-3, (29%)
Enchantress: 9-24-3, (27%)
High Tide: 7-22, (24%)
Legacy:
RUB Grixis Delver | RUGB 4c Control
Modern:
UR Affinity | RWG Burn
EDH:
R Krenko Combo | UR Mizzix WomboCombo | U Arcum Daggson Combo | WUBG Atraxa Dumpster Fire
French Duels EDH:
BUG Leovold, Emissary of Trest Prison
Standard:
Standard Sucks
So for a mono red goblin list, you pretty much have your hands tied. The traditional route for goblins is more expensive because it shares so much in common with death and taxes. Alot of goblin lists were even running main deck Thalia (thankfully plateau's were the cheapest of dual lands almost). They had wasteland and port and even vial in common. Goblins could be insanely explosive with Lackie starts, but White has plowshares, and other hate bearers....and can rely heavily on basics.
The all in red is an interesting deck because it has 7 main deck blood moon effects often. That's pretty backbreaking to any greedy deck in legacy. Miracles and Nic Fit run alot of basics--as do Elves, Death and Taxes, The Gate, and Burn. The Trini lock hurts all those decks heavily (besides Fit and let's face it with a 29 percent win percentage, its not your top concern lol) since they rely on cheap spells, as does Chalice. Putting a first turn Trini against burn....basically gives you 3 turns to do whatever you want, and then he can only cast 1 spell a turn. That's crippling for a deck that just wants to count to 20.
The rogue deck I linked in my first post I think it probably the route you want to go on a budget. You give up any semblance of a late game to hit them as hard as you can as fast as you can. I didn't play it extensively, but I had opponents that had never seen it, pass the turn back above 10 life alot and then I could often just explode and kill them with as I mentioned a combination of grenades, reckless abandon, and fireblast. It folds to chalice or counterbalance, but is a hair more dangerous than burn, almost always winning on turn 3, instead of 4.