Working my way towards a set of Tarmogoyfs some day, I have wondered, what's the next best thing I can do in the same style? I think Stranglerot Geist is the next best creature, even though it really doesn't approach the loftiness of that ludicrously expensive lhurgoyf in power, it is a hitter with resilience. It can survive almost any spell and it comes in swinging, which is maybe the most important part of attacking for this deck - early threats that whittle the opponent's life total while you disrupt. I also think that is strengthened by 2 maindeck lavamancers. They are counteractive to the goose, but there's often scraps enough for both by the time they happen to occupy the same board. Closest thing this deck has to an 'late game' card. The taiga, which helps to play strangleroot's is also an enabler for kird ape , who has long been a benchwarmer in the dugout for this deck, but is a pretty reasonable extra creature considering Legacy has a tendency to try to kill creatures for 2 damage.
I have gitaxian probes in place of the wastelands i'm missing and i haven't seem to have had too much trouble with mana.
Any thoughts?
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LegacyHelm LegacyBelcher LegacyCheeri 0 s LegacyManaless Dredge CubeDragons
I am not expert at your deck, but I'll take a crack at it.
I think Grim goes against the plan of Nimble/Tamo. You either want to go for a full GY to power threshold/Tamo or an empty one.
If I had to go for an empty GY plan, I'd choose Hooting Mandrills as my attacker. He's decently large, can't be Abruptly Decayed, and has trample, plus with 4 toughness, he's out of bolt range too. And worth virtually nothing. A bargain for 1 mana potentially after a few turns.
If you need another guy, the answer seems to be Young Pyromancer. He's can help you fill the board with tokens and makes your cantrips even more powerful.
Both those creatures are cheap and extremely good and very budget friendly.
Great suggestions! Yes, Hooting Mandrill is a fine substitute for tarmogoyf, but it too runs counter to mongoose. Maybe an APE theme with kird apes to replace mongooses and 4 mandrills as the graveyard eaters of the deck is in order?? Yes I have been noticing that Grim Lavamancer is worth it in the sideboard, because it really becomes a situation of either mongoose OR grim which is not bad if you need to burn creatures out but IS bad if maindeck. Lately I've changed:
Also, I realize that with all the duals this isn't exactly a budget deck, but I thought it would be a good avenue to bring up the question: what does Budget Legacy Delver look like? I just included the cards that I actually own
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LegacyHelm LegacyBelcher LegacyCheeri 0 s LegacyManaless Dredge CubeDragons
Oh yeah Werebear! Forgot about that old gem! I like Vendilion Clique, it's just such an interesting card overall. The one thing I've noticed about Pyromancer in Temur is that your 2-drop is often a later card whereas your dazes, stifles, ponders & stuff usually happen in the first 1-2 turns, leaving you with a smaller hand to go off with pyromancer. With the idea of Hooting Mandrills being the distant second best to Tarmogoyf, here's my latest build:
Epiphany: while sadly my favorite card Nimble Mongoose can't be adequately supported by graveyard-gobbling Hooting Mandrills , Grim Lavamancer can now feasibly squeeze in for 2 copies! So, as above except:
-1 umezawa's jitte (love it in the sideboard though
-1 gitaxian probe
+2 grim lavamancer
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LegacyHelm LegacyBelcher LegacyCheeri 0 s LegacyManaless Dredge CubeDragons
Also, I realize that with all the duals this isn't exactly a budget deck, but I thought it would be a good avenue to bring up the question: what does Budget Legacy Delver look like? I just included the cards that I actually own
Here's a link to the main thread. If you lurk around in that thread, you can see what other people were doing before treasure cruise and see how close your list is to stock.
I see a few lists with Fire // Ice as a 1 of...I guess it is close to forked bolt and pitches to FoW? A few other things like sometimes chain lightning or stuff like spell snare...apparently Stoneforge is a huge issue. Beyond that, one poster suggested using Tome Scour to reach threshold faster for Tamo/Mongoose. Most suggest playing more costly wastelands though. By and a large, you are almost right on with a build--its just a matter of fine tuning.
The most interesting thing I saw when lurking in the thread was a guy trying to splash black into delver for the insane green/black cards--Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. Shaman especially can do some thing without access to black, but you start losing deck identity and focus with a 4th color. If you go black, then Tasigur, the Golden Fang starts looking more appealing than hooting...I mean you lose trample for an extra toughness and an ability that is unlikely to be used too much. I know Grixis tempo is a thing too--replacing green seems somewhat appealing in that regard, though you'd probably want dark confidents or something else, which are still really pricy. But all that speculation is getting off topic because the entire deck is changing at that point.
I think hooting and delver are probably your best creatures...if lists are only running 12, you only have 4 slots to fill. That question of course is what creatures are best. I don't think Kird Ape is bad at all. I've never seen a deck try Snapcaster but surely he couldn't be that bad, though for 3 mana you could also have a True-Name Nemesis. If you really want to stretch, maybe Spellstutter Sprite . Its not very dangerous but helps with disruption. I really don't know what to fill that slot with though that's as fast and good as what you lose with mongoose/gorf combo.
Also, I realize that with all the duals this isn't exactly a budget deck, but I thought it would be a good avenue to bring up the question: what does Budget Legacy Delver look like? I just included the cards that I actually own
Here's a link to the main thread. If you lurk around in that thread, you can see what other people were doing before treasure cruise and see how close your list is to stock.
I see a few lists with Fire // Ice as a 1 of...I guess it is close to forked bolt and pitches to FoW? A few other things like sometimes chain lightning or stuff like spell snare...apparently Stoneforge is a huge issue. Beyond that, one poster suggested using Tome Scour to reach threshold faster for Tamo/Mongoose. Most suggest playing more costly wastelands though. By and a large, you are almost right on with a build--its just a matter of fine tuning.
The most interesting thing I saw when lurking in the thread was a guy trying to splash black into delver for the insane green/black cards--Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. Shaman especially can do some thing without access to black, but you start losing deck identity and focus with a 4th color. If you go black, then Tasigur, the Golden Fang starts looking more appealing than hooting...I mean you lose trample for an extra toughness and an ability that is unlikely to be used too much. I know Grixis tempo is a thing too--replacing green seems somewhat appealing in that regard, though you'd probably want dark confidents or something else, which are still really pricy. But all that speculation is getting off topic because the entire deck is changing at that point.
I think hooting and delver are probably your best creatures...if lists are only running 12, you only have 4 slots to fill. That question of course is what creatures are best. I don't think Kird Ape is bad at all. I've never seen a deck try Snapcaster but surely he couldn't be that bad, though for 3 mana you could also have a True-Name Nemesis. If you really want to stretch, maybe Spellstutter Sprite . Its not very dangerous but helps with disruption. I really don't know what to fill that slot with though that's as fast and good as what you lose with mongoose/gorf combo.
All good tips, and thanks for linking to the big thread! Yes, is definitely hotter right now, but I am committed to , it being more my style. I think both versions will continue to have longevity. True-Name Nemesis , even as a 'fun-of' (1x) could add some of the power that's lost without tarmo-goose. I honestly have trouble seeing why Tasigur, the Golden Fang is any better than hooting mandrills , as they both survive bolt and personally I'd rather have trample. One thing both these 'delvers' have on tarmogoyf: you can draw them through counter-top and they are immune to Abrupt Decay .
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LegacyHelm LegacyBelcher LegacyCheeri 0 s LegacyManaless Dredge CubeDragons
It's been said, but what is green giving you? Almost your whole deck is UR.
RUG Delver plays the G-uh part because Tarmogoyf. Nimble Mongoose is a nice side benefit, but the real reason is Goyf.
You can easily save yourself money on the manabase and just play UR Delver, with 4 young pyromancer over the Geist/Goyf slot and Monastery Swiftspear over the Nimble Mongoose slot. Otherwise it's pretty much the same deck. Feel free to sneak in a Dig Through Time or 2.
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4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Forked Bolt
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
Working my way towards a set of Tarmogoyfs some day, I have wondered, what's the next best thing I can do in the same style? I think Stranglerot Geist is the next best creature, even though it really doesn't approach the loftiness of that ludicrously expensive lhurgoyf in power, it is a hitter with resilience. It can survive almost any spell and it comes in swinging, which is maybe the most important part of attacking for this deck - early threats that whittle the opponent's life total while you disrupt. I also think that is strengthened by 2 maindeck lavamancers. They are counteractive to the goose, but there's often scraps enough for both by the time they happen to occupy the same board. Closest thing this deck has to an 'late game' card. The taiga, which helps to play strangleroot's is also an enabler for kird ape , who has long been a benchwarmer in the dugout for this deck, but is a pretty reasonable extra creature considering Legacy has a tendency to try to kill creatures for 2 damage.
I have gitaxian probes in place of the wastelands i'm missing and i haven't seem to have had too much trouble with mana.
Any thoughts?
Legacy Helm
Legacy Belcher
Legacy Cheeri 0 s
Legacy Manaless Dredge
Cube Dragons
~
I think Grim goes against the plan of Nimble/Tamo. You either want to go for a full GY to power threshold/Tamo or an empty one.
If I had to go for an empty GY plan, I'd choose Hooting Mandrills as my attacker. He's decently large, can't be Abruptly Decayed, and has trample, plus with 4 toughness, he's out of bolt range too. And worth virtually nothing. A bargain for 1 mana potentially after a few turns.
If you need another guy, the answer seems to be Young Pyromancer. He's can help you fill the board with tokens and makes your cantrips even more powerful.
Both those creatures are cheap and extremely good and very budget friendly.
-2 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Forked Bolt
+2 Kird Ape
+1 Polluted Delta
because i needed a little more land and b/c kird fills that role of extra pressure that I think belongs in the flex slots.
Legacy Helm
Legacy Belcher
Legacy Cheeri 0 s
Legacy Manaless Dredge
Cube Dragons
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Legacy Helm
Legacy Belcher
Legacy Cheeri 0 s
Legacy Manaless Dredge
Cube Dragons
~
Werebear
Vendilion Clique
Young Pyromancer
or
Hooting Mandrills
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
WELCOME TO THE MONKEY HOUSE
4 Kird Ape
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Stifle
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
2 Submerge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rough//Tumble
2 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Ancient Grudge
Legacy Helm
Legacy Belcher
Legacy Cheeri 0 s
Legacy Manaless Dredge
Cube Dragons
~
-1 umezawa's jitte (love it in the sideboard though
-1 gitaxian probe
+2 grim lavamancer
Legacy Helm
Legacy Belcher
Legacy Cheeri 0 s
Legacy Manaless Dredge
Cube Dragons
~
Here's a link to the main thread. If you lurk around in that thread, you can see what other people were doing before treasure cruise and see how close your list is to stock.
I see a few lists with Fire // Ice as a 1 of...I guess it is close to forked bolt and pitches to FoW? A few other things like sometimes chain lightning or stuff like spell snare...apparently Stoneforge is a huge issue. Beyond that, one poster suggested using Tome Scour to reach threshold faster for Tamo/Mongoose. Most suggest playing more costly wastelands though. By and a large, you are almost right on with a build--its just a matter of fine tuning.
The most interesting thing I saw when lurking in the thread was a guy trying to splash black into delver for the insane green/black cards--Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. Shaman especially can do some thing without access to black, but you start losing deck identity and focus with a 4th color. If you go black, then Tasigur, the Golden Fang starts looking more appealing than hooting...I mean you lose trample for an extra toughness and an ability that is unlikely to be used too much. I know Grixis tempo is a thing too--replacing green seems somewhat appealing in that regard, though you'd probably want dark confidents or something else, which are still really pricy. But all that speculation is getting off topic because the entire deck is changing at that point.
Star City Games Decklist from last year. A quick look at a sample deck.
I think hooting and delver are probably your best creatures...if lists are only running 12, you only have 4 slots to fill. That question of course is what creatures are best. I don't think Kird Ape is bad at all. I've never seen a deck try Snapcaster but surely he couldn't be that bad, though for 3 mana you could also have a True-Name Nemesis. If you really want to stretch, maybe Spellstutter Sprite . Its not very dangerous but helps with disruption. I really don't know what to fill that slot with though that's as fast and good as what you lose with mongoose/gorf combo.
All good tips, and thanks for linking to the big thread! Yes, is definitely hotter right now, but I am committed to , it being more my style. I think both versions will continue to have longevity. True-Name Nemesis , even as a 'fun-of' (1x) could add some of the power that's lost without tarmo-goose. I honestly have trouble seeing why Tasigur, the Golden Fang is any better than hooting mandrills , as they both survive bolt and personally I'd rather have trample. One thing both these 'delvers' have on tarmogoyf: you can draw them through counter-top and they are immune to Abrupt Decay .
Legacy Helm
Legacy Belcher
Legacy Cheeri 0 s
Legacy Manaless Dredge
Cube Dragons
~
RUG Delver plays the G-uh part because Tarmogoyf. Nimble Mongoose is a nice side benefit, but the real reason is Goyf.
You can easily save yourself money on the manabase and just play UR Delver, with 4 young pyromancer over the Geist/Goyf slot and Monastery Swiftspear over the Nimble Mongoose slot. Otherwise it's pretty much the same deck. Feel free to sneak in a Dig Through Time or 2.