Hi, I'm looking for comments/review on this deck I made up. I'v been trying to do a deck centered around Gelectrode but it never really was competitive.
This one seems to be holding up well but I want opinions on how to make it better. What should I add/remove?
Flame burst could easily become chain lightning, ponder could be brainstorm if you started to run fetch lands as a matter of fact you should run ponder and brainstorm rather than aether burst. You could fix the mana base a bit by adding fetchlands. Magma jet should be 3 price of progress with a 4th In the board. Incinerate should probably be artful dodge. Isochron scepter should probably just be force of will if you have access to it.
I'm playing with friends only, not going to any tournament. I won't bother with fetchlands/force of will since they are way overpriced but it's fine since none of my friends do either. I'v also read a lot about brainstorm/ponder/preordain and from my understanding brainstorm is not that great without fetching. You just choose the order of draw but still get dead turns in the end.
Since there is not that many nonbasic lands in my meta, Price of progress is useless for me. Maybe a SB option at best for an affinity deck but not worth being in main board.
The point was to get a scepter imprinted with an instant to get infinite burn/utility. Chain lightning is not an instant and that's why I didn't take it. If I removed scepter then I would surely reconsider but I'm also planning on playing multiplayer games, so I need sustained damage (hence the scepter). Would there be some other way to get sustained damage without the scepter in this deck? Also, the scepter copies boost Kiln Fiend every turn so it adds to the usefulness.
Artful dodge is interesting. Not an instant I can imprint but it is useful for Kiln Fiend for sure although I feel it's wasted since I only have 4 aggro creatures...do you think more creatures are needed, maybe change this deck from burn to aggro? Or just remove double cleave for it... At least Double Cleave can help take down creatures with 4 toughness even on a wimp like Young Pyromancer.
Æther burst was meant to sustain since I don't have much defense. If I were to remove both incinerate and aether burst, how could I survive an aggro deck?
Thanks for the input, I have almost 0 experience with blue and red... it seems nobody I know ever play those two colors together.
Double cleave and artful dodge together on a kilnfiend is a pretty great start. If you are looking to chain spells into a fiend perhaps gitaxian probe and gut shot are options for you. Sorry, I play a lot of competitive legacy.
I'd drop Scepter, Collar, and some number of Kiln Fiends for Delvers and spells. In a casual deck for this kind of synergy I ran Distortion Strike, Staggershock, and Virulent Swipe
EDIT: If this is just for casual and it's budget you should plop it into the Budget forum. Definitely go for Strike, Delver, Staggershock, and Firebolt. In my deck I also ran Think Twice and Faithless Looting since they act as pumps and such while getting you more spells (both in and out of the grave.) All you're trying to do is keep casting things so cards that don't have much action to them (like the above) can really do work.
I'd drop Scepter, Collar, and some number of Kiln Fiends for Delvers and spells. In a casual deck for this kind of synergy I ran Distortion Strike, Staggershock, and Virulent Swipe
EDIT: If this is just for casual and it's budget you should plop it into the Budget forum. Definitely go for Strike, Delver, Staggershock, and Firebolt. In my deck I also ran Think Twice and Faithless Looting since they act as pumps and such while getting you more spells (both in and out of the grave.) All you're trying to do is keep casting things so cards that don't have much action to them (like the above) can really do work.
All those rebound spells are also great, since they won't cost me a thing on the next turn! I love em and will try to adapt my deck.
I'm playing casual, but I'm still building for Competitive Legacy. It's just that my meta is far from a tournament so I can't really use all the same strategies.
Would leaving the scepter for MP games be a good idea? as I stated before, I fear I'll run out of gaz if I play emperor or simply FFA multiplayer...It's hard balancing for bot SP and MP!
I've already done some changes but I'm still reluctant to getting rid of scepter.
I know incinerate isn't optimal, but is there another good 1 or 2 cmc instant burn I could replace it with? (As long as Scepter is MB, I prefer instants over sorceries otherwise I'd use Chain Lightning).
After testing this deck a little, I thought I should drop Gelectrode completely. It just won't fit with what the deck has become so I'v named the deck "Kiln Friends".
Guttersnipe is often just better than Gelectrode at an easier mana cost and bigger body, if you still want to go that route.
If you look at Pauper Kiln Fiend decks for inspiration (there is a great primer in the MTGO Pauper section), you should see that Artful Dodge has been proven way more versatile than Distortion Strike. Distortion Strike sometimes just misses if you have no creature next turn (i.e. got killed) and can't be used twice on the same turn to make 2 different creatures unblockable. Shadow Rift is not bad either. Double Cleave is pretty much just worse than running more cantrips to dig into Assault Strobe and other stuff. Preordain and Gitaxian Probe should be in here as 4-ofs. They add a lot of consistency.
The Pauper deck has also shown that Wee Dragonauts takes too many spells to win (i.e. is a liability) and trusty new Nivix Cyclops is just better as long as you have enough unblockable enablers! Cyclops also means you are less reliant on pump spells like Reckless Charge to make lethal. And it blocks stuff!
Flame Burst is a really bad burn spell. If you must run more burn, Chain Lightning and even Lightning Strike are usually better. (only Flame Burst #3 beats Lightning Strike and your game shouldn't go that long)
What you say makes a lot of sense... I'll have to get those cards and experiment in my meta to see which give the best result. I was not aware of Cyclops, It indeed looks much better than Dragonauts.
I don't understand why people like Gitaxian Probe as cantrip. I don't have any counterspell so I find the first ability kinda useless.
And instead of Lightning Strike, why not go for more Incinerate. I get your point on Flame Burst tho. I'v ordered these cards already but I will keep updating so it's nothing final. Thanks for the explanation, I really appreciate. And I'll be sure to check the Pauper Primer, wasn't aware there was one that could help me here.
NP. This archetype (Kiln Fiend/Dragonauts + spells + double strike) is a popular Pauper decks so a lot of players have already tested through some of these card choices, making it easier to know what is effective from collective experience.
Gitaxian Probe is useful in Kiln Fiend decks because:
1) It's a free spell, meaning you need less mana on your critical turn to "go off" (or can threaten more than 20 damage if they have gained life)
2) The information is still useful. Attacking with Kiln Fiend is an "all in" strategy. If the opponent has white mana open and Path to Exile, you definitely don't want to dump your whole hand on an attack! Probe clears the way to see if they have any tricks before you dedicate too many resources to your attack. Some players don't like it but I love playing with more information. I think experienced players especially can capitalize on information edges. Whatever works for you.
Oh yeah, Incinerate and several other burn spells are better than Lightning Strike. I just meant that EVEN Lightning Strike is usually superior to Flame Burst in an aggressive deck, so you might as well just play any of the better burn spells instead. Which ever one suits your taste. Flame Burst was originally designed for slower grindier decks (using that creature that counts as Flame Burst copies). I don't know anyone that still plays it in any deck because there's just so much other good burn already.
I'm wondering if I shouldn't replace ponder/shivan reef by brainstorm/fetches... even tho it hasn't been reprinted yet, I'm guessing other colors will come soon.
I don't know your meta, but you might consider magma jet in place of incinerate. On a scepter, it will dig you further into cards you want and past things like lands when you don't need them, though it is one less damage. Other than that, there is this beautiful little old gem called fire//ice which fits nicely on a scepter and you can choose whichever mode you want!
This one seems to be holding up well but I want opinions on how to make it better. What should I add/remove?
3 Isochron Scepter
CREATURES[12]
4 Gelectrode
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Young Pyromancer
INSTANTS[20]
3 Æther Burst
3 Double Cleave
4 Flame Burst
3 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Think Twice
6 Island
6 Mountain
2 Shivan Reef
4 Sulfur Falls
SORCERIES[7]
3 Distortion Strike
4 Ponder
3 Guttersnipe
3 Wee Dragonauts
3 Price of Progress
3 Staggershock
3 Flame Rift
I have not yet decided on a sideboard, but I would need the deck to work before I even think about that.
Since there is not that many nonbasic lands in my meta, Price of progress is useless for me. Maybe a SB option at best for an affinity deck but not worth being in main board.
The point was to get a scepter imprinted with an instant to get infinite burn/utility. Chain lightning is not an instant and that's why I didn't take it. If I removed scepter then I would surely reconsider but I'm also planning on playing multiplayer games, so I need sustained damage (hence the scepter). Would there be some other way to get sustained damage without the scepter in this deck? Also, the scepter copies boost Kiln Fiend every turn so it adds to the usefulness.
Artful dodge is interesting. Not an instant I can imprint but it is useful for Kiln Fiend for sure although I feel it's wasted since I only have 4 aggro creatures...do you think more creatures are needed, maybe change this deck from burn to aggro? Or just remove double cleave for it... At least Double Cleave can help take down creatures with 4 toughness even on a wimp like Young Pyromancer.
Æther burst was meant to sustain since I don't have much defense. If I were to remove both incinerate and aether burst, how could I survive an aggro deck?
Thanks for the input, I have almost 0 experience with blue and red... it seems nobody I know ever play those two colors together.
EDIT: If this is just for casual and it's budget you should plop it into the Budget forum. Definitely go for Strike, Delver, Staggershock, and Firebolt. In my deck I also ran Think Twice and Faithless Looting since they act as pumps and such while getting you more spells (both in and out of the grave.) All you're trying to do is keep casting things so cards that don't have much action to them (like the above) can really do work.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
I really like the idea of Think Twice and Faithless Looting. That would surely improve my draw.
All those rebound spells are also great, since they won't cost me a thing on the next turn! I love em and will try to adapt my deck.
I'm playing casual, but I'm still building for Competitive Legacy. It's just that my meta is far from a tournament so I can't really use all the same strategies.
Would leaving the scepter for MP games be a good idea? as I stated before, I fear I'll run out of gaz if I play emperor or simply FFA multiplayer...It's hard balancing for bot SP and MP!
I know incinerate isn't optimal, but is there another good 1 or 2 cmc instant burn I could replace it with? (As long as Scepter is MB, I prefer instants over sorceries otherwise I'd use Chain Lightning).
Also, I made up a SB.
Here's what it looks like now:
3 Isochron Scepter
CREATURES[12]
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Nivix Cyclops
4 Young Pyromancer
INSTANTS[14]
3 Double Cleave
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Manamorphose
3 Distortion Strike
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
3 Reckless Charge
LANDS[18]
4 Island
6 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Guttersnipe
3 Everlasting Torment
3 Staggershock
3 Artful Dodge
3 Pyroclasm
I think it's already much better this way. What do you think?
If you look at Pauper Kiln Fiend decks for inspiration (there is a great primer in the MTGO Pauper section), you should see that Artful Dodge has been proven way more versatile than Distortion Strike. Distortion Strike sometimes just misses if you have no creature next turn (i.e. got killed) and can't be used twice on the same turn to make 2 different creatures unblockable. Shadow Rift is not bad either. Double Cleave is pretty much just worse than running more cantrips to dig into Assault Strobe and other stuff. Preordain and Gitaxian Probe should be in here as 4-ofs. They add a lot of consistency.
The Pauper deck has also shown that Wee Dragonauts takes too many spells to win (i.e. is a liability) and trusty new Nivix Cyclops is just better as long as you have enough unblockable enablers! Cyclops also means you are less reliant on pump spells like Reckless Charge to make lethal. And it blocks stuff!
Flame Burst is a really bad burn spell. If you must run more burn, Chain Lightning and even Lightning Strike are usually better. (only Flame Burst #3 beats Lightning Strike and your game shouldn't go that long)
I don't understand why people like Gitaxian Probe as cantrip. I don't have any counterspell so I find the first ability kinda useless.
And instead of Lightning Strike, why not go for more Incinerate. I get your point on Flame Burst tho. I'v ordered these cards already but I will keep updating so it's nothing final. Thanks for the explanation, I really appreciate. And I'll be sure to check the Pauper Primer, wasn't aware there was one that could help me here.
Gitaxian Probe is useful in Kiln Fiend decks because:
1) It's a free spell, meaning you need less mana on your critical turn to "go off" (or can threaten more than 20 damage if they have gained life)
2) The information is still useful. Attacking with Kiln Fiend is an "all in" strategy. If the opponent has white mana open and Path to Exile, you definitely don't want to dump your whole hand on an attack! Probe clears the way to see if they have any tricks before you dedicate too many resources to your attack. Some players don't like it but I love playing with more information. I think experienced players especially can capitalize on information edges. Whatever works for you.
Oh yeah, Incinerate and several other burn spells are better than Lightning Strike. I just meant that EVEN Lightning Strike is usually superior to Flame Burst in an aggressive deck, so you might as well just play any of the better burn spells instead. Which ever one suits your taste. Flame Burst was originally designed for slower grindier decks (using that creature that counts as Flame Burst copies). I don't know anyone that still plays it in any deck because there's just so much other good burn already.
I've had more success with test games since I added Probe. It can be a good finisher and protects your assets too.
3 Isochron Scepter
CREATURES[14]
3 Guttersnipe
4 Kiln Fiend
3 Nivix Cyclops
4 Young Pyromancer
INSTANTS[14]
3 Double Cleave
3 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
3 Distortion Strike
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
LANDS[18]
4 Island
6 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Everlasting Torment
3 Lava Dart
3 Mana Leak
3 Pyroclasm
3 Reckless Charge
I'm wondering if I shouldn't replace ponder/shivan reef by brainstorm/fetches... even tho it hasn't been reprinted yet, I'm guessing other colors will come soon.
What do you guys think?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!