So we managed to get a kid at the local shop into legacy recently.
It started with a bunch of conspiracy Brainstorms, so we needed to find him a budget legacy deck that was also a Brainstorm deck (not easy). We settled on High Tide, but since then I've been struggling to cobble together a reasonably powerful and balanced High Tide list.
It's eschewing Cunning Wish for now on budget reasons (not because they specifically are expensive, but rather because it's easy to nickle and dime this into a serious undertaking for younger players if you add too many $5 cards), but they probably make sense once the deck is complete.
Misdirection is a budget Force of Will (vs countermagic and discard), now that the conspiracy version is in freefall.
The deck seems a bit more explosive than normal tide, but obviously a bit more fragile.
Swan Song seems quite good for budget, especially when you consider how it synergizes with the Snap half of the engine.
All in all, the entire deck is cards in the $2 or lower range except for Time Spiral (fairly essential, but doable as the single card over $10), Misdirection (now as low as $6 or $8 from Conspiracy), and the singletons of Meditate ($5 singleton is pretty reasonable) and Stroke of Genius (which was donated gratis anyway).
Are there any glaring weaknesses or changes that should be made (while still keeping it budget)?
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Alternate budget cantrips worth considering: Peer Through Depths Flash of Insight (1-2 copies of this card is seriously strong on the flashback, should not be ignored for budget High Tide) Careful Study (good if you keep Brainstorm and need to burn lands from Brainstorm/Ponder in absence of a shuffle, similar role to Frantic Search) Serum Visions (probably weaker than other options)
If you go all-in on the Snap mana engine, Augur of Bolas may not be that bad, digging for cards in the early turns, blocking dorks and letting you Snap it to dig more later. I usually run 4 Snap + Snapcaster Mages but that's not budget and Augur seems like a non-awful alternative.
For sideboarding strategy, opponents will probably board in storm hate and counterspells. What they won't board in is permanent hate. You don't have Force of Will/Flusterstorm to save the day, but you CAN board into Defense Grid against blue decks and anyone boarding into Mindbreak Trap. No one will see that coming. If you drop that turn 3 or 4 with Swan Song back-up, even if it doesn't resolve, you should sufficiently drain their disruption to go off next turn.
Stuff like Thalia can be dealt with in the usual ways since permanent removal isn't expensive.
Has anyone thought about running Ug Tide, splashing green for Magus of the Candelabra? Using Breeding Pool as a one or two of, with fetch support, I think it could be done. While it does turn on some amount of removal, and opens us up to a wasteland or two, it offers a huge mana bump and s much cheaper than Candelabra of Tawnos.
High tide is a pretty hard budget deck to make competitively (even the cheaper solidarity version, as it generally uses 10 fetches to power Dig Through Time), the version you are looking at, a guy earlier stated Augur of Bolas, I am in pretty heavy agreement with that statement, he will block early for you as your deck will take some time to build up to go for the combo. Even without fetchlands, you should be running at least 1-2 Dig Through Time which will help you dig better mid combo. 4x Gitaxian Probe is a must in this deck, it lets you see what you have to fight to win with combo, and allows you to cut some of your counterspells. You are already not running full instant speed Tide, so I don't see why probe isn't in the list. Just my two cents.
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Currently playing: Legacy: RUB Grixis Delver | RUGB 4c Control Modern: UR Affinity | RWG Burn EDH: R Krenko Combo | UR Mizzix WomboCombo | U Arcum Daggson Combo | WUBG Atraxa Dumpster Fire French Duels EDH: BUG Leovold, Emissary of Trest Prison Standard: Standard Sucks
Some of this is a bit less budget, but I had started putting the deck together last year before my last job ended. Havent gotten to finish it yet, but the deck looks something like this:
I think Intuition is the only individual card left in the deck that costs very much, altho the playset of Counterbalance will run me about 40 bux. Finding a Pact in a box of random rares and uncommons from occasional packs I would buy in the years I wasnt playing didn't hurt either. I like the Snap-Augur idea. Probes and Retraced Image are nice too, but wasnt sure how much room there was to shift more things around. Being heavy into standard makes at least some of the fetch lands pretty cheap. Hopefully I can get some boxes when BFZ comes out and finish my fetch set.
I tried this the UG route with the Chain Stasis + Magus of the Candelabra combo, it's was quite nice, but if you don't find the Magus before the combo turn, you won't be able to use it's tap ability. I was running Autumn's Veil which was really amazing, because once you cast a single one, you won't have to worry about counters until you finish your combo ^^, it was really nice.
I would recommend Realmwright in this build if fetchlands is a issue. Research // Development haven't tested, but could be interesting (although it doesn't put a card in your hand, which is quite bad) and maybe Riftsweeper in case your opponent exile something from you with say Surgical Extraction or for your own Time Spiral's or even against a lethal suspended Rift Bolt, but that would be very narrow.
@NamhciR:
I didn't found Gitaxian Probe to be as essential as it seemed to me when I tested it at least, I used 2 main deck and I found that after I used it once, right before the combo, I didn't want to see it again since it doesn't dig as much as I needed, so I changed them for a pair of Mystic Remora which was quite nice, but ended with Counters which could be used before and during combo.
@SSquirrel:
Nice list you have there, Impulse and Dig Through Time are very nice digging. It would be nice to exile lands when using Dig Through Time in hope not to see them again after a Time Spiral, but despite the fetchlands, it's quite hard to see Islands on grave. Swan Song can be strong some games, just watch out for the token clocking you if you cast it before starting to combo.
I tried 2 Counterbalance maindeck for a while, went to a small event with the list and it's actually quite random without sensei's divining top, because usually you will set your cantrips to find combo pieces and won't be able to fix the top card to counter something. When you can use your cantrips to counterbalance, you probably already have your combo pieces and would be almost as good if it was just another counter. Nevertheless, when it works, it's really good, just nuts! You'll just sit back and watch as your opponents spell are countered and keep making land drops until you get tired enough of watching to go off. I won the event, but removed Counterbalance.
I'm running a single Retraced Image on my list and it's nice, not sure if more would work, because it only work when you have a Island or another permanent card in your hand that you already have on the field.
One thing I noticed is that most of your counters doesn't target creatures and you don't have bounces main deck. It can be hard to fight against things like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Canonyst and alike. You can still Wish for a Snap or Wipe Away, but you will also need the Whishes for your win conditions and it can be hard to find anything with Spirit of the Labyrinth on the board.
I'm running a budget version too, but it's a bit more budget, so not sure if I should post around here.
I hope it help
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It started with a bunch of conspiracy Brainstorms, so we needed to find him a budget legacy deck that was also a Brainstorm deck (not easy). We settled on High Tide, but since then I've been struggling to cobble together a reasonably powerful and balanced High Tide list.
Here's where I am now:
4 Time Spiral
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Snap
4 Swan Song
4 Cloud of Faeries
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Meditate
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
3 Misdirection
1 Wipe Away
1 Stroke of Genius
4 Spell Pierce
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Mana Short
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Devastation Tide
It's eschewing Cunning Wish for now on budget reasons (not because they specifically are expensive, but rather because it's easy to nickle and dime this into a serious undertaking for younger players if you add too many $5 cards), but they probably make sense once the deck is complete.
Misdirection is a budget Force of Will (vs countermagic and discard), now that the conspiracy version is in freefall.
The deck seems a bit more explosive than normal tide, but obviously a bit more fragile.
Swan Song seems quite good for budget, especially when you consider how it synergizes with the Snap half of the engine.
All in all, the entire deck is cards in the $2 or lower range except for Time Spiral (fairly essential, but doable as the single card over $10), Misdirection (now as low as $6 or $8 from Conspiracy), and the singletons of Meditate ($5 singleton is pretty reasonable) and Stroke of Genius (which was donated gratis anyway).
Are there any glaring weaknesses or changes that should be made (while still keeping it budget)?
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Alternate budget cantrips worth considering:
Peer Through Depths
Flash of Insight (1-2 copies of this card is seriously strong on the flashback, should not be ignored for budget High Tide)
Careful Study (good if you keep Brainstorm and need to burn lands from Brainstorm/Ponder in absence of a shuffle, similar role to Frantic Search)
Serum Visions (probably weaker than other options)
If you go all-in on the Snap mana engine, Augur of Bolas may not be that bad, digging for cards in the early turns, blocking dorks and letting you Snap it to dig more later. I usually run 4 Snap + Snapcaster Mages but that's not budget and Augur seems like a non-awful alternative.
For sideboarding strategy, opponents will probably board in storm hate and counterspells. What they won't board in is permanent hate. You don't have Force of Will/Flusterstorm to save the day, but you CAN board into Defense Grid against blue decks and anyone boarding into Mindbreak Trap. No one will see that coming. If you drop that turn 3 or 4 with Swan Song back-up, even if it doesn't resolve, you should sufficiently drain their disruption to go off next turn.
Stuff like Thalia can be dealt with in the usual ways since permanent removal isn't expensive.
And, any alternatives to Hurkyl's Recall?edit, hurkyl's is a bit cheaper for the older version, about $4 vs $9
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Brain Freeze
1x Dig Through Time
4x High Tide
1x Meditate
3x Misdirection
4x Snap
2x Spell Pierce
2x Turnabout
4x Merchant Scroll
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
3x Retraced Image
4x Time Spiral
Land (18)
1x Flooded Strand
16x Island
1x Polluted Delta
4x Cloud of Faeries
How has it been running just the one Turnabout? It's been really nice in boosting my mana count at different points of the combo turn.
Also, how have the Swan Songs been? I'd be interested in picking them up if they've been really strong.
I'm trying a one of Dig, but it'll probably come out, as it's been stranded in my hand way too often for my liking so far.
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Legacy:
RUB Grixis Delver | RUGB 4c Control
Modern:
UR Affinity | RWG Burn
EDH:
R Krenko Combo | UR Mizzix WomboCombo | U Arcum Daggson Combo | WUBG Atraxa Dumpster Fire
French Duels EDH:
BUG Leovold, Emissary of Trest Prison
Standard:
Standard Sucks
Spells
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
3 Preordain
3 Spell Pierce
2 Swan Song
1 Counterspell
4 Merchant Scroll
2 Impulse
3 Cunning Wish
2 Meditate
3 Turnabout
4 Time Spiral
3 Dig Through Time
10 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Swan Song
1 Turnabout
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Snap
1 Rebuild
1 Pact of Negation
1 Intuition
1 Brain Freeze
1 Blue Suns Zenith
4 Counterbalance
2 Wipe Away
I think Intuition is the only individual card left in the deck that costs very much, altho the playset of Counterbalance will run me about 40 bux. Finding a Pact in a box of random rares and uncommons from occasional packs I would buy in the years I wasnt playing didn't hurt either. I like the Snap-Augur idea. Probes and Retraced Image are nice too, but wasnt sure how much room there was to shift more things around. Being heavy into standard makes at least some of the fetch lands pretty cheap. Hopefully I can get some boxes when BFZ comes out and finish my fetch set.
Thoughts on this build? I'm open to ideas.
I tried this the UG route with the Chain Stasis + Magus of the Candelabra combo, it's was quite nice, but if you don't find the Magus before the combo turn, you won't be able to use it's tap ability. I was running Autumn's Veil which was really amazing, because once you cast a single one, you won't have to worry about counters until you finish your combo ^^, it was really nice.
I would recommend Realmwright in this build if fetchlands is a issue. Research // Development haven't tested, but could be interesting (although it doesn't put a card in your hand, which is quite bad) and maybe Riftsweeper in case your opponent exile something from you with say Surgical Extraction or for your own Time Spiral's or even against a lethal suspended Rift Bolt, but that would be very narrow.
@NamhciR:
I didn't found Gitaxian Probe to be as essential as it seemed to me when I tested it at least, I used 2 main deck and I found that after I used it once, right before the combo, I didn't want to see it again since it doesn't dig as much as I needed, so I changed them for a pair of Mystic Remora which was quite nice, but ended with Counters which could be used before and during combo.
@SSquirrel:
Nice list you have there, Impulse and Dig Through Time are very nice digging. It would be nice to exile lands when using Dig Through Time in hope not to see them again after a Time Spiral, but despite the fetchlands, it's quite hard to see Islands on grave. Swan Song can be strong some games, just watch out for the token clocking you if you cast it before starting to combo.
I tried 2 Counterbalance maindeck for a while, went to a small event with the list and it's actually quite random without sensei's divining top, because usually you will set your cantrips to find combo pieces and won't be able to fix the top card to counter something. When you can use your cantrips to counterbalance, you probably already have your combo pieces and would be almost as good if it was just another counter. Nevertheless, when it works, it's really good, just nuts! You'll just sit back and watch as your opponents spell are countered and keep making land drops until you get tired enough of watching to go off. I won the event, but removed Counterbalance.
I'm running a single Retraced Image on my list and it's nice, not sure if more would work, because it only work when you have a Island or another permanent card in your hand that you already have on the field.
One thing I noticed is that most of your counters doesn't target creatures and you don't have bounces main deck. It can be hard to fight against things like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Canonyst and alike. You can still Wish for a Snap or Wipe Away, but you will also need the Whishes for your win conditions and it can be hard to find anything with Spirit of the Labyrinth on the board.
I'm running a budget version too, but it's a bit more budget, so not sure if I should post around here.
I hope it help