Is there a hate style deck in legacy that could be built from a modern gw hatebears deck without needing to spend a thousand dollars on lands? I currently own most of the all star hate cards, and stuff like stone forge or mom is not backbreaking on the wallet. The problem is wasteland, krakas, port. Any suggestions? I would prefer to keep the budget under 200-250 ish in additional cards
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
It kind of depends how competitive you want the deck to be. If you just want to have a hate bear Legacy deck to play for the sake of playing you could easily build something without any ports or a full set of Karakas.
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I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
Pretty much everyone here is going to tell you what you want to build is just a mediocre variant of Death & Taxes, and they're not 100 percent wrong. I've been playing decks like this for a while due to budget constraints and they're fun, but you're going to lose a lot of matchups because this deck does not work as well without a way to kill their mana, and there's not really a way to do that in the budget realm.
I'm going to run through the decklists I'm seeing in the GW Hatebears primer to see what's up, though. Let me break them down in my opinion.
Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor are nice in Legacy, but you want them with a Aether Vial because it's not enough to just stop them from fetching, you want to be able to vial these guys in when they cast Stoneforge or fetch for their lands to really mess them up. Otherwise they're just going to kill your guy then do the thing they wanted to do.
Thalia is even more amazing in Legacy than she is in Modern.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is super interesting. I think she's a little slow for legacy, even with ramp, but if you can get her down on turn two or three, you could really screw people up badly. I don't see any Legacy deck allowing you to do that and then allowing you to protect her, though.
Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile are interesting, but mostly bland in Legacy from what I've seen and nowhere near as useful as their upgraded counterparts (and removal in Legacy is better, so most decks will get search hate you have off of the board quickly enough to get the good part of the card.)
Scavenging Ooze is fun, reminds me a lot of a more consistently dangerous Jotun Grunt , which I love running in Legacy.
Mirran Crusader is a house against some decks, , but not that nice without equipment (which is hard to run without access to Stoneforge Mystic.)
I don't see Baneslayer, Thrun or Sigarda working consistently in Legacy, and those slots are much better filled by Mother of Runes to give your non-evasive beaters Evasion.
Let me know if that helps and if I can give you any more advice.
Prolly Bant colors. Gaddock Teeg, Mother of Runes, Meddling Mage, Ethersworn Canonist, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Phyrexian Revoker. They all come to mind when I think of hatebears. I think you could do it honestly. You could prolly drop blue and meddling mages and stay G/W. Disruption is tough in those colors so you have to load up on the hatebears and some other kind of advantage like Sylvan Library perhaps. Maybe Loxodon Smiter too, he's cheap and as an uncounterable 3 drop that is a 4/4 being strong versus lightning bolt is decent too. You kinda have to look at legacy and figure out the kinda hatebears you need in general. But, I think it can work decently.
Ok, sorry I took so long to respond, and thanks for not ripping me to shreds.
Bears runs some number of Path, Noble Hierarch, Birds, Thalia, Leonin Arbiter, Voice, Spellskite, Scooze, Aven Mindcensor, Loxodon Smiter, Linvala, Thrun, and baneslayer/sigarda in the normal configuration. Lands are Fastlands, Shocks, Horizon Canopy, Wildwood, Gavony Townships, Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge.
Options include Vial resto wisp blade splicer package, Gaddock Teeg, Wiltleaf liege, Swords of x and y, dismember, Mirran Crusader, KotR(with fetch lands). I have most of these cards or have access to them.
So, wasteland would be the best card to go for when I get the chance? I imagine that I could get by with fetches(when they are reprinted) and Shocklands for colored mana.
I do own a set of vials and wisp package, the greater density of creatures is just better in my modern meta.. Also own a set of all the swords of x and y.
Mom, sfm, and STP are easy enough to get.
The legacy meta here is pretty varied if that helps in any way.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
YOu could look at the old Maverick lists, but the mana base isn't going to make you any happier than Death and Taxes.
For what it's worth, Modern Hatebears is essentially a port of Legacy Maverick. Death and Taxes is, to some exent, the evolution of Maverick, and has largely replaced its spot in the meta.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Ok, sorry I took so long to respond, and thanks for not ripping me to shreds.
Bears runs some number of Path, Noble Hierarch, Birds, Thalia, Leonin Arbiter, Voice, Spellskite, Scooze, Aven Mindcensor, Loxodon Smiter, Linvala, Thrun, and baneslayer/sigarda in the normal configuration. Lands are Fastlands, Shocks, Horizon Canopy, Wildwood, Gavony Townships, Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge.
Options include Vial resto wisp blade splicer package, Gaddock Teeg, Wiltleaf liege, Swords of x and y, dismember, Mirran Crusader, KotR(with fetch lands). I have most of these cards or have access to them.
So, wasteland would be the best card to go for when I get the chance? I imagine that I could get by with fetches(when they are reprinted) and Shocklands for colored mana.
I do own a set of vials and wisp package, the greater density of creatures is just better in my modern meta.. Also own a set of all the swords of x and y.
Mom, sfm, and STP are easy enough to get.
The legacy meta here is pretty varied if that helps in any way.
Seems like you may like to go for Maverick. Revoker is a beast in Legacy too.
Savannas aren't really that pricey, so maybe you can find some of them at an affordable price.
Thanks for the input, if the lands are that critical, I should just give up on legacy altogether. Not like I could compete and have a decent shot at winning with a bad copy of a decent deck.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
If you are simply looking for a Legacy deck that can compete without busting the bank, there are resources to help you here in this Legacy forum. But briefly...
Burn - mono red. Very cheap and it wins a lot
Affinity - not as good, but still very cheap
Dredge or Oops all Spells
High Tide decks without Candelabra of Tawnos, sometimes called Spring Tide
If you want to play Mono White hate bears in Legacy, you can build around an Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors manabase and create a pretty effective and fun deck. Tomb and City are well within reach for budget players.
Start with this:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Consider other dudes such as: Phyrexian Revoker, Jotun Grunt, Aven Mindcensor, Hero of Bladehold, etc.
You don't need to play Wastelands in this deck. You can add Karakas later when/if you get the funds, but it mostly just strengthens your SnT/Reanimator matchup.
Found this list today while browsing, maybe it'll give you some ideas for an own brew: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14343&iddeck=105787
As mentioned above, Wastelands are very important in legacy, especially for disruptive kinds of decks.
Karakas is important to save your Thalia from dying and furthermore to not instantly fold against
Show and Tell decks, if there aren't that many on your meta, you can aim for that one later.
What you definitally want to look out for when entering legacy as a white-based player (besides wastelands)
are Stoneforge Mystics and their corresponding swords. The Mystics won't get cheaper and most likely won't get reprinted.
This is basically a Maverick variant, but without GSZ. Either way, your manabase will be expensive. If you play Maverick today, probably worth splashing red for Punishing Fire combo or black for DRS and Dark Confidant and Abrupt Decay. And yes, that will cost you even more money.
If you want to play hatebears with a budget manabase, I was thinking about this brew the other day... it's never going to be tier 1 but it has some useful synergies without using expensive lands or bust-the-bank cards (e.g. FoW). Burn, Affinity, Dredge, etc. are better ways to play competitive in Legacy with budget manabases. But this is at least a way to play hatebears if you want to play hatebears for the fun factor, not the win factor.
Or something roughly like that. I guess most of the good hatebears are white so you can get away with Death and Taxes instead of playing 5c hatebears.
In the other colors, the only really appealing hatebear/human targets are:
Grim Lavamancer --- bad without fetchlands
Knight of the Reliquary -- bad without fetchlands and duals
Qasali Pridemage -- great card, not a Human though and there's probably other artifact hate you can run
Noble Hierarch -- good ramp, esp if you want to stay Bant colors (run Razorverge Thicket for this). I picked MoM over this though.
Xathrid Necromancer -- maybe... don't know if flooding the board with generic 2/2s helps your win strategy.
Gaddock Teeg -- only really good as a singleton, makes you want to play GSZ and Maverick
Scavenging Ooze -- same thing
Snapcaster Mage -- bad without spells, obv
Young Pyromancer -- bad without spells, obv
Vendillion Clique -- powerful effect, but maybe not the best fit
Tidehollow Sculler -- fills missing hand disruption role. could be good.
Geist of Saint Traf -- doesn't seem to fit in this deck well
Skirsdag High Priest -- potentially amazing, but makes you want to play a completely different deck to enable it
So despite the ease of making a 5 color manabase, there aren't actually that many creatures you want to splash for. Mainly Bob, Meddling Mage and Pridemage.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
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― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
I'm going to run through the decklists I'm seeing in the GW Hatebears primer to see what's up, though. Let me break them down in my opinion.
Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor are nice in Legacy, but you want them with a Aether Vial because it's not enough to just stop them from fetching, you want to be able to vial these guys in when they cast Stoneforge or fetch for their lands to really mess them up. Otherwise they're just going to kill your guy then do the thing they wanted to do.
Thalia is even more amazing in Legacy than she is in Modern.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is super interesting. I think she's a little slow for legacy, even with ramp, but if you can get her down on turn two or three, you could really screw people up badly. I don't see any Legacy deck allowing you to do that and then allowing you to protect her, though.
Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile are interesting, but mostly bland in Legacy from what I've seen and nowhere near as useful as their upgraded counterparts (and removal in Legacy is better, so most decks will get search hate you have off of the board quickly enough to get the good part of the card.)
Scavenging Ooze is fun, reminds me a lot of a more consistently dangerous Jotun Grunt , which I love running in Legacy.
Mirran Crusader is a house against some decks, , but not that nice without equipment (which is hard to run without access to Stoneforge Mystic.)
I don't see Baneslayer, Thrun or Sigarda working consistently in Legacy, and those slots are much better filled by Mother of Runes to give your non-evasive beaters Evasion.
Let me know if that helps and if I can give you any more advice.
Bears runs some number of Path, Noble Hierarch, Birds, Thalia, Leonin Arbiter, Voice, Spellskite, Scooze, Aven Mindcensor, Loxodon Smiter, Linvala, Thrun, and baneslayer/sigarda in the normal configuration. Lands are Fastlands, Shocks, Horizon Canopy, Wildwood, Gavony Townships, Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge.
Options include Vial resto wisp blade splicer package, Gaddock Teeg, Wiltleaf liege, Swords of x and y, dismember, Mirran Crusader, KotR(with fetch lands). I have most of these cards or have access to them.
So, wasteland would be the best card to go for when I get the chance? I imagine that I could get by with fetches(when they are reprinted) and Shocklands for colored mana.
I do own a set of vials and wisp package, the greater density of creatures is just better in my modern meta.. Also own a set of all the swords of x and y.
Mom, sfm, and STP are easy enough to get.
The legacy meta here is pretty varied if that helps in any way.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
For what it's worth, Modern Hatebears is essentially a port of Legacy Maverick. Death and Taxes is, to some exent, the evolution of Maverick, and has largely replaced its spot in the meta.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Seems like you may like to go for Maverick. Revoker is a beast in Legacy too.
Savannas aren't really that pricey, so maybe you can find some of them at an affordable price.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
Burn - mono red. Very cheap and it wins a lot
Affinity - not as good, but still very cheap
Dredge or Oops all Spells
High Tide decks without Candelabra of Tawnos, sometimes called Spring Tide
Start with this:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Consider other dudes such as: Phyrexian Revoker, Jotun Grunt, Aven Mindcensor, Hero of Bladehold, etc.
You don't need to play Wastelands in this deck. You can add Karakas later when/if you get the funds, but it mostly just strengthens your SnT/Reanimator matchup.
This is basically a Maverick variant, but without GSZ. Either way, your manabase will be expensive. If you play Maverick today, probably worth splashing red for Punishing Fire combo or black for DRS and Dark Confidant and Abrupt Decay. And yes, that will cost you even more money.
If you want to play hatebears with a budget manabase, I was thinking about this brew the other day... it's never going to be tier 1 but it has some useful synergies without using expensive lands or bust-the-bank cards (e.g. FoW). Burn, Affinity, Dredge, etc. are better ways to play competitive in Legacy with budget manabases. But this is at least a way to play hatebears if you want to play hatebears for the fun factor, not the win factor.
Multicolor Humans
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
//Creatures: 35
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Dark Confidant
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Meddling Mage
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Glowrider
3 Banisher Priest
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Reflecting Pool
1 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Spell Pierce
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Jotun Grunt
1 Council's Judgment
Or something roughly like that. I guess most of the good hatebears are white so you can get away with Death and Taxes instead of playing 5c hatebears.
In the other colors, the only really appealing hatebear/human targets are:
Grim Lavamancer --- bad without fetchlands
Knight of the Reliquary -- bad without fetchlands and duals
Qasali Pridemage -- great card, not a Human though and there's probably other artifact hate you can run
Noble Hierarch -- good ramp, esp if you want to stay Bant colors (run Razorverge Thicket for this). I picked MoM over this though.
Xathrid Necromancer -- maybe... don't know if flooding the board with generic 2/2s helps your win strategy.
Gaddock Teeg -- only really good as a singleton, makes you want to play GSZ and Maverick
Scavenging Ooze -- same thing
Snapcaster Mage -- bad without spells, obv
Young Pyromancer -- bad without spells, obv
Vendillion Clique -- powerful effect, but maybe not the best fit
Tidehollow Sculler -- fills missing hand disruption role. could be good.
Geist of Saint Traf -- doesn't seem to fit in this deck well
Skirsdag High Priest -- potentially amazing, but makes you want to play a completely different deck to enable it
So despite the ease of making a 5 color manabase, there aren't actually that many creatures you want to splash for. Mainly Bob, Meddling Mage and Pridemage.