I'm itching to build a new legacy deck. I currently have Pox and Deathblade built, and most of my expensive staples tied up in those decks. I realize I'm not going to be able to build a top tier deck without picking up more duals, fetches, ports, wastelands, etc, but I'm hoping there might be a decent budget build out there for me.
I have a set of Aether Vial I'd like to build around. The obvious options are:
Death and Taxes - no spare ports or Karakas
Merfolk - no spare FoW
Goblins - no spare ports
Is some version of any of these decks possible without the pricy utility lands? Is merfolk without FoW worth attempting? Is there another vial deck I should consider?
I think your best bet is Goblins because it's the most efficient without the money lands, which seem to be just there for the late game push the way I see them played.
Though I will say that I run a Death & Taxes build without the money lands occasionally, and I'd place it at about a 30-45% performer, which isn't bad. You just drop some of the more classic taxes (like Mangara of Corondor) for more redundancy of beaters (I use Serra Avenger, Mirran Crusader and Jotun Grunt)). This goes against most logic for Death & Taxes players, though, and it's definitely a much less optimal version of the deck. You will lose a significant amount of games because you couldn't hate their lands out.
Thank you both for the replies. A lot of good options here. BoBo, if you have a list for your D&T-ish deck I'd love to see it. I've seen lists that look like a standard D&T build with budget substitutions (ex: Ghost Quarter for mana denial), but trying to go for the same lockdown strategy with sub-par cards seems like a losing proposition. A more aggressive clock instead of a poor man's resource denial strategy sounds like a much better solution to me.
Yeah, if you're not going to hate the lands out, it's both not Death and Taxes, but more importantly, it loses any real power. Ghost Quarter can't really stand in for Wasteland, much less Wasteland and Rishadan Port combined.
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Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Thank you both for the replies. A lot of good options here. BoBo, if you have a list for your D&T-ish deck I'd love to see it. I've seen lists that look like a standard D&T build with budget substitutions (ex: Ghost Quarter for mana denial), but trying to go for the same lockdown strategy with sub-par cards seems like a losing proposition. A more aggressive clock instead of a poor man's resource denial strategy sounds like a much better solution to me.
Certainly. Most recently, I've been running something like this:
And then Plains. I sometimes runs Flagstones of Trokair when I'm using Armageddon, but that's a meta call. As others are saying, it isn't really Death and Taxes and it's somewhat suboptimal, but it grants you a little extra speed while losing the late game that D&T offers. It's a fun deck to mess with and creates some really cool thought experiments, but you may get thumped depending on your meta.
Just about any creature type with heavy tribal support, and removal in color, can be a decent deck with vial + equipment. Choose a creature type you enjoy that curves out well and begin tuning from there.
Just about any creature type with heavy tribal support, and removal in color, can be a decent deck with vial + equipment. Choose a creature type you enjoy that curves out well and begin tuning from there.
+1, also what does the budget max out at $50, $100, etc
Mono R Goblins is fine without Ports. It's not optimal, but budget decks are not optimal so who cares. Losing Wasteland too hurts though. I'd probably shoot for a WInstigator list.
What is the vial sweetspot in legacy? There are some cash 3 drops in this format that might form a creature base while the rest of the deck just holds out and survives.
These aren't game winners unto themselves but for free with enough defense you could probably get something going. That said, 3 mana might be too many and this may be strictly worse than merfolk.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
I would think something like that would be quite a bit worse than Merfolk or Goblins given the lack of tribal synergy, and the possibility for expensive multi color land bases. Knights, Soldiers or Humans might be possibilities as well.
But as has been said before, throw in some vials, on color removal and disruption and it'll probably pull some games through.
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Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Not sure how much ravagers run for these days but ravager affinity used vials and had a pretty tight clock. Aside from the ravagers you can probably pick up the deck for a song.
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Land (I'm trying to be very budget friendly):
4 Cavern of Souls ($20 each but pretty much necessary)
4 Sliver Hive ($5 each?)
4 Treva's Ruins (cheap ... I like this one since you can tap the land you're pulling back first)
4 City of Brass (or other fast rainbow land you can use for non-creature spells)
8 Basic Forest/Island/Plains (depending on the rest of your spells/slivers/sideboard)
The other 12 cards (any of the following):
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Eladamri's Call (tutoring any slivers)
Green Sun's Zenith (tutoring green lords or harmonic sliver into play)
Harmonic Sliver (recommended)
Plated Sliver
Manaweft Sliver (can be tutored if you need mana fixing)
Sentinel Sliver
Talon Sliver
Quick Sliver
Counterspell
Daze
Spell Pierce
Muddle the Mixture (counter or tutor for a 2cmc sliver you need)
Brainstorm
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Cunning Wish
Glittering Wish
Living Wish
That's just stuff off the top of my head. The vial "sweet spot" is 2 for slivers, that's why I included the galerider/winged split and why Muddle the Mixture is a possibility.
Sideboard:
any of the above spells / slivers + standard stuff (Pithing, Tormod/Relic, Krosan, Torpor, etc...)
Countersliver is a lot worse without Force of Will and fetchlands+duals. (Sliver Hive and Cavern of Souls and Ancient Ziggurat and similar lands make it very hard to cast colored noncreature spells like Counterspell)
Otherwise you have a tribal deck with no game against combo and you're better off just playing 3-color fish hatebears, because at least then your dorks are disruptive instead of only tribal aggro. Or sticking mono colored tribal.
Try this monowhite deck I made for Modern, tweaked for Legacy. Sucks in Legacy, but so will anything budget monocolored Vial deck other than Merfolk or Goblins. I basically just swapped Soul Sisters for more hate.
I've been toying with a red vial deck. Run Vials, Eidolon of the Great Revel and Ash Zealot for some free damage, Sulfuric Vortex to ensure lost life, and some other red beaters. It frees you up to play more expensive spells while allowing you to throw down a fast creature base to smash heads with.
I've been toying with a red vial deck. Run Vials, Eidolon of the Great Revel and Ash Zealot for some free damage, Sulfuric Vortex to ensure lost life, and some other red beaters. It frees you up to play more expensive spells while allowing you to throw down a fast creature base to smash heads with.
What do you think about running Tunnel Ignus in such a deck? It's usually awful, but if opponent just cracked a new fetch you can random blast them for 3 by Vialing this in.
I'm itching to build a new legacy deck. I currently have Pox and Deathblade built, and most of my expensive staples tied up in those decks. I realize I'm not going to be able to build a top tier deck without picking up more duals, fetches, ports, wastelands, etc, but I'm hoping there might be a decent budget build out there for me.
I have a set of Aether Vial I'd like to build around. The obvious options are:
Death and Taxes - no spare ports or Karakas
Merfolk - no spare FoW
Goblins - no spare ports
Is some version of any of these decks possible without the pricy utility lands? Is merfolk without FoW worth attempting? Is there another vial deck I should consider?
Thanks!
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My Trade Thread!
Though I will say that I run a Death & Taxes build without the money lands occasionally, and I'd place it at about a 30-45% performer, which isn't bad. You just drop some of the more classic taxes (like Mangara of Corondor) for more redundancy of beaters (I use Serra Avenger, Mirran Crusader and Jotun Grunt)). This goes against most logic for Death & Taxes players, though, and it's definitely a much less optimal version of the deck. You will lose a significant amount of games because you couldn't hate their lands out.
Just for grins, here's a search for decks that have Aether Vial but don't have FoW, Wasteland or Rishadan Port that might be interesting to you.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
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Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Certainly. Most recently, I've been running something like this:
And then Plains. I sometimes runs Flagstones of Trokair when I'm using Armageddon, but that's a meta call. As others are saying, it isn't really Death and Taxes and it's somewhat suboptimal, but it grants you a little extra speed while losing the late game that D&T offers. It's a fun deck to mess with and creates some really cool thought experiments, but you may get thumped depending on your meta.
+1, also what does the budget max out at $50, $100, etc
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4 Cavern of Souls
3 Chrome Mox
15 Mountain
//Vial: 4
4 Aether Vial
//Goblins: 34
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Tarfire
3 Warren Instigator
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Matron
3 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Ashen Rider
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
Something like that, with sideboard mutable depending on expected meta. Merfolk work well too I guess.
Trygon
selkie
Spymaster
nightveil
augury adept
Daxos
ball lightning
dimir cut purse
These aren't game winners unto themselves but for free with enough defense you could probably get something going. That said, 3 mana might be too many and this may be strictly worse than merfolk.
But as has been said before, throw in some vials, on color removal and disruption and it'll probably pull some games through.
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
What you already have:
4 Aether Vial
Basic Sliver Package:
4 Crystalline Sliver (idk $10 each?)
4 Predatory Sliver (very cheap)
4 Muscle Sliver (cheap)
4 Sinew Sliver (cheap)
2 Galerider Sliver ($5 each?)
2 Winged Sliver (pretty cheap)
Land (I'm trying to be very budget friendly):
4 Cavern of Souls ($20 each but pretty much necessary)
4 Sliver Hive ($5 each?)
4 Treva's Ruins (cheap ... I like this one since you can tap the land you're pulling back first)
4 City of Brass (or other fast rainbow land you can use for non-creature spells)
8 Basic Forest/Island/Plains (depending on the rest of your spells/slivers/sideboard)
The other 12 cards (any of the following):
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Eladamri's Call (tutoring any slivers)
Green Sun's Zenith (tutoring green lords or harmonic sliver into play)
Harmonic Sliver (recommended)
Plated Sliver
Manaweft Sliver (can be tutored if you need mana fixing)
Sentinel Sliver
Talon Sliver
Quick Sliver
Counterspell
Daze
Spell Pierce
Muddle the Mixture (counter or tutor for a 2cmc sliver you need)
Brainstorm
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Cunning Wish
Glittering Wish
Living Wish
That's just stuff off the top of my head. The vial "sweet spot" is 2 for slivers, that's why I included the galerider/winged split and why Muddle the Mixture is a possibility.
Sideboard:
any of the above spells / slivers + standard stuff (Pithing, Tormod/Relic, Krosan, Torpor, etc...)
Pioneer: Spirits
EDH: Ur-Dragon + Lord Windgrace + Arixmethes + Atla Palani + Kalamax
Otherwise you have a tribal deck with no game against combo and you're better off just playing 3-color fish hatebears, because at least then your dorks are disruptive instead of only tribal aggro. Or sticking mono colored tribal.
Try this monowhite deck I made for Modern, tweaked for Legacy. Sucks in Legacy, but so will anything budget monocolored Vial deck other than Merfolk or Goblins. I basically just swapped Soul Sisters for more hate.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
//Creatures: 34
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Mother of Runes
4 Dryad Militant
4 Student of Warfare
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Grand Abolisher
4 Sky Hussar
16 Plains
3 True Believer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Silence
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Leonin Arbiter
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Immortal Servitude
What do you think about running Tunnel Ignus in such a deck? It's usually awful, but if opponent just cracked a new fetch you can random blast them for 3 by Vialing this in.