Some cards I'm thinking about getting rid of, Runechanter's Pike (combat damage isn't the main goal of this deck, requires a creature on the field) Quest for the Nihil Stone (if you don't have it on field turn 1 its kinda difficult to get going, works about half the time)
Also need to tune the numbers and get better lands, any suggestion welcome.
(subtotal $83.05)
Also this deck has gone 2/3 on magic work station legacy testing. Beating a Burn Deck and a Dragon Deck but getting beat by a storm Mill deck.
I think you've got alot of really weak cards in your set up. First with only 17 lands, you'll never be able to cast your 5 casting cost spells effectively. They are just dead cards. That's pretend you have 18 lands to make the match easier. When you draw your first 20 cards, you'll get 6. On turn 3, you'll only have 3 lands. If you mulligan, it gets even worse. Even your drops are going to be hard to cast. It is even worse if you get mana screwed. I'd cut down//dirty and rise from the grave for more lands at the very least.
Augur of Skulls is really weak. If your mana base supported it, look at something like hymn to tourach.
Quest of the Nil Stone is too conditional. You are exactly right that it is a hit or miss card and you can't afford that. Shrieking Affliction or The Rack are better choices. You probably want to split the difference. Likewise Lavaborn muse is cute but too inefficient in terms of mana and weak to removal.
I notice you have lots and lots of 3's. Usually unless you are running a toolbox design (with green sun's zenith, birthing pod, or another engine), you want to play 4's rather than 3's. It just makes your deck more consistent.
I think your deck would struggle against something like re-animator or other combo, especially those that use the graveyard. Against Sneak Show or especially omnitell, you need more options. I really suggest Ensnaring Bridge. If you are using your own resources up, it basically protects you from most creatures. Affinity can get around it by moving cranial plating but it gives you alot more breathing room against most decks. It does shut off your own creatures though.
If you really want to push the jund colors and removal spells, you might look at the Jund style deck (though it is hardly a budget choice because of Lily of the Veil). The other decks that push heavy discard themes are the Gate and Pox. The gate is more about using creatures while pox is more about grinding out a longer game.
I didnt realize my post was so far off. I just counted and there are only 38 nonland and 17 lands. I usually run 40/20. But i like alot of what you said. Think i should make this a creatureless deck and focus directly on cards like the rack and affliction? Ensnaring bridge would protect me from any attack so i could get rid of lightning bolt and maelstrom pulse. But also im not trying to spend $25 bucks a card. This is a budget deck im trying to keep the cards under $8ea. Plus this is more for casual. That being said i also want it to be the best it can be. I like lavaborn muse because it 6 dmg a turn if i can keep the board clear. She is a weak creature but she work well with this deck.
This is a little more spell heavy. With some abilities to take care of reanimator decks. Scavenging ooze can eat creatures in the graveyard. So can Deathrite shaman. Its looks really weak to blue at this point though. Like you said show and tell would destroy this deck. But then again show and tell could whoop a majority of decks right now imo. Im not worried about playing top tier decks. i just thought this was a cool deck idea and wanted to expand on that idea.
I like where this is going. I think it might need red elemental blast to help against blue combo decks. or maybe an all around good combo breaker card.
Im going to test this deck out for a while for the moment.
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**** you for playing with Elves, ... I hate elves.
I'll admit I really like the muses myself too. I use Graveborn in my EDH deck. The problem is most creatures are up to the standard of Bloodbraid Elf at 4 mana. She is just two spells and that virtual card advantage is hard to beat. Even if she gets removed, she still does something and something usually cool. It just seems like your Deathrites or other creatures could close the game out much better with alot less mana invested in one turn. You could look at all Jund lists from yesteryear if you wanted to find more creatures that are finishers. Stuff like Broodmate Dragon or Thragtusk were great Jund cards because even if you killed them, they had a second body and in Thrag's case, life padding to get you to the end game. In legacy, I think Thrag sucks up in a few decks like Nic Fit but rarely in discard based decks. I think they tend to use Tombstalker or if mono black Phyrexian Obliterater.
I don't know much about Browbeat in context of a discard deck, but straight Burn decks consider it a bad card because you'll never get the effect you really want.
I actually thought Ensnaring Bridge was a 5 dollar card, not a 25 dollar one. My apologies. I got my playsets at that price and was shocked to see it rise so much.
Scavenging Ooze is an excellent creature. It hoses graveyard strats and also gives life against faster deck clocks and becomes a sizable threat.
The other big cards that you sometimes see are Liliana's Caress and stuff like Diabolic Edict. (There's a whole line of edict cards like Chainers and Geth's Verdict and so forth and cards that do similar things like Innocent Blood and Smallpox). Caress isn't widely used in legacy to my knowledge, but it makes your resource denial dangerous to them. The edicts are nice catch alls to creatures. They can hit stuff that has hexproof or shroud and can even get indestructible creatures. That's wonderful they cheated that 15 mana eldarzi into play, now sacrifice him.
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3 Augur of Skulls
3 Lavaborn Muse
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Quest for the Nihil Stone
2 Raven's Crime
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Life from the Loam
2 Runechanter's Pike
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Blightning
2 Rise from the Grave
2 Down // Dirty
5 Mountain
4 Forest
8 Swamp
The object of this deck is to get out a few trigger effect cards like Lavaborn Muse and Quest for the Nihil Stone. Then make them discard down to 0 and keep them there with the Raven's Crime, Life from the Loam combo.
Powerful combos like Bloodbraid Elf into Blightning. There is decent creatures control with cards like Lightning Bolt and Maelstrom Pulse. Also, Augur of Skulls is a nice multifaceted creature.
Some cards I'm thinking about getting rid of,
Runechanter's Pike (combat damage isn't the main goal of this deck, requires a creature on the field)
Quest for the Nihil Stone (if you don't have it on field turn 1 its kinda difficult to get going, works about half the time)
Also need to tune the numbers and get better lands, any suggestion welcome.
(subtotal $83.05)
Also this deck has gone 2/3 on magic work station legacy testing. Beating a Burn Deck and a Dragon Deck but getting beat by a storm Mill deck.
Augur of Skulls is really weak. If your mana base supported it, look at something like hymn to tourach.
Quest of the Nil Stone is too conditional. You are exactly right that it is a hit or miss card and you can't afford that. Shrieking Affliction or The Rack are better choices. You probably want to split the difference. Likewise Lavaborn muse is cute but too inefficient in terms of mana and weak to removal.
I notice you have lots and lots of 3's. Usually unless you are running a toolbox design (with green sun's zenith, birthing pod, or another engine), you want to play 4's rather than 3's. It just makes your deck more consistent.
I think your deck would struggle against something like re-animator or other combo, especially those that use the graveyard. Against Sneak Show or especially omnitell, you need more options. I really suggest Ensnaring Bridge. If you are using your own resources up, it basically protects you from most creatures. Affinity can get around it by moving cranial plating but it gives you alot more breathing room against most decks. It does shut off your own creatures though.
If you really want to push the jund colors and removal spells, you might look at the Jund style deck (though it is hardly a budget choice because of Lily of the Veil). The other decks that push heavy discard themes are the Gate and Pox. The gate is more about using creatures while pox is more about grinding out a longer game.
heres a deck with some changes made.
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Lavaborn Muse
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 The Rack
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Browbeat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Blightning
7 Swamp
5 Mountain
4 Forest
This is a little more spell heavy. With some abilities to take care of reanimator decks. Scavenging ooze can eat creatures in the graveyard. So can Deathrite shaman. Its looks really weak to blue at this point though. Like you said show and tell would destroy this deck. But then again show and tell could whoop a majority of decks right now imo. Im not worried about playing top tier decks. i just thought this was a cool deck idea and wanted to expand on that idea.
I like where this is going. I think it might need red elemental blast to help against blue combo decks. or maybe an all around good combo breaker card.
Im going to test this deck out for a while for the moment.
I don't know much about Browbeat in context of a discard deck, but straight Burn decks consider it a bad card because you'll never get the effect you really want.
I actually thought Ensnaring Bridge was a 5 dollar card, not a 25 dollar one. My apologies. I got my playsets at that price and was shocked to see it rise so much.
Scavenging Ooze is an excellent creature. It hoses graveyard strats and also gives life against faster deck clocks and becomes a sizable threat.
The other big cards that you sometimes see are Liliana's Caress and stuff like Diabolic Edict. (There's a whole line of edict cards like Chainers and Geth's Verdict and so forth and cards that do similar things like Innocent Blood and Smallpox). Caress isn't widely used in legacy to my knowledge, but it makes your resource denial dangerous to them. The edicts are nice catch alls to creatures. They can hit stuff that has hexproof or shroud and can even get indestructible creatures. That's wonderful they cheated that 15 mana eldarzi into play, now sacrifice him.