I see. The u/b version seems like it's 1 or 2 turns slower than the original ddft (mainly because LDV doesn't draw the card and the lack of LED for ramping mana).
So by the time we can combo out we'll usually be already dead. Maybe more discard like hymn to tourach or even control spells like innocent blood and mana leak could help surviving until then.
Isn't it more reliable if we pack disruption instead of the glass cannon with saclands? is it acceptable if I pack FoW in this U/B shell instead of cabal therapy for combo security or even pact of negation? because stifle on storm trigger from Tendril's will be GG for the opponent. (I know it is a budget Thread, but simply enough, I have 4 FoW and no therapies)
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think with this hatebear every non Death and Taxes deck will suffer a lot. Actually it's a great anti-blue card.
For protecting against hate we have Chain of Vapor that is simply awesome. Cast it on your Lotus Petal to get +1 storm, then sac a land to bounce the hate.
I see, the U/B version of this deck could use some Peer Through Dephts (although Lim Dul's Vault does it better). The main problem I see with U/B is how you're going to make U when going off, since you will generate lots of BBB and none U.
This is why i had proposed many of the cheap duals to provide U for us. As lotus petal and land are our only blue sources. However, our current iteration also includes more black accelerants and Infernal Contract as the main draw engine as BBBBBB isn't nearly as hard to make. Using Gitaxian Probe,[CARD] Sensei's Divining Top
[/CARD], Night's Whisper, and/or Street Wraith provide us many outs to needing blue mana.
Also, 1U is generally expensive for a cantrip. There are better ways to dig deep, or cantrip. I chose LDV due to its precision in finding EXACTLY what we need. I couldn't find a way to mimic burning wish in a budget build that could act as a toolbox of answers and be doomsday copies 4,5,6. In our build without top + fetches + brainstorm + fetches, 6 copies of Doomsday wasn't going to be enough and i wanted 8 reliable draws that can be counted as Doomsday. We absolutely have to find it to win.
i think fow could work, but it would not be so awesome in this deck since you need something to pitch for.
since this deck is slow I was thinking about lotus bloom. It can replace the first LED, what do you guys think?
FoW isn't budget, also there has been previous discussion as to why it does not work.
Lotus bloom is risky, it can't fill LED spot because you cannot use it for piles, and if you draw it other than opening hand, it's relatively worthless. It makes a slow deck.... slower.....
What about Blood Celebrant? To me it seems a good mana filter, since you'll generate tons of black mana anyways
It's a creature, which is probably the first and foremost reason to dismiss it. Also, I don't think color filtering is too much of a problem with a 2 color deck. Especially one that can really just use 1. However early on the second can make it significantly faster.
Other wise, Chromatic sphere/star are nearly as efficient + they draw cards, + they aren't creatures. It's a significant advantage that we don't have creatures, as this way any Swords To Plowshares or Innocent bloods are simply dead draws, and makes our deck much more efficient at beating decks with wasted draws.
There are reasons combo decks bring in creatures like Dark Confidant in game 2, expecting that said useless removal form game 1 has probably been boarded out.
Yeah LDV is the best thing we can use here to get DD, but PtD could be included instead of maybe Preordain or Ponder, or is it sometimes needed to get to your land so Ponder and Preordain are favorable?
Also would you prefere Shelldock Isle+ Emrakul or Laboratory Maniac as the sideboard option? Or does that depend on what your enemy plays? Do I always board out the Tendrils plan because it is likely to face Leyline of Sanctity?
I know FoW isn't budget, it was just a question if it would do the same job for protection as Cabal Therapy...
What is our thing against Flusterstorm? i mean it means were just dead? also Dures and therapy? Or might Stifle or even Trickbind be an option?
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Duress and Therapy are generally the best for combo decks. Because oftentimes the information is enough to go off. Let's say they don't have hard counters in hand, but we see spell snare + daze. We can play around that. Just have to allocate +3 mana to our chain. So sometimes the insight can be much more effective than reaction. And being proactive, we can duress on our turn, set up with a cantrip, and next turn go off.
Silence/Orim's Chant also work well as a catch all answer to counterspells. As if they dont counter, you're free to go.
The issue with force, is it costs you 2 cars to use, and life, and it doesnt give information. So this puts you in a pickle that you've gone off hoping FoW will protect you... but then they do something like trickBind your tendrils, or vial in a cursecatcher. Duress and therapy can get those, or, they can let you know to play around it. They are usually before you go off, so investing mana isn't as much of a committment and you get to know if you have to build a better hand or if you're clear.
Flusterstorm, dies to duress, silence, therapy. It's just another counter. It's like playing against stifle among other things. Also, with duress therapy, you can plan on how much mana they can spend. If they tap out, ou might be in the clear. Or if you didn't see FoW maybe go for it and hope they didn't draw it. Etc. Playing reactively after you just committed to 1/2 your life and 5 cards puts you in a sticky situation. Where duress, therapy, etc.. let you see that you're in a sticky situation before you commit.
We won't ever board tendrils out. As it is always the Go To path of victory. We also have less flexibility in a deck like this than ddft where there are more creative sideboarding options for avoiding specific cards.
I prefer SI/Emrakul, as lab man still dies to most of the same hate that stops tendrils. The only difference is you can force him through with passing turns. But at the same time Emmy does too but has different hate.
Also with flusterstorm. It probably means you're dead if you're not ready. But you could make an interesting double ToA pile where if you had enough going into it. Meditate + DR + RoF (generates more mana with > 3 lands in play) ToA ToA. it would take 2U+B+B (5 lands for RoF) post doomsday. This way if they save fluster storm for Tendrils, you let the first tendrils fizzle and play the second for the win. As you still get +5 storm from the pile + 1 for the flusterstorm. already at (6 storm), likely played DD this turn (7 storm), and probably needed a cantrip to draw inot the pile (8 storm).
DD is such a flexible card. It really takes time until you start really seeing your options.
Ok I get that, it's really interesting to see all those options. Is it also viable to take a route with Shelldock isle emrakul and Labman also in the pile so he has to deal with both?
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I don't get how another DD will provide extra turns with emmy, if I already played DD and SI into Emmy... normally we always go with the Tendril's kill, what is the situation when you change your strategy? I mean mostly you will face a Leyline of Sanctity in G2 we only got Chain of vapor to remove them, so we need to include it into our DD pile if we don't have it in hand already right? or is Echoing truth the better way to go?
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I prefer SI/Emrakul, as lab man still dies to most of the same hate that stops tendrils. The only difference is you can force him through with passing turns.
SI can be wastelanded as well
A good SI/Emrakul pile example (maybe not original but hey):
(top) Brainstorm Faerie Conclave Shelldock Isle Lotus Petal Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
(bottom)
All you need post-DD is a land that provides U, at least 2 cards in hand (ideally at least 3, 1 being a Gitaxian Probe), and 1U in your mana pool.
With this configuration, you can beat twice with Emmy. This should suffice IMO.
Although, we're on Budget Legacy threads, and Emmy is $40 but it's a good pile for the mana price.
If anything is wastelanded or countered, that's 99% game over.
Anyway, I love my Lab Man pile. Its only drawback is that you need 3UB post DD, but that's it. If Lab Man enters the battlefield, it's GG.
Both piles are great, and I bet Emmy's is more reliable. But I don't have it, or the money to buy one right now. If I do, I'll test both. But you see, my pile is my pet pile
Yeah I know it's the budget section, but why not use cards I already have? =) Looking at your pile tells me I have to work hard on the basic piles and need a lot of practise to build extraordinary piles adapting to the situation I am in... So the main thing with SI is, you didn't put a land into play post DD, and the thing is, I dont get why Faerie Conclave is in it... aren't there much better cards to include in this pile à la protection in form of Therapy or Duress instead of FC?
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Yeah I know it's the budget section, but why not use cards I already have? =) Looking at your pile tells me I have to work hard on the basic piles and need a lot of practise to build extraordinary piles adapting to the situation I am in... So the main thing with SI is, you didn't put a land into play post DD, and the thing is, I dont get why Faerie Conclave is in it... aren't there much better cards to include in this pile à la protection in form of Therapy or Duress instead of FC?
First of all, agreed, I'd use an Emmy if I had one but it's nice not having one so I put this Lab Man pile on my own. Being a former Modern Eggs player helped too
Explaining my SI/Emmy pile: So you have 1U post-DD in pool, a land providing U on table (say, Gemstone Mine), 2+ cards in hand.
Pay U, cast Brainstorm, take Faerie, SI and Petal, return 2 cards in your hand to the library. Cast Petal and SI. Use Petal for U + 1 in your pool and cast Faerie Conclave.
Untap Gemstone Mine and SI (ahha!), tap Gemstone for U, tap SI and cast Emmy in this very turn, thanks to Faerie Conclave. Take your extra turn. You have 2 Emmy beatings before you deck yourself (of course, you can always have another DD in hand, etc).
It's a kinda all-or-nothing pile but it might work. Traded protection for 1 less turn. Clearly debatable, but it's an idea. Cheers!
Edit 1: typos.
Edit 2: you can already have another source or mana to Faerie Conclave on board, so with this you can think about Duress instead of Petal and BU pre-DD (or no additional mana source and 1BU on pool) and there you go. My first pile was based on the cheapest way to cast Emmy already prepared to beat, even on a very very lucky T2. Still not wasteland- and counter-proof but hey, still a good exercise if you ask me.
I think you mean Cloud of Faeries instead of Faerie Conclave (edit Spelling) then it makes sense to me, because if you drop Faery Conclave, which is a land you can't drop Shelldock Isle... may thatbe the issue? =)
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I think you mean Cloud of Faeries instead of Faerie Conclave (edit Spelling) then it makes sense to me, because if you drop Faery Conclave, which is a land you can't drop Shelldock Isle... may thatbe the issue? =)
Omfg you're right... Sorry about that. Now we all know I don't own any of these cards lol.
I don't get how another DD will provide extra turns with emmy, if I already played DD and SI into Emmy... normally we always go with the Tendril's kill, what is the situation when you change your strategy? I mean mostly you will face a Leyline of Sanctity in G2 we only got Chain of vapor to remove them, so we need to include it into our DD pile if we don't have it in hand already right? or is Echoing truth the better way to go?
When tendrils isn't enough. A situation where they have 40 life or fog or some stupid crap and 2 swings wont cut it. Also, against control heavy teams, ramping up a tendrils can be hard. Sor there are situations where a pile like SI/Silence/Silence/DD/EMMy will give enough protection force through DD and give the extra turns needed to win. It's not every situation... but there are some.
Hello guys, I found another big problem piloting DD! Chalice of the Void on 1. there is no wayto get around it or remove it because our only bounce spell is Chain of Vapor for U all cantrips DuressCabal Therapy they all are on the 1cmc and I just don't want to autoscoop to a f****** chalice. So here are my options and I wanted to know what you think of them:
1. Echoing truth - only 2 cmc; fitting our colors; only 1U; Bounces all Chalices; may be used to eliminate Tokens (Bridge from Below, Empty the warrens)
2. Shattering spree- only 1 cmc; could be provided with Gemstone mine and Lotus Petal; needs to be replicated adds to storm count+2 hates all artifacts out
3. Hurkyl's recall - only 2 cmc; fitting color; only 1U; bounces all Chalice and all artifacts; can be used to add to stormcount with Lotus Petal; hates all artifacts out "kills" affinity or gets us time against them
I would appreciate if anyone has some more Ideas to react on a chalice on 1 and not just autoscoop =)
Edit: And I also need some good advice when do I keep hands and when do I need to take mulligans? At least you need in hand either DD and some protection like Duress or Therapy? Or do i need some cantrips to find DD? all other hands I can just ignore or am I totally wrong?
There is no easy answer to what you keep or scoop, as it's often dependent against the type of deck you are playing. If you are against a fast aggro deck you need a faster hand. Whereas against certain control decks, having lots of discard and some cantrips to set up are more valuable than the early DD. Land also is very valuable in these matchups. As you need to cast disruption + combo off.
Well Serenity is a nice way to deal with all types of threads like Chalice and leylines. I'll consider that as one of the best options. So maybe I will go for the white splash so I can get Silence as well to protect my combo turn. Isn't there a problem with Hexmage interacting with chalice of the void? Or am I not getting the rules right ? doesn't it only matter how many counters are on chalice when it is cast?
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Well Serenity is a nice way to deal with all types of threads like Chalice and leylines. I'll consider that as one of the best options. So maybe I will go for the white splash so I can get Silence as well to protect my combo turn. Isn't there a problem with Hexmage interacting with chalice of the void? Or am I not getting the rules right ? doesn't it only matter how many counters are on chalice when it is cast?
Chalice of the Void's ability reads "Whenever a player casts a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell." This ability is tied to the counters on the Chalice, not the cost you paid when you cast the Chalice. So if you have an effect that can manipulate the number of counters on Chalice of the Void (for example, Vampire Hexmage removing all of the counters), then you can manipulate which converted mana cost spells the Chalice will counter.
I'm not playing the Budget lists, but my answers to Chalice are to play Laboratory Maniac, play Hurkyl's Recall, and splash Green to play Abrupt Decay. The Maniac plan is not as good of a legitimate plan B without LED and Top in your deck (I maindeck Laboratory Maniac because LED and Top let you pass the turn and win the game when you untap for three mana), but if you're facing a lot of Chalice opponents then putting Maniac in your sideboard and being able to just cast Doomsday and make a pile with lands, Hurkyl's Recall, and Laboratory Maniac might be a direction you would want to investigate.
^^ sorry for the necro post.
I'd like to share you my final-ish version, and I'd like to ask you some help regarding CHEAP sideboard options.
Thanks in advance!
Reanimator, Goblins, and D&T are some threats in my meta.
I have Faerie Macabre (good against some GY based things also) and Dread of Night (kill Thalia) to add to SB.
I guess Goblins are already a good matchup. Maybe Pithing their non-basics I can succeed. Blood Moon is a nightmare but nobody uses it, I guess. Only a bunch of Islands on SB can save me lol...
So my first try would be
So by the time we can combo out we'll usually be already dead. Maybe more discard like hymn to tourach or even control spells like innocent blood and mana leak could help surviving until then.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
since this deck is slow I was thinking about lotus bloom. It can replace the first LED, what do you guys think?
This is why i had proposed many of the cheap duals to provide U for us. As lotus petal and land are our only blue sources. However, our current iteration also includes more black accelerants and Infernal Contract as the main draw engine as BBBBBB isn't nearly as hard to make. Using Gitaxian Probe,[CARD] Sensei's Divining Top
[/CARD], Night's Whisper, and/or Street Wraith provide us many outs to needing blue mana.
Also, 1U is generally expensive for a cantrip. There are better ways to dig deep, or cantrip. I chose LDV due to its precision in finding EXACTLY what we need. I couldn't find a way to mimic burning wish in a budget build that could act as a toolbox of answers and be doomsday copies 4,5,6. In our build without top + fetches + brainstorm + fetches, 6 copies of Doomsday wasn't going to be enough and i wanted 8 reliable draws that can be counted as Doomsday. We absolutely have to find it to win.
FoW isn't budget, also there has been previous discussion as to why it does not work.
Lotus bloom is risky, it can't fill LED spot because you cannot use it for piles, and if you draw it other than opening hand, it's relatively worthless. It makes a slow deck.... slower.....
It's a creature, which is probably the first and foremost reason to dismiss it. Also, I don't think color filtering is too much of a problem with a 2 color deck. Especially one that can really just use 1. However early on the second can make it significantly faster.
Other wise, Chromatic sphere/star are nearly as efficient + they draw cards, + they aren't creatures. It's a significant advantage that we don't have creatures, as this way any Swords To Plowshares or Innocent bloods are simply dead draws, and makes our deck much more efficient at beating decks with wasted draws.
There are reasons combo decks bring in creatures like Dark Confidant in game 2, expecting that said useless removal form game 1 has probably been boarded out.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
Also would you prefere Shelldock Isle+ Emrakul or Laboratory Maniac as the sideboard option? Or does that depend on what your enemy plays? Do I always board out the Tendrils plan because it is likely to face Leyline of Sanctity?
I know FoW isn't budget, it was just a question if it would do the same job for protection as Cabal Therapy...
What is our thing against Flusterstorm? i mean it means were just dead? also Dures and therapy? Or might Stifle or even Trickbind be an option?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Silence/Orim's Chant also work well as a catch all answer to counterspells. As if they dont counter, you're free to go.
The issue with force, is it costs you 2 cars to use, and life, and it doesnt give information. So this puts you in a pickle that you've gone off hoping FoW will protect you... but then they do something like trickBind your tendrils, or vial in a cursecatcher. Duress and therapy can get those, or, they can let you know to play around it. They are usually before you go off, so investing mana isn't as much of a committment and you get to know if you have to build a better hand or if you're clear.
Flusterstorm, dies to duress, silence, therapy. It's just another counter. It's like playing against stifle among other things. Also, with duress therapy, you can plan on how much mana they can spend. If they tap out, ou might be in the clear. Or if you didn't see FoW maybe go for it and hope they didn't draw it. Etc. Playing reactively after you just committed to 1/2 your life and 5 cards puts you in a sticky situation. Where duress, therapy, etc.. let you see that you're in a sticky situation before you commit.
We won't ever board tendrils out. As it is always the Go To path of victory. We also have less flexibility in a deck like this than ddft where there are more creative sideboarding options for avoiding specific cards.
I prefer SI/Emrakul, as lab man still dies to most of the same hate that stops tendrils. The only difference is you can force him through with passing turns. But at the same time Emmy does too but has different hate.
Also with flusterstorm. It probably means you're dead if you're not ready. But you could make an interesting double ToA pile where if you had enough going into it. Meditate + DR + RoF (generates more mana with > 3 lands in play) ToA ToA. it would take 2U+B+B (5 lands for RoF) post doomsday. This way if they save fluster storm for Tendrils, you let the first tendrils fizzle and play the second for the win. As you still get +5 storm from the pile + 1 for the flusterstorm. already at (6 storm), likely played DD this turn (7 storm), and probably needed a cantrip to draw inot the pile (8 storm).
DD is such a flexible card. It really takes time until you start really seeing your options.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
SI can be wastelanded as well
A good SI/Emrakul pile example (maybe not original but hey):
(top)
Brainstorm
Faerie Conclave
Shelldock Isle
Lotus Petal
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
(bottom)
All you need post-DD is a land that provides U, at least 2 cards in hand (ideally at least 3, 1 being a Gitaxian Probe), and 1U in your mana pool.
With this configuration, you can beat twice with Emmy. This should suffice IMO.
Although, we're on Budget Legacy threads, and Emmy is $40 but it's a good pile for the mana price.
If anything is wastelanded or countered, that's 99% game over.
Anyway, I love my Lab Man pile. Its only drawback is that you need 3UB post DD, but that's it. If Lab Man enters the battlefield, it's GG.
Both piles are great, and I bet Emmy's is more reliable. But I don't have it, or the money to buy one right now. If I do, I'll test both. But you see, my pile is my pet pile
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
First of all, agreed, I'd use an Emmy if I had one but it's nice not having one so I put this Lab Man pile on my own. Being a former Modern Eggs player helped too
Explaining my SI/Emmy pile: So you have 1U post-DD in pool, a land providing U on table (say, Gemstone Mine), 2+ cards in hand.
Pay U, cast Brainstorm, take Faerie, SI and Petal, return 2 cards in your hand to the library. Cast Petal and SI. Use Petal for U + 1 in your pool and cast Faerie Conclave.
Untap Gemstone Mine and SI (ahha!), tap Gemstone for U, tap SI and cast Emmy in this very turn, thanks to Faerie Conclave. Take your extra turn. You have 2 Emmy beatings before you deck yourself (of course, you can always have another DD in hand, etc).
It's a kinda all-or-nothing pile but it might work. Traded protection for 1 less turn. Clearly debatable, but it's an idea. Cheers!
Edit 1: typos.
Edit 2: you can already have another source or mana to Faerie Conclave on board, so with this you can think about Duress instead of Petal and BU pre-DD (or no additional mana source and 1BU on pool) and there you go. My first pile was based on the cheapest way to cast Emmy already prepared to beat, even on a very very lucky T2. Still not wasteland- and counter-proof but hey, still a good exercise if you ask me.
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Omfg you're right... Sorry about that. Now we all know I don't own any of these cards lol.
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
When tendrils isn't enough. A situation where they have 40 life or fog or some stupid crap and 2 swings wont cut it. Also, against control heavy teams, ramping up a tendrils can be hard. Sor there are situations where a pile like SI/Silence/Silence/DD/EMMy will give enough protection force through DD and give the extra turns needed to win. It's not every situation... but there are some.
Against D&T and Elves, Damnation would do but it's NOT budget...
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
D&T : win first? Massacre, Virtue's Ruin, Dread of Night,
1. Echoing truth - only 2 cmc; fitting our colors; only 1U; Bounces all Chalices; may be used to eliminate Tokens (Bridge from Below, Empty the warrens)
2. Shattering spree- only 1 cmc; could be provided with Gemstone mine and Lotus Petal; needs to be replicated adds to storm count+2 hates all artifacts out
3. Hurkyl's recall - only 2 cmc; fitting color; only 1U; bounces all Chalice and all artifacts; can be used to add to stormcount with Lotus Petal; hates all artifacts out "kills" affinity or gets us time against them
I would appreciate if anyone has some more Ideas to react on a chalice on 1 and not just autoscoop =)
Edit: And I also need some good advice when do I keep hands and when do I need to take mulligans? At least you need in hand either DD and some protection like Duress or Therapy? Or do i need some cantrips to find DD? all other hands I can just ignore or am I totally wrong?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
If white is available I used Serenity. If not. I would stick to Hurkyl's Recall. Other possibilities include ratchet bomb and/or powder keg.
For giggles: Vampire Hexmage.
There is no easy answer to what you keep or scoop, as it's often dependent against the type of deck you are playing. If you are against a fast aggro deck you need a faster hand. Whereas against certain control decks, having lots of discard and some cantrips to set up are more valuable than the early DD. Land also is very valuable in these matchups. As you need to cast disruption + combo off.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Chalice of the Void's ability reads "Whenever a player casts a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell." This ability is tied to the counters on the Chalice, not the cost you paid when you cast the Chalice. So if you have an effect that can manipulate the number of counters on Chalice of the Void (for example, Vampire Hexmage removing all of the counters), then you can manipulate which converted mana cost spells the Chalice will counter.
I'm not playing the Budget lists, but my answers to Chalice are to play Laboratory Maniac, play Hurkyl's Recall, and splash Green to play Abrupt Decay. The Maniac plan is not as good of a legitimate plan B without LED and Top in your deck (I maindeck Laboratory Maniac because LED and Top let you pass the turn and win the game when you untap for three mana), but if you're facing a lot of Chalice opponents then putting Maniac in your sideboard and being able to just cast Doomsday and make a pile with lands, Hurkyl's Recall, and Laboratory Maniac might be a direction you would want to investigate.
7x Swamp
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Tainted Isle
Mana Acceleration:
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
1x Rain of Filth
Defense:
4x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Chain of Vapor
4x Lim-Dûl's Vault
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Preordain
1x Ponder
1x Infernal Contract
1x Meditate
4x Doomsday
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
Kill:
1x Tendrils of Agony
3x Dread of Night
3x Pithing Needle
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Defense Grid
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Chromatic Sphere
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
I'd like to share you my final-ish version, and I'd like to ask you some help regarding CHEAP sideboard options.
Thanks in advance!
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
I have Faerie Macabre (good against some GY based things also) and Dread of Night (kill Thalia) to add to SB.
I guess Goblins are already a good matchup. Maybe Pithing their non-basics I can succeed.
Blood Moon is a nightmare but nobody uses it, I guess. Only a bunch of Islands on SB can save me lol...
So my first try would be
3x Dread of Night
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Defense Grid
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Chromatic Sphere
Chill could help me against anything red... but I dunno...
What do you think?
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G