Looks nice
I'd use 1 more Cabal maindeck and 1 RoF less.
Do you have this manabase? There are cheaper options.
For SB I'd consider Extirpate or Surgical Extraction instead of IoK. Even Faerie Macabre as a budget option. No 2nd IC, one more Cabal and RoF. The 2nd CoV is OK. You still have 6 open slots, maybe Defense Grid, Pithing Needle can help against control and some keycards.
If you need some extra brainstorming post here or pmsg. Eh nois
Also, Lab Man + Chromatic Star is stronger and a 2-card win. 1-mana more expensive but if both spells resolve, you can't lose anymore.
Side: yes..i forgot about grave hate. I have Surgical Extraction, Tormod's Crypt, etc. I'm not worried about the side deck, it depends very much on my meta.
About Laboratory Maniac and Chromatic Star: these two cards are in place of Tendrils ? Or i keep Tendrils and add this two ?
I'm worried about the deck, because as you know, the prices of the cards here in Brazil are absurd !
Plus manabase, if Gemstone Mine and City of Brass don't serve. Currently, I will not use the deck in tournament, but in the future who knows. After I've practiced well with DDFT, and my budget allow, i can buy the more expensive cards.
I Need not be exactly this list. I need a budget list to start, because i never played with DDFT and dont know what card is better then other (in budget).
Plus manabase, if Gemstone Mine and City of Brass don't serve. Currently, I will not use the deck in tournament, but in the future who knows. After I've practiced well with DDFT, and my budget allow, i can buy the more expensive cards.
City is going to be painful, as are shocks, that's why we are sticking to 2 colors. You can't afford to take damage every turn, and you need the multi colored lands to insure you can brainstorm/ponder/etc turns 1-3 and also have the black mana as much as possible turns 2-4. But if you take 5 from your land + x from your opponent, you may not have enough life for DD + IC. Or even to DD and avoid dying to other shenanigans like lightning bolt/etc.
I Need not be exactly this list. I need a budget list to start, because i never played with DDFT and dont know what card is better then other (in budget).
Tanks !
You want it in addition. Although personally SI/Emrakul is still another viable option but these give you a gameplan against heavy control when you probably wont get the chance to cast 10 spells but dont want to be dead in the water holding onto DD. this way you can force DD through (early usually) and worst case draw your pile the hard way and then win with a "smaller" combo.
Also, there really is no reason for 12x targeted discard. I would find something with more targeted hate. Graveyard, dread of night, etc... get more focused proactive hate in those spots.
Also, i havent really played recently, but does anyone have opinions on 4x Lim-dul's vault.... i feel like 3 lim dul and 3 preordain might be better. Lim-dul in excess isn't helpful and cantrips are so valuable for drawing into the pile. Just a thought.
Hello
I've been looking for a combo deck lately and I was wondering if I could try Doomsday.
Would Amulet of Vigor be viable in this deck? It does make all tapped lands come in untapped.
And would progenitus be a good replacement for emrakul if you're planning to run the shelldock isle combo on sideboard?
Hello
I've been looking for a combo deck lately and I was wondering if I could try Doomsday.
Would Amulet of Vigor be viable in this deck? It does make all tapped lands come in untapped.
And would progenitus be a good replacement for emrakul if you're planning to run the shelldock isle combo on sideboard?
Amulet isn't worth it. As it doesn't really contribute much to the deck especially as we start to move away from sac lands.
If you're looking for it towards the SI combo may as well run Twiddle i think it is.... As it has multiple uses (even then fairly useless).
Proggy doesn't work as well as Emmy because without the annihilator effect you cannot guarantee the victory in t minus 2 turns. You run into the issue where they get Batterskull and life steal themselves up until you deck yourself. They find Wrath of God, Perish , etc or swing with enough creatures to kill you as you are most likely at < 5 life post doomsday.
The clock is there but without the annihilator trigger you are in a much much much riskier situation.
Proggy doesn't work as well as Emmy because without the annihilator effect you cannot guarantee the victory in t minus 2 turns.
More importantly, Emrakul can't be countered. If you cast Doomsday and put Progenitus under Shelldock Isle, you can flat-out lose to a counterspell on Progenitus.
Would conjurer's bauble be good in the deck? It is another cantrip that can be used, even if you don't put anything back on the bottom.
and is overmaster good in the deck? It does stop counterspells. And in desperate situation, acts as a cantrip. wild cantor looks pretty good too, chump blocks, adds mana, etc, is he any good?
Would conjurer's bauble be good in the deck? It is another cantrip that can be used, even if you don't put anything back on the bottom.
and is overmaster good in the deck? It does stop counterspells. And in desperate situation, acts as a cantrip. wild cantor looks pretty good too, chump blocks, adds mana, etc, is he any good?
These questions suggest you should read through the entire thread and proxy up the deck first as you don't have a very clear understanding of how the deck operates and fundamental theory.
Or if you are going to suggest stuff take the time to argue as to why they would be good suggestions as opposed to just receiving an onslaught of noes.
EDIT: sorry, i didn't have time for this before....
Let me break this down for sake of argument: conjurer's bauble : Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith, Sensei's Divining Top, All do what this card can and more. The best option's including SDT and Probe, but in the budget forum top becomes a concern. Top does what the bobble does in addition to letting you set up for following turns. Getting to see 3 new cards a turn, of course in the non-budget versions fetch lands make this 10x more effective as you can repeatedly see new cards.....
overmaster: The only card we want to protect like this is doomsday and burning wish, but cards like duress and silence do this and more... Overmaste is reactive, however the other cards are pro-active. These cards force you to deal with those, ignoring the more importan cards. WIth these cards they must waste counterspells and resources to deal with less than lethal cards, but also give you as the combo player a lot of information.
wild cantor looks pretty good too, chump blocks, adds mana, etc, is he any good?
Creatures in any form defeat a major upside of combo. Not playing creatures can make 4+ cards of any deck absolutely useless.
Playing Swords To Plowshares, Innocent blood, Lightning Bolt, etc....becomes 4+ worthless cards in the deck. Every wasted card becomes an advantage for us to win on. As game 1, none of our cards are useless. Things like duress, silence, orim's chant,cabal therapy, etc.. can be game winners in any match. But here we go back to the idea of how much we need to know about their deck and what in their deck is prohibitive to us winning. because many of our cards are resources to us winning making their cards useless becomes that much more important. The downside to being faster than other decks, is many of our cards are worthless by themselves.
Thanks:)
I just kind of felt like the discard spells are useless IMO. they don't really help you storm, and they can be a dead draw late game, so I was just thinking of ways to replace them
But they are proactive ways of dealing with problems, so it's ok
Thanks:)
I just kind of felt like the discard spells are useless IMO. they don't really help you storm, and they can be a dead draw late game, so I was just thinking of ways to replace them
But they are proactive ways of dealing with problems, so it's ok
They are the most important cards late game. The biggest fear of playing combo are not knowing what your opponent can do to win and combo spells.
The nice thing with doomsday, is that when you can win, you know 100% you win. There's no chance. So making sure you know what your opponent has or removing the problems are absolutely key.
If we wanted a faster deck, we'd be playing budget belcher, in which many of those suggestions would probably fit.
They are the most important cards late game. The biggest fear of playing combo are not knowing what your opponent can do to win and combo spells.
The nice thing with doomsday, is that when you can win, you know 100% you win. There's no chance. So making sure you know what your opponent has or removing the problems are absolutely key.
If we wanted a faster deck, we'd be playing budget belcher, in which many of those suggestions would probably fit.
or all spells, all spells can be cheap and wins quickly too
I just needed a fun, challenging deck that doesn't win t1, which is why I can't play Belcher I play a lot of multiplayer and having a t1 win is kind of lame
But it's a pretty fun deck so far, just tweaking stuff as it gets better Added 1 pact of negation just because I already own one And it's pretty good as to respond to something that the opponent may have if you're doomsdaying to victory
On the original version of this deck, the main budget problem is burning wish which skyrocketed in price and is a core card for this deck.
Has anyone tried with other tutors like plunge into darkness or spoils of the vault? Is the lifeloss too much that you can't use doomsday afterwards? I personally don't think so, since you'll be running 4 copies of DD maindeck but even so it could be problematic.
Hello I'm a combo fan and I want to build a new deck since I have played High tide and BooBerry along with Affinity and White stacks for some time and I need something new in legacy.
So I read this thread now and I am convinced this is a nice deck to play because I like doomsday and combo in general, it is budget and I have most of the cards needed for the deck already.
But I have some questions:
I'm always a bit curious about building the Pile and how I am supposed to put a storm count to 20 with it. Iguess I am doing it with also playing spells before playing doomsday right? And it would be nice if someone could explain some piles and plays around some counters.
The Sideboard pile with Laboratory maniac:
Would it be bad to include Brainstorm in it, to just answer a removal in response to a draw of the last card with a brainstorm and still win?
Or would Peer Through Depths be a good inclusion or is it too expensive? I mean It digs 5 Deep, finds Everithing in the deck except lands and in some rare cases can rearange the Doomsday pile...
@Heskatet
Yeah, basically you'll need to cast like 3-4 spells before Doomsday (usually draw and mana spells) in order to achieve 10 storm with Tendrills.
The basic piles are very simple, the hard part is adapting them to your need depending on the situation.
About playing around counters: well, Doomsday don't play around it, since the opponent will just counter it instead of the pile. That's why we need to run protections like Duress, Cabal Therapy and Silence to ensure that we can cast Doomsday for the win.
Ok fair enough So protection is the way total deal with counters. And the Basic piles seem total be easy to me so maybe you fast duress Mana Mana DD probe Intoleranz tue Pile for tue ein. What about peer through depths?
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I like it, since it helps a lot finding Doomsday but I don't know if it's viable since it needs U, which this deck suffers a lot to make.
It's a different matter with Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain though, because you can cast it via Ancient Spring. To be able to get 1U you'd need to wait till turn 3+ or use some valuable filter like Manamorphose/Lotus Petal, which would be a huge drawback if you're not going to combo on the same turn.
The main problem with DD is that you need to be sure that you'll win when you go off. If you don't have DD in hand or some way to tutor for it then you shouldn't go off. That's why DD decks never fizzles and is also why people avoid it, sometimes you simply cannot find a way out and it can be very frustating.
Well the thing is I'd try to stick with the list posted on the top of page 6 and staying U/B. So the thing is that having 1 U is very likely to be online turn 2. I wonder if Peer through Depths is a better inclusion than Preordain? Another Question is, if we face hatebears like thalia or Gaddock teeg, shouldn't be Snap a good answer? Also isn't this new Born of the Gods Hatebear a huge problem for this deck? ( http://mythicspoiler.com/bng/cards/spiritofthelabyrinth.html )
I'll get the deck as soon as possible and start playing and practising.
I think with this hatebear every non Death and Taxes deck will suffer a lot. Actually it's a great anti-blue card.
For protecting against hate we have Chain of Vapor that is simply awesome. Cast it on your Lotus Petal to get +1 storm, then sac a land to bounce the hate.
I see, the U/B version of this deck could use some Peer Through Dephts (although Lim Dul's Vault does it better). The main problem I see with U/B is how you're going to make U when going off, since you will generate lots of BBB and none U.
Well yes lim duls vault does it better than PtD but doesn't it help to find DD better than preordain does?during the combo, PtD isn't needed anyways so generating U for meditate for example is still going to work
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
What I'm worried is how you're going to cast 4 spells before DD (to achieve 10 storm). The conditions are very harsh, because you'll also need 2UBBB (Meditate + Doomsday) AND a Gitaxian Probe on hand, or 2UUBBB with preordain/ponder on hand. With sacland each land generates 2 mana and on DDFT they rely on Sensei's Divining Top to get a free draw, so they do not suffer from this.
If you have only PtD on your hand, then you'll need 3UUBBB to go off with DD, which is VERY hard to achieve, since you won't have tresh for Cabal Ritual.
But I really don't know if it's possible to generate enough mana to cast DD. DDFT plays LED, that generates UUU or BBB for 0, while dark ritual only generates BB and cabal only B, so in order to get 6 mana will require a lot of preparation.
I think it is still possible to get the threshold before casting dd it's hard but not that impossible. I think playing DD before T4 will be too risky, except you have the perfect hand, but that is relatively improbable.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Hey, Glad to see activity here. I haven't looked at this in awhile but maybe i can answer some questions.
Top: Would still be amazing, if you have it put it in. The recurrable shuffling of top 3 is awesome, and gives you another 4 options of a "free" cantrip for the top of the pile. Even without the fetchlands it would be worthwhile.
Burning Wish: $$$$$$ so we started down a new path. LDV seemed(to me) to be the most consistent way to find DD. If you've played DDFt or any combo, we are HEAVILY reliant on DD, so without cantrips + top + fetches to find our copies (in DDFT you have 6 3x Burning wish 3x DD), here we only have 4, I wouldn't want to risk the consistency of only cantrips. need something more concrete.
Getting storm count. You rarely need to hit someoen for 20 pts. Oftentimes it's only 16-18. Which means you need less storm than you were thinking. I think in the first post i list some lines of play for generating storm. (hint: there's a lot).
Using the Fetchland Shell. Doomsday is fundamentally different. And you find you cant hit storm the same way. Without protection you basically forfeit if they counter after doomsday. Anything less than 4x probe will be difficult to flip the top of the pile. Rite of flame wont help you reach BBB2U in any way. DD is a little slower but more consistent, so having sac lands was found to be too much of a gamble.
Plunge, spoils, etc, life loss is extremely important. Having less than 4 is problematic, many games come down to your opponent being able to bolt you after DD. Knocking your self below 10 then is detrimental.
I think this covers a lot.... if i missed anything let me know.
Manabase: i only have Gemstone Mine (from my dredge deck: 4 Gemstone Mine and 4 City of Brass). I don't know if City of Brass would be better than Shocklands in this deck.
Side: yes..i forgot about grave hate. I have Surgical Extraction, Tormod's Crypt, etc. I'm not worried about the side deck, it depends very much on my meta.
About Laboratory Maniac and Chromatic Star: these two cards are in place of Tendrils ? Or i keep Tendrils and add this two ?
I'm worried about the deck, because as you know, the prices of the cards here in Brazil are absurd !
Cards i have to buy:
1 Meditate
1 Infernal Contract
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Rain of Filth
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Doomsday
4 Lim-Dûl's Vault
Plus manabase, if Gemstone Mine and City of Brass don't serve. Currently, I will not use the deck in tournament, but in the future who knows. After I've practiced well with DDFT, and my budget allow, i can buy the more expensive cards.
I Need not be exactly this list. I need a budget list to start, because i never played with DDFT and dont know what card is better then other (in budget).
Tanks !
City is going to be painful, as are shocks, that's why we are sticking to 2 colors. You can't afford to take damage every turn, and you need the multi colored lands to insure you can brainstorm/ponder/etc turns 1-3 and also have the black mana as much as possible turns 2-4. But if you take 5 from your land + x from your opponent, you may not have enough life for DD + IC. Or even to DD and avoid dying to other shenanigans like lightning bolt/etc.
You want it in addition. Although personally SI/Emrakul is still another viable option but these give you a gameplan against heavy control when you probably wont get the chance to cast 10 spells but dont want to be dead in the water holding onto DD. this way you can force DD through (early usually) and worst case draw your pile the hard way and then win with a "smaller" combo.
Also, there really is no reason for 12x targeted discard. I would find something with more targeted hate. Graveyard, dread of night, etc... get more focused proactive hate in those spots.
Also, i havent really played recently, but does anyone have opinions on 4x Lim-dul's vault.... i feel like 3 lim dul and 3 preordain might be better. Lim-dul in excess isn't helpful and cantrips are so valuable for drawing into the pile. Just a thought.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
I've been looking for a combo deck lately and I was wondering if I could try Doomsday.
Would Amulet of Vigor be viable in this deck? It does make all tapped lands come in untapped.
And would progenitus be a good replacement for emrakul if you're planning to run the shelldock isle combo on sideboard?
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Amulet isn't worth it. As it doesn't really contribute much to the deck especially as we start to move away from sac lands.
If you're looking for it towards the SI combo may as well run Twiddle i think it is.... As it has multiple uses (even then fairly useless).
Proggy doesn't work as well as Emmy because without the annihilator effect you cannot guarantee the victory in t minus 2 turns. You run into the issue where they get Batterskull and life steal themselves up until you deck yourself. They find Wrath of God, Perish , etc or swing with enough creatures to kill you as you are most likely at < 5 life post doomsday.
The clock is there but without the annihilator trigger you are in a much much much riskier situation.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
More importantly, Emrakul can't be countered. If you cast Doomsday and put Progenitus under Shelldock Isle, you can flat-out lose to a counterspell on Progenitus.
and is overmaster good in the deck? It does stop counterspells. And in desperate situation, acts as a cantrip.
wild cantor looks pretty good too, chump blocks, adds mana, etc, is he any good?
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
These questions suggest you should read through the entire thread and proxy up the deck first as you don't have a very clear understanding of how the deck operates and fundamental theory.
Or if you are going to suggest stuff take the time to argue as to why they would be good suggestions as opposed to just receiving an onslaught of noes.
EDIT: sorry, i didn't have time for this before....
Let me break this down for sake of argument:
conjurer's bauble : Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith, Sensei's Divining Top, All do what this card can and more. The best option's including SDT and Probe, but in the budget forum top becomes a concern. Top does what the bobble does in addition to letting you set up for following turns. Getting to see 3 new cards a turn, of course in the non-budget versions fetch lands make this 10x more effective as you can repeatedly see new cards.....
overmaster: The only card we want to protect like this is doomsday and burning wish, but cards like duress and silence do this and more... Overmaste is reactive, however the other cards are pro-active. These cards force you to deal with those, ignoring the more importan cards. WIth these cards they must waste counterspells and resources to deal with less than lethal cards, but also give you as the combo player a lot of information.
wild cantor looks pretty good too, chump blocks, adds mana, etc, is he any good?
Creatures in any form defeat a major upside of combo. Not playing creatures can make 4+ cards of any deck absolutely useless.
Playing Swords To Plowshares, Innocent blood, Lightning Bolt, etc....becomes 4+ worthless cards in the deck. Every wasted card becomes an advantage for us to win on. As game 1, none of our cards are useless. Things like duress, silence, orim's chant, cabal therapy, etc.. can be game winners in any match. But here we go back to the idea of how much we need to know about their deck and what in their deck is prohibitive to us winning. because many of our cards are resources to us winning making their cards useless becomes that much more important. The downside to being faster than other decks, is many of our cards are worthless by themselves.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
I just kind of felt like the discard spells are useless IMO. they don't really help you storm, and they can be a dead draw late game, so I was just thinking of ways to replace them
But they are proactive ways of dealing with problems, so it's ok
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
They are the most important cards late game. The biggest fear of playing combo are not knowing what your opponent can do to win and combo spells.
The nice thing with doomsday, is that when you can win, you know 100% you win. There's no chance. So making sure you know what your opponent has or removing the problems are absolutely key.
If we wanted a faster deck, we'd be playing budget belcher, in which many of those suggestions would probably fit.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU
or all spells, all spells can be cheap and wins quickly too
I just needed a fun, challenging deck that doesn't win t1, which is why I can't play Belcher I play a lot of multiplayer and having a t1 win is kind of lame
But it's a pretty fun deck so far, just tweaking stuff as it gets better Added 1 pact of negation just because I already own one And it's pretty good as to respond to something that the opponent may have if you're doomsdaying to victory
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Has anyone tried with other tutors like plunge into darkness or spoils of the vault? Is the lifeloss too much that you can't use doomsday afterwards? I personally don't think so, since you'll be running 4 copies of DD maindeck but even so it could be problematic.
Any thoughts?
So I read this thread now and I am convinced this is a nice deck to play because I like doomsday and combo in general, it is budget and I have most of the cards needed for the deck already.
But I have some questions:
I'm always a bit curious about building the Pile and how I am supposed to put a storm count to 20 with it. Iguess I am doing it with also playing spells before playing doomsday right? And it would be nice if someone could explain some piles and plays around some counters.
The Sideboard pile with Laboratory maniac:
Would it be bad to include Brainstorm in it, to just answer a removal in response to a draw of the last card with a brainstorm and still win?
Or would Peer Through Depths be a good inclusion or is it too expensive? I mean It digs 5 Deep, finds Everithing in the deck except lands and in some rare cases can rearange the Doomsday pile...
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Yeah, basically you'll need to cast like 3-4 spells before Doomsday (usually draw and mana spells) in order to achieve 10 storm with Tendrills.
The most common piles will go like Meditate/Infernal Contract, mana/anti-hate, mana, mana, Tendrills of Agony. Just draw Meditate/Infernal Contract with Gitaxian Probe or Manamorphose then draw the rest of the pile.
However, if you go for the Ideas Unbound route, you could do something like Manamorphose, Ideas Unbound, mana/anti-hate, mana, Tendrills of Agony if you don't have UU or Ideas Unbound, mana/anti-hate, mana, cantrip, Tendrills of Agony.
The basic piles are very simple, the hard part is adapting them to your need depending on the situation.
About playing around counters: well, Doomsday don't play around it, since the opponent will just counter it instead of the pile. That's why we need to run protections like Duress, Cabal Therapy and Silence to ensure that we can cast Doomsday for the win.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
It's a different matter with Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain though, because you can cast it via Ancient Spring. To be able to get 1U you'd need to wait till turn 3+ or use some valuable filter like Manamorphose/Lotus Petal, which would be a huge drawback if you're not going to combo on the same turn.
The main problem with DD is that you need to be sure that you'll win when you go off. If you don't have DD in hand or some way to tutor for it then you shouldn't go off. That's why DD decks never fizzles and is also why people avoid it, sometimes you simply cannot find a way out and it can be very frustating.
I'll get the deck as soon as possible and start playing and practising.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
For protecting against hate we have Chain of Vapor that is simply awesome. Cast it on your Lotus Petal to get +1 storm, then sac a land to bounce the hate.
I see, the U/B version of this deck could use some Peer Through Dephts (although Lim Dul's Vault does it better). The main problem I see with U/B is how you're going to make U when going off, since you will generate lots of BBB and none U.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
If you have only PtD on your hand, then you'll need 3UUBBB to go off with DD, which is VERY hard to achieve, since you won't have tresh for Cabal Ritual.
I'm thinking on a build like this
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Doomsday
3x Duress
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Infernal Contract
4x Ponder
4x Preordain
1x Tendrils of Agony
4x Cabal Ritual
1x Chain of Vapor
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Meditate
1x Rain of Filth
3x Island
4x River of Tears
6x Swamp
4x Tainted Isle
Artifact (4)
4x Lotus Petal
But I really don't know if it's possible to generate enough mana to cast DD. DDFT plays LED, that generates UUU or BBB for 0, while dark ritual only generates BB and cabal only B, so in order to get 6 mana will require a lot of preparation.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Something like
4x Lotus Petal
2x Chromatic Star
Instant:
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Dark Ritual
4x Manamorphose
1x Chain of Vapor
3x Ideas Unbound
4x Silence
4x Doomsday
3x Gitaxian Probe
4x Night's Whisper
4x Preordain
4x Rite of Flame
1x Tendrils of agony
4x Ancient Spring
4x Geothermal Crevice
4x Sulfur Vent
2x Gemstone Mine
Top: Would still be amazing, if you have it put it in. The recurrable shuffling of top 3 is awesome, and gives you another 4 options of a "free" cantrip for the top of the pile. Even without the fetchlands it would be worthwhile.
Burning Wish: $$$$$$ so we started down a new path. LDV seemed(to me) to be the most consistent way to find DD. If you've played DDFt or any combo, we are HEAVILY reliant on DD, so without cantrips + top + fetches to find our copies (in DDFT you have 6 3x Burning wish 3x DD), here we only have 4, I wouldn't want to risk the consistency of only cantrips. need something more concrete.
Getting storm count. You rarely need to hit someoen for 20 pts. Oftentimes it's only 16-18. Which means you need less storm than you were thinking. I think in the first post i list some lines of play for generating storm. (hint: there's a lot).
Using the Fetchland Shell. Doomsday is fundamentally different. And you find you cant hit storm the same way. Without protection you basically forfeit if they counter after doomsday. Anything less than 4x probe will be difficult to flip the top of the pile. Rite of flame wont help you reach BBB2U in any way. DD is a little slower but more consistent, so having sac lands was found to be too much of a gamble.
Plunge, spoils, etc, life loss is extremely important. Having less than 4 is problematic, many games come down to your opponent being able to bolt you after DD. Knocking your self below 10 then is detrimental.
I think this covers a lot.... if i missed anything let me know.
UBRWDDFTWBRU
UBRWGTESGWRBU