Hey all. It's been awhile since I've come up with an interesting idea for a deck but I think I've hit on something that's pretty cool and could have potential. I'm one of those players that likes to pilot something a little different from what everyone else is. If you're that kind of player, this might pique your interest.
Most of the time, the crazy ideas I come up with don't really end up being that great and so I don't bother posting them but I think this may have some competitive potential.
The deck works by creating a soft-lock with two lands, Glacial Chasm and Unstable Frontier. Glacial Chasm is a great card if you can get around its drawbacks which are admittedly steep. Thanks to Unstable Frontier we are able to do just that. The trick is to turn Glacial Chasm into a basic land on your turn so you don't have to pay the brutal upkeep cost. This allows you to attack with creatures on your turn and also use the Glacial Chasm as a forest.
The rest of the deck basically revolves around getting these two lands into play as soon as possible. This deck very, very consistently gets both the Chasm and Unstable Frontier out by turn three. Against most decks, this will slow the game down at least somewhat. Some decks might not even have an answer for these two cards mainboard.
The 4x Noxious Revival and 4x Reclaim help you keep Glacial Chasm on the field in case your up against a deck with something like Wasteland, and they also bring back your sacrificed forests. I also like the synergy between these cards and Ancient Stirrings as I have often played Ancient Stirrings then dropped Noxious Revival to put it up on the top of my library for use the next turn.
The kill condition for this deck is still a work in progress. Right now I've shoehorned in Blinkmoth Nexus and some cheap power buffs like Might of Old Krosa and Vines of Vastwood. Overall, I'm not impressed with these cards as a wincon but for now they fill up the left over space.
Some obvious drawbacks to the deck are the number of lands that are sacrificed to Glacial Chasm and Crop Rotation which necessitates that the kill condition be fairly inexpensive, IMHO. Also, Eldrazi, life loss, mill and burn can be issues but I'm thinking the SB may alleviate any struggles with decks that use these.
I will write a better primer later but I just wanted to get this out here now because I'm excited about the idea and think there's some potential here! And it's fairly budget priced which is always good in my books. Suggestions and ideas are extremely welcome, whether they are budget or not.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
Well, I'm going to suggest life from the loam and some cycling lands, particularly tranquil thicket. This gives you a draw engine of your own. That said, I would also recommend wasteland if you can get them. IF you can, then a crucible of worlds lock is also possible and then you have the beginnings of a budget lands deck.
Some way to play multiple lands in a turn would be useful. Exploration is considered the best, but you could also play rites of flourishing or asuza, lost but seeking, or even others, such as gaea's touch. With a glacial chasm on the board, burn is never an issue. that alone should make burn an excellent match up.
On the other hand, tendrils of agony could cramp your style. Maybe zuran orb?
If you're going to run effects to return cards to your hand, then consider the best of the best...IE regrowth, eternal witness, or nostalgic dreams (think life from the loam shenanigans)
possible sulfuric vortex win con with a red splash. If this combo actually works(been a long time since I looked at rulings for cumulative upkeep) then you should be able to stack the triggers so that this damage would be prevented. Maybe sideboard in 1-2 Dark Depths for game 2 transformative win con, and just pay 3 per turn until you can create dude and smash. Would be funny, and would really only require 1 or 2 sideboard slots with all the land tutors you run.
It is 2 am here, so maybe this is just the ramblings of a madman!!
With your original list, I think primal bellow might be better than might of old krosa or even invigorate if you are on the infect plan. I haven't done any testing with it, but It looks like a slow build to one or two brutal alpha strikes. Would warrant testing maybe.
Wait just a minute here. I hate to be a killjoy, but unless I'm very much mistaken, your combo simply does not work.
At the beginning of your upkeep, the trigger from Glacial Chasm goes onto the stack before any player receives priority. Then, you as active player get priority, and activate Unstable frontier, choosing "Forest". That ability resolves, and Glacial Chasm becomes a Forest with no rules text other than "{T}: Add G to your mana pool." The cumulative upkeep trigger from Glacial Chasm is still on the stack, nothing has occurred which would affect that. You then put an age counter on it and sac it unless you pay the life. Nothing in the rules text would care that the land no longer has cumulative upkeep, since the sacrifice clause is part of the triggered ability.
You still have to pay the life or sac the land, even if the land in question is now a (non-basic) Forest.
For convenience, I've quoted the relevant rules on cumulative upkeep below:
Quote from Comp Rules »
702.21a Cumulative upkeep is a triggered ability that imposes an increasing cost on a permanent. “Cumulative upkeep [cost]” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent is on the battlefield, put an age counter on this permanent. Then you may pay [cost] for each age counter on it. If you don’t, sacrifice it.” If [cost] has choices associated with it, each choice is made separately for each age counter, then either the entire set of costs is paid, or none of them is paid. Partial payments aren’t allowed.
I believe that you could turn the chasm into a forest or similar during your opponents clean up step but after their end of turn step triggers and still be ok.
Otherwise, the already aforementioned crucible of worlds or life from the loam take care of it no issues.
I believe that you could turn the chasm into a forest or similar during your opponents clean up step but after their end of turn step triggers and still be ok.
Otherwise, the already aforementioned crucible of worlds or life from the loam take care of it no issues.
Weltkrieg, I hope you are right but I'm inclined to think that this doesn't work either. If I'm not mistaken, no player has priority during the clean up step or post end of turn triggers.
Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam are great alternatives until taking into consideration that Glacial Chasm requires a land to be sacrificed every time it comes into play. This then necessitates running something like Exploration to play additional lands each turn. And while I'm not saying that wouldn't work, it does take more effort to set up and it is more easily disrupted. A little bit of artifact/enchantment hate would mess things up, at least somewhat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
I believe that you could turn the chasm into a forest or similar during your opponents clean up step but after their end of turn step triggers and still be ok.
Nope, this doesn't work. Players don't receive priority during the cleanup step under normal conditions (they do if a spell is cast via madness after being discarded or something like that), so there is no window during which the ability from Unstable Frontier could be active during the beginning of the upkeep step, since the turn always end with a cleanup step during which no player receives priority, however many cleanup steps that requires.
Unstable Frontier cannot be made to work in this deck, no matter what convoluted tricks you try to pull.
And yes, when I first saw this deck I had the horrible image of your opponent calling me over during round one of a big Legacy tournament, and then having to essentially ruin your entire deck because the combo didn't work. Glad you're taking it in stride.
That makes sense. I didn't bother to see the "until end of turn" part where it's not end of turn trigger. Poor wording on my part. that said, you could conceivably run something like hex parasite or clockspinning. However, those would change the nature of the deck dramatically, and make it into a slightly different two card combo. I was hoping there was an artifact or similar that would allow you to phase out a permanent/land on command. This would work, but only taniwha and shimmer from blue could accomplish this. I don't think it would work too well. Shimmer wouldn't actually work on glacial chasm, as it doesn't have a subtype.
I haven't posted another list yet because I really haven't put anything satisfactory together. I tried a couple ideas but wasn't impressed. Once I figure out something that actually works half-way decent, I'll post a list. Has anyone else playtested a list that has some potential and might be a good place to start?
Hex Parasite and Clockspinning could conceivably pull off the lock, which I really like. Although, it is unfortunate that Clockspinning's buyback cost is so high. This would also require definite changes to the deck to run blue and black. However, it's difficult to drop green because green has all the best land tutoring. I suppose if you were running blue, you could use Tolaria West to tutor for Glacial Chasm. Blue also has great card draw.
I thought about Sundial of the Infinite awhile back and that's the idea I find most intriguing. It's inexpensive and it fits in with any color. However, I wonder if the benefit you get from Glacial Chasm is really worth skipping your turn. It almost feels like it's trying to be a bad Stasis deck at that point, except, your opponents are still able to do stuff like combo off or nuke the Sundial or Chasm and leave you boned. If there were some way to still protect the combo, that would be ideal.
abysz, hate to disappoint but we found out that the combo between Glacial Chasm and Unstable Frontier does not legally work. Naldor explains why in a previous post if you want to see why it doesn't work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
'Capsize' also gets around the upkeep cost nicely. It's 3 additional mana for the buyback cost....but hey, your opponents can't do much, so you've got all the time you need to get your land out. Thanks for the suggestions everybody!
Your Idea is very creative! It is intresting in how it bends the rules (preventing all damage) and how it tries to take advantage of that. The major drawback of the deck is simply the cumulative upkeep cost. The math leaves you three to four turns to live.
The best way to play it is to have glacial chasm and Solemnity on the feild. A close look shows that cumulative upkeep uses counters: no counters, no cumulative upkeep. Then make Solemnity hexproof, maybe splash in an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and there you have an almost unkillable deck. Defeat them however.
Agreed. Since the Unstable Frontier and Glacial Chasm combo does not work as I originally thought, I think probably the best option here would be to build a variation of Enchantress that uses Solemnity and the Chasm if you want a similar effect.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Force of Will is kind of like duct tape. Stick it in a deck and it will fix all your problems.
What would a game of Magic between Harry Potter and Voldemort look like?
Most of the time, the crazy ideas I come up with don't really end up being that great and so I don't bother posting them but I think this may have some competitive potential.
I call it Glacial Stalls and here's the list:
4x Crop Rotation
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Noxious Revival
4x Reclaim
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Expedition Map
Land (28)
16x Forest
4x Glacial Chasm
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Unstable Frontier
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Sylvan Scrying
The deck works by creating a soft-lock with two lands, Glacial Chasm and Unstable Frontier. Glacial Chasm is a great card if you can get around its drawbacks which are admittedly steep. Thanks to Unstable Frontier we are able to do just that. The trick is to turn Glacial Chasm into a basic land on your turn so you don't have to pay the brutal upkeep cost. This allows you to attack with creatures on your turn and also use the Glacial Chasm as a forest.
The rest of the deck basically revolves around getting these two lands into play as soon as possible. This deck very, very consistently gets both the Chasm and Unstable Frontier out by turn three. Against most decks, this will slow the game down at least somewhat. Some decks might not even have an answer for these two cards mainboard.
The 4x Noxious Revival and 4x Reclaim help you keep Glacial Chasm on the field in case your up against a deck with something like Wasteland, and they also bring back your sacrificed forests. I also like the synergy between these cards and Ancient Stirrings as I have often played Ancient Stirrings then dropped Noxious Revival to put it up on the top of my library for use the next turn.
The kill condition for this deck is still a work in progress. Right now I've shoehorned in Blinkmoth Nexus and some cheap power buffs like Might of Old Krosa and Vines of Vastwood. Overall, I'm not impressed with these cards as a wincon but for now they fill up the left over space.
Some obvious drawbacks to the deck are the number of lands that are sacrificed to Glacial Chasm and Crop Rotation which necessitates that the kill condition be fairly inexpensive, IMHO. Also, Eldrazi, life loss, mill and burn can be issues but I'm thinking the SB may alleviate any struggles with decks that use these.
I will write a better primer later but I just wanted to get this out here now because I'm excited about the idea and think there's some potential here! And it's fairly budget priced which is always good in my books. Suggestions and ideas are extremely welcome, whether they are budget or not.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Some way to play multiple lands in a turn would be useful. Exploration is considered the best, but you could also play rites of flourishing or asuza, lost but seeking, or even others, such as gaea's touch. With a glacial chasm on the board, burn is never an issue. that alone should make burn an excellent match up.
On the other hand, tendrils of agony could cramp your style. Maybe zuran orb?
Ancient stirrings, a card I love to see! How about all is dust, or maybe ratchet bomb, powder keg, nevinrryal's disk, etc.? Artifacts and lands are now your friends. You could even consider living wish for something out of the board.
If you're going to run effects to return cards to your hand, then consider the best of the best...IE regrowth, eternal witness, or nostalgic dreams (think life from the loam shenanigans)
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Crucible of Worlds seems to be a big winner in this deck.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Incidentally, dungrove elder would make an interesting win condition.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
That's a unique deck that you have there.
Since you have plenty of forest for producing G, I would suggest Skyshroud Blessing.
It can protect important lands and draws an extra card as well.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
It is 2 am here, so maybe this is just the ramblings of a madman!!
With your original list, I think primal bellow might be better than might of old krosa or even invigorate if you are on the infect plan. I haven't done any testing with it, but It looks like a slow build to one or two brutal alpha strikes. Would warrant testing maybe.
At the beginning of your upkeep, the trigger from Glacial Chasm goes onto the stack before any player receives priority. Then, you as active player get priority, and activate Unstable frontier, choosing "Forest". That ability resolves, and Glacial Chasm becomes a Forest with no rules text other than "{T}: Add G to your mana pool." The cumulative upkeep trigger from Glacial Chasm is still on the stack, nothing has occurred which would affect that. You then put an age counter on it and sac it unless you pay the life. Nothing in the rules text would care that the land no longer has cumulative upkeep, since the sacrifice clause is part of the triggered ability.
You still have to pay the life or sac the land, even if the land in question is now a (non-basic) Forest.
For convenience, I've quoted the relevant rules on cumulative upkeep below:
Otherwise, the already aforementioned crucible of worlds or life from the loam take care of it no issues.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
That is a nice combo you have there.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Weltkrieg, I hope you are right but I'm inclined to think that this doesn't work either. If I'm not mistaken, no player has priority during the clean up step or post end of turn triggers.
Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam are great alternatives until taking into consideration that Glacial Chasm requires a land to be sacrificed every time it comes into play. This then necessitates running something like Exploration to play additional lands each turn. And while I'm not saying that wouldn't work, it does take more effort to set up and it is more easily disrupted. A little bit of artifact/enchantment hate would mess things up, at least somewhat.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Unstable Frontier cannot be made to work in this deck, no matter what convoluted tricks you try to pull.
And yes, when I first saw this deck I had the horrible image of your opponent calling me over during round one of a big Legacy tournament, and then having to essentially ruin your entire deck because the combo didn't work. Glad you're taking it in stride.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Hex Parasite and Clockspinning could conceivably pull off the lock, which I really like. Although, it is unfortunate that Clockspinning's buyback cost is so high. This would also require definite changes to the deck to run blue and black. However, it's difficult to drop green because green has all the best land tutoring. I suppose if you were running blue, you could use Tolaria West to tutor for Glacial Chasm. Blue also has great card draw.
I thought about Sundial of the Infinite awhile back and that's the idea I find most intriguing. It's inexpensive and it fits in with any color. However, I wonder if the benefit you get from Glacial Chasm is really worth skipping your turn. It almost feels like it's trying to be a bad Stasis deck at that point, except, your opponents are still able to do stuff like combo off or nuke the Sundial or Chasm and leave you boned. If there were some way to still protect the combo, that would be ideal.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB
Your Idea is very creative! It is intresting in how it bends the rules (preventing all damage) and how it tries to take advantage of that. The major drawback of the deck is simply the cumulative upkeep cost. The math leaves you three to four turns to live.
The best way to play it is to have glacial chasm and Solemnity on the feild. A close look shows that cumulative upkeep uses counters: no counters, no cumulative upkeep. Then make Solemnity hexproof, maybe splash in an Eidolon of Rhetoric, and there you have an almost unkillable deck. Defeat them however.
BGSpanish InquisitionGB
GFood Chain ElvesG
WUAngry BirdsUW
BUThe Four Horsemen (RIP)UB