I hear frequently that the combination of fetches and duals is one of the pillars of legacy, but I don't really know what that means. Why is the combination of Duals and fetchlands in its current form so vital to the format [as opposed to being vital to current meta decks] that any suggestion of changing it is considered heresy?
Fetches can be used to grab whatever dual land you need or basics in case of blood moon / back to basics / wasteland.
theres a reason why fetchlands are the most played lands in the format
That is like, the complete opposite of an answer to the question. I know why they are amazing. I'm asking why they can't be banned. In other words, why is their presence in the format untouchable.
If you banned the fetchlands, players would have to play more duals. This increases the costs of manabases and makes blood moon / back to basics even better. It would certainly shake up the format quite a bit.
If you banned the dual lands, that would greatly reduce the cost of manabases and it would be interesting. But people who own duals would be very upset. I can't see it happening because they have been around since the beginning and they are so iconic.
Fetches can be used to grab whatever dual land you need or basics in case of blood moon / back to basics / wasteland.
theres a reason why fetchlands are the most played lands in the format
That is like, the complete opposite of an answer to the question. I know why they are amazing. I'm asking why they can't be banned. In other words, why is their presence in the format untouchable.
Cost of investment. People bought them on the fair assessment that they would never need to buy again. Helps swallow the $1600 price tag for a set of Volcanic Islands. There would be a massive player revolt if they did, and Legacy's card supply and high barrier to entry ensures the format may not survive that move.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
If you banned the fetchlands, players would have to play more duals. This increases the costs of manabases and makes blood moon / back to basics even better. It would certainly shake up the format quite a bit.
If you banned the dual lands, that would greatly reduce the cost of manabases and it would be interesting. But people who own duals would be very upset. I can't see it happening because they have been around since the beginning and they are so iconic.
I think banning Dual lands would be a great step into making Legacy big again.
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
If you banned the fetchlands, players would have to play more duals. This increases the costs of manabases and makes blood moon / back to basics even better. It would certainly shake up the format quite a bit.
If you banned the dual lands, that would greatly reduce the cost of manabases and it would be interesting. But people who own duals would be very upset. I can't see it happening because they have been around since the beginning and they are so iconic.
I think banning Dual lands would be a great step into making Legacy big again.
Well there are alot of decks that just don't care about duals. Tier 1 decks like DnT, Eldrazi, elves etc or 1.5/2 decks like Burn and Omnitell. I don't think there's a reason to punish greedy manabases even further when Dragon Stompy is a now considered a Teir 1 deck (another deck that doesn't care about duals). There are already many good options for legacy players who don't want to drop thousands in dual mana.
If fact if duals gets banned dual reliant decks will get pushed out of the format (esp Storm variants) when you have to dome yourself with shocks and have a lopsided Burn matchup.
Banning duals would be very interesting, but they won't do this because they are not really that interested in managing the legacy format. Top was the last card banned and that was only because it interfered with tournaments causing them to go to time each round.
I feel that having fetches plus duals (not having to pay 2 life to have them etb untapped like shocks) is one of the sweet parts about legacy, in addition to being able to play everything. I guess banning duals or fetches would be interesting but I dunno how that would go over
The whole point of legacy is playing with old cards and design elements that WOTC wouldn't touch with a thirty foot pole in 2018. There are half a dozen sanctioned constructed formats to pick based on your preferences, including budget constraints.
I don't see any reason to ban fetches/duals from a gameplay standpoint.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
If you banned the fetchlands, players would have to play more duals. This increases the costs of manabases and makes blood moon / back to basics even better. It would certainly shake up the format quite a bit.
If you banned the dual lands, that would greatly reduce the cost of manabases and it would be interesting. But people who own duals would be very upset. I can't see it happening because they have been around since the beginning and they are so iconic.
They don't really have to ban the original duals because they are so old now that they are becoming museum pieces. Some people have them, but the majority of players I've played legacy with are newer folks or returning ones that lost or sold their older cards a long time ago. I'm stepping into Legacy now (just got a playset of Wasteland from tempest since I love the art from that set), but I think true dual lands will be forever out of reach.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I agree that duals are expensive.
But I don't get the want to further add variance in a game that already has plenty.
The fetch/dual combo allows for efficiency and a wide range of deck building options.
The last thing one should be worried about is being able to cast spells in a format that already punishes greedy manabases ...
I enjoy games where both players get to really play Magic.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
theres a reason why fetchlands are the most played lands in the format
That is like, the complete opposite of an answer to the question. I know why they are amazing. I'm asking why they can't be banned. In other words, why is their presence in the format untouchable.
If you banned the dual lands, that would greatly reduce the cost of manabases and it would be interesting. But people who own duals would be very upset. I can't see it happening because they have been around since the beginning and they are so iconic.
Cost of investment. People bought them on the fair assessment that they would never need to buy again. Helps swallow the $1600 price tag for a set of Volcanic Islands. There would be a massive player revolt if they did, and Legacy's card supply and high barrier to entry ensures the format may not survive that move.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I think banning Dual lands would be a great step into making Legacy big again.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Well there are alot of decks that just don't care about duals. Tier 1 decks like DnT, Eldrazi, elves etc or 1.5/2 decks like Burn and Omnitell. I don't think there's a reason to punish greedy manabases even further when Dragon Stompy is a now considered a Teir 1 deck (another deck that doesn't care about duals). There are already many good options for legacy players who don't want to drop thousands in dual mana.
If fact if duals gets banned dual reliant decks will get pushed out of the format (esp Storm variants) when you have to dome yourself with shocks and have a lopsided Burn matchup.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
They don't really have to ban the original duals because they are so old now that they are becoming museum pieces. Some people have them, but the majority of players I've played legacy with are newer folks or returning ones that lost or sold their older cards a long time ago. I'm stepping into Legacy now (just got a playset of Wasteland from tempest since I love the art from that set), but I think true dual lands will be forever out of reach.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
But I don't get the want to further add variance in a game that already has plenty.
The fetch/dual combo allows for efficiency and a wide range of deck building options.
The last thing one should be worried about is being able to cast spells in a format that already punishes greedy manabases ...
I enjoy games where both players get to really play Magic.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant