Im a modern delver player and really want to get into legacy. Im thinking of doing esper stoneblade as I have most of the components needed. I have a full playset of flooded strands, polluted deltas, dazes, stoneforge mystics,vendillion clique, 2 true name nemeses, jitte, batterskull, force of wills on loan from a friend, and a host of other good counterspells. Debating getting a playset of Deathrite shaman
Basically im lacking the true duals which would require me to sell off a good portion of my collection just to acquire.
Is it feasible to do semi competitive lgs legacy tournaments with no true duals or wastelands? Should I consider dropping down to just 2 colors? Are 1 or 2 shock lands a viable substitute? Perhaps opt for 1 or 2 of the cheap true dual like scrubland? Part of me feels like going just basics and fetches may not be so bad as it dodges landhate like wasteland and blood moon but another part knows id have to get them eventually.
It really depends on how willing you are to occasionally lose to your own lands. You can definitely play Legacy with shocks, but unless you're playing combo (which you're not planning on) then the shock damage will add up, especially on three colors.
Fetching basics is fine until you are playing saturated spells or different mana requirements on the same turn. For example, if you need white and black on turns 1 and 2 for Deathrite, Stoneforge, TS, or whatever, but also need an island for Daze and double blue on turn 3 for Clique or True-Name, you will be at a significant disadvantage against non-combo opponents who just want to beat you up with Tarmogoyf or Gurmag.
True, I was hoping that by going the deathrite shaman route, it could potentially smooth out a shaky mana base but I do have to consider the possibilities that I wont open with him or flat out wont have the right mana to cast him all the time.
I can see what you mean by the disadvantages adding up. I haven't put the deck together yet so i havent playtested enough to notice if Im getting landlocked or bringing myself to lethal ranges for other decks. I guess I'd have to put it together and see if everyone else at the tournaments are running true duals.
Yeah, it depends mostly on what everyone else is playing. It is also entirely possible that you could start playing your deck with a lower cost mana base and build it up over time. It might mean that you have to play mostly one color with minor splashes at first, and then add more mana requirements as you upgrade.
Or maybe the people in your meta are all in the same position and you guys can just play shock land Legacy
Here's an update (being careful not to post any decklists at the risk of an infraction)
I eventually trimmed my deck list to just two colors and didn't like much of the combinations I ended up with until this morning. I was happiest after doing test draws for a sort of Death and Taxes/Stoneblade hybrid. It uses aether vial to flick creatures out of the way or bypass them completely with flickerwisp, reflector mage, or mother of runes to ensure that my Jittes and batterskulls are hitting each turn. The sideboard is dedicated primarily to noncreature spell hate when I'm dealing with burn or have very little to actually flick out of the way. I think two colors may be doable for the time being. What's nice is I take the time to decide later if I want to go the bant or the esper deathblade route.
I can give copy of prairie stream a shot. My LGS has one for $3 that I can pick up today. It'll make for a great fetch target. How do you feel about check lands? I have a bulk of check lands from when I started my collection and have one in almost every color combination. I've still got a full playset of glacial fortresses. Does at least one deserve a spot in my deck?
I think that Glacial Fortress and Seachrome Coast are both good budget options. The main downside of them is that they cannot be fetched, but if you're not playing Brainstorm and only two colors then your need to fetch is much lower.
Sounds like you have a pretty good starting setup!
If you're running white and not running fetches, I'd be a jerk and run Leonin Arbiter, Aven Mindcensor, Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter while I'm at it
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Legacy: WRDeath and Taxes UWRMiracles UBTezzerator GTrinity GBWRLoam URLandstill
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Sounds a lot like modern Death and Taxes and I am already running the vials. I suppose not running fetches could also be a viable option should I decide to pack search hate. However, I'm definitely leaning towards keeping at least the Flooded Strands.
Although I'm worried that my current list may have too high a noncreature vs. creature count for a deck that runs Æther Vial(15 noncreature, 25 creatures, 20 lands), leaving out the brainstorms is just too good an opportunity to pass up in Stoneblade. Putting back prematurely drawn equipment with Brainstorm and then shuffling them away with a fetch so I can tutor it up later with Stoneforge Mystic is just an awesome combo. Even better if I Brainstorm into a Stoneforge, put back the equipment and another card I don't need, cast Stoneforge up the again, and then shuffle.
Legacy death and taxes does play stoneforge without brainstorm, but it also relies a lot on wasteland adn rishadan port with mother of runes for protection, if you are going the vial route that is probably more what you want, if you want to stay UW i'd drop the vial and concentrate more on a midrange plan with counterspells
I would agree with this. To really make DnT shine you're going to want the wasteland, port and mother with a high creature count and vial. Splashing blue and adding spells waters the deck down in my opinion and takes away from its focus. Add to that the fact you'll probably also want to pick up 3x Karakas and you might be looking at dropping just as much money anyways to make it optimal when you factor in wastelands, ports and karakas. DnT really needs those cards to function well and keep the tempo advantage against an opponent. Even if you splash blue you'll want most of those cards I think.
I would start with a UW stone blade list honestly and run basics, some filters and maybe a couple of shocks until you can build up your collection and trade/buy in. I'm doing that with Esper at the moment and am waiting until I can snipe duals for good prices or trade for them.
This gives you some long term options too by starting UW and deciding what to splash as you could go either black or red, both of which give some nice options to work with. Do you have any scalding tarns or arid mesas already from modern?
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Basically im lacking the true duals which would require me to sell off a good portion of my collection just to acquire.
Is it feasible to do semi competitive lgs legacy tournaments with no true duals or wastelands? Should I consider dropping down to just 2 colors? Are 1 or 2 shock lands a viable substitute? Perhaps opt for 1 or 2 of the cheap true dual like scrubland? Part of me feels like going just basics and fetches may not be so bad as it dodges landhate like wasteland and blood moon but another part knows id have to get them eventually.
Fetching basics is fine until you are playing saturated spells or different mana requirements on the same turn. For example, if you need white and black on turns 1 and 2 for Deathrite, Stoneforge, TS, or whatever, but also need an island for Daze and double blue on turn 3 for Clique or True-Name, you will be at a significant disadvantage against non-combo opponents who just want to beat you up with Tarmogoyf or Gurmag.
I can see what you mean by the disadvantages adding up. I haven't put the deck together yet so i havent playtested enough to notice if Im getting landlocked or bringing myself to lethal ranges for other decks. I guess I'd have to put it together and see if everyone else at the tournaments are running true duals.
Or maybe the people in your meta are all in the same position and you guys can just play shock land Legacy
I eventually trimmed my deck list to just two colors and didn't like much of the combinations I ended up with until this morning. I was happiest after doing test draws for a sort of Death and Taxes/Stoneblade hybrid. It uses aether vial to flick creatures out of the way or bypass them completely with flickerwisp, reflector mage, or mother of runes to ensure that my Jittes and batterskulls are hitting each turn. The sideboard is dedicated primarily to noncreature spell hate when I'm dealing with burn or have very little to actually flick out of the way. I think two colors may be doable for the time being. What's nice is I take the time to decide later if I want to go the bant or the esper deathblade route.
I can give copy of prairie stream a shot. My LGS has one for $3 that I can pick up today. It'll make for a great fetch target. How do you feel about check lands? I have a bulk of check lands from when I started my collection and have one in almost every color combination. I've still got a full playset of glacial fortresses. Does at least one deserve a spot in my deck?
Sounds like you have a pretty good starting setup!
Modern: WUBValue Titan UMerfolk WGDeath and Taxes
Although I'm worried that my current list may have too high a noncreature vs. creature count for a deck that runs Æther Vial(15 noncreature, 25 creatures, 20 lands), leaving out the brainstorms is just too good an opportunity to pass up in Stoneblade. Putting back prematurely drawn equipment with Brainstorm and then shuffling them away with a fetch so I can tutor it up later with Stoneforge Mystic is just an awesome combo. Even better if I Brainstorm into a Stoneforge, put back the equipment and another card I don't need, cast Stoneforge up the again, and then shuffle.
I would agree with this. To really make DnT shine you're going to want the wasteland, port and mother with a high creature count and vial. Splashing blue and adding spells waters the deck down in my opinion and takes away from its focus. Add to that the fact you'll probably also want to pick up 3x Karakas and you might be looking at dropping just as much money anyways to make it optimal when you factor in wastelands, ports and karakas. DnT really needs those cards to function well and keep the tempo advantage against an opponent. Even if you splash blue you'll want most of those cards I think.
I would start with a UW stone blade list honestly and run basics, some filters and maybe a couple of shocks until you can build up your collection and trade/buy in. I'm doing that with Esper at the moment and am waiting until I can snipe duals for good prices or trade for them.
This gives you some long term options too by starting UW and deciding what to splash as you could go either black or red, both of which give some nice options to work with. Do you have any scalding tarns or arid mesas already from modern?