Basically the idea is to use up spells to destroy stuff and then use everything that's in the graveyard to some advantage.
But, it's susceptible to removal like Swords to Plowshares especially, and, it has early game but falls off very easily if the start of the game doesn't go well. If I get only removal it doesn't do much, if I get only creatures it doesn't do much.
I would just wander through Junk/Jund/Maverick threads to get an idea of the state of BGx in competitive.
The reason things like Goyf, Stoneforge, Bob, and KotR are brutal and used is because they're able to stall the board or generate advantage. They can flip a game on its head by surviving a turn.
Your issue is that you have subpar dudes and a lack of card advantage. The things that you get to use from the grave provide no real advantage. Slitherhead, for example, does what Goyf does except has to die to do it and then have another dude out to benefit. The synergy is just worse than the regular card. Additionally, your low curve is not served well by 24 lands.
IMO, if you're trying to do this I'd go the Nic Fit route. It can be budget friendly and loves to abuse the grave.
I didn't count and it needs refining, but that is something closer to what will work well. CA, ramp, big dudes, recursion, etc..
It's a bit gimmicky, but you can learn the game and keep to a reasonable budget while having an entertaining game.
Yeah I've seen those decks plenty of times, but what I'm looking for is something that relies on taking stuff out of the graveyard, not keeping it in as required by goyf and nimble mongoose and cabal. It's not really meant to be junk or tournament, it's just meant to be an overall competitive deck that has a fair chance against a wide variety of plain random decks for playing with friends and open-play nights. It can't be plain casual because that's just too slow and simple and none of us have any starter decks any more, we've all moved on. Instead the deck has to be more brutal like win-on-turn-3/4 capability, like say if I got lotleth out by turn 2 and discarded 4 slitherheads and used abrupt decay on whatever cheap blockers they had.
The only real problem is the initiation to allow this deck to guarantee it scales into mid-game compared to something that runs goyf and cabal and zenith, there's no built in guarantee of getting the synergy it needs so far, otherwise there's no reason why I wouldn't run the expensive lands like Bayou and Verdant Catacombs. If I had something else that scaled from removing things from the graveyard instead of lotleth troll, something that relied on instants and sorceries that was faster than deathrite shaman I wouldn't need something like slither-head or dead-bridge golaith, I'd have the means to always have something that can scale from destroying creatures.
But, the goal is simple: Let no card in the graveyard go to waste. If I use abrupt decay to destroy a creature, get something out of having those things in the graveyard. One thing I could do is run a more scavenge oriented deck and play like Varolz and Death's Shadow, but that would require me getting that one card out and having it survive removal.
Alright I have a different strategy. Since deathrite shaman is really the only decent g/b card that can deal consistent damage from non-creature stuff in the graveyard, I'm wondering if there's something more threshhold based and still keep scavenger ooze to remove the creatures that are destroyed in an opponents graveyard. Because what I could do is use spells to destroy creatures as well as use sac-lands like wastelands and terramorphic expanse to build it up the graveyard threshhold like with what delver decks do sometimes, but it seems like nimble mongoose is really the only card good for that.
If you want to be taking things out of your graveyard, you should think a bit bigger. Check out the Renanimator thread, to start with.
If you're wanting to go with threshold, Werebear used to be pretty good, but has fallen out of favor recently. It might be good enough for a casual deck though. Knight of the reliquary is great to have around if you're planning on dumping lands into your graveyard.
Also, if you're serious about the Svavenge theme, Buried Alive will work well for you.
The simplest answer that is clearly accurate is that you could improve the list by putting in the 4th Deathrite Shaman. Always run 4 of powerful staples in your list unless they are somehow redundant and can't be in play twice at the same time or have effects that do not stack. In the case of your list swapping the 4th Scavenging Ooze out and the 4th Deathrite Shaman in would improve it.
Well the problem with deathrite shaman is...what if they get out multiple creatures in one turn and...what if there's something with hexproof and...what if there's something that's indestructible and...what if my creature destruction spells get countered...Relying on the painfully slow deathrite shaman is kind of like running a mil deck with 0 creatures. Yeah, you can start milling fast, but you'll lose all your life pretty quickly. With scavenging ooze, the overall strategy is to use stuff in graveyards to get the opponent's life to 0, which, a 10/10 scavenging ooze could do. Only one problem: swords to plowshares / path to exile. That's why nimble mongoose would be decent if I wanted to only use spells in my graveyard and the sac-lands for threshold, but other than that I don't know, the only other cards that really scale from graveyard is a very limited selection of stuff with threshhold, tarmogoyf and I guess spellheart chimera.
Oh, did I Mention the constant burn and force of will from delver decks? How am I going to protect deathrite shaman?
I have been using unnerving evil a lot in my G/B deck as its cheap and effective.One mana and your creature pops back in with a plus one...well worth it. And gives you an extra chance to use whatever creature you dropped the next turn instead of watching it die.One of the more favorite instants for me.
Try this BG Lotleth Troll deck I played back in 2011-ish. It was better back then, but still worth a try. I think this is along the lines of what you are looking for. It can both create pressure early and maintain it in the midgame and gets a lot of value out of cards that end up in the GY.
There are 16 creatures (Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Vengevine, Basking Rootwalla) that you are happy to discard to Wild Mongrel or Lotleth Troll and will still land on the battlefield! Lotleth Troll can get big with little effort.
Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler = very large Carrion Feeder
Bloodghasts + Undiscovered Paradise = recurring Bloodghast each turn
You can Buried Alive for 3 Vengevines (as early as turn 2 off DRS), then play 2 cheap dorks to swing with 3 Vengevines the next turn. Or you can Buried Alive for 3 Bloodghasts then trigger Landfall. Or some mix of Bloodghasts and Gravecrawlers. Lots of options.
Carrion Feeder protects you from annoying removal like Swords to Plowshares or Terminus. You can always sacrifice your guys in response to removal to make sure they end up in the graveyard instead of exile or your library, so that they can be recurred later.
If you topdeck a Carrion Feeder or Lotleth Troll with nothing in hand or play but Gravecrawler & Vengevine in the graveyard, you can cast it and pay B to recur Gravecrawler, also bringing back any number of Vengevines in your graveyard. Similarly, every time you use the Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler combo you bring back all Vengevines from your graveyard (Gravecrawler gets "cast" from the grave). That enables this deck to recover quickly even when its whole army is killed.
Compared to your deck, instead of using slow stuff like Malakir Cullblade / Rot Shambler or scavenging +1/+1 counters, this deck builds fatties through Carrion Feeder + fodder (faster and more efficient) and Lotleth Troll + good stuff to pitch. Deadbridge Goliath (expensive 4-drop 5/5 with 6-cost scavenge) is dropped in favor of Vengevine (4-drop 4/3 haste that is usually free). These changes make the strategy faster and more efficient.
The sideboard is designed to let you tweak slots to have appropriate removal, disruption and card advantage. Against graveyard hate you can board into a more grindy BG deck with disruption and card advantage and take out the heavy graveyard dependant stuff (e.g. -3 Buried Alive -4 Bloodghast -2 Vengevine) into good cards (e.g. +4 Dark Confidant +2 Inquisition +1 Sylvan Library +1 Abrupt Decay +1 Jitte). Opponent is then stuck with blanks (and probably mulling into a suboptimal hand) while you win a fair game by just turning stuff sideways.
As for upgrades, the newer card Zulaport Cutthroat fits in nicely. If going for the lifedrain, you can also run Cabal Therapy instead of Thoughtseize (more sacrificing). Haakon, Stromgald Scourge + Nameless Inversion combo is another option. They pitch well to your discard outlets and give you more options to play things out of the graveyard.
3 Lotleth Troll
1 Guul Draz Assassin
2 Malakir Cullblade
1 Rot Shambler
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Big Game Hunter
3 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Slitherhead
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 Suffer the Past
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Putrefy
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
8 Forest
8 Swamp
Basically the idea is to use up spells to destroy stuff and then use everything that's in the graveyard to some advantage.
But, it's susceptible to removal like Swords to Plowshares especially, and, it has early game but falls off very easily if the start of the game doesn't go well. If I get only removal it doesn't do much, if I get only creatures it doesn't do much.
The reason things like Goyf, Stoneforge, Bob, and KotR are brutal and used is because they're able to stall the board or generate advantage. They can flip a game on its head by surviving a turn.
Your issue is that you have subpar dudes and a lack of card advantage. The things that you get to use from the grave provide no real advantage. Slitherhead, for example, does what Goyf does except has to die to do it and then have another dude out to benefit. The synergy is just worse than the regular card. Additionally, your low curve is not served well by 24 lands.
IMO, if you're trying to do this I'd go the Nic Fit route. It can be budget friendly and loves to abuse the grave.
Example:
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite shaman
4 Bloodghast
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Recurring Nightmare
-22-
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Crop Rotation
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
-21 other lands-
I didn't count and it needs refining, but that is something closer to what will work well. CA, ramp, big dudes, recursion, etc..
It's a bit gimmicky, but you can learn the game and keep to a reasonable budget while having an entertaining game.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
The only real problem is the initiation to allow this deck to guarantee it scales into mid-game compared to something that runs goyf and cabal and zenith, there's no built in guarantee of getting the synergy it needs so far, otherwise there's no reason why I wouldn't run the expensive lands like Bayou and Verdant Catacombs. If I had something else that scaled from removing things from the graveyard instead of lotleth troll, something that relied on instants and sorceries that was faster than deathrite shaman I wouldn't need something like slither-head or dead-bridge golaith, I'd have the means to always have something that can scale from destroying creatures.
But, the goal is simple: Let no card in the graveyard go to waste. If I use abrupt decay to destroy a creature, get something out of having those things in the graveyard. One thing I could do is run a more scavenge oriented deck and play like Varolz and Death's Shadow, but that would require me getting that one card out and having it survive removal.
If you're wanting to go with threshold, Werebear used to be pretty good, but has fallen out of favor recently. It might be good enough for a casual deck though. Knight of the reliquary is great to have around if you're planning on dumping lands into your graveyard.
Also, if you're serious about the Svavenge theme, Buried Alive will work well for you.
Oh, did I Mention the constant burn and force of will from delver decks? How am I going to protect deathrite shaman?
You could also use experiment one and courser of kruphix
Commander decks
Nekusar, Trostani, Horde of notions, Merieke ri beret, Talruum, Sidesi, Shattergang brothers, Shirei, Deretti, Azusa, Sigurda, Geist of st. Traft, Bw enchantments[/spoiler]
-And others under construction
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Bloodghast
4 Vengevine
//Spells: 10
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Buried Alive
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Dark Confidant
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
2 Big Game Hunter
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Faerie Macabre
There are 16 creatures (Gravecrawler, Bloodghast, Vengevine, Basking Rootwalla) that you are happy to discard to Wild Mongrel or Lotleth Troll and will still land on the battlefield! Lotleth Troll can get big with little effort.
Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler = very large Carrion Feeder
Vengevine + Troll/Mongrel + cheap creatures = free hasty Vengevines
Bloodghasts + Undiscovered Paradise = recurring Bloodghast each turn
You can Buried Alive for 3 Vengevines (as early as turn 2 off DRS), then play 2 cheap dorks to swing with 3 Vengevines the next turn. Or you can Buried Alive for 3 Bloodghasts then trigger Landfall. Or some mix of Bloodghasts and Gravecrawlers. Lots of options.
Carrion Feeder protects you from annoying removal like Swords to Plowshares or Terminus. You can always sacrifice your guys in response to removal to make sure they end up in the graveyard instead of exile or your library, so that they can be recurred later.
If you topdeck a Carrion Feeder or Lotleth Troll with nothing in hand or play but Gravecrawler & Vengevine in the graveyard, you can cast it and pay B to recur Gravecrawler, also bringing back any number of Vengevines in your graveyard. Similarly, every time you use the Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler combo you bring back all Vengevines from your graveyard (Gravecrawler gets "cast" from the grave). That enables this deck to recover quickly even when its whole army is killed.
Compared to your deck, instead of using slow stuff like Malakir Cullblade / Rot Shambler or scavenging +1/+1 counters, this deck builds fatties through Carrion Feeder + fodder (faster and more efficient) and Lotleth Troll + good stuff to pitch. Deadbridge Goliath (expensive 4-drop 5/5 with 6-cost scavenge) is dropped in favor of Vengevine (4-drop 4/3 haste that is usually free). These changes make the strategy faster and more efficient.
The sideboard is designed to let you tweak slots to have appropriate removal, disruption and card advantage. Against graveyard hate you can board into a more grindy BG deck with disruption and card advantage and take out the heavy graveyard dependant stuff (e.g. -3 Buried Alive -4 Bloodghast -2 Vengevine) into good cards (e.g. +4 Dark Confidant +2 Inquisition +1 Sylvan Library +1 Abrupt Decay +1 Jitte). Opponent is then stuck with blanks (and probably mulling into a suboptimal hand) while you win a fair game by just turning stuff sideways.
As for upgrades, the newer card Zulaport Cutthroat fits in nicely. If going for the lifedrain, you can also run Cabal Therapy instead of Thoughtseize (more sacrificing). Haakon, Stromgald Scourge + Nameless Inversion combo is another option. They pitch well to your discard outlets and give you more options to play things out of the graveyard.