I was pretty disappointed with Commander 2015 overall, and it looks to me like there isn't even a good legacy card being printed. Magus of the Wheel is the most likely to see legacy play (probably in burn). What do you think? Are any of the cards in Commander 2015 candidates for a new legacy card?
I don't think it will get there, but Karlov has the potential to be extremely big for a 2 drop.
I think the card is at least high enough quality that it could have seen play in Modern were it legal there. Don't think it will quite make it in Legacy but it should be tried if a shell can be found.
I don't think it will get there, but Karlov has the potential to be extremely big for a 2 drop.
I think the card is at least high enough quality that it could have seen play in Modern were it legal there. Don't think it will quite make it in Legacy but it should be tried if a shell can be found.
In modern I could see something like Karlov->Kitchen Finks->Siege Rhino in junk. He'd be like a Tarmogoyf with built-in removal.
I feel Karlov is best in a soul sisters style of deck.
He's also kinda silly with Deathrite Shaman.
Even if exiling a creature from the yard is irrelevant to the gamestate, 2 life is not irrelevant and adding a Karlov trigger to the mix is huge. DRS also helps cast Karlov in the first place.
Edit: Don't think Magus will get there. Brainstorm into Reforge the Soul isn't seeing play and it's easier to protect.
it´s not hard to build around him, and he grows at a rate that laughs at Tarmogoyf's face while coming with removal built in...
the issue here is that it grows on a pretty underwhelming mechanic which is life gain, but I feel that, given enough tought, he could push a soul sisters-ish deck into competitive legacy.
I don't really see Scourge of Nel Toth happening in Dredge because the BB mana cost would be a bit of a pain to consistently pay. I'll still test it though, because sacrificing creatures is always good
it´s not hard to build around him, and he grows at a rate that laughs at Tarmogoyf's face while coming with removal built in...
the issue here is that it grows on a pretty underwhelming mechanic which is life gain, but I feel that, given enough tought, he could push a soul sisters-ish deck into competitive legacy.
Karlov... Hmm..
t1 Sister, t2 Karlov, 4/4. T3, get 3 spirits in play, swing 10? Next turn is lethal?
it´s not hard to build around him, and he grows at a rate that laughs at Tarmogoyf's face while coming with removal built in...
the issue here is that it grows on a pretty underwhelming mechanic which is life gain, but I feel that, given enough tought, he could push a soul sisters-ish deck into competitive legacy.
Karlov... Hmm..
t1 Sister, t2 Karlov, 4/4. T3, get 3 spirits in play, swing 10? Next turn is lethal?
pretty much that.
it will also grow if your opponent drops a threat with the sister in play.
all you need is some way to gain recurring life and Karlov and he'll be stupid big for a 2 drop.
If that's enough or not, only time will tell.
the problem certainly isn't karlov himself as he's stupid powerful but the deck you'd have to build to make full use of him.
it´s not hard to build around him, and he grows at a rate that laughs at Tarmogoyf's face while coming with removal built in...
the issue here is that it grows on a pretty underwhelming mechanic which is life gain, but I feel that, given enough tought, he could push a soul sisters-ish deck into competitive legacy.
Karlov... Hmm..
t1 Sister, t2 Karlov, 4/4. T3, get 3 spirits in play, swing 10? Next turn is lethal?
pretty much that.
it will also grow if your opponent drops a threat with the sister in play.
all you need is some way to gain recurring life and Karlov and he'll be stupid big for a 2 drop.
If that's enough or not, only time will tell.
the problem certainly isn't karlov himself as he's stupid powerful but the deck you'd have to build to make full use of him.
Birthing Pod to get finks, Melira, Seer... Karlov exiles everything and swings for lethal as early as turn 3 or 4?
I think people are assessing Karlov under the same assumptions we made when (mis)assessing Tarmogoyf.
Back then people said "7/8 for 1G is busted, but it's too much work to make it happen". They didn't consider the scenario that by turn 3 Goyf was often a 1G 3/4 with no effort, or a 4/5 with just a little effort.
And it was the 'just a little effort' side of Goyf that made the card so strong that it is a Modern format pillar and is at least viable in Legacy.
Karlov in Soul Sisters is the 7/8 or 8/9 version of Goyf. Karlov in an Abzan Attrition Legacy port, however, which runs DRS and (maybe) one or two Soul Warden effects might just be a reliable 2 mana 4/4.
2 mana for a 4/4 in hatebear colours is definitely playable in Legacy.
Thief of blood and mizzix mastery I think have the most potential. One is an answer for planeswalkers and could supplement stage depths while the other looks to start another storm deck.
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To be honest, Comm2015 is an out-of-the-park home run for me, given it's printed so many great multiplayer cards. For once they got it right!
It's rare that a single set prints so a lot of cards that are so useful, and some as powerful as Blade of Selves
That said, there's not too many I would expect to see in Legacy. But then, how many COmmander sets give legacy anything other than re-prints anyway?
Mizzix's Mastery looks like a combo target, I'm sure someone will work a way to abuse it.
It's pretty powerful, even if you're doing something as dumb as exiling Enter the Infinite from the grave, c/o Careful Study.
Lightning storm seems riskier, lab maniac would require you to leave at least one blue, possibly two, open when you cast, so you're talking 5 or 6 mana
I think people are assessing Karlov under the same assumptions we made when (mis)assessing Tarmogoyf.
Back then people said "7/8 for 1G is busted, but it's too much work to make it happen". They didn't consider the scenario that by turn 3 Goyf was often a 1G 3/4 with no effort, or a 4/5 with just a little effort.
And it was the 'just a little effort' side of Goyf that made the card so strong that it is a Modern format pillar and is at least viable in Legacy.
Karlov in Soul Sisters is the 7/8 or 8/9 version of Goyf. Karlov in an Abzan Attrition Legacy port, however, which runs DRS and (maybe) one or two Soul Warden effects might just be a reliable 2 mana 4/4.
2 mana for a 4/4 in hatebear colours is definitely playable in Legacy.
The thing is, the effort required to make Karlov work is much more significant than the effort required to make Goyf work. If you go t1 Fetchland, Ponder, FoW a creature, Goyf's coming down as a 4/5 for just playing an extremely strong tempo game. DRS, Jitte, and Batterskull are about the only playable lifegain cards in Legacy, and none of those will have Karlov hitting the board larger than a 2/2, and you've got to invest additional resources to get him to even 4/4 level. Plus, if you're playing green for DRS's lifegain ability, you can just... play Goyf.
Don't get me wrong, it's a card with a lot of potential, but suggesting that it's even close to being Goyf is incorrect.
The card I'm most interested in is Molten Confluence, which I'm currently testing out as a 1-of in a more controlling take on Burn. Having a maindeck out to stuff like Chalice of the Void is nice, 6 damage to the face is significant, and the sweeper mode is surprisingly relevant versus a lot of the field.
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Has anyone tested the Karlov soul sisters build yet? I would love to work on this with someone as I believe I have a good portion of the cards to build this.
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RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
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GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
Maybe. It can be tutored by pod, but I doubt it will have much impact given that Recurring Nightmare loops are better at grinding.
I think the card is at least high enough quality that it could have seen play in Modern were it legal there. Don't think it will quite make it in Legacy but it should be tried if a shell can be found.
In modern I could see something like Karlov->Kitchen Finks->Siege Rhino in junk. He'd be like a Tarmogoyf with built-in removal.
Doubtful on Magus myself. If you're playing him why not just play normal Wheel?
My cube on cubetutor!
Wheel of Fortune is banned in legacy.
He's also kinda silly with Deathrite Shaman.
Even if exiling a creature from the yard is irrelevant to the gamestate, 2 life is not irrelevant and adding a Karlov trigger to the mix is huge. DRS also helps cast Karlov in the first place.
Edit: Don't think Magus will get there. Brainstorm into Reforge the Soul isn't seeing play and it's easier to protect.
it´s not hard to build around him, and he grows at a rate that laughs at Tarmogoyf's face while coming with removal built in...
the issue here is that it grows on a pretty underwhelming mechanic which is life gain, but I feel that, given enough tought, he could push a soul sisters-ish deck into competitive legacy.
I don't really see Scourge of Nel Toth happening in Dredge because the BB mana cost would be a bit of a pain to consistently pay. I'll still test it though, because sacrificing creatures is always good
Karlov... Hmm..
t1 Sister, t2 Karlov, 4/4. T3, get 3 spirits in play, swing 10? Next turn is lethal?
pretty much that.
it will also grow if your opponent drops a threat with the sister in play.
all you need is some way to gain recurring life and Karlov and he'll be stupid big for a 2 drop.
If that's enough or not, only time will tell.
the problem certainly isn't karlov himself as he's stupid powerful but the deck you'd have to build to make full use of him.
Birthing Pod to get finks, Melira, Seer... Karlov exiles everything and swings for lethal as early as turn 3 or 4?
Back then people said "7/8 for 1G is busted, but it's too much work to make it happen". They didn't consider the scenario that by turn 3 Goyf was often a 1G 3/4 with no effort, or a 4/5 with just a little effort.
And it was the 'just a little effort' side of Goyf that made the card so strong that it is a Modern format pillar and is at least viable in Legacy.
Karlov in Soul Sisters is the 7/8 or 8/9 version of Goyf. Karlov in an Abzan Attrition Legacy port, however, which runs DRS and (maybe) one or two Soul Warden effects might just be a reliable 2 mana 4/4.
2 mana for a 4/4 in hatebear colours is definitely playable in Legacy.
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Agreed, Dredge has better things to do.
To be honest, Comm2015 is an out-of-the-park home run for me, given it's printed so many great multiplayer cards. For once they got it right!
It's rare that a single set prints so a lot of cards that are so useful, and some as powerful as Blade of Selves
That said, there's not too many I would expect to see in Legacy. But then, how many COmmander sets give legacy anything other than re-prints anyway?
Skullwinder = Eternal Witness in most cases. It probably won't be relevant in Legacy, but maybe....
Mizzix's Mastery looks like a combo target, I'm sure someone will work a way to abuse it.
It's pretty powerful, even if you're doing something as dumb as exiling Enter the Infinite from the grave, c/o Careful Study.
True Name Nemesis
To a lesser extent, Containment Priest.
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Don't forget Flusterstorm. There's usually decent legacy chase card.
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Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
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The thing is, the effort required to make Karlov work is much more significant than the effort required to make Goyf work. If you go t1 Fetchland, Ponder, FoW a creature, Goyf's coming down as a 4/5 for just playing an extremely strong tempo game. DRS, Jitte, and Batterskull are about the only playable lifegain cards in Legacy, and none of those will have Karlov hitting the board larger than a 2/2, and you've got to invest additional resources to get him to even 4/4 level. Plus, if you're playing green for DRS's lifegain ability, you can just... play Goyf.
Don't get me wrong, it's a card with a lot of potential, but suggesting that it's even close to being Goyf is incorrect.
The card I'm most interested in is Molten Confluence, which I'm currently testing out as a 1-of in a more controlling take on Burn. Having a maindeck out to stuff like Chalice of the Void is nice, 6 damage to the face is significant, and the sweeper mode is surprisingly relevant versus a lot of the field.
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