Having a deck with Enlightened Tutor, I always keep my eyes open for sub-3 CMC targets out of the SB against combo decks, and my interest was piqued by a Mana Maze mention in a Source thread.
I'm not experienced enough with decks like ANT, OmniTell, TES, Elves, Doomsday, and other decks I bring Rule of Law in against, so I'd love combo players' input on the effectiveness of Mana Maze. Obviously coming down on Turn 2 would make a big difference, but is it overlooked for a reason, or is it effective against the aforementioned decks and others (or some of them) in a way that's comparable to Rule of Law? Thanks in advance, spell-chainers.
Well, I've played my share of Omnitell and a couple of those other decks to offer the obvious points (which won't be useful anyway).
Against Omnitell Mana Maze would be a reasonable speedbump, with utility either before or after their Show and Tell. You could either strip a counter, slow their cantripping, or get an extra 1-2 turns after SnT drops. I don't think Mana Maze is going to be better than Ethersworn Canonist (which beats for 2 and protects any counterspells you might throw) for this matchup, but it does dodge Massacre, Pyroclasm, Lightning Bolt, etc. It could be a pretty good supplement to that and/or Meddling Mage if you've got the board space for all of that.
Against the Storm decks there are two problems. First, this is a 2-mana hate card, so the game might be over before it can be cast. Second, these decks generally pack Abrupt Decay as their premier anti-hate card, and Maze is just as vulnerable to that as anything that gets through problem #1 (casting cost cost) would be. Until they find it, however, I doubt many Storm hands could play through the Maze, with ANT more crippled than TES.
Elves isn't going to be slowed down much at all, I think. They can get 1-3 elves on the table before Mana Maze comes down, grind with Wirewood and Visionary, and (given enough beef on the board) kill with just one spell. You'll kill some Glimpse hands and that's about it.
One danger is that you can be locked out of casting counterspells other than Pyroblast by a Brainstorm, or (worse) by a must-counter blue spell.
I'd forgotten that this card exists - it actually strikes me as a scary inclusion in decks that are trying to cast Show and Tell. Achieves the same goal as cards like Xantid Swarm or Overmaster but is probably easier to use.
Well, I've played my share of Omnitell and a couple of those other decks to offer the obvious points (which won't be useful anyway).
Against Omnitell Mana Maze would be a reasonable speedbump, with utility either before or after their Show and Tell. You could either strip a counter, slow their cantripping, or get an extra 1-2 turns after SnT drops. I don't think Mana Maze is going to be better than Ethersworn Canonist (which beats for 2 and protects any counterspells you might throw) for this matchup, but it does dodge Massacre, Pyroclasm, Lightning Bolt, etc. It could be a pretty good supplement to that and/or Meddling Mage if you've got the board space for all of that.
Against the Storm decks there are two problems. First, this is a 2-mana hate card, so the game might be over before it can be cast. Second, these decks generally pack Abrupt Decay as their premier anti-hate card, and Maze is just as vulnerable to that as anything that gets through problem #1 (casting cost cost) would be. Until they find it, however, I doubt many Storm hands could play through the Maze, with ANT more crippled than TES.
Elves isn't going to be slowed down much at all, I think. They can get 1-3 elves on the table before Mana Maze comes down, grind with Wirewood and Visionary, and (given enough beef on the board) kill with just one spell. You'll kill some Glimpse hands and that's about it.
Thanks for the viewpoint. In terms of a singleton Enlightened Tutor target against decks like that (apart from Elves, which definitely calls for Humility if you're popping a tutor off), would you recommend it over Rule of Law (or do you have a different Enchantment in mind)? I'd love to respond to a turn 1 Duress with a Tutor for a turn 2 Mana Maze, etc., but I'm unsure to what degree Maze hampers those decks compared to Rule of Law. As additional info., I have 4 Sterling Grove, no counter spells, and other main deck cards good against these decks.
@sirgog, Somehow the offensive potential of Mana Maze escaped me! I'd still be pretty afraid of running it in Omnitell, envisioning a couple of possible situations.
1) Omnitell gets a Maze down. Opponent soft-locks Omnitell out of casting Show and Tell for awhile by using Brainstorm during Omnitell's upkeep.
2) Omnitell resolves Mana Maze, passes + gets the turn back, and casts Show and Tell. Opponent puts in an Oblivion Ring or Vendilion Clique, and now Omnitell can't respond to the trigger with anything blue.
3) Miracles opponent allows Mana Maze to resolve, then allows Show and Tell to resolve (bringing in a land). Omnitell passes (can't continue the chain, after all) and Miracles gets priority on upkeep. Miracles asts Pyroblast targetting Omniscience, retains priority and Flusterstorm the Pyroblast (paying the 2 mana). Omnitell can't get a spell in between these two, can't respond with a blue spell of its own, and even after the Fluster resolves (with Pyro on the stack) is still locked out of blue spells. Any blue instant would work here in place of Flusterstorm.
I can definitely see the advantage against Storm, however. They probably wouldn't have brought Decay in against Omnitell.
@Basque, well that's what testing is for, isn't it! I'm pretty sure the results comparing this spell with Rule of Law will point in favor of Mana Maze. 3 CMC is just too much for a combo defense, and if you spent turn 1 ramping into mana, the Rule is going to be vulnerable sitting in your hand like that. It works against the Enlightened Tutor plan. Storm is unlikely to get through it, especially if you can cover with a Grove. Mana Maze might be just the thing to buy you time to get more lock pieces down although I don't see it working well on the draw.
Against Omnitell it's definitely a speed bump they won't be expecting, maybe not as good as Ethersworn Canonist... either card would be really smooth if you could pair it with an Oblivion Ring. If you really want to beat Omnitell with Enchantress (since this is one of Magic's more lopsided matchups IMHO) something like 2-3 Iona might be a good place to go.... if you can invest the slots. It's certainly a lot less flexible than Mana Maze.
TES player here. This card would be obnoxious if it stuck and you weren't dead yet. TES runs 7 maindeck hand disruption spells though and I'd rather see this and a permission spell in your hand off of my Gitprobe or Duress than two permission spells; I'll just take the permission and go about my business. "Cool Mana Maze bro, hope it helps stop 16 Goblins." If it takes me a little longer to set up, since TES plays Burning Wish, I can Wish for Void Snare and pop it if I can't find my Abrupt Decays that I boarded in (I'm assuming you wouldn't maindeck this thing). But if I don't strip it and I don't have any way to remove it, then I can't go too crazy. I could still do something like "git probe, petal, chrome mox, LED, infernal for empty, empty for 12 goblins". Maybe I have another gitprobe or something I can throw into the spell chain anyway; even if it gets countered by mana maze, my storm count still goes up. Without this line of play, disruption, or removal for it, it would be a thorn, I just think there are better thorns. Like Thorn of Amethyst. I would hate seeing that come down T1 off of City of Traitors or something. Now, I bet High Tide and Solidarity decks would hate it, if you could stick it.
Bear in mind that any deck running Brainstorm or instant speed cantrips that share your colors can leverage it against you, in the case of Brainstorm, they can do this while digging for a way to break the Maze when it's convenient for them. All in all, I don't see any reason to run it over more established hate.
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But if I don't strip it and I don't have any way to remove it, then I can't go too crazy. I could still do something like "git probe, petal, chrome mox, LED, infernal for empty, empty for 12 goblins". Maybe I have another gitprobe or something I can throw into the spell chain anyway; even if it gets countered by mana maze, my storm count still goes up.
I'd be careful about that line of play--Mana Maze keeps players from CASTING spells that share a colour with the last spell played that turn, so you can't sequence your spells as Blue-Colourless-Colourless-Colourless-Blue--thus, you can't go Gitaxian Probe-Lotus Petal-Chrome Mox-LED-Git Probe. Git Probe-Petal-C. Mox-Rite of Flame-Git Probe-LED-Infernal-EtW is perfectly legal, though.
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I'm not experienced enough with decks like ANT, OmniTell, TES, Elves, Doomsday, and other decks I bring Rule of Law in against, so I'd love combo players' input on the effectiveness of Mana Maze. Obviously coming down on Turn 2 would make a big difference, but is it overlooked for a reason, or is it effective against the aforementioned decks and others (or some of them) in a way that's comparable to Rule of Law? Thanks in advance, spell-chainers.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Against Omnitell Mana Maze would be a reasonable speedbump, with utility either before or after their Show and Tell. You could either strip a counter, slow their cantripping, or get an extra 1-2 turns after SnT drops. I don't think Mana Maze is going to be better than Ethersworn Canonist (which beats for 2 and protects any counterspells you might throw) for this matchup, but it does dodge Massacre, Pyroclasm, Lightning Bolt, etc. It could be a pretty good supplement to that and/or Meddling Mage if you've got the board space for all of that.
Against the Storm decks there are two problems. First, this is a 2-mana hate card, so the game might be over before it can be cast. Second, these decks generally pack Abrupt Decay as their premier anti-hate card, and Maze is just as vulnerable to that as anything that gets through problem #1 (casting cost cost) would be. Until they find it, however, I doubt many Storm hands could play through the Maze, with ANT more crippled than TES.
Elves isn't going to be slowed down much at all, I think. They can get 1-3 elves on the table before Mana Maze comes down, grind with Wirewood and Visionary, and (given enough beef on the board) kill with just one spell. You'll kill some Glimpse hands and that's about it.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I'd forgotten that this card exists - it actually strikes me as a scary inclusion in decks that are trying to cast Show and Tell. Achieves the same goal as cards like Xantid Swarm or Overmaster but is probably easier to use.
Thanks for the viewpoint. In terms of a singleton Enlightened Tutor target against decks like that (apart from Elves, which definitely calls for Humility if you're popping a tutor off), would you recommend it over Rule of Law (or do you have a different Enchantment in mind)? I'd love to respond to a turn 1 Duress with a Tutor for a turn 2 Mana Maze, etc., but I'm unsure to what degree Maze hampers those decks compared to Rule of Law. As additional info., I have 4 Sterling Grove, no counter spells, and other main deck cards good against these decks.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
1) Omnitell gets a Maze down. Opponent soft-locks Omnitell out of casting Show and Tell for awhile by using Brainstorm during Omnitell's upkeep.
2) Omnitell resolves Mana Maze, passes + gets the turn back, and casts Show and Tell. Opponent puts in an Oblivion Ring or Vendilion Clique, and now Omnitell can't respond to the trigger with anything blue.
3) Miracles opponent allows Mana Maze to resolve, then allows Show and Tell to resolve (bringing in a land). Omnitell passes (can't continue the chain, after all) and Miracles gets priority on upkeep. Miracles asts Pyroblast targetting Omniscience, retains priority and Flusterstorm the Pyroblast (paying the 2 mana). Omnitell can't get a spell in between these two, can't respond with a blue spell of its own, and even after the Fluster resolves (with Pyro on the stack) is still locked out of blue spells. Any blue instant would work here in place of Flusterstorm.
I can definitely see the advantage against Storm, however. They probably wouldn't have brought Decay in against Omnitell.
@Basque, well that's what testing is for, isn't it! I'm pretty sure the results comparing this spell with Rule of Law will point in favor of Mana Maze. 3 CMC is just too much for a combo defense, and if you spent turn 1 ramping into mana, the Rule is going to be vulnerable sitting in your hand like that. It works against the Enlightened Tutor plan. Storm is unlikely to get through it, especially if you can cover with a Grove. Mana Maze might be just the thing to buy you time to get more lock pieces down although I don't see it working well on the draw.
Against Omnitell it's definitely a speed bump they won't be expecting, maybe not as good as Ethersworn Canonist... either card would be really smooth if you could pair it with an Oblivion Ring. If you really want to beat Omnitell with Enchantress (since this is one of Magic's more lopsided matchups IMHO) something like 2-3 Iona might be a good place to go.... if you can invest the slots. It's certainly a lot less flexible than Mana Maze.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Bear in mind that any deck running Brainstorm or instant speed cantrips that share your colors can leverage it against you, in the case of Brainstorm, they can do this while digging for a way to break the Maze when it's convenient for them. All in all, I don't see any reason to run it over more established hate.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
I'd be careful about that line of play--Mana Maze keeps players from CASTING spells that share a colour with the last spell played that turn, so you can't sequence your spells as Blue-Colourless-Colourless-Colourless-Blue--thus, you can't go Gitaxian Probe-Lotus Petal-Chrome Mox-LED-Git Probe. Git Probe-Petal-C. Mox-Rite of Flame-Git Probe-LED-Infernal-EtW is perfectly legal, though.