How do u think myth realized will affect legacy given all the cheap cantrips? Unlike monastery swiftspear, the counters are retained to grow huge and late game mana sink.
If he has haste, indestructible, or even hexproof, i could see him breaking legacy. But at this point im not convinced youd want to go all in on an enchantment thats removed by literally anything
In quite a few ways, Myth Realized does not compare favourably to Stoneforge Mystic. While both tend to require W the next turn to do something useful, SFM into Batterskull or Jitte is the much better topdeck...although if you have a ton of cheap noncreature spells in hand, a late-game summoning-sick Myth Reforged can block better than a late-game summoning-sick SFM. (If you have a ton of mana, a topdeck MR only starts blocking better than SFM at 8 mana, while you can cast SFM and Batterskull in the same turn for 7 mana.) Also, Myth Realized demands W every time it wants to swing or block, so you can get Wastelanded out more easily with MR than with SFM. Jace TMS usually doesn't want to bounce SFM but will bounce Batterskull Germ tokens (possibly while getting into SFM Squire range), while Jace TMS can't bounce Myth Realized unless it tries to block (but when it blocks, it gets blown out).
On the other hand, Myth Realized dodges sorcery-speed board wipes unless it tries to block (FWIW), always dodges Liliana of the Veil as long as it doesn't try to block (late ones can be used as Liliana bait), can get a lot bigger than Batterskull late-game, can dodge Bolt entirely as long as you time it's first animation rights, doesn't always get hit by Terminus (although Batterskull can always bounce itself post-Terminus), and is more likely to trigger Prowess (such as from Monastery Mentor)...
Myth would have to find the right deck, the only ones I can think of atm are pox and some enchantress. Enchantress plays enough that this will get very big very fast, with the obvious bonus of it being an enchantment, and pox decks love creatures which are only creatures for a turn to dodge the symmetric sac effects.
Love watching Legacy, but by no means an expert. Do any of you think a Standstill-esque deck could utilize this as a fast wincon rather than dragging the game out with manlands?
Miracles could probably play this card, as you can grow it just by stalling, and late game you can cycle 2 divining tops to grow it into a monster. Just gold fishing 2 of them in my list It can usually block a 4/5 goyf and kill it by the time I land a jace. That to me seems playable enough.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Possible Backup wincon for storm? Fizzle out mid combo and end up with a 6/6 or so, that gets bigger as you durdle around with cantrips.
Can't help but think there's a better use for this though. Anyone remember Shrine of burning Rage during Caw-Blade season in standard? This seems like it could be an even better version of that. Apart from having to actually swing to do damage, of course.
Let's start with the one card from the set that I believe will have a really big effect on Legacy:
This card is pretty deep, and I could see it play a major role in a number of decks. Played on turn 1, Myth Realized plays out a lot like a Monastery Swiftspear that trades the ability to deal an extra point per attack in so that the prowess triggers don't wear off at the end of turn. If you think back to how easy it was to make Swiftspear repeatedly attack for three or even four damage in U/R Delver before even casting Treasure Cruise, you should easily agree that, played on turn 1, this easily has the potential to come in for five or more damage starting turn 3. That kind of sequence overtakes Delver of Secrets for damage output on turn 4 already.
So the first role Myth Realized can fill is that of Delvers five to eight, and it can do so on a similar power level with a few different strengths and weaknesses. Concerning advantages, this is less random than Delver (not relying on the top of your library being what you want), can only be bolted if you're fine with it (just don't activate it before it has the fourth counter), usually ignores sorcery speed sweepers, and will actually clock a lot harder when things go according to plan. As for disadvantages, it costs mana to attack with (pretty big given on how tight a curve Delver strategies operate on in the earlygame), it's more likely to be stopped by removal before getting in damage (given that you're likely to wait until turn 3 to activate it, thereby allowing the opponent to prepare), and it's an even worse topdeck when empty-handed. In short, this card should be about as good as Delver in a blue-based tempo strategy, and we all know how busted Delver has turned out to be. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something along these lines taking names in Legacy events in the near future:
The fact that this is so much harder to deal with than Delver of Secrets, ignores your own sweepers, and can go much bigger means it has the potential to play a very different role too - that of a mana efficient, earlygame-relevant finisher for control decks that operate similar to my Golddigger deck. It gives a deck like that a secondary gameplan of going early beatdown (especially to kill something like Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Liliana of the Veil), will often be able to end things in just two or three swings in the lategame if it has been sitting in play for a couple of turns (having a single spare mana lying around to set it up while defending shouldn't be that hard to do), and gives you a convenient way to take some advantage of unused mana after you've kept up to react on your opponent's turn. Maybe an Esper version of Golddigger influenced by the Dig Through Time shell I developed for the Dragon deck?
In fact, it's decent enough in all of these roles that I could also see it making its way into Miracles if that deck had any room for finishers, though Entreat the Angels is powerful enough that I have my doubts it's worth the maindeck space. It might be worth it in the sideboard either way depending on how high the power level turns out to be in the end and how prevalent planeswalkers end up being, especially given how awesome it is with two Tops turning mana into more counters on your turn.
I think Myth Realized decks can't play Stifle unless they have a higher curve than the average Thresh deck. For too long, you either hold up Stifle or attack with MR, not both. (Yup, those are the times when you have only 1 mana.)
From my limited testing with MR in Tempo Deathblade (12 beaters including 4 MR, with the other 8 beaters being 4 Deathrite Shaman and, you guessed it, 4 SFM), MR does not play nice with beater-heavy hands with light spell back-up (i.e. the old "do I play Deathrite first and risk having to protect it with Daze, thus having no more fuel for MR for at least a couple of turns, or do I play MR and end up with my mana occupied for turns straight and/or have MR be basically dead for turns straight?").
Last long enough with MR and combo WILL be crying uncle...the trick is lasting that long, and long can mean too long against some decks and with some draws. In order for MR to deal more damage than a Delver that flips the turn after it ETB after they both swing for 3 turns, MR's lore counter counts from Turns 2-4 (measured at the combat damage phase) have to add up to 9, which means the lore counter curves probably have to look something like these:
3-3-3 (I don't think I'm consistently casting a FoW, a Daze, and a cantrip/cheap counterspell/cheap removal by the end of Turn 2 anytime soon)
2-3-4 (looks more realistic, but forces me to play a free spell and a cheap spell or 2 free spells by the end of Turn 2, then cast a noncreature spell on every turn after that)
2-2-5 (stalling out early sounds reasonable, but suddenly having that much more to cast on Turn 4 sounds less reasonable)
1-3-5 (casting 1 noncreature spell by the end of Turn 2 looks realistic...casting 2 more by the end of Turn 3 looks a bit more far-fetched...casting an additional 2 more by the end of Turn 4 looks fairly unlikely)
1-2-6 (I don't think this will ever happen to me)
Monastery Swiftspear's damage curves for those MR curve look like these, respectively, where Turn 1 stuff is in parentheses (assume all free spells get cast on Turn 1 and if MR's damage curve starts with 2 or greater, assume I cast that many free spells minus 1):
(3-)2-1-1 (7 damage)
(2-)2-2-2 (8 damage)
(2-)2-1-4 (9 damage)
(1-)2-3-3 (9 damage)
(1-)2-3-5 (11 damage)
In practice, we probably have to knock those damage totals down by 2 because the free spells will probably be drained protecting Swiftspear from counterspells or removal not on our turn. Even then, Turn 1 Swiftspear often deals at least as much damage as Turn 1 MR from Turns 1-3 given the same spell curves (yes, even if we're removing all 2 damage from Turns 1-2).
MR's damage curve looks a lot more like Goyf's than Delver's, which isn't so hot for a 1-drop.
I suspect MR is worse in Legacy than in Modern, even though Legacy has more free noncreature spells, because Legacy can't get as many lands in play as Modern can. I can't see Thresh-like decks reliably hitting 3+ mana to put a lore counter on a late MR, so I predict only midrange and control have the option of charging up MR without casting spells.
Agreed on the math. Even optimally curving out, this struggles to really match the damage output of a Delver and it does so at a SIGNIFICANT tempo cost while dying to everything. This is not the kind of card you should play in a racing deck, IMO.
I think MR best slips into slow lategame decks. It's a resilient win condition that will become unreasonably huge in the lategame, whose drawback (mana to activate) is negligible at that stage, and whose advantages (dodging sweepers and sorcery speed hate) are exactly that those decks need as finishers. Bw Pox or any UW slow control deck are happy to pay WW to attack with an 8/8.
I'm trying to bring back Landstill with this as an alternate win con.
Agreed on the math. Even optimally curving out, this struggles to really match the damage output of a Delver and it does so at a SIGNIFICANT tempo cost while dying to everything. This is not the kind of card you should play in a racing deck, IMO.
I think MR best slips into slow lategame decks. It's a resilient win condition that will become unreasonably huge in the lategame, whose drawback (mana to activate) is negligible at that stage, and whose advantages (dodging sweepers and sorcery speed hate) are exactly that those decks need as finishers. Bw Pox or any UW slow control deck are happy to pay WW to attack with an 8/8.
I'm trying to bring back Landstill with this as an alternate win con.
To be fair, a surprisingly realistic Myth Realized damage curve is 0-4-5 (well, at least this was surprisingly realistic in Modern), which corresponds to something like (1-)2-4-2 for Monastery Swiftspear. Still, that's rather like the damage curve of Goyf, not Delver.
I suspect MR fits best in midrange, as midrange appreciates the extra threat and can actually reasonably pressure opponents with it. So yeah, I suspect I'll see it in Stoneblade or Golddigger the most often. ...And in testing in Tempo Deathblade, any MR + SFM starts basically boil down to devoting early resources to either MR or SFM, not both. (I usually pick devoting resources to SFM.)
On the other hand, Myth Realized dodges sorcery-speed board wipes unless it tries to block (FWIW), always dodges Liliana of the Veil as long as it doesn't try to block (late ones can be used as Liliana bait), can get a lot bigger than Batterskull late-game, can dodge Bolt entirely as long as you time it's first animation rights, doesn't always get hit by Terminus (although Batterskull can always bounce itself post-Terminus), and is more likely to trigger Prowess (such as from Monastery Mentor)...
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Can't help but think there's a better use for this though. Anyone remember Shrine of burning Rage during Caw-Blade season in standard? This seems like it could be an even better version of that. Apart from having to actually swing to do damage, of course.
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Dig Through Time
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
Creatures (7)
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Monastery Mentor
Enchantments (4)
4 Myth Realized
Lands (19)
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Brainstorm
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterspell
Sorceries (12)
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Council's Judgment
4 Myth Realized
Creatures (4)
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands (21)
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
From my limited testing with MR in Tempo Deathblade (12 beaters including 4 MR, with the other 8 beaters being 4 Deathrite Shaman and, you guessed it, 4 SFM), MR does not play nice with beater-heavy hands with light spell back-up (i.e. the old "do I play Deathrite first and risk having to protect it with Daze, thus having no more fuel for MR for at least a couple of turns, or do I play MR and end up with my mana occupied for turns straight and/or have MR be basically dead for turns straight?").
Last long enough with MR and combo WILL be crying uncle...the trick is lasting that long, and long can mean too long against some decks and with some draws. In order for MR to deal more damage than a Delver that flips the turn after it ETB after they both swing for 3 turns, MR's lore counter counts from Turns 2-4 (measured at the combat damage phase) have to add up to 9, which means the lore counter curves probably have to look something like these:
MR's damage curve looks a lot more like Goyf's than Delver's, which isn't so hot for a 1-drop.
I suspect MR is worse in Legacy than in Modern, even though Legacy has more free noncreature spells, because Legacy can't get as many lands in play as Modern can. I can't see Thresh-like decks reliably hitting 3+ mana to put a lore counter on a late MR, so I predict only midrange and control have the option of charging up MR without casting spells.
I think MR best slips into slow lategame decks. It's a resilient win condition that will become unreasonably huge in the lategame, whose drawback (mana to activate) is negligible at that stage, and whose advantages (dodging sweepers and sorcery speed hate) are exactly that those decks need as finishers. Bw Pox or any UW slow control deck are happy to pay WW to attack with an 8/8.
I'm trying to bring back Landstill with this as an alternate win con.
To be fair, a surprisingly realistic Myth Realized damage curve is 0-4-5 (well, at least this was surprisingly realistic in Modern), which corresponds to something like (1-)2-4-2 for Monastery Swiftspear. Still, that's rather like the damage curve of Goyf, not Delver.
I suspect MR fits best in midrange, as midrange appreciates the extra threat and can actually reasonably pressure opponents with it. So yeah, I suspect I'll see it in Stoneblade or Golddigger the most often. ...And in testing in Tempo Deathblade, any MR + SFM starts basically boil down to devoting early resources to either MR or SFM, not both. (I usually pick devoting resources to SFM.)
You stick it, and then you durdle around, trading with their threats. Then you let it play a Marit Lage impersonation and 1-2 shot them.
And if they deal with your Myth, then who cares? They dealt with one of your one drops. you'll live.