I'm looking to find out what amount of spells do I need to activate Young Pyromancer a healthy amount of times. Im looking to see if I can run him in a wide variety of card types and have him be a great card in it.
the math says if you cast one spell after he resolves, then they 1 for 1 it, you're ahead. the math says he likes lots of cheap cantrips, and top 8 math says he also likes shells that pair him with a stoneforge package.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Cast him, hold priority, cast something else and you are now ahead. That is unless they can board wipe you with a card. Also a healthy amount is determined by the deck you are playing against. What removal is expected? What are the chances you will get wiped? What ground forces will they likely have? That kind of thing.
I guess I shouldn't have gotten fancy in my wording. How many spells, at minimum, do I need to run in a deck with Young Pyromancer? Ten? Fifteen? Twenty? More? Can someone show me a formula, similar to how many blue cards is needed to reliably cast Force of Will alternate cost as a comparison of what I'm trying to accomplish with this thread.
You cant draw the same comparison because the card becomes increasingly more powerful the more spells you have to cast, unlike FoW which simply does one thing and requires one cost. And even with FoW it still comes down to what you find to be 'acceptable' probability, which is subjective.
If the purpose of the question is simply to determine how many spells you need to have 1 in hand to cast at the same time, then the 'math' would be the same as FoW. The chance of having at least one of a category of cards when you have the card in question in hand.
But correct answer is 'as many as possible'. If you are trying to play Young Pyro in a spell light build, I might question whether he is actually the best card for that slot.
You have to consider what colors/types of spells you're running. If you're running Jund colors, for example, the question hinges on whether you run Loam and/or PFire/Grove. If you're in blue, how many cantrips?
Cantrips help solve the problem because you don't have to wait; you just cast them and find another card. If it's a cantrip or useful spell, you're golden.
My guess would be stick around the 20 mark as that should (roughly) give you a 90% chance to "Given you have Young Pyro in hand, have two spells in hand." Or in other words, 90% of the time you hit turn 2 with a Young Pyro in hand, you'll have or have drawn a second instant/sorcery (and you may have used the other T1.)
EDIT:
The more of that 20 that is cantrips, the more you can cheat this. If it's a spell like PFire, you really just want to intersect them; which can be done with Dredge or Entomb. It's hard to say without a rough deck composition what's correct, but I'd default to 20 instants/sorceries and then see how many of them recur (or find others) and how many activations you think you need for Young Pyro to be "Worth it."
My experience with a Pfire brew was entertaining/decent and most of my activations came from removal.
You won't be able to get an easy number like with Force maths because there are a lot of things that go into the calculations. When you calculate for FOW, usually you just need the probability that you have a blue card to go along with it in your opening seven. You can throw stuff like mulligans into the computation, but in general it isn't complicated.
Young Pyromancer isn't about turn zero. In fact, what turn is it even about? Turn 2? Only if you have a free spell you want to cast, so what are the chances you have a free spell on turn 2? And once you know the turn you want to calculate for, how do you do it? Nine cards deep? Ten? Well what about cantrips on turn 1? How deep did they dig and were they even digging for other spells? What are the chances that you cast a cantrip on turn 1? The point is, the Young Pyromancer maths really depends not only on the number of spells but also on the specific spells in your deck. Hence the answer "many."
Cast him, hold priority, cast something else and you are now ahead. That is unless they can board wipe you with a card. Also a healthy amount is determined by the deck you are playing against. What removal is expected? What are the chances you will get wiped? What ground forces will they likely have? That kind of thing.
Huh? You get priority back when the Pyromancer resolves, if you "hold priority" after casting him, he's still on the stack when you cast your next spell.
Cast him, hold priority, cast something else and you are now ahead. That is unless they can board wipe you with a card. Also a healthy amount is determined by the deck you are playing against. What removal is expected? What are the chances you will get wiped? What ground forces will they likely have? That kind of thing.
Huh? You get priority back when the Pyromancer resolves, if you "hold priority" after casting him, he's still on the stack when you cast your next spell.
You are technically correct. That said, from the context, it is pretty clear that Dice_Bag meant "cast him, let it resolve, hold priority, cast something else."
The minimum is 16 (though in Standard 12 was OK in specific builds). He starts to shine at 20. More and he obviously gets better.
This is from a lot of testing in Standard, Modern, and Legacy but I don't really feel like typing out everything. Take my word for it or not, but that's what I've found. The more powerful the individual spells are, the easier it is to cheat downward on the spell count, but the more enticing it is to play more of them.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
If the purpose of the question is simply to determine how many spells you need to have 1 in hand to cast at the same time, then the 'math' would be the same as FoW. The chance of having at least one of a category of cards when you have the card in question in hand.
But correct answer is 'as many as possible'. If you are trying to play Young Pyro in a spell light build, I might question whether he is actually the best card for that slot.
Cantrips help solve the problem because you don't have to wait; you just cast them and find another card. If it's a cantrip or useful spell, you're golden.
My guess would be stick around the 20 mark as that should (roughly) give you a 90% chance to "Given you have Young Pyro in hand, have two spells in hand." Or in other words, 90% of the time you hit turn 2 with a Young Pyro in hand, you'll have or have drawn a second instant/sorcery (and you may have used the other T1.)
EDIT:
The more of that 20 that is cantrips, the more you can cheat this. If it's a spell like PFire, you really just want to intersect them; which can be done with Dredge or Entomb. It's hard to say without a rough deck composition what's correct, but I'd default to 20 instants/sorceries and then see how many of them recur (or find others) and how many activations you think you need for Young Pyro to be "Worth it."
My experience with a Pfire brew was entertaining/decent and most of my activations came from removal.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Young Pyromancer isn't about turn zero. In fact, what turn is it even about? Turn 2? Only if you have a free spell you want to cast, so what are the chances you have a free spell on turn 2? And once you know the turn you want to calculate for, how do you do it? Nine cards deep? Ten? Well what about cantrips on turn 1? How deep did they dig and were they even digging for other spells? What are the chances that you cast a cantrip on turn 1? The point is, the Young Pyromancer maths really depends not only on the number of spells but also on the specific spells in your deck. Hence the answer "many."
Huh? You get priority back when the Pyromancer resolves, if you "hold priority" after casting him, he's still on the stack when you cast your next spell.
If you explicitly stated "hold priority" before casting a brainstorm in a tournament you wouldn't get your token.
This is from a lot of testing in Standard, Modern, and Legacy but I don't really feel like typing out everything. Take my word for it or not, but that's what I've found. The more powerful the individual spells are, the easier it is to cheat downward on the spell count, but the more enticing it is to play more of them.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero