So, this might be asinine speculation, but this card is underrated against Treasure Cruise. Hear me out:
-Enters the Battlefield turn 0, preventing it from beingForce of Will'd
-There is no removal spell run in legacy treasure cruise decks that can remove it
-You can still reasure cruise if it hits the board
The downsides is that it needs to be in your opening hand, and it's a completely empty draw in the late game. Still, is it worth it, or am I just being foolish?
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Standard
>implying Modern
>implying Legacy UWMiracles/Countertop EDH UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR My Trades
Only useful if you have another reason to run it (like above) or you really want graveyard hate for reasons beyond Treasure Cruise. Against a deck like UR which has no other reliance on the graveyard, it is bad. Why? Because when you're running Leyline, you probably have four of them in your deck to have the CHANCE to have it in your opening hand (peak performance). What you're done is blanked four of your cards for four of their cards. However, your Leyline is "blank-er" than their Treasure Cruise because TC can be pitched to Force and shuffled away with Brainstorm (if you're also running BS you can cross this one off). In other words, the maximum potential against the most popular decks running Treasure Cruise is slightly worse than breaking even.
It reminds me of Stifle in that it would be run for a very corner case reason, which rarely pays off very well. The effect doesn't really compensate for the slots it takes up. Maybe if you ran it with Helm of Obedience in the right shell, but that shell usually prefers RiP.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
I'm expecting Ill-Gotten Gains to come back in a big way, alongside main-deck graveyard hate. Along with Helm of Obedience, maybe with Web of Inertia or Mist of Stagnation even.
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Master of inaccurate, non-thought-out baseless and naive statements.
I like baby fowl.
Well, it's the best card in the Dredge mirror. The trouble with a card like this is that alone, it isn't very good. Non-graveyard based decks essentially run Snapcaster, Dig, or Cruise. Main deck Rest in Peace is a thing now for those reasons and Tarmogoyf/Deathrite and Lavamancer/Life From the Loam nerfing. Leyline is in many situations worse.
So let's do a cost/benefit analysis of Leyline: Benefits
-When used in combination with certain other cards, it is very strong. See above suggestion of Helm of Obedience as well as Pox/Liliana. Hymn to Tourach also becomes much better when delve and Snapcaster possibilities are eliminated.
-If you expect a lot of budget players who will be playing Dredge or graveyard-based combo decks, then it's a good metagame call.
-If you expect a lot of Lands players, it's a good metagame call to have them in your sideboard.
-It can't be destroyed by Abrupt Decay, and spells that could destroy it are found more in sideboards than main decks.
Costs
-You have to play other cards that pair with it to make it good.
-Your opponent's deck has to rely on the graveyard somehow for it to be good.
-Doesn't fully stop Tarmogoyf or Deathrite Shaman.
-The turn 0 benefit is really not a benefit except against ultra-aggressive graveyard decks like Reanimator or Dredge, which seek to use the graveyard as a resource starting turn one.
-Assuming you do not have turn 0 Leyline, Treasure Cruise decks will still get some fetches, counters, and cantrips into the graveyard before you can spend probably your whole turn casting a Leyline, at which point in the game, a 4-mana spell that doesn't immediately change the game is too late.
-Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, and Rest In Peace are in many situations (and, I would estimate, the plurality of situations) better because they immediately clear out everything and the former two replace themselves.
-The first Leyline is the only one that matters, having a totally redundant effect thanks to - like you said - Treasure Cruise decks having no removal for it except counterspells.
-Consequently, the second through fourth Leyline are terrible pretty much all the time. It would take a Maelstrom Pulse, Oblivion Ring, Vindicate, or Pernicious Deed (to name cards that you would could really expect to see maindeck in a tournament) to clear one off the board. So really, assuming you start the game with a Leyline, you now have 3/53 cards (5.67%) of your deck that does nothing to affect the game.
-A double-Leyline opening hand is usually the same as a mulligan.
So my opinion is obvious, but I'm glad we're discussing it, since it is a thing worth thinking about. I know I personally got my playset of Rest In Peaces after I did this initial consideration. Thanks for starting the thread!
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-Enters the Battlefield turn 0, preventing it from beingForce of Will'd
-There is no removal spell run in legacy treasure cruise decks that can remove it
-You can still reasure cruise if it hits the board
The downsides is that it needs to be in your opening hand, and it's a completely empty draw in the late game. Still, is it worth it, or am I just being foolish?
>implying
Modern
>implying
Legacy
UWMiracles/Countertop
EDH
UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU
RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU
GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR
My Trades
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
I like baby fowl.
So let's do a cost/benefit analysis of Leyline:
Benefits
-When used in combination with certain other cards, it is very strong. See above suggestion of Helm of Obedience as well as Pox/Liliana. Hymn to Tourach also becomes much better when delve and Snapcaster possibilities are eliminated.
-If you expect a lot of budget players who will be playing Dredge or graveyard-based combo decks, then it's a good metagame call.
-If you expect a lot of Lands players, it's a good metagame call to have them in your sideboard.
-It can't be destroyed by Abrupt Decay, and spells that could destroy it are found more in sideboards than main decks.
Costs
-You have to play other cards that pair with it to make it good.
-Your opponent's deck has to rely on the graveyard somehow for it to be good.
-Doesn't fully stop Tarmogoyf or Deathrite Shaman.
-The turn 0 benefit is really not a benefit except against ultra-aggressive graveyard decks like Reanimator or Dredge, which seek to use the graveyard as a resource starting turn one.
-Assuming you do not have turn 0 Leyline, Treasure Cruise decks will still get some fetches, counters, and cantrips into the graveyard before you can spend probably your whole turn casting a Leyline, at which point in the game, a 4-mana spell that doesn't immediately change the game is too late.
-Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, and Rest In Peace are in many situations (and, I would estimate, the plurality of situations) better because they immediately clear out everything and the former two replace themselves.
-The first Leyline is the only one that matters, having a totally redundant effect thanks to - like you said - Treasure Cruise decks having no removal for it except counterspells.
-Consequently, the second through fourth Leyline are terrible pretty much all the time. It would take a Maelstrom Pulse, Oblivion Ring, Vindicate, or Pernicious Deed (to name cards that you would could really expect to see maindeck in a tournament) to clear one off the board. So really, assuming you start the game with a Leyline, you now have 3/53 cards (5.67%) of your deck that does nothing to affect the game.
-A double-Leyline opening hand is usually the same as a mulligan.
So my opinion is obvious, but I'm glad we're discussing it, since it is a thing worth thinking about. I know I personally got my playset of Rest In Peaces after I did this initial consideration. Thanks for starting the thread!