I think people with the money to invest in a deck like pod, which is fairly expensive all things considered, will be able to shift over into legacy. Also, all the salty pod players, if they're not just done with magic, will probably kick back to legacy just for some stability. Also I think legacy is a bit more interactive, and lets be honest, fun, than modern. Legacy is a really diverse format, especially with the banning of TC, so it should be a lot of fun to see more people investing into it and playing stuff.
As one of those salty pod players (entered the format to play Pod, was getting close to completing the deck), living on a grad student budget is the one big reason that I'm not jumping right into Nic Fit. For now French will be my competitive deck, but Legacy is on my radar and modern is off of it.
As one of those salty pod players (entered the format to play Pod, was getting close to completing the deck), living on a grad student budget is the one big reason that I'm not jumping right into Nic Fit. For now French will be my competitive deck, but Legacy is on my radar and modern is off of it.
I am lucky that I built my Modern Pod deck from store credit, and I have the other cards necessary to convert to Junk or another Modern deck if I wanted to, so I at least the bannings didn't financially keep me from playing Modern. But the loss of Pod left such a sour taste in my mouth that I can't see myself returning. The problem is two-fold:
1) Birthing Pod is a sweet Magic card that was by far the most interesting thing Modern had to offer me, and
2) I can't trust the DCI not to ban other lynchpin cards in Modern after I take the time and effort to build and learn another deck.
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Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
@lordofthepit23
I would only need Snapcasters and some of the sideboard to make U/R Delver, but a combination of salt and distrust slammed that door. To date the two EDH committees have kept knee-jerk boogeyman bannings in check (particularly French), so it just makes sense to fully commit to those formats then walk back into the minefield.
I was a salty Countercat player and I know the feel of all those Pod players right now.
Modern never again.
About UR Delver in Legacy after TC, the deck is still playable, just will go back to the old version running a more tempo oriented strategy instead of stupidly dumping all the cards in hand to feed Cruise. That means Goblin Guide instead of Swiftspear and more burn spells. It used to be a very good deck in the format and I expect the old build to be equally as good right now as it was before.
The people I feel for in Legacy right now are the Storm players. A lot of folks picked up the deck seeking those easy G1s against an UR Delver packing only Force of Will and Daze in the MD.
There will no longer be as many of those decks around, and while Shardless BUG has pretty much just Force, the return of Wasteland and discard could make life hard for those folks. It might be awhile before we see Storm in the finals again.
The people I feel for in Legacy right now are the Storm players.
I just want to point out that this sentence has never been said before.
I realize that this is Legacy and that most of the decks are unfair, but no one has ever looked at a Storm build and thought "this deck could use some help."
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Yea, if your a Storm player and you think you need a better deck, learn DDFT. Oh and keep close some painkillers.
I built Jund in modern, best choice I ever made. When DRS got the axe I just finished the Legacy version on very little money. They are more or less the same deck. I also feel like Pod was a ban people could see coming. It was a deck that only got better with time that every single Modern podcast I tune into before the announcement said was close to the line. I think the most compelling argument I came across was that when it dropped it's combo roots and just went Midrange, at that point it became too hard to hate out and was doomed.
Always, not a thread for Modern and I do not expect a great many players to switch. Legacy at its cheapest for competitive builds is Modern at its most expensive. If someone has limited cash, it makes sense to just build in Modern, doubley so since MM2 proves that Wizards will at lest offer something akin to support for the format. While it makes sense from a stability aspect to switch to Legacy, it's not for everyone and it's not a cheep hobby either. Add on aspects like local support in games shops, a slightly lower complexity of the format and a somewhat slower simpler style of play, Modern has its fan base and really does sing to those that like it.
If you are coming to Legacy, I feel you would have sooner or later anyway. The banning of a card might be the catalyst for the switch, but in the long run you likely would have done so on your own. Those that want to play Legacy do, those that want to play Modern do. I see no joy in laughing at Modern as a format and those that play it like we are some kind of elite, spending more money doesn't give us a right to look down at those that enjoy a different style of play. We're not elite, we are just different and like different things.
@Domantas
Pod was going to be my entry into modern. I've played a whopping one event (four round weekly at FLGS) with a borrowed Soul Sisters deck, so it's not like I'm attached to the format. I have some interest in Delver, since I see it as Pod's rival, but my trade priorities have shifted to Legacy or bust, by way of French. Incidentally, the Cloudnaught deck on Channelfireball looks interesting.
I wonder if it would be possible for WotC to errata the shocklands to remove the "Pay 2 life" clause, at least for Legacy.
That would be huge.
Or, they could create a new type of dual, Legendary duals with "gain 2 life" that could make paying life for shocks less of a deal-killer. There are many things they could do to ease the burden of paying for the ABU duals. But they won't, because it won't make them money and they don't care about Legacy.
If Wizards really wanted to print more duals, they could print snow covered dual lands without other drawbacks. They don't really get any money from legacy though, so there isn't a good reason for them to do so.
I wonder if it would be possible for WotC to errata the shocklands to remove the "Pay 2 life" clause, at least for Legacy.
That would be huge.
Or, they could create a new type of dual, Legendary duals with "gain 2 life" that could make paying life for shocks less of a deal-killer. There are many things they could do to ease the burden of paying for the ABU duals. But they won't, because it won't make them money and they don't care about Legacy.
If Wizards really wanted to print more duals, they could print snow covered dual lands without other drawbacks. They don't really get any money from legacy though, so there isn't a good reason for them to do so.
That actually wouldn't get around the reserved list, but your general idea is correct. They could support Legacy with cards that are realistically the same as duals in terms of gameplay without being "functionally identical," but they don't want to.
I'm the first one to complain about the price of dual lands in Legacy (I'm trying to build my first deck and I'll probably have to pick shocklands instead, meh) and I'll even extend my complaints to other staples such as FoW, Wastelands, tutors, ...
However, I can't help but notice a paradox :
- You realize the "reserved list" is akin to a bottleneck, a strong barrier for new players.
- You regret that WotC does nothing to relieve the players
- You get a sense of pride for how Legacy regulates itself, thanks to its "grassroot"
- But nobody ever defend the use of proxies in tournaments. I understand that would be a major financial concession for those who already own these cards deemed "proxiable" but that would solve everything else. It would mean more players, and we could finally focus on strategy instead of stock market level trading.
How do you explain this ?
Of course Legacy as we know it can still last a long time (the stats of lordofthepit23 are encouraging), but if it really wants to grow, I personnally think some changes need to be done.
(again : my opinion)
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
...They don't really get any money from legacy though, so there isn't a good reason for them to do so.
This is a fairly nonsensical reasoning.
Company X knows that there are a bunch of people demanding the limited quantities of Product Y that they used to make within the secondary market. Instead of selling Product Y to these people, they do nothing. By doing nothing, they dont get any sales from those people. Thus somehow leading to the conclusion that they still wouldnt get sales from those people if they sold the Product Y that people are already producing demand for within the secondary market.
In other words: You go to a store. The store doesnt have anything you wanted so you dont buy anything. Therefore the store owner extrapolates that if he sold something that you did want you still wouldnt buy anything.
Instead of selling Product Y to these people, they do nothing. By doing nothing, they dont get any sales from those people.
Maybe they do make money of those people. There are probably people who would bail from Standard, or especially Modern, if Legacy were more affordable. The upside is that while WotC are not motivated to make Legacy affordable, they are also not motivated to make it "fun" (aka, pushing midrange with the banhammer)
-But nobody ever defend the use of proxies in tournaments...
How do you explain this ?
Maybe a fear that LGSs would cut support for Legacy without the ability to sell high priced staples? Vintage is commonly proxie friendly, but you don't see a lot of support. Sadly, the bottle-neck you described poses the same problem, so it's a catch 22.
Maybe a fear that LGSs would cut support for Legacy without the ability to sell high priced staples? Vintage is commonly proxie friendly, but you don't see a lot of support. Sadly, the bottle-neck you described poses the same problem, so it's a catch 22. Frown
I guess you're right in the case of LGSs :/
But do they have that many staples anyway ? Where do they find them, do they really make profit with them ?
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
That's the catch 22. As staples become more scarce and more prohibitively priced, LGSs will stop making money from the Legacy community whether proxies becomes a thing or not.
Mostly I think they get their staples from players who need the money or want to trade for other cards. Usually they give 60-70 percent on trade, and 40-55 percent on sale (in my experience). The difference is there profit. Some stores carry a lot of staples, some have very few. But without a market and supply of these, your LGS has very little motivation to run Legacy.
Then maybe the community should start hosting its own tournaments. This way, there is no question of "profit" or "WotC legal" involved. Just... playing.
But maybe I'm too idealistic on this topic.
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
Some of the bigger events in my area are organised by a player (though held at a LGS). The fee covers prize support, plus a rake for the shop.
A potential solution is for the communities to encourage LGSs to take a bigger cut of the kitty. Especially if the alternative is to rent a hall, and have to pay for that out of the entries! Often students or military personnel will have access to large rooms for events they organise without having to pay, so that's possible too.
Not necessarily. Pod is amongst the cheapest GWB decks, since no Goyfs, Lilys and Bobs are used. Moreover, I have not checked the prices, but methinks that multicolour decks with Blue are more expensive as well. Pod was one of the more accessible yet decent decks in Modern, thus its loss has increased the Modern entry fee. Of course, this means that some players might consider converting to Legacy.
The difference is pod required constant investment to deal with the changing meta. Jund and junk, and most other decks, stay relatively the same over time. Since I got into modern about a year ago pod has gone from melira pod, to angel pod, to rhino pod. Each time there was a pretty solid investment by players to keep up with the meta changes. Junk and Jund are one time investments for the most part. And that isn't really a fair comparison because goyf's are stupidly expensive.
But overall yeah pod is much more accessible since it basically plays 14 to 15 1-ofs, so it's way easier to just leaf through your collection and be like oh I happen to have 1 shriekmaw, or 1 archangel of thune. And there are a lot of new cards so people can buy a couple boxes or draft sets and get most of the core cards for it. It is definitely harder to just happen across a playset of goyfs.
I'm the first one to complain about the price of dual lands in Legacy (I'm trying to build my first deck and I'll probably have to pick shocklands instead, meh) and I'll even extend my complaints to other staples such as FoW, Wastelands, tutors, ...
However, I can't help but notice a paradox :
- You realize the "reserved list" is akin to a bottleneck, a strong barrier for new players.
- You regret that WotC does nothing to relieve the players
- You get a sense of pride for how Legacy regulates itself, thanks to its "grassroot"
- But nobody ever defend the use of proxies in tournaments. I understand that would be a major financial concession for those who already own these cards deemed "proxiable" but that would solve everything else. It would mean more players, and we could finally focus on strategy instead of stock market level trading.
How do you explain this ?
Of course Legacy as we know it can still last a long time (the stats of lordofthepit23 are encouraging), but if it really wants to grow, I personnally think some changes need to be done.
(again : my opinion)
Use of proxies 'may' have been one of the contributing factors to the decline of Vintage. Past research articles regarding the decline of Vintage shows that the use of proxies for all of the power 9 and other staples resulted in an incentive system whereby vintage tournament winners would sell off power almost immediately once obtained as there was lack of an incentive to keep them. Why keep power when proxies were legal to use in tournament setting? There is a lack in pride of ownership when proxies are legal to use in tournaments. Eventually, most of this sold power went overseas (USA being the origin).
Proxies DID help Vintage out in the short term but in the long run with the advantage of hindsight, it was probably one of the factors that made Vintage into what it is today.
Allowing proxies is same as letting people use counterfeit cards, which wrecks the game as we know it regardless of the format. More reasonable solutions are to either borrow the missing cards, save money for them (no rotation makes deck building time irrelevant) or simply play something suiting your budget (deck or format). Also, this post of yours belongs in the "Complain about Legacy Prices & Availability Thread" thread. And you surely are not the first person to make such complain.
This format is not that desperate for fresh meat to become more accessible and challenging accessibility is not the only reason other formats are also being attended.
I could have written in yet another topic you don't read, but I thought it was relevant regarding the popularity of legacy.
Overall, I think my "problem" is that I feel any game, just like any sport, should be accessible to fresh meat. Otherwise, it risks being downright nepotic, or "pay to win". It shouldn't be a question of "that format has enough players already" or whatever.
Also, I'm not talking about counterfeiting, nor am I talking about hurting innocent puppies and kittens. I am not a "criminal", thank you.
Use of proxies 'may' have been one of the contributing factors to the decline of Vintage. Past research articles regarding the decline of Vintage shows that the use of proxies for all of the power 9 and other staples resulted in an incentive system whereby vintage tournament winners would sell off power almost immediately once obtained as there was lack of an incentive to keep them. Why keep power when proxies were legal to use in tournament setting? There is a lack in pride of ownership when proxies are legal to use in tournaments. Eventually, most of this sold power went overseas (USA being the origin).
Proxies DID help Vintage out in the short term but in the long run with the advantage of hindsight, it was probably one of the factors that made Vintage into what it is today.
Ok, so that's what happened. I left Magic for seven years when vintage was still kicking, so I didn't know that.
However, it can't explain everything... If the P9 was instantly sold, it means that there were buyers to buy and play this very P9. Thus the number of players shouldn't have been decreasing.
As for the "pride of ownership", it covers different feelings. First : I'm proud to own my deck that I built myself. Second : I'm proud to own that expensive card that you can't afford. I think that one shouldn't have its place in a game (but agains, it's my idealistic and personal opinion)
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
However, it can't explain everything... If the P9 was instantly sold, it means that there were buyers to buy and play this very P9. Thus the number of players shouldn't have been decreasing.
When it comes to the P9, you can't assume that people purchase them to play with them. Collectors and MTG "investors" chase them at a high rate, which means they sit in a collection somewhere and rarely ever see the light of day.
I'm in the middle of building UWr Miracles!
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
I am lucky that I built my Modern Pod deck from store credit, and I have the other cards necessary to convert to Junk or another Modern deck if I wanted to, so I at least the bannings didn't financially keep me from playing Modern. But the loss of Pod left such a sour taste in my mouth that I can't see myself returning. The problem is two-fold:
1) Birthing Pod is a sweet Magic card that was by far the most interesting thing Modern had to offer me, and
2) I can't trust the DCI not to ban other lynchpin cards in Modern after I take the time and effort to build and learn another deck.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingI would only need Snapcasters and some of the sideboard to make U/R Delver, but a combination of salt and distrust slammed that door. To date the two EDH committees have kept knee-jerk boogeyman bannings in check (particularly French), so it just makes sense to fully commit to those formats then walk back into the minefield.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Modern never again.
About UR Delver in Legacy after TC, the deck is still playable, just will go back to the old version running a more tempo oriented strategy instead of stupidly dumping all the cards in hand to feed Cruise. That means Goblin Guide instead of Swiftspear and more burn spells. It used to be a very good deck in the format and I expect the old build to be equally as good right now as it was before.
There will no longer be as many of those decks around, and while Shardless BUG has pretty much just Force, the return of Wasteland and discard could make life hard for those folks. It might be awhile before we see Storm in the finals again.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I just want to point out that this sentence has never been said before.
I realize that this is Legacy and that most of the decks are unfair, but no one has ever looked at a Storm build and thought "this deck could use some help."
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
I built Jund in modern, best choice I ever made. When DRS got the axe I just finished the Legacy version on very little money. They are more or less the same deck. I also feel like Pod was a ban people could see coming. It was a deck that only got better with time that every single Modern podcast I tune into before the announcement said was close to the line. I think the most compelling argument I came across was that when it dropped it's combo roots and just went Midrange, at that point it became too hard to hate out and was doomed.
Always, not a thread for Modern and I do not expect a great many players to switch. Legacy at its cheapest for competitive builds is Modern at its most expensive. If someone has limited cash, it makes sense to just build in Modern, doubley so since MM2 proves that Wizards will at lest offer something akin to support for the format. While it makes sense from a stability aspect to switch to Legacy, it's not for everyone and it's not a cheep hobby either. Add on aspects like local support in games shops, a slightly lower complexity of the format and a somewhat slower simpler style of play, Modern has its fan base and really does sing to those that like it.
If you are coming to Legacy, I feel you would have sooner or later anyway. The banning of a card might be the catalyst for the switch, but in the long run you likely would have done so on your own. Those that want to play Legacy do, those that want to play Modern do. I see no joy in laughing at Modern as a format and those that play it like we are some kind of elite, spending more money doesn't give us a right to look down at those that enjoy a different style of play. We're not elite, we are just different and like different things.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Pod was going to be my entry into modern. I've played a whopping one event (four round weekly at FLGS) with a borrowed Soul Sisters deck, so it's not like I'm attached to the format. I have some interest in Delver, since I see it as Pod's rival, but my trade priorities have shifted to Legacy or bust, by way of French. Incidentally, the Cloudnaught deck on Channelfireball looks interesting.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
I've heard that the saltiest people right now are Enchantress players, as U/R Delver was mostly a Bye to them I believe.
If Wizards really wanted to print more duals, they could print snow covered dual lands without other drawbacks. They don't really get any money from legacy though, so there isn't a good reason for them to do so.
However, I can't help but notice a paradox :
- You realize the "reserved list" is akin to a bottleneck, a strong barrier for new players.
- You regret that WotC does nothing to relieve the players
- You get a sense of pride for how Legacy regulates itself, thanks to its "grassroot"
- But nobody ever defend the use of proxies in tournaments. I understand that would be a major financial concession for those who already own these cards deemed "proxiable" but that would solve everything else. It would mean more players, and we could finally focus on strategy instead of stock market level trading.
How do you explain this ?
Of course Legacy as we know it can still last a long time (the stats of lordofthepit23 are encouraging), but if it really wants to grow, I personnally think some changes need to be done.
(again : my opinion)
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
This is a fairly nonsensical reasoning.
Company X knows that there are a bunch of people demanding the limited quantities of Product Y that they used to make within the secondary market. Instead of selling Product Y to these people, they do nothing. By doing nothing, they dont get any sales from those people. Thus somehow leading to the conclusion that they still wouldnt get sales from those people if they sold the Product Y that people are already producing demand for within the secondary market.
In other words: You go to a store. The store doesnt have anything you wanted so you dont buy anything. Therefore the store owner extrapolates that if he sold something that you did want you still wouldnt buy anything.
Maybe they do make money of those people. There are probably people who would bail from Standard, or especially Modern, if Legacy were more affordable. The upside is that while WotC are not motivated to make Legacy affordable, they are also not motivated to make it "fun" (aka, pushing midrange with the banhammer)
Maybe a fear that LGSs would cut support for Legacy without the ability to sell high priced staples? Vintage is commonly proxie friendly, but you don't see a lot of support. Sadly, the bottle-neck you described poses the same problem, so it's a catch 22.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I guess you're right in the case of LGSs :/
But do they have that many staples anyway ? Where do they find them, do they really make profit with them ?
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
Mostly I think they get their staples from players who need the money or want to trade for other cards. Usually they give 60-70 percent on trade, and 40-55 percent on sale (in my experience). The difference is there profit. Some stores carry a lot of staples, some have very few. But without a market and supply of these, your LGS has very little motivation to run Legacy.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
But maybe I'm too idealistic on this topic.
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
A potential solution is for the communities to encourage LGSs to take a bigger cut of the kitty. Especially if the alternative is to rent a hall, and have to pay for that out of the entries! Often students or military personnel will have access to large rooms for events they organise without having to pay, so that's possible too.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
The difference is pod required constant investment to deal with the changing meta. Jund and junk, and most other decks, stay relatively the same over time. Since I got into modern about a year ago pod has gone from melira pod, to angel pod, to rhino pod. Each time there was a pretty solid investment by players to keep up with the meta changes. Junk and Jund are one time investments for the most part. And that isn't really a fair comparison because goyf's are stupidly expensive.
But overall yeah pod is much more accessible since it basically plays 14 to 15 1-ofs, so it's way easier to just leaf through your collection and be like oh I happen to have 1 shriekmaw, or 1 archangel of thune. And there are a lot of new cards so people can buy a couple boxes or draft sets and get most of the core cards for it. It is definitely harder to just happen across a playset of goyfs.
Use of proxies 'may' have been one of the contributing factors to the decline of Vintage. Past research articles regarding the decline of Vintage shows that the use of proxies for all of the power 9 and other staples resulted in an incentive system whereby vintage tournament winners would sell off power almost immediately once obtained as there was lack of an incentive to keep them. Why keep power when proxies were legal to use in tournament setting? There is a lack in pride of ownership when proxies are legal to use in tournaments. Eventually, most of this sold power went overseas (USA being the origin).
Proxies DID help Vintage out in the short term but in the long run with the advantage of hindsight, it was probably one of the factors that made Vintage into what it is today.
I could have written in yet another topic you don't read, but I thought it was relevant regarding the popularity of legacy.
Overall, I think my "problem" is that I feel any game, just like any sport, should be accessible to fresh meat. Otherwise, it risks being downright nepotic, or "pay to win". It shouldn't be a question of "that format has enough players already" or whatever.
Also, I'm not talking about counterfeiting, nor am I talking about hurting innocent puppies and kittens. I am not a "criminal", thank you.
Ok, so that's what happened. I left Magic for seven years when vintage was still kicking, so I didn't know that.
However, it can't explain everything... If the P9 was instantly sold, it means that there were buyers to buy and play this very P9. Thus the number of players shouldn't have been decreasing.
As for the "pride of ownership", it covers different feelings. First : I'm proud to own my deck that I built myself. Second : I'm proud to own that expensive card that you can't afford. I think that one shouldn't have its place in a game (but agains, it's my idealistic and personal opinion)
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins