None of these reactions seem logical at all. You're telling me the only thing keeping you in Legacy was playing in 1-2 opens per year and watching it on twitch? I mean if you go by viewer numbers SCG should drop MtG and start doing Hearthstone tournaments by that logic. There is still 5K's every single week, you act like 1st place prize money was a legitimate common occurrence for you to keep playing. There is more legacy tournaments than ever now and you're burning your cards because they won't show games on twitch?
At this moment, I'm cancelling an order of cards from SCG, and looking at other vendors.
Same here. And I LOATHE to do it because I order almost all of my sealed product from SCG because of their Sunday Legacy coverage. But this announcement coming is such an insult to their customer base that I cannot support them until they realize their mistake in abandoning a significant portion of their fan and customer base. SCG and WOTC have been pushing Standard to the absolute extreme and if things keep going this way I'll likely stop playing Magic for good. Standard has been abysmal the last few years. I don't know if I could survive another year of Mono-Black Devotion versus Mono-Blue Devotion metagame where one or two decks just dominate the field.
Between the insane decision to force all Pro Tours to Standard (which was hated so much that Wizards backtracked and put one Modern Pro Tour) and having Standard sets rotate out more quickly. And now SCG emphasizing Standard far more than all other formats. It seems like WOTC is beginning the next stage of its transformation of MTG by focusing everything on Standard. Theros and Khans must have made more money for SCG than their singles market. How long until SCG or WOTC or both are only doing Standard and Limited tournaments? One or two years I'd say tops unless something dramatic happens (like abolishing the Reserved List or Wizards breaking off from Hasbro).
At this point does anyone have any confidence in Modern as a format at all? We just had the largest Legacy tournament of all time, and one of the largest MTG tournaments ever, and according to WOTC the single highest weekend turnout for MTG tournaments in the game's history. The response is to reduce Legacy coverage to next-to-nothing and push Standard by SCG. And this is right after WOTC announced that they'd be heavily pushing Standard even trying to permanently end Modern as a Pro Tour Format.
My guess is Hasbro has laid down the law. Standard is to be pushed and occasionally Limited. And SCG now knows if they want to try to become the official Grand Prix and Pro Tour coverage team that they better push Standard, Standard, and more Standard. We know that SCG wants to produce more Grand Prix and even Pro Tour coverage. And if Wizards (Hasbro) only cares about Standard then making only Standard Opens is likely the best way to get Wizard's attention.
Lastly I love the grief that people were giving SCG employees on social media. And then the SCG employees denying that this was a poor decision. Maybe they'll make a concession like Wizards did with their one Modern Pro Tour. But if SCG wants to cover Pro Tours and Grand Prix events for WOTC officially then I doubt that will ever care about Legacy or even Modern if WOTC fires GGsLive and give SCG a shot at folding their production outfit into WOTC.
I agree with this pretty strongly man. Id love to play Legacy since its probably one of the few formats that contains MTG's variance pretty well and it represents the most decks and strategies. I dont understand how Standard brings in so much money compared to Limited. Limited brings in the most money since thats how they sell packs. I dont get either how Standard really sells the game better than Legacy. With Legacy anyone could bring any deck to a MTG tournament and play. Even people who just play commander could show up to a Legacy tournament. The Reserved List is one big double edged sword. The Legacy cards are going to crash in value some day. Either from the death of legacy or the cards getting so expensive to where there will be more counterfeiting that will crash the prices. WoTC should take cards off the list and slowly reprint them since store owners will have to cut their loses at some point either way. I have a terrible feeling that what will happen is that WoTC will reprint the cards not on the reserve list that were important from Legacy for Modern like Force of Will and what not and let the format die, if we are lucky at that. Or maybe they will just feed Modern with the standard garbage, who knows.
And I really hate Modern. It might be better with standard but its not really that great since its just a format with a bunch of watered down legacy decks and none of the good Legacy cards that are super skill intensive and make the format really interesting. I dont like either how WoTC doesnt know how the format should be. They dont like combo since its not good for spectators and then allow a bunch of turn 4 combo kills, sometimes turns 2-3 with things like Gouyos Vengence and Jeskai Ascendency it makes no sense. To me Modern feels like where all the standard all-stars went to die. Plus the format suffers the drawbacks of having to keep continuously banning things. We are at the point to where in Legacy that outside of Treasure Cruise, that cards could keep coming off. With Modern, I can imagine them going as far to start banning things like Snapcaster or Lightning Bolt because they might make the format too stale since the format doesnt have any cards that really check and balance anything. Plus Modern is overpriced for an eternal format. Most decks are half the price of Legacy decks and sets like Modern Masters do jack **** for the format since the cards barely move in price and they only move for a short period of time. Tarmogoyf is still $200, MM did absolutely nothing to change that.
I dont understand the people who constantly want to defend WoTC/SCG either. Those people sound like they work for the damn company since they are like "oh but its better business for WoTc and SCG", yeah no **** man thats why they did it, but your not part of their company and that doesnt benefit you so why would you want that to happen? MTG is at its peak in popularity and I dont see the game dying or anything, but at the same time, nothing lasts forever. I really feel for you that these types of things are going to make the game take a nose dive at some point. Who knows when, but it feels like its coming at some point.
Yeah, you don't understand Modern at all. You are just spouting stereotypes about the format.
And you do with your glorious one liners? Modern is overrated. If the reversed list didnt exist it would probably be less popular than legacy.
At this moment, I'm cancelling an order of cards from SCG, and looking at other vendors.
Same here. And I LOATHE to do it because I order almost all of my sealed product from SCG because of their Sunday Legacy coverage. But this announcement coming is such an insult to their customer base that I cannot support them until they realize their mistake in abandoning a significant portion of their fan and customer base. SCG and WOTC have been pushing Standard to the absolute extreme and if things keep going this way I'll likely stop playing Magic for good. Standard has been abysmal the last few years. I don't know if I could survive another year of Mono-Black Devotion versus Mono-Blue Devotion metagame where one or two decks just dominate the field.
Between the insane decision to force all Pro Tours to Standard (which was hated so much that Wizards backtracked and put one Modern Pro Tour) and having Standard sets rotate out more quickly. And now SCG emphasizing Standard far more than all other formats. It seems like WOTC is beginning the next stage of its transformation of MTG by focusing everything on Standard. Theros and Khans must have made more money for SCG than their singles market. How long until SCG or WOTC or both are only doing Standard and Limited tournaments? One or two years I'd say tops unless something dramatic happens (like abolishing the Reserved List or Wizards breaking off from Hasbro).
At this point does anyone have any confidence in Modern as a format at all? We just had the largest Legacy tournament of all time, and one of the largest MTG tournaments ever, and according to WOTC the single highest weekend turnout for MTG tournaments in the game's history. The response is to reduce Legacy coverage to next-to-nothing and push Standard by SCG. And this is right after WOTC announced that they'd be heavily pushing Standard even trying to permanently end Modern as a Pro Tour Format.
My guess is Hasbro has laid down the law. Standard is to be pushed and occasionally Limited. And SCG now knows if they want to try to become the official Grand Prix and Pro Tour coverage team that they better push Standard, Standard, and more Standard. We know that SCG wants to produce more Grand Prix and even Pro Tour coverage. And if Wizards (Hasbro) only cares about Standard then making only Standard Opens is likely the best way to get Wizard's attention.
Lastly I love the grief that people were giving SCG employees on social media. And then the SCG employees denying that this was a poor decision. Maybe they'll make a concession like Wizards did with their one Modern Pro Tour. But if SCG wants to cover Pro Tours and Grand Prix events for WOTC officially then I doubt that will ever care about Legacy or even Modern if WOTC fires GGsLive and give SCG a shot at folding their production outfit into WOTC.
I agree with this pretty strongly man. Id love to play Legacy since its probably one of the few formats that contains MTG's variance pretty well and it represents the most decks and strategies. I dont understand how Standard brings in so much money compared to Limited. Limited brings in the most money since thats how they sell packs. I dont get either how Standard really sells the game better than Legacy. With Legacy anyone could bring any deck to a MTG tournament and play. Even people who just play commander could show up to a Legacy tournament. The Reserved List is one big double edged sword. The Legacy cards are going to crash in value some day. Either from the death of legacy or the cards getting so expensive to where there will be more counterfeiting that will crash the prices. WoTC should take cards off the list and slowly reprint them since store owners will have to cut their loses at some point either way. I have a terrible feeling that what will happen is that WoTC will reprint the cards not on the reserve list that were important from Legacy for Modern like Force of Will and what not and let the format die, if we are lucky at that. Or maybe they will just feed Modern with the standard garbage, who knows.
And I really hate Modern. It might be better with standard but its not really that great since its just a format with a bunch of watered down legacy decks and none of the good Legacy cards that are super skill intensive and make the format really interesting. I dont like either how WoTC doesnt know how the format should be. They dont like combo since its not good for spectators and then allow a bunch of turn 4 combo kills, sometimes turns 2-3 with things like Gouyos Vengence and Jeskai Ascendency it makes no sense. To me Modern feels like where all the standard all-stars went to die. Plus the format suffers the drawbacks of having to keep continuously banning things. We are at the point to where in Legacy that outside of Treasure Cruise, that cards could keep coming off. With Modern, I can imagine them going as far to start banning things like Snapcaster or Lightning Bolt because they might make the format too stale since the format doesnt have any cards that really check and balance anything. Plus Modern is overpriced for an eternal format. Most decks are half the price of Legacy decks and sets like Modern Masters do jack **** for the format since the cards barely move in price and they only move for a short period of time. Tarmogoyf is still $200, MM did absolutely nothing to change that.
I dont understand the people who constantly want to defend WoTC/SCG either. Those people sound like they work for the damn company since they are like "oh but its better business for WoTc and SCG", yeah no **** man thats why they did it, but your not part of their company and that doesnt benefit you so why would you want that to happen? MTG is at its peak in popularity and I dont see the game dying or anything, but at the same time, nothing lasts forever. I really feel for you that these types of things are going to make the game take a nose dive at some point. Who knows when, but it feels like its coming at some point.
Yeah, you don't understand Modern at all. You are just spouting stereotypes about the format.
And you do with your glorious one liners? Modern is overrated. If the reversed list didnt exist it would probably be less popular than legacy.
Mere speculation. I am not trying to compare Modern and Legacy. However, some things that you said aren't true.
1. Wizards is not against turn 3 combos in Modern. It is against consistent turn 3 combos that see significant amounts of play. Goryo's Vengeance isn't consistent and it sees little play. Jeskai Ascendancy sees little play.
2. Modern is not where Standard All-stars go to die any more than Legacy is where Extended decks used to go to die.
3. Modern banned 1 card in the past 1 and a half years. It is not continuous.
4. Wizards doesn't arbitrarily ban cards anymore. Yes, there are still several cards that were banned earlier that have no reason to be banned, but they stopped banning cards for arbitrary reasons and just to shake up the format. Lightning Bolt and Snapcaster Mage certainly aren't getting banned.
5. Modern is not overpriced for an Eternal format. In Legacy UR Delver is about $1900. In Modern it is about $500. Yes, the most expensive Legacy decks cost about twice as much as the most expensive Modern decks. However, the average cost for Legacy is much less than the average cost of Modern. Also, even if Legacy cost twice as much as Modern, that would be fair as Legacy is a little less than twice as big as Modern in terms of card pool.
Same here. And I LOATHE to do it because I order almost all of my sealed product from SCG because of their Sunday Legacy coverage. But this announcement coming is such an insult to their customer base that I cannot support them until they realize their mistake in abandoning a significant portion of their fan and customer base. SCG and WOTC have been pushing Standard to the absolute extreme and if things keep going this way I'll likely stop playing Magic for good. Standard has been abysmal the last few years. I don't know if I could survive another year of Mono-Black Devotion versus Mono-Blue Devotion metagame where one or two decks just dominate the field.
Between the insane decision to force all Pro Tours to Standard (which was hated so much that Wizards backtracked and put one Modern Pro Tour) and having Standard sets rotate out more quickly. And now SCG emphasizing Standard far more than all other formats. It seems like WOTC is beginning the next stage of its transformation of MTG by focusing everything on Standard. Theros and Khans must have made more money for SCG than their singles market. How long until SCG or WOTC or both are only doing Standard and Limited tournaments? One or two years I'd say tops unless something dramatic happens (like abolishing the Reserved List or Wizards breaking off from Hasbro).
At this point does anyone have any confidence in Modern as a format at all? We just had the largest Legacy tournament of all time, and one of the largest MTG tournaments ever, and according to WOTC the single highest weekend turnout for MTG tournaments in the game's history. The response is to reduce Legacy coverage to next-to-nothing and push Standard by SCG. And this is right after WOTC announced that they'd be heavily pushing Standard even trying to permanently end Modern as a Pro Tour Format.
My guess is Hasbro has laid down the law. Standard is to be pushed and occasionally Limited. And SCG now knows if they want to try to become the official Grand Prix and Pro Tour coverage team that they better push Standard, Standard, and more Standard. We know that SCG wants to produce more Grand Prix and even Pro Tour coverage. And if Wizards (Hasbro) only cares about Standard then making only Standard Opens is likely the best way to get Wizard's attention.
Lastly I love the grief that people were giving SCG employees on social media. And then the SCG employees denying that this was a poor decision. Maybe they'll make a concession like Wizards did with their one Modern Pro Tour. But if SCG wants to cover Pro Tours and Grand Prix events for WOTC officially then I doubt that will ever care about Legacy or even Modern if WOTC fires GGsLive and give SCG a shot at folding their production outfit into WOTC.
I agree with this pretty strongly man. Id love to play Legacy since its probably one of the few formats that contains MTG's variance pretty well and it represents the most decks and strategies. I dont understand how Standard brings in so much money compared to Limited. Limited brings in the most money since thats how they sell packs. I dont get either how Standard really sells the game better than Legacy. With Legacy anyone could bring any deck to a MTG tournament and play. Even people who just play commander could show up to a Legacy tournament. The Reserved List is one big double edged sword. The Legacy cards are going to crash in value some day. Either from the death of legacy or the cards getting so expensive to where there will be more counterfeiting that will crash the prices. WoTC should take cards off the list and slowly reprint them since store owners will have to cut their loses at some point either way. I have a terrible feeling that what will happen is that WoTC will reprint the cards not on the reserve list that were important from Legacy for Modern like Force of Will and what not and let the format die, if we are lucky at that. Or maybe they will just feed Modern with the standard garbage, who knows.
And I really hate Modern. It might be better with standard but its not really that great since its just a format with a bunch of watered down legacy decks and none of the good Legacy cards that are super skill intensive and make the format really interesting. I dont like either how WoTC doesnt know how the format should be. They dont like combo since its not good for spectators and then allow a bunch of turn 4 combo kills, sometimes turns 2-3 with things like Gouyos Vengence and Jeskai Ascendency it makes no sense. To me Modern feels like where all the standard all-stars went to die. Plus the format suffers the drawbacks of having to keep continuously banning things. We are at the point to where in Legacy that outside of Treasure Cruise, that cards could keep coming off. With Modern, I can imagine them going as far to start banning things like Snapcaster or Lightning Bolt because they might make the format too stale since the format doesnt have any cards that really check and balance anything. Plus Modern is overpriced for an eternal format. Most decks are half the price of Legacy decks and sets like Modern Masters do jack **** for the format since the cards barely move in price and they only move for a short period of time. Tarmogoyf is still $200, MM did absolutely nothing to change that.
I dont understand the people who constantly want to defend WoTC/SCG either. Those people sound like they work for the damn company since they are like "oh but its better business for WoTc and SCG", yeah no **** man thats why they did it, but your not part of their company and that doesnt benefit you so why would you want that to happen? MTG is at its peak in popularity and I dont see the game dying or anything, but at the same time, nothing lasts forever. I really feel for you that these types of things are going to make the game take a nose dive at some point. Who knows when, but it feels like its coming at some point.
Yeah, you don't understand Modern at all. You are just spouting stereotypes about the format.
And you do with your glorious one liners? Modern is overrated. If the reversed list didnt exist it would probably be less popular than legacy.
Mere speculation. I am not trying to compare Modern and Legacy. However, some things that you said aren't true.
1. Wizards is not against turn 3 combos in Modern. It is against consistent turn 3 combos that see significant amounts of play. Goryo's Vengeance isn't consistent and it sees little play. Jeskai Ascendancy sees little play.
2. Modern is not where Standard All-stars go to die any more than Legacy is where Extended decks used to go to die.
3. Modern banned 1 card in the past 1 and a half years. It is not continuous.
4. Wizards doesn't arbitrarily ban cards anymore. Yes, there are still several cards that were banned earlier that have no reason to be banned, but they stopped banning cards for arbitrary reasons and just to shake up the format. Lightning Bolt and Snapcaster Mage certainly aren't getting banned.
5. Modern is not overpriced for an Eternal format. In Legacy UR Delver is about $1900. In Modern it is about $500. Yes, the most expensive Legacy decks cost about twice as much as the most expensive Modern decks. However, the average cost for Legacy is much less than the average cost of Modern. Also, even if Legacy cost twice as much as Modern, that would be fair as Legacy is a little less than twice as big as Modern in terms of card pool.
UR Delver is one deck thats midly inexpensive. Every other Modern deck is way more expensive and even the decks that arent as good cost as much as a good standard deck. Yeah, you can "play modern" with some inexpensive underwhelming deck like Merfolk or Mono White Hatebears, but those arent interesting or good decks. Doesnt sound like a good format if forcing myself to play it involves playing with a lower tier linear deck.
Theres many cards on the modern ban list that have no solid reasons of beind there. Theres nothing ban worthy about Deathrite Shaman. Sure, it was in a lot of decks, but thats not a good reason to ban a card. Cantrips being banned so combo isnt as good is also poor ban decisions. Making combo have more variance based instead of making the format have less variance all around is just a bad idea. I am sure I could go into more reasons why a lot of modern bans arent good but that is just a waste of time if you dont want to listen anyway.
The thing is, there is nothing about Modern that really makes it more interesting than Legacy. The format is mainly midrange battles involving worser versions of Legacy cards. Instead of having Counterspell and Daze, your playing with way worse cards like Remand and Cryptic Command. Every type of strategy is represented in Legacy, while in Modern everything is mostly just very creature heavy. What can I play that isnt midrange in Modern? Affinity or Boogles? No thanks, thats not much better than previous standards that had similar decks.
Bottom line, most people play Modern because its cheaper than Legacy, not because the format is a real alternative. If Legacy cards costed the same price, I do not think Modern would be remotely popular. The reserved list dictates too much of what players can really do. Id like if there was a format that was actually much different than Legacy, not a version to where you play similar but weaker and less strategies.
Same here. And I LOATHE to do it because I order almost all of my sealed product from SCG because of their Sunday Legacy coverage. But this announcement coming is such an insult to their customer base that I cannot support them until they realize their mistake in abandoning a significant portion of their fan and customer base. SCG and WOTC have been pushing Standard to the absolute extreme and if things keep going this way I'll likely stop playing Magic for good. Standard has been abysmal the last few years. I don't know if I could survive another year of Mono-Black Devotion versus Mono-Blue Devotion metagame where one or two decks just dominate the field.
Between the insane decision to force all Pro Tours to Standard (which was hated so much that Wizards backtracked and put one Modern Pro Tour) and having Standard sets rotate out more quickly. And now SCG emphasizing Standard far more than all other formats. It seems like WOTC is beginning the next stage of its transformation of MTG by focusing everything on Standard. Theros and Khans must have made more money for SCG than their singles market. How long until SCG or WOTC or both are only doing Standard and Limited tournaments? One or two years I'd say tops unless something dramatic happens (like abolishing the Reserved List or Wizards breaking off from Hasbro).
At this point does anyone have any confidence in Modern as a format at all? We just had the largest Legacy tournament of all time, and one of the largest MTG tournaments ever, and according to WOTC the single highest weekend turnout for MTG tournaments in the game's history. The response is to reduce Legacy coverage to next-to-nothing and push Standard by SCG. And this is right after WOTC announced that they'd be heavily pushing Standard even trying to permanently end Modern as a Pro Tour Format.
My guess is Hasbro has laid down the law. Standard is to be pushed and occasionally Limited. And SCG now knows if they want to try to become the official Grand Prix and Pro Tour coverage team that they better push Standard, Standard, and more Standard. We know that SCG wants to produce more Grand Prix and even Pro Tour coverage. And if Wizards (Hasbro) only cares about Standard then making only Standard Opens is likely the best way to get Wizard's attention.
Lastly I love the grief that people were giving SCG employees on social media. And then the SCG employees denying that this was a poor decision. Maybe they'll make a concession like Wizards did with their one Modern Pro Tour. But if SCG wants to cover Pro Tours and Grand Prix events for WOTC officially then I doubt that will ever care about Legacy or even Modern if WOTC fires GGsLive and give SCG a shot at folding their production outfit into WOTC.
I agree with this pretty strongly man. Id love to play Legacy since its probably one of the few formats that contains MTG's variance pretty well and it represents the most decks and strategies. I dont understand how Standard brings in so much money compared to Limited. Limited brings in the most money since thats how they sell packs. I dont get either how Standard really sells the game better than Legacy. With Legacy anyone could bring any deck to a MTG tournament and play. Even people who just play commander could show up to a Legacy tournament. The Reserved List is one big double edged sword. The Legacy cards are going to crash in value some day. Either from the death of legacy or the cards getting so expensive to where there will be more counterfeiting that will crash the prices. WoTC should take cards off the list and slowly reprint them since store owners will have to cut their loses at some point either way. I have a terrible feeling that what will happen is that WoTC will reprint the cards not on the reserve list that were important from Legacy for Modern like Force of Will and what not and let the format die, if we are lucky at that. Or maybe they will just feed Modern with the standard garbage, who knows.
And I really hate Modern. It might be better with standard but its not really that great since its just a format with a bunch of watered down legacy decks and none of the good Legacy cards that are super skill intensive and make the format really interesting. I dont like either how WoTC doesnt know how the format should be. They dont like combo since its not good for spectators and then allow a bunch of turn 4 combo kills, sometimes turns 2-3 with things like Gouyos Vengence and Jeskai Ascendency it makes no sense. To me Modern feels like where all the standard all-stars went to die. Plus the format suffers the drawbacks of having to keep continuously banning things. We are at the point to where in Legacy that outside of Treasure Cruise, that cards could keep coming off. With Modern, I can imagine them going as far to start banning things like Snapcaster or Lightning Bolt because they might make the format too stale since the format doesnt have any cards that really check and balance anything. Plus Modern is overpriced for an eternal format. Most decks are half the price of Legacy decks and sets like Modern Masters do jack **** for the format since the cards barely move in price and they only move for a short period of time. Tarmogoyf is still $200, MM did absolutely nothing to change that.
I dont understand the people who constantly want to defend WoTC/SCG either. Those people sound like they work for the damn company since they are like "oh but its better business for WoTc and SCG", yeah no **** man thats why they did it, but your not part of their company and that doesnt benefit you so why would you want that to happen? MTG is at its peak in popularity and I dont see the game dying or anything, but at the same time, nothing lasts forever. I really feel for you that these types of things are going to make the game take a nose dive at some point. Who knows when, but it feels like its coming at some point.
Yeah, you don't understand Modern at all. You are just spouting stereotypes about the format.
And you do with your glorious one liners? Modern is overrated. If the reversed list didnt exist it would probably be less popular than legacy.
Mere speculation. I am not trying to compare Modern and Legacy. However, some things that you said aren't true.
1. Wizards is not against turn 3 combos in Modern. It is against consistent turn 3 combos that see significant amounts of play. Goryo's Vengeance isn't consistent and it sees little play. Jeskai Ascendancy sees little play.
2. Modern is not where Standard All-stars go to die any more than Legacy is where Extended decks used to go to die.
3. Modern banned 1 card in the past 1 and a half years. It is not continuous.
4. Wizards doesn't arbitrarily ban cards anymore. Yes, there are still several cards that were banned earlier that have no reason to be banned, but they stopped banning cards for arbitrary reasons and just to shake up the format. Lightning Bolt and Snapcaster Mage certainly aren't getting banned.
5. Modern is not overpriced for an Eternal format. In Legacy UR Delver is about $1900. In Modern it is about $500. Yes, the most expensive Legacy decks cost about twice as much as the most expensive Modern decks. However, the average cost for Legacy is much less than the average cost of Modern. Also, even if Legacy cost twice as much as Modern, that would be fair as Legacy is a little less than twice as big as Modern in terms of card pool.
UR Delver is one deck thats midly inexpensive. Every other Modern deck is way more expensive and even the decks that arent as good cost as much as a good standard deck. Yeah, you can "play modern" with some inexpensive underwhelming deck like Merfolk or Mono White Hatebears, but those arent interesting or good decks. Doesnt sound like a good format if forcing myself to play it involves playing with a lower tier linear deck.
Theres many cards on the modern ban list that have no solid reasons of beind there. Theres nothing ban worthy about Deathrite Shaman. Sure, it was in a lot of decks, but thats not a good reason to ban a card. Cantrips being banned so combo isnt as good is also poor ban decisions. Making combo have more variance based instead of making the format have less variance all around is just a bad idea. I am sure I could go into more reasons why a lot of modern bans arent good but that is just a waste of time if you dont want to listen anyway.
The thing is, there is nothing about Modern that really makes it more interesting than Legacy. The format is mainly midrange battles involving worser versions of Legacy cards. Instead of having Counterspell and Daze, your playing with way worse cards like Remand and Cryptic Command. Every type of strategy is represented in Legacy, while in Modern everything is mostly just very creature heavy. What can I play that isnt midrange in Modern? Affinity or Boogles? No thanks, thats not much better than previous standards that had similar decks.
Bottom line, most people play Modern because its cheaper than Legacy, not because the format is a real alternative. If Legacy cards costed the same price, I do not think Modern would be remotely popular. The reserved list dictates too much of what players can really do. Id like if there was a format that was actually much different than Legacy, not a version to where you play similar but weaker and less strategies.
FWIW, I've played Modern and Legacy. There is no comparison between the two. I have since quit modern, sold all my shocks and play only Legacy and Standard. And the only reason I play Standard is because I have a lot of great friends who play FNM and I enjoy the night out with them. Otherwise, I wouldn't touch Standard. Legacy I would play as long as there's a place to play. Modern isn't even a thought for me.
And let's be honest. Modern was created because of the prohibitive cost of Legacy. Had their been no RL, Modern would not exist. For somebody who want's a powerful format, there is nothing for them in Modern, which is just slightly stronger than Standard.
As for the announcement, not much I can do about it. It is what it is. As long as I can still play Legacy on Saturdays I don't really care all that much.
I agree with this pretty strongly man. Id love to play Legacy since its probably one of the few formats that contains MTG's variance pretty well and it represents the most decks and strategies. I dont understand how Standard brings in so much money compared to Limited. Limited brings in the most money since thats how they sell packs. I dont get either how Standard really sells the game better than Legacy. With Legacy anyone could bring any deck to a MTG tournament and play. Even people who just play commander could show up to a Legacy tournament. The Reserved List is one big double edged sword. The Legacy cards are going to crash in value some day. Either from the death of legacy or the cards getting so expensive to where there will be more counterfeiting that will crash the prices. WoTC should take cards off the list and slowly reprint them since store owners will have to cut their loses at some point either way. I have a terrible feeling that what will happen is that WoTC will reprint the cards not on the reserve list that were important from Legacy for Modern like Force of Will and what not and let the format die, if we are lucky at that. Or maybe they will just feed Modern with the standard garbage, who knows.
And I really hate Modern. It might be better with standard but its not really that great since its just a format with a bunch of watered down legacy decks and none of the good Legacy cards that are super skill intensive and make the format really interesting. I dont like either how WoTC doesnt know how the format should be. They dont like combo since its not good for spectators and then allow a bunch of turn 4 combo kills, sometimes turns 2-3 with things like Gouyos Vengence and Jeskai Ascendency it makes no sense. To me Modern feels like where all the standard all-stars went to die. Plus the format suffers the drawbacks of having to keep continuously banning things. We are at the point to where in Legacy that outside of Treasure Cruise, that cards could keep coming off. With Modern, I can imagine them going as far to start banning things like Snapcaster or Lightning Bolt because they might make the format too stale since the format doesnt have any cards that really check and balance anything. Plus Modern is overpriced for an eternal format. Most decks are half the price of Legacy decks and sets like Modern Masters do jack **** for the format since the cards barely move in price and they only move for a short period of time. Tarmogoyf is still $200, MM did absolutely nothing to change that.
I dont understand the people who constantly want to defend WoTC/SCG either. Those people sound like they work for the damn company since they are like "oh but its better business for WoTc and SCG", yeah no **** man thats why they did it, but your not part of their company and that doesnt benefit you so why would you want that to happen? MTG is at its peak in popularity and I dont see the game dying or anything, but at the same time, nothing lasts forever. I really feel for you that these types of things are going to make the game take a nose dive at some point. Who knows when, but it feels like its coming at some point.
Yeah, you don't understand Modern at all. You are just spouting stereotypes about the format.
And you do with your glorious one liners? Modern is overrated. If the reversed list didnt exist it would probably be less popular than legacy.
Mere speculation. I am not trying to compare Modern and Legacy. However, some things that you said aren't true.
1. Wizards is not against turn 3 combos in Modern. It is against consistent turn 3 combos that see significant amounts of play. Goryo's Vengeance isn't consistent and it sees little play. Jeskai Ascendancy sees little play.
2. Modern is not where Standard All-stars go to die any more than Legacy is where Extended decks used to go to die.
3. Modern banned 1 card in the past 1 and a half years. It is not continuous.
4. Wizards doesn't arbitrarily ban cards anymore. Yes, there are still several cards that were banned earlier that have no reason to be banned, but they stopped banning cards for arbitrary reasons and just to shake up the format. Lightning Bolt and Snapcaster Mage certainly aren't getting banned.
5. Modern is not overpriced for an Eternal format. In Legacy UR Delver is about $1900. In Modern it is about $500. Yes, the most expensive Legacy decks cost about twice as much as the most expensive Modern decks. However, the average cost for Legacy is much less than the average cost of Modern. Also, even if Legacy cost twice as much as Modern, that would be fair as Legacy is a little less than twice as big as Modern in terms of card pool.
UR Delver is one deck thats midly inexpensive. Every other Modern deck is way more expensive and even the decks that arent as good cost as much as a good standard deck. Yeah, you can "play modern" with some inexpensive underwhelming deck like Merfolk or Mono White Hatebears, but those arent interesting or good decks. Doesnt sound like a good format if forcing myself to play it involves playing with a lower tier linear deck.
Delver, Burn, Affinity, Bogles, RG Tron, Amulet of Vigor, Summoning Trap Valakut, Ascendancy Combo, and Infect are all good decks that don't cost much. Also, with the exception of BGx Midrange, every Modern deck is significantly less expensive than most Legacy decks.
Theres many cards on the modern ban list that have no solid reasons of beind there. Theres nothing ban worthy about Deathrite Shaman. Sure, it was in a lot of decks, but thats not a good reason to ban a card.
Metagame dominance is a reason to ban a card. BGx Midrange had remained at 16% for almost a year. Every attempt to hate it out had failed. It was stifling the format.
Cantrips being banned so combo isnt as good is also poor ban decisions. Making combo have more variance based instead of making the format have less variance all around is just a bad idea. I am sure I could go into more reasons why a lot of modern bans arent good but that is just a waste of time if you dont want to listen anyway.
And making the format have decks that can't beat combo because they don't run the free counterspell that forces you to run a large amount of blue cards is any better? Yes, maybe the cantrips shouldn't be banned. And yes, the format has many cards that shouldn't be banned. I am against a lot of the banlist. For reference, here is what my proposed banlist for Modern is
Yes, many cards in Modern shouldn't be banned. But making it Legacy Lite is not want most people want from Modern. Some people don't want broken Magic. some people want to be able to race a combo deck with an aggro deck. Some people want to be able to play their spells without fear of a turn 0 counterspell. Some people want to be able to play lands without the fear of Stifle on the fetchland followed by a Wasteland next turn. Some people don't want to play in formats that are 80% blue.
The thing is, there is nothing about Modern that really makes it more interesting than Legacy. The format is mainly midrange battles involving worser versions of Legacy cards. Instead of having Counterspell and Daze, your playing with way worse cards like Remand and Cryptic Command. Every type of strategy is represented in Legacy, while in Modern everything is mostly just very creature heavy. What can I play that isnt midrange in Modern? Affinity or Boogles? No thanks, thats not much better than previous standards that had similar decks.
Let's see, here are the decks that you can play that aren't Midrange in Modern (I am only listing the decks that qualified for Modern's Established and Proven forums for the last quarter, so Ascendancy Combo isn't included under Combo).
Tempo: UR Delver, RUG Delver, WUR Delver
Aggro: Affinity, Bogles, Infect, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Domain Zoo, Hatebears, Death and Taxes, Soul Sisters
Control: WUR, UW, UB Tezzeret, UW Tron, Mono U Tron, 8-Rack, 4C Gifts, Blue Moon
Combo: Scapeshift, Kiki Pod, Ad Nauseum, Amulet of Vigor, Living End, Griselbrand Reanimator, Summoning Trap Valakut, arguably RG Tron, certain versions of UR Twin
Bottom line, most people play Modern because its cheaper than Legacy, not because the format is a real alternative. If Legacy cards costed the same price, I do not think Modern would be remotely popular. The reserved list dictates too much of what players can really do. Id like if there was a format that was actually much different than Legacy, not a version to where you play similar but weaker and less strategies.
And if everyone could play Vintage, Legacy would die off. That doesn't make Legacy just a worse version of Vintage.
UR Delver is one deck thats midly inexpensive. Every other Modern deck is way more expensive and even the decks that arent as good cost as much as a good standard deck. Yeah, you can "play modern" with some inexpensive underwhelming deck like Merfolk or Mono White Hatebears, but those arent interesting or good decks. Doesnt sound like a good format if forcing myself to play it involves playing with a lower tier linear deck.
Odd you dismiss "Monowhite" when a Monowhite deck did, in fact, just make top 8 at GP Madrid. I suppose it's not fair to call Martyr Proc "Death & Taxes" but the deck's actually slightly cheaper to put together than UR Delver is.
Theres many cards on the modern ban list that have no solid reasons of beind there. Theres nothing ban worthy about Deathrite Shaman. Sure, it was in a lot of decks, but thats not a good reason to ban a card.
It wasn't banned for being in a lot of decks. It was banned because the card was too good. The fact you think there are "no solid reasons" for Deathrite Shaman to be banned just shows you really don't know that much about the format you’re talking about.
The funny thing is, there actually are cards that just don't make sense to be banned. I'm utterly baffled that you pointed to Deathrite Shaman (a card that 100% deserves to be banned) rather than something like Sword of the Meek or Ancestral Vision.
Cantrips being banned so combo isnt as good is also poor ban decisions. Making combo have more variance based instead of making the format have less variance all around is just a bad idea.
I don't see how it's a poor ban decision to try to balance things out so that some decks aren't completely overpowered, as combo decks were.
The thing is, there is nothing about Modern that really makes it more interesting than Legacy. The format is mainly midrange battles involving worser versions of Legacy cards. Instead of having Counterspell and Daze, your playing with way worse cards like Remand and Cryptic Command. Every type of strategy is represented in Legacy, while in Modern everything is mostly just very creature heavy. What can I play that isnt midrange in Modern? Affinity or Boogles? No thanks, thats not much better than previous standards that had similar decks.
Why don't you just look at the GP Madridd Top 8 for some nom-midrange decks? Plenty of non-Midrange there, including the two decks that were in the Finals of the whole thing (RUG Delver and Scapeshift).
Honestly, you're just spouting off a bunch of claims that just show you don't understand the format. You're sounding like that guy who says he doesn't want to play Legacy because all the decks kill on turn 1 or 2. It just shows lack of knowledge of what the format is actually like.
Bottom line, most people play Modern because its cheaper than Legacy, not because the format is a real alternative. If Legacy cards costed the same price, I do not think Modern would be remotely popular. The reserved list dictates too much of what players can really do. Id like if there was a format that was actually much different than Legacy, not a version to where you play similar but weaker and less strategies.
One can easily make the same basic argument about Vintage, that the only reason people played Legacy is because they can’t afford Vintage.
Look, I can understand not liking Modern. It definitely does have its share of issues (as does Legacy, for that matter). It's just that your specific complaints seem to indicate a lack of real knowledge about the format.
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously. Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously. Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
What are you talking about? Lots of people wanted that card banned. You're just straight-up denying reality with this claim. Weren't you just complaining about other people not knowing what they were talking about? Because you sure seem to not know what you're talking about here if you're making a claim as absurd as that.
Really, the only mistake made in banning Deathrite Shaman is that they didn't do it a year beforehand and made the wrong choice of targeting Bloodbraid Elf when the real problem was Deathrite Shaman.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
And all of the power cards are restricted, so it actually does balance itself out.
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
No dude i think your just insecure that you play modern over legacy and dont want to admit that it an inferior format. And how do I know that? You have to put it in your signature like its a fact. Nobody really cares if you believe that or not.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
The warning for trolling issued in this post applies to this post as well.
- Teia
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
No dude i think your just insecure that you play modern over legacy and dont want to admit that it an inferior format. And how do I know that? You have to put it in your signature like its a fact. Nobody really cares if you believe that or not.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
No, I play Modern because it is more fun. Legacy is broken Magic covered in blue. in Modern, things are fair. You still have diversity (though I would like more support for Control). You also have much more color diversity. Yes, Modern isn't perfect. I personally would have preferred Overextended, starting at Invasion. However, Legacy is not what I want. This has nothing to do with money. It is simply that I don't think that it is as much fun as Modern. This is the problem with so many of you Legacy players. You can't grasp that people want different things from the game from you. I don't want to play in a format with Wastelands and Brainstorms and True-Name Nemeses and Force of Wills and prison decks made completely out of lands and turn 2-3 combos. Deal with it.
Edit 1: Legacy really is different from Modern. Legacy has turn 1 combo decks, prison control decks, horribly broken Magic, and even the fair decks often need 1 mana board wipes and free counterspells to compete. Modern is not like that.
Edit 2: I notice how you haven't actually given a constructive argument in your favor. In fact, you have completely abandoned the parts of the conversation that you were losing. Please stop being a coward and actually have a constructive debate that does not involve you providing no support for your arguments and running away when things get tough.
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
No dude i think your just insecure that you play modern over legacy and dont want to admit that it an inferior format. And how do I know that? You have to put it in your signature like its a fact. Nobody really cares if you believe that or not.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
No, I play Modern because it is more fun. Legacy is broken Magic covered in blue. in Modern, things are fair. You still have diversity (though I would like more support for Control). You also have much more color diversity. Yes, Modern isn't perfect. I personally would have preferred Overextended, starting at Invasion. However, Legacy is not what I want. This has nothing to do with money. It is simply that I don't think that it is as much fun as Modern. This is the problem with so many of you Legacy players. You can't grasp that people want different things from the game from you. I don't want to play in a format with Wastelands and Brainstorms and True-Name Nemeses and Force of Wills and prison decks made completely out of lands and turn 2-3 combos. Deal with it.
Yeah sureee that is why you have the need to put it in your sig, so every single person on this forum needs to know exactly that your not wrong in anyway and your sooo right. Mr super serious here everyone, this guy must know his stuff since any reasonable person needs to sig their opinions. Your probably just scared since your probably just bad at Legacy so you have to go to sleep at night and cry about how you cant afford the format. How sad.
16% of the format is too much for modern so that's why deathrite was banned? 16% is laughable in terms of dominating a format. You would ban primeval titan in modern? I rest my case. You're in favor of banning a 6 drop that fetches 2 lands into play. That's the real hilarity. Your ego is gigantic because you think you are right no matter what another person says. Deathrite shaman is not broken. Rather the modern banned list is broken in that too many cards are banned there that shouldn't be and when you ban cards that don't really merit a ban you start going down a slippery slope of banning more cards that then become more powerful as a result of unnecessary bans. Deathrite shaman is one of those. Banned a whole lot of cards in modern until deathrite dominated and then they banned deathrite. It's the same argument in legacy. You ban everything until rebels is good and then you ban lin sivvi.
Things are more unfair in modern than legacy. You don't have force of will in that format. That's the main difference between legacy and modern. In legacy force polices the format. In modern? There's nothing like force there no disrupting shoal does not count. The cheapest countermagic is 1-2 mana and none of it is hard countermagic a la counterspell. The only 1 mana counter is spell snare, which is great or terrible depending on the metagame.
Another thing about your banned list, you banned batterskull but not stoneforge mystic. Stoneforge mystic is far better than anything on your list except skullclamp, hypergenesis, and blazing shoal. JTMS does not belong there. But I bet you're still just one of those people butthurt over cawblade. Cawblade is done and gone. Cawblade wasn't great due to JTMS it was great due to the white tinker that isn't on your hypothetical banlist. They banned JTMS just to be safe just like when they banned affinity out of standard where they banned a ton of cards to be safe they did the same with cawblade the only card they didn't ban that they probably could have was preordain. Preordain isn't on your list either. With your list people are still stoneforging up swords and wrecking face with them. They get preordain in fast combo and just as a very good combo enabler in general. Artifact bans could probably be unbanned in modern as the synergy that they have with affinity is very small they work with plating and that's about it since frogmite/myr enforcer got powercreeped out of existence.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
No dude i think your just insecure that you play modern over legacy and dont want to admit that it an inferior format. And how do I know that? You have to put it in your signature like its a fact. Nobody really cares if you believe that or not.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
No, I play Modern because it is more fun. Legacy is broken Magic covered in blue. in Modern, things are fair. You still have diversity (though I would like more support for Control). You also have much more color diversity. Yes, Modern isn't perfect. I personally would have preferred Overextended, starting at Invasion. However, Legacy is not what I want. This has nothing to do with money. It is simply that I don't think that it is as much fun as Modern. This is the problem with so many of you Legacy players. You can't grasp that people want different things from the game from you. I don't want to play in a format with Wastelands and Brainstorms and True-Name Nemeses and Force of Wills and prison decks made completely out of lands and turn 2-3 combos. Deal with it.
Yeah sureee that is why you have the need to put it in your sig, so every single person on this forum needs to know exactly that your not wrong in anyway and your sooo right. Mr super serious here everyone, this guy must know his stuff since any reasonable person needs to sig their opinions. Your probably just scared since your probably just bad at Legacy so you have to go to sleep at night and cry about how you cant afford the format. How sad.
I sig it because I am tired about arguing it with idiots like you. I am reporting you for flaming. Now leave this conversation to people with maturity who are willing to listen to other people's opinions and leave because you are a coward and you can't stand up to logic. You just have to dance around it like the arrogant fool you are because you can't wrap your mind around the fact that you could possibly be wrong.
Edit: You keep bringing up that I have it in my sig. The fact that it is in my sig does not make it any less true. Modern is diverse. Have you ever played the format? Or are you just trolling because you are too afraid to try new things? Legacy is going to die out. Then you can be content with refusing to join the Magic of the future and let the people with brains play.
Edit 2: You know, I used to be sad about not being able to afford a format. That format was Modern, not Legacy. I started playing competitively just so that I could play Modern. Legacy is not for me.
Edit 3: I can't believe that I wasted my 9000th post on a troll like you.
This is a simply unacceptable level of flaming and trolling. Suspension issued.
- Teia
I am really disappointed in what SCG is doing -- especially after attending GPNJ. 4000+ sat down to play a 2-day legacy event. That's such an accomplishment in the history of Magic, let alone Legacy. To turn around and heavily reduce exposure of Legacy moving forward bothers me. I also like watching the legacy stream from time to time.
As a player who really plays only competitive legacy, I'm very upset. I enjoy the format immensely. I don't like where the game is going (as a whole). I also despise 2-day events. I do not want to see 15-rounders being the "new normal". I hope the bigger shops around me fill in the void for 5 to 9 round legacy events. Mini GPs for a SCG just isn't worth it. If this situation doesn't change, I'd cash out for good.
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10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Im not going to respond to either of these people above me since anyone who thinks UW or Reanimator is a real deck in modern doesnt know what they are talking about and I cannot take seriously.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
Same with thinking that Deathrite Shaman is "too good". There wasnt anyone who even wanted it banned and now that its banned, it magically becomes unbalanced.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
No dude i think your just insecure that you play modern over legacy and dont want to admit that it an inferior format. And how do I know that? You have to put it in your signature like its a fact. Nobody really cares if you believe that or not.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
No, I play Modern because it is more fun. Legacy is broken Magic covered in blue. in Modern, things are fair. You still have diversity (though I would like more support for Control). You also have much more color diversity. Yes, Modern isn't perfect. I personally would have preferred Overextended, starting at Invasion. However, Legacy is not what I want. This has nothing to do with money. It is simply that I don't think that it is as much fun as Modern. This is the problem with so many of you Legacy players. You can't grasp that people want different things from the game from you. I don't want to play in a format with Wastelands and Brainstorms and True-Name Nemeses and Force of Wills and prison decks made completely out of lands and turn 2-3 combos. Deal with it.
Yeah sureee that is why you have the need to put it in your sig, so every single person on this forum needs to know exactly that your not wrong in anyway and your sooo right. Mr super serious here everyone, this guy must know his stuff since any reasonable person needs to sig their opinions. Your probably just scared since your probably just bad at Legacy so you have to go to sleep at night and cry about how you cant afford the format. How sad.
This is really unfair. Look buddy, I also think that Legacy is significantly more fun than Modern. But I also understand that my definition of "fun" magic doesn't match up with literally every other player in existence. Are there SOME Modern players would rather be playing Legacy? Sure. But is it possible that some Modern players actually like Modern? Of course!
I am really disappointed in what SCG is doing -- especially after attending GPNJ. 4000+ sat down to play a 2-day legacy event. That's such an accomplishment in the history of Magic, let alone Legacy. To turn around and heavily reduce exposure of Legacy moving forward bothers me. I also like watching the legacy stream from time to time.
I didn't attend GPNJ, but I have to agree with this sentiment. Legacy is a great format, and it would be a shame for coverage to disappear. It's bad enough that Legacy games are difficult to find in the first place, but having high profile events and decent coverage allows people to stay connected to Legacy, even when they can't play.
On some level, players aspire to play Legacy. People play Standard because it's easy to find games and community. But eventually, when those players get tired of rotation, they switch to Modern, because it's a cheap(er), non-rotating, supported format. But beyond Modern, Legacy is really the holy grail of "reasonably accessible" Magic. It's diverse. Its card pool is rooted with Magic history. The format is internally balanced. But most of all, the players that play it, are committed to it. The chances are good that those players have significant personal investment in both their decks and event participation, and they take pride in the game in ways that other players don't.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
Not only is this insulting, but it's not even accurate. Modern is different than Legacy. Please deal with it.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
16% of the format is too much for modern so that's why deathrite was banned? 16% is laughable in terms of dominating a format.
Not really. It is all personal opinion. I can see why some people disagree with me. However, I personally think that, in retrospect, it was too good.
You would ban primeval titan in modern? I rest my case. You're in favor of banning a 6 drop that fetches 2 lands into play. That's the real hilarity.
Primeval Titan is banned in my proposed list because of Cloudpost. I personally do not support killing decks with bans and would prefer if they were weakened instead. Primeval Titan with Green Sun's Zenith and Cloudpost was amazing before the Cloudpost ban. It forced decks to win before turn 5 because 12-Post was able to consistently get a turn 5 hardcasted Emrakul. It basically killed Midrange. There are many cards that could have been banned. Wizards decided to go with Cloudpost. I want the format's power-level to be slightly higher than it is now so I want Primeval Titan banned instead.
Your ego is gigantic because you think you are right no matter what another person says.
Many times in this conversation I have acknowledged the other point of view. I am not egocentric this time. I fully recognize that Legacy is a great format. I fail to see how disagreeing about whether Modern is, quoting JacetheMindFoo, "a turd sandwich" and refusing to accept an opinion about said format from someone who doesn't play it is egocentric.
Deathrite shaman is not broken. Rather the modern banned list is broken in that too many cards are banned there that shouldn't be and when you ban cards that don't really merit a ban you start going down a slippery slope of banning more cards that then become more powerful as a result of unnecessary bans. Deathrite shaman is one of those. Banned a whole lot of cards in modern until deathrite dominated and then they banned deathrite. It's the same argument in legacy. You ban everything until rebels is good and then you ban lin sivvi.
Not really. Deathrite Shaman came out after they did those bannings. After that, Jund dominated until Bloodbraid Elf was banned. Then a few months later BG Rock and Jund started dominating again. Notice that I don't have Bloodbraid Elf on my banned list. This is because I think that Deathrite Shaman is what should have been banned when Jund was 30% of the meta and winning every tournament. Wizards only refused to because Deathrite Shaman was getting people to buy more booster packs.
Things are more unfair in modern than legacy. You don't have force of will in that format. That's the main difference between legacy and modern. In legacy force polices the format. In modern? There's nothing like force there no disrupting shoal does not count. The cheapest countermagic is 1-2 mana and none of it is hard countermagic a la counterspell. The only 1 mana counter is spell snare, which is great or terrible depending on the metagame.
We don't need Force of Will in Modern. Also, some of us want to play in a format where decks have more equalized matchups. During the Grand Prix New Jersey coverage, I noticed that people kept talking about how Punishing Jund has a great matchup against the fair decks but is terrible against Combo. This seems to be the trend with most nonblue noncombo decks. I prefer Modern, in which you don't need to run a bunch of blue cards and a playset of a specific blue card to have a chance against a widely played archetype.
Another thing about your banned list, you banned batterskull but not stoneforge mystic. Stoneforge mystic is far better than anything on your list except skullclamp, hypergenesis, and blazing shoal.
Sure, Stoneforge Mystic is amazing. However, Stoneforge Mystic is considerably less amazing without Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull. All it can do without those is tutor up a sword or an Elbrus, the Binding Blade. Sure, that is good. But it isn't broken.
JTMS does not belong there. But I bet you're still just one of those people butthurt over cawblade. Cawblade is done and gone. Cawblade wasn't great due to JTMS it was great due to the white tinker that isn't on your hypothetical banlist. They banned JTMS just to be safe just like when they banned affinity out of standard where they banned a ton of cards to be safe they did the same with cawblade the only card they didn't ban that they probably could have was preordain.
My problem with Jace isn't just power-level. It is price. Because Jace is a planeswalker, he cannot be printed at lower than mythic. He also cannot be reprinted in Standard due to well-justified fear of him. From what we have seen with Bitterblossom, we can assume that Jace would spike in price, most likely tripling. The difference is that we have seen how good Jace is and he would probably stay there. This would price many players out of blue control and midrange decks. At least Goyf can be reprinted at rare. However, if someone has an idea that would fix this I would choose to have him unbanned in a heartbeat.
P.S. I wasn't playing during the Caw-Blade era.
Preordain isn't on your list either.
I know. It isn't supposed to be. With the general rise in power-level that my list would lead to, I think that Preordain could come off, and perhaps Ponder if all went well. Since it is dependent on how the new format works out, I am not removing Ponder from the hypothetical list.
With your list people are still stoneforging up swords and wrecking face with them.
And in Modern right now people are Snapcastering back Lightning Bolts and wrecking face with them. Stoneforge Mystic with the swords is good. However, without a 2 mana 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature that can't be killed and a 2 mana do everything equipment, I believe that it would be a reasonable unban.
They get preordain in fast combo and just as a very good combo enabler in general.
While I do like Modern, I would be fine with the turn 4 rule being a bit looser. I think that Modern can handle a few more turn 3 Storm kills. The main deck that one has to worry about in Modern that would use Preordain right now would be Twin, and that is a turn 4 kill. I just don't think that it would wreck the format.
Artifact bans could probably be unbanned in modern as the synergy that they have with affinity is very small they work with plating and that's about it since frogmite/myr enforcer got powercreeped out of existence.
There is also working well with metalcraft, Arcbound Ravager, and Ensoul Artifact. My list has Tree of Tales unbanned. Maybe some of the others could too, but I felt that it was safer to unban the one that it could use the least.
My problem with Jace isn't just power-level. It is price.
I understand your ban list is just hypothetical, but this isn't a very good reason to ban a card (or leave it banned). In fact, I think that price would be a bigger factor into unbanning it than leaving it banned (though price shouldn't be a determining factor for either option) since then they could actually print it in Modern Masters 2 (or 3 or 4). It is entirely possible that unbanning Jace would cause Jace's price to jump, but I don't think it would be quite as severe as you think. Plus, the ability to reprint him easier could lower his overall price after a reprinting or two.
I could be wrong, but if the format can currently handle $150 Tarmogofys, I think it could handle a Jace that doubled in price (which would put it around the price tag of Goyfs), if it would even get that high.
This thread's devolved into trolling and cross-format banlist discussion. Rather than issuing more warnings than I already have, I'm just going to close this down.
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And you do with your glorious one liners? Modern is overrated. If the reversed list didnt exist it would probably be less popular than legacy.
Mere speculation. I am not trying to compare Modern and Legacy. However, some things that you said aren't true.
1. Wizards is not against turn 3 combos in Modern. It is against consistent turn 3 combos that see significant amounts of play. Goryo's Vengeance isn't consistent and it sees little play. Jeskai Ascendancy sees little play.
2. Modern is not where Standard All-stars go to die any more than Legacy is where Extended decks used to go to die.
3. Modern banned 1 card in the past 1 and a half years. It is not continuous.
4. Wizards doesn't arbitrarily ban cards anymore. Yes, there are still several cards that were banned earlier that have no reason to be banned, but they stopped banning cards for arbitrary reasons and just to shake up the format. Lightning Bolt and Snapcaster Mage certainly aren't getting banned.
5. Modern is not overpriced for an Eternal format. In Legacy UR Delver is about $1900. In Modern it is about $500. Yes, the most expensive Legacy decks cost about twice as much as the most expensive Modern decks. However, the average cost for Legacy is much less than the average cost of Modern. Also, even if Legacy cost twice as much as Modern, that would be fair as Legacy is a little less than twice as big as Modern in terms of card pool.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
UR Delver is one deck thats midly inexpensive. Every other Modern deck is way more expensive and even the decks that arent as good cost as much as a good standard deck. Yeah, you can "play modern" with some inexpensive underwhelming deck like Merfolk or Mono White Hatebears, but those arent interesting or good decks. Doesnt sound like a good format if forcing myself to play it involves playing with a lower tier linear deck.
Theres many cards on the modern ban list that have no solid reasons of beind there. Theres nothing ban worthy about Deathrite Shaman. Sure, it was in a lot of decks, but thats not a good reason to ban a card. Cantrips being banned so combo isnt as good is also poor ban decisions. Making combo have more variance based instead of making the format have less variance all around is just a bad idea. I am sure I could go into more reasons why a lot of modern bans arent good but that is just a waste of time if you dont want to listen anyway.
The thing is, there is nothing about Modern that really makes it more interesting than Legacy. The format is mainly midrange battles involving worser versions of Legacy cards. Instead of having Counterspell and Daze, your playing with way worse cards like Remand and Cryptic Command. Every type of strategy is represented in Legacy, while in Modern everything is mostly just very creature heavy. What can I play that isnt midrange in Modern? Affinity or Boogles? No thanks, thats not much better than previous standards that had similar decks.
Bottom line, most people play Modern because its cheaper than Legacy, not because the format is a real alternative. If Legacy cards costed the same price, I do not think Modern would be remotely popular. The reserved list dictates too much of what players can really do. Id like if there was a format that was actually much different than Legacy, not a version to where you play similar but weaker and less strategies.
UR Delver is one deck thats midly inexpensive. Every other Modern deck is way more expensive and even the decks that arent as good cost as much as a good standard deck. Yeah, you can "play modern" with some inexpensive underwhelming deck like Merfolk or Mono White Hatebears, but those arent interesting or good decks. Doesnt sound like a good format if forcing myself to play it involves playing with a lower tier linear deck.
Theres many cards on the modern ban list that have no solid reasons of beind there. Theres nothing ban worthy about Deathrite Shaman. Sure, it was in a lot of decks, but thats not a good reason to ban a card. Cantrips being banned so combo isnt as good is also poor ban decisions. Making combo have more variance based instead of making the format have less variance all around is just a bad idea. I am sure I could go into more reasons why a lot of modern bans arent good but that is just a waste of time if you dont want to listen anyway.
The thing is, there is nothing about Modern that really makes it more interesting than Legacy. The format is mainly midrange battles involving worser versions of Legacy cards. Instead of having Counterspell and Daze, your playing with way worse cards like Remand and Cryptic Command. Every type of strategy is represented in Legacy, while in Modern everything is mostly just very creature heavy. What can I play that isnt midrange in Modern? Affinity or Boogles? No thanks, thats not much better than previous standards that had similar decks.
Bottom line, most people play Modern because its cheaper than Legacy, not because the format is a real alternative. If Legacy cards costed the same price, I do not think Modern would be remotely popular. The reserved list dictates too much of what players can really do. Id like if there was a format that was actually much different than Legacy, not a version to where you play similar but weaker and less strategies.
And let's be honest. Modern was created because of the prohibitive cost of Legacy. Had their been no RL, Modern would not exist. For somebody who want's a powerful format, there is nothing for them in Modern, which is just slightly stronger than Standard.
As for the announcement, not much I can do about it. It is what it is. As long as I can still play Legacy on Saturdays I don't really care all that much.
But I'd hate to see this format die.
Besides, Legacy players like to complain that Legacy is too "Blue Centric".
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Delver, Burn, Affinity, Bogles, RG Tron, Amulet of Vigor, Summoning Trap Valakut, Ascendancy Combo, and Infect are all good decks that don't cost much. Also, with the exception of BGx Midrange, every Modern deck is significantly less expensive than most Legacy decks.
Metagame dominance is a reason to ban a card. BGx Midrange had remained at 16% for almost a year. Every attempt to hate it out had failed. It was stifling the format.
And making the format have decks that can't beat combo because they don't run the free counterspell that forces you to run a large amount of blue cards is any better? Yes, maybe the cantrips shouldn't be banned. And yes, the format has many cards that shouldn't be banned. I am against a lot of the banlist. For reference, here is what my proposed banlist for Modern is
Yes, many cards in Modern shouldn't be banned. But making it Legacy Lite is not want most people want from Modern. Some people don't want broken Magic. some people want to be able to race a combo deck with an aggro deck. Some people want to be able to play their spells without fear of a turn 0 counterspell. Some people want to be able to play lands without the fear of Stifle on the fetchland followed by a Wasteland next turn. Some people don't want to play in formats that are 80% blue.
Let's see, here are the decks that you can play that aren't Midrange in Modern (I am only listing the decks that qualified for Modern's Established and Proven forums for the last quarter, so Ascendancy Combo isn't included under Combo).
Tempo: UR Delver, RUG Delver, WUR Delver
Aggro: Affinity, Bogles, Infect, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Domain Zoo, Hatebears, Death and Taxes, Soul Sisters
Control: WUR, UW, UB Tezzeret, UW Tron, Mono U Tron, 8-Rack, 4C Gifts, Blue Moon
Combo: Scapeshift, Kiki Pod, Ad Nauseum, Amulet of Vigor, Living End, Griselbrand Reanimator, Summoning Trap Valakut, arguably RG Tron, certain versions of UR Twin
And if everyone could play Vintage, Legacy would die off. That doesn't make Legacy just a worse version of Vintage.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It wasn't banned for being in a lot of decks. It was banned because the card was too good. The fact you think there are "no solid reasons" for Deathrite Shaman to be banned just shows you really don't know that much about the format you’re talking about.
The funny thing is, there actually are cards that just don't make sense to be banned. I'm utterly baffled that you pointed to Deathrite Shaman (a card that 100% deserves to be banned) rather than something like Sword of the Meek or Ancestral Vision.
I don't see how it's a poor ban decision to try to balance things out so that some decks aren't completely overpowered, as combo decks were.
Why don't you just look at the GP Madridd Top 8 for some nom-midrange decks? Plenty of non-Midrange there, including the two decks that were in the Finals of the whole thing (RUG Delver and Scapeshift).
Honestly, you're just spouting off a bunch of claims that just show you don't understand the format. You're sounding like that guy who says he doesn't want to play Legacy because all the decks kill on turn 1 or 2. It just shows lack of knowledge of what the format is actually like.
One can easily make the same basic argument about Vintage, that the only reason people played Legacy is because they can’t afford Vintage.
Look, I can understand not liking Modern. It definitely does have its share of issues (as does Legacy, for that matter). It's just that your specific complaints seem to indicate a lack of real knowledge about the format.
As many mentioned, regardless of all the walls of text posted here, Modern was made for strictly financial reasons. It wasnt made because its any different or more interesting than Legacy. Replacing Modern with extended is like comparing a pile of turds to a turd sandwich. Your not really making anything better, its just one thing is just better in comparison.
Also, Vintage>Legacy? Lay off the crack, there two completely different formats. MTG is a way different game with and without power. One is balanced and one is not.
They aren't the kind of decks that will win Grand Prix. However, they make it into Established for our classification in the Modern forums. It is based off of a compilation of all data in a quarter and then seeing which decks meet the criteria. That is a lot less arbitrary than whatever you do here or what is done over in the Standard forum.
See, this is showcasing your ignorance. There were many people calling for a ban. I admit that I wasn't one of them, but in retrospect the format got much more diverse after the ban.
And what is the point of talking to someone who has such a heavy bias that they cannot see the other point of view? I get why people like Legacy. I respect it as a format. I am sad to see it lose support. However, it is not the format for me. I enjoy Modern, and there is very little point in listening to someone who assumes that people only play it because they don't have money.
They are just as different as Legacy and Modern. Modern is not just a weaker Legacy. "MTG is a way different game" with and without Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and turn 2-3 combo decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Really, the only mistake made in banning Deathrite Shaman is that they didn't do it a year beforehand and made the wrong choice of targeting Bloodbraid Elf when the real problem was Deathrite Shaman.
And all of the power cards are restricted, so it actually does balance itself out.
No dude i think your just insecure that you play modern over legacy and dont want to admit that it an inferior format. And how do I know that? You have to put it in your signature like its a fact. Nobody really cares if you believe that or not.
I bet the reality is that you cant afford Legacy, which is why you play Modern. Just like everyone else who tries to believe that Modern is really "different" than Legacy.
The warning for trolling issued in this post applies to this post as well.
- Teia
No, I play Modern because it is more fun. Legacy is broken Magic covered in blue. in Modern, things are fair. You still have diversity (though I would like more support for Control). You also have much more color diversity. Yes, Modern isn't perfect. I personally would have preferred Overextended, starting at Invasion. However, Legacy is not what I want. This has nothing to do with money. It is simply that I don't think that it is as much fun as Modern. This is the problem with so many of you Legacy players. You can't grasp that people want different things from the game from you. I don't want to play in a format with Wastelands and Brainstorms and True-Name Nemeses and Force of Wills and prison decks made completely out of lands and turn 2-3 combos. Deal with it.
Edit 1: Legacy really is different from Modern. Legacy has turn 1 combo decks, prison control decks, horribly broken Magic, and even the fair decks often need 1 mana board wipes and free counterspells to compete. Modern is not like that.
Edit 2: I notice how you haven't actually given a constructive argument in your favor. In fact, you have completely abandoned the parts of the conversation that you were losing. Please stop being a coward and actually have a constructive debate that does not involve you providing no support for your arguments and running away when things get tough.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yeah sureee that is why you have the need to put it in your sig, so every single person on this forum needs to know exactly that your not wrong in anyway and your sooo right. Mr super serious here everyone, this guy must know his stuff since any reasonable person needs to sig their opinions. Your probably just scared since your probably just bad at Legacy so you have to go to sleep at night and cry about how you cant afford the format. How sad.
Warning for trolling issued.
- Teia
Things are more unfair in modern than legacy. You don't have force of will in that format. That's the main difference between legacy and modern. In legacy force polices the format. In modern? There's nothing like force there no disrupting shoal does not count. The cheapest countermagic is 1-2 mana and none of it is hard countermagic a la counterspell. The only 1 mana counter is spell snare, which is great or terrible depending on the metagame.
Another thing about your banned list, you banned batterskull but not stoneforge mystic. Stoneforge mystic is far better than anything on your list except skullclamp, hypergenesis, and blazing shoal. JTMS does not belong there. But I bet you're still just one of those people butthurt over cawblade. Cawblade is done and gone. Cawblade wasn't great due to JTMS it was great due to the white tinker that isn't on your hypothetical banlist. They banned JTMS just to be safe just like when they banned affinity out of standard where they banned a ton of cards to be safe they did the same with cawblade the only card they didn't ban that they probably could have was preordain. Preordain isn't on your list either. With your list people are still stoneforging up swords and wrecking face with them. They get preordain in fast combo and just as a very good combo enabler in general. Artifact bans could probably be unbanned in modern as the synergy that they have with affinity is very small they work with plating and that's about it since frogmite/myr enforcer got powercreeped out of existence.
Currently Playing:
Retired
I sig it because I am tired about arguing it with idiots like you. I am reporting you for flaming. Now leave this conversation to people with maturity who are willing to listen to other people's opinions and leave because you are a coward and you can't stand up to logic. You just have to dance around it like the arrogant fool you are because you can't wrap your mind around the fact that you could possibly be wrong.
Edit: You keep bringing up that I have it in my sig. The fact that it is in my sig does not make it any less true. Modern is diverse. Have you ever played the format? Or are you just trolling because you are too afraid to try new things? Legacy is going to die out. Then you can be content with refusing to join the Magic of the future and let the people with brains play.
Edit 2: You know, I used to be sad about not being able to afford a format. That format was Modern, not Legacy. I started playing competitively just so that I could play Modern. Legacy is not for me.
Edit 3: I can't believe that I wasted my 9000th post on a troll like you.
This is a simply unacceptable level of flaming and trolling. Suspension issued.
- Teia
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
As a player who really plays only competitive legacy, I'm very upset. I enjoy the format immensely. I don't like where the game is going (as a whole). I also despise 2-day events. I do not want to see 15-rounders being the "new normal". I hope the bigger shops around me fill in the void for 5 to 9 round legacy events. Mini GPs for a SCG just isn't worth it. If this situation doesn't change, I'd cash out for good.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I didn't attend GPNJ, but I have to agree with this sentiment. Legacy is a great format, and it would be a shame for coverage to disappear. It's bad enough that Legacy games are difficult to find in the first place, but having high profile events and decent coverage allows people to stay connected to Legacy, even when they can't play.
On some level, players aspire to play Legacy. People play Standard because it's easy to find games and community. But eventually, when those players get tired of rotation, they switch to Modern, because it's a cheap(er), non-rotating, supported format. But beyond Modern, Legacy is really the holy grail of "reasonably accessible" Magic. It's diverse. Its card pool is rooted with Magic history. The format is internally balanced. But most of all, the players that play it, are committed to it. The chances are good that those players have significant personal investment in both their decks and event participation, and they take pride in the game in ways that other players don't.
Seconded.
Not only is this insulting, but it's not even accurate. Modern is different than Legacy. Please deal with it.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Not really. It is all personal opinion. I can see why some people disagree with me. However, I personally think that, in retrospect, it was too good.
Primeval Titan is banned in my proposed list because of Cloudpost. I personally do not support killing decks with bans and would prefer if they were weakened instead. Primeval Titan with Green Sun's Zenith and Cloudpost was amazing before the Cloudpost ban. It forced decks to win before turn 5 because 12-Post was able to consistently get a turn 5 hardcasted Emrakul. It basically killed Midrange. There are many cards that could have been banned. Wizards decided to go with Cloudpost. I want the format's power-level to be slightly higher than it is now so I want Primeval Titan banned instead.
Many times in this conversation I have acknowledged the other point of view. I am not egocentric this time. I fully recognize that Legacy is a great format. I fail to see how disagreeing about whether Modern is, quoting JacetheMindFoo, "a turd sandwich" and refusing to accept an opinion about said format from someone who doesn't play it is egocentric.
Not really. Deathrite Shaman came out after they did those bannings. After that, Jund dominated until Bloodbraid Elf was banned. Then a few months later BG Rock and Jund started dominating again. Notice that I don't have Bloodbraid Elf on my banned list. This is because I think that Deathrite Shaman is what should have been banned when Jund was 30% of the meta and winning every tournament. Wizards only refused to because Deathrite Shaman was getting people to buy more booster packs.
We don't need Force of Will in Modern. Also, some of us want to play in a format where decks have more equalized matchups. During the Grand Prix New Jersey coverage, I noticed that people kept talking about how Punishing Jund has a great matchup against the fair decks but is terrible against Combo. This seems to be the trend with most nonblue noncombo decks. I prefer Modern, in which you don't need to run a bunch of blue cards and a playset of a specific blue card to have a chance against a widely played archetype.
Sure, Stoneforge Mystic is amazing. However, Stoneforge Mystic is considerably less amazing without Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull. All it can do without those is tutor up a sword or an Elbrus, the Binding Blade. Sure, that is good. But it isn't broken.
My problem with Jace isn't just power-level. It is price. Because Jace is a planeswalker, he cannot be printed at lower than mythic. He also cannot be reprinted in Standard due to well-justified fear of him. From what we have seen with Bitterblossom, we can assume that Jace would spike in price, most likely tripling. The difference is that we have seen how good Jace is and he would probably stay there. This would price many players out of blue control and midrange decks. At least Goyf can be reprinted at rare. However, if someone has an idea that would fix this I would choose to have him unbanned in a heartbeat.
P.S. I wasn't playing during the Caw-Blade era.
I know. It isn't supposed to be. With the general rise in power-level that my list would lead to, I think that Preordain could come off, and perhaps Ponder if all went well. Since it is dependent on how the new format works out, I am not removing Ponder from the hypothetical list.
And in Modern right now people are Snapcastering back Lightning Bolts and wrecking face with them. Stoneforge Mystic with the swords is good. However, without a 2 mana 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature that can't be killed and a 2 mana do everything equipment, I believe that it would be a reasonable unban.
While I do like Modern, I would be fine with the turn 4 rule being a bit looser. I think that Modern can handle a few more turn 3 Storm kills. The main deck that one has to worry about in Modern that would use Preordain right now would be Twin, and that is a turn 4 kill. I just don't think that it would wreck the format.
There is also working well with metalcraft, Arcbound Ravager, and Ensoul Artifact. My list has Tree of Tales unbanned. Maybe some of the others could too, but I felt that it was safer to unban the one that it could use the least.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I understand your ban list is just hypothetical, but this isn't a very good reason to ban a card (or leave it banned). In fact, I think that price would be a bigger factor into unbanning it than leaving it banned (though price shouldn't be a determining factor for either option) since then they could actually print it in Modern Masters 2 (or 3 or 4). It is entirely possible that unbanning Jace would cause Jace's price to jump, but I don't think it would be quite as severe as you think. Plus, the ability to reprint him easier could lower his overall price after a reprinting or two.
I could be wrong, but if the format can currently handle $150 Tarmogofys, I think it could handle a Jace that doubled in price (which would put it around the price tag of Goyfs), if it would even get that high.