Has anyone figured out a place for Dack Fayden yet?
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The very fact that Flamethrowers exist proves that someone somewhere said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire... But I'm just not close enough to do it"
He's just not very good. He isn't good enough to want to build a deck around or good enough to fit in any current decks. It's too bad he isn't Modern legal, he just has no home outside of EDH.
For what it's worth, Boettcher doesn't appear to have played that deck at any other events beyond the Invitational. If he has, then he didn't place well enough for it to be listed anywhere.
Here's a RUG Delver list that threw one in, seemingly for the hell of it:
The #1 target is probably Batterskull. Stealing any of the other things you listed would certainly be setbacks, but not something I'd devote a 3-drop in RUG Delver to doing, especially when Ancient Grudge does the same job twice (and for cheaper). Yes, Dack steals those instead of destroying them, but none of them are cards I'd be excited to trade a 3-drop for. I don't have an opinion one way the other on the +1 Careful Study as it pertains to Delver.
Goblin Welder seems like a smart place to start with Dack since it's already on color. -2 Steal > Sac to my Welder > get back ??? doesn't seem too bad, although I'm not really sure if there's much of a deck for it beyond Painter. I've been waiting for a competitive Tangle Wire / Stax deck since the day it rotated from Old Extended.
Legacy is a hard place to break into for any planeswalker. We've seen plenty of 3-drop walkers fail to make the cut. He may just be something to keep in mind for future printings. You never know.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Too bad you can't also gain control of the Germ... and equipping it to something else costs infinite mana. Really, you just trade 2 loyalty counters for "3: destroy target Germ. return Batterskull to owner's hand". Meh. Temporary stall.
#1 target is probably Jitte, since you gain control of the counters.
Vehemently disagree with dack in the RUG list posted above. 3 drops in that deck are TERRIBLE. It was proven years ago and by years I mean like actually 5 years ago when vendilion clique was dismissed as being too hard to cast consistently. It is a total throw in and has no place in the deck since he provides no real value from what I can see.
Dack is great in vintage, EDH, and cube. That's it. In legacy I don't see anything to abuse the +1 ability with at all. Goblin welder is too fragile here especially with TNN in the picture.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Carsten Kotter did an article series where he's been brewing a Dack + Welder deck, with the win conditions being either Mindslaver lock or Sundering Titan and Wurmcoil beats.
Vehemently disagree with dack in the RUG list posted above. 3 drops in that deck are TERRIBLE. It was proven years ago and by years I mean like actually 5 years ago when vendilion clique was dismissed as being too hard to cast consistently. It is a total throw in and has no place in the deck since he provides no real value from what I can see.
Dack is great in vintage, EDH, and cube. That's it. In legacy I don't see anything to abuse the +1 ability with at all. Goblin welder is too fragile here especially with TNN in the picture.
True on the point about RUG. I remember whenthey were playing a ssingleton Temporal Spring and it was simply too much mana to be effective
Too bad you can't also gain control of the Germ... and equipping it to something else costs infinite mana. Really, you just trade 2 loyalty counters for "3: destroy target Germ. return Batterskull to owner's hand". Meh. Temporary stall.
#1 target is probably Jitte, since you gain control of the counters.
I didn't say it was good. I said that's probably what most people steal. Jitte is not very good against RUG Delver (too many counters to kill 'Goyf, can't target Mongoose). Batterskull, on the other hand, is almost a dead lock once resolved and swinging, as they have very few ways of removing it once in play. I side out Jitte games 2 and 3 and never fetch it on game 1, meaning most RUG Delver lists that bother to run Dack are probably stealing Batterskulls. Again, it's infinitely worse than just siding in Ancient Grudge, but hey, if people are going to run Dack, I guess that gives them an out to Batterksull game 1. I was trying to be as positive as possible. I never said it was a good play (or that Dack was a good card for Legacy in general).
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Too bad you can't also gain control of the Germ... and equipping it to something else costs infinite mana. Really, you just trade 2 loyalty counters for "3: destroy target Germ. return Batterskull to owner's hand". Meh. Temporary stall.
#1 target is probably Jitte, since you gain control of the counters.
I didn't say it was good. I said that's probably what most people steal. Jitte is not very good against RUG Delver (too many counters to kill 'Goyf, can't target Mongoose). Batterskull, on the other hand, is almost a dead lock once resolved and swinging, as they have very few ways of removing it once in play. I side out Jitte games 2 and 3 and never fetch it on game 1, meaning most RUG Delver lists that bother to run Dack are probably stealing Batterskulls. Again, it's infinitely worse than just siding in Ancient Grudge, but hey, if people are going to run Dack, I guess that gives them an out to Batterksull game 1. I was trying to be as positive as possible. I never said it was a good play (or that Dack was a good card for Legacy in general).
But it's not an "out" for more than a turn or 2....
You: 1UR, Dack Fayden. -3 to gain control of Batterskull.
Opponent: attack with Germ again, either killing Dack or hitting you for 4. gain 4 life.
You: Tap out again, returning Batterskull to owner's hand.
Opponent: Redeploy Batterskull...
I guess if you kill the SFM in between or stop them from reaching 5 mana then they can't redeploy Batterskull. But if RUG has 3 mana for at least 2 turns, its not completely impossible the Stoneforge deck has 5 mana. Also, RUG normally wouldn't have to kill an unequipped SFM after it already dropped Batterskull since it has basically no remaining impact on the board, so now you're forced to blow a Bolt on a Squire just to keep the Batterskull away.
Growing Tarmogoyf to 4/5 seems like a much better out.
I just want to be clear readers understand that you gain control of the Batterskull but not the Germ and the Germ can keep attacking you even after you control Batterskull..
But it's not an "out" for more than a turn or 2....
You: 1UR, Dack Fayden. -3 to gain control of Batterskull.
Opponent: attack with Germ again, either killing Dack or hitting you for 4. gain 4 life.
You: Tap out again, returning Batterskull to owner's hand.
Opponent: Redeploy Batterskull...
I guess if you kill the SFM in between or stop them from reaching 5 mana then they can't redeploy Batterskull. But if RUG has 3 mana for at least 2 turns, its not completely impossible the Stoneforge deck has 5 mana. Also, RUG normally wouldn't have to kill an unequipped SFM after it already dropped Batterskull since it has basically no remaining impact on the board, so now you're forced to blow a Bolt on a Squire just to keep the Batterskull away.
Growing Tarmogoyf to 4/5 seems like a much better out.
I just want to be clear readers understand that you gain control of the Batterskull but not the Germ and the Germ can keep attacking you even after you control Batterskull..
Ah. I had to go back and re-read the ruling on equipment. I was working under the assumption that the Batterskull falls off the germ when the player no longer controls the equipment. I'm a little surprised they haven't changed the ruling on that to be honest. Then again, I can't remember anyone playing an Act of Treason style effect on an equipped creature I control, so I've never really had a reason to consider it until now.
Well in that case, I'm out of ideas. I was reaching for something positive to say, but it turns out he's just bad.
Carry on.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I played against a deck that used Masicore, Dack Fayden, and Grove of the Burnwillows the other day.
Once the engine got online, it was very powerful. However, I was playing DnT and I felt like it was tailor made to mess with everything I was trying to do.
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EDH RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG URThe Locust godUR
Modern UWMiraclesUW
Legacy BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG UBRGrixis ControlUBR RGLandsRG
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68869
For what it's worth, Boettcher doesn't appear to have played that deck at any other events beyond the Invitational. If he has, then he didn't place well enough for it to be listed anywhere.
Here's a RUG Delver list that threw one in, seemingly for the hell of it:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68963
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Goblin Welder seems like a smart place to start with Dack since it's already on color. -2 Steal > Sac to my Welder > get back ??? doesn't seem too bad, although I'm not really sure if there's much of a deck for it beyond Painter. I've been waiting for a competitive Tangle Wire / Stax deck since the day it rotated from Old Extended.
Legacy is a hard place to break into for any planeswalker. We've seen plenty of 3-drop walkers fail to make the cut. He may just be something to keep in mind for future printings. You never know.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Second one is useless against 50% of decks
Third one is meh
he isn't violent enough for legacy. even in modern it looks like a crappy one
I don't really think it could become competitive, though.
Too bad you can't also gain control of the Germ... and equipping it to something else costs infinite mana. Really, you just trade 2 loyalty counters for "3: destroy target Germ. return Batterskull to owner's hand". Meh. Temporary stall.
#1 target is probably Jitte, since you gain control of the counters.
Dack is great in vintage, EDH, and cube. That's it. In legacy I don't see anything to abuse the +1 ability with at all. Goblin welder is too fragile here especially with TNN in the picture.
Currently Playing:
Retired
Here's the last article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29152_You-Choose-The-Brew-Episode-4.html
True on the point about RUG. I remember whenthey were playing a ssingleton Temporal Spring and it was simply too much mana to be effective
I didn't say it was good. I said that's probably what most people steal. Jitte is not very good against RUG Delver (too many counters to kill 'Goyf, can't target Mongoose). Batterskull, on the other hand, is almost a dead lock once resolved and swinging, as they have very few ways of removing it once in play. I side out Jitte games 2 and 3 and never fetch it on game 1, meaning most RUG Delver lists that bother to run Dack are probably stealing Batterskulls. Again, it's infinitely worse than just siding in Ancient Grudge, but hey, if people are going to run Dack, I guess that gives them an out to Batterksull game 1. I was trying to be as positive as possible. I never said it was a good play (or that Dack was a good card for Legacy in general).
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
But it's not an "out" for more than a turn or 2....
You: 1UR, Dack Fayden. -3 to gain control of Batterskull.
Opponent: attack with Germ again, either killing Dack or hitting you for 4. gain 4 life.
You: Tap out again, returning Batterskull to owner's hand.
Opponent: Redeploy Batterskull...
I guess if you kill the SFM in between or stop them from reaching 5 mana then they can't redeploy Batterskull. But if RUG has 3 mana for at least 2 turns, its not completely impossible the Stoneforge deck has 5 mana. Also, RUG normally wouldn't have to kill an unequipped SFM after it already dropped Batterskull since it has basically no remaining impact on the board, so now you're forced to blow a Bolt on a Squire just to keep the Batterskull away.
Growing Tarmogoyf to 4/5 seems like a much better out.
I just want to be clear readers understand that you gain control of the Batterskull but not the Germ and the Germ can keep attacking you even after you control Batterskull..
Ah. I had to go back and re-read the ruling on equipment. I was working under the assumption that the Batterskull falls off the germ when the player no longer controls the equipment. I'm a little surprised they haven't changed the ruling on that to be honest. Then again, I can't remember anyone playing an Act of Treason style effect on an equipped creature I control, so I've never really had a reason to consider it until now.
Well in that case, I'm out of ideas. I was reaching for something positive to say, but it turns out he's just bad.
Carry on.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Once the engine got online, it was very powerful. However, I was playing DnT and I felt like it was tailor made to mess with everything I was trying to do.
RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG
URThe Locust godUR
Modern
UWMiraclesUW
Legacy
BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
RGLandsRG
He stole my big robot and gave me a very sad expression upon my face.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730