I already hate the new KTK names in Legacy deck names. SCG has started adding the wedge names to replace the color names in results and it's just irritating to me. Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time seem ok, but I'm not completely sold. Just really irritated by SCG forcing the wedge names in results and articles.
The use of the names just tacking them onto already established decks does seem completely nonsensical.
The names are supposed to refer to specific deck strategies within a set of colors, not just the set of colors. You dont just randomly plug shard and guild names onto things that dont apply the relevant strategies. I've never heard Legacy UW called Azorius before. We dont call UB Tezzeret decks Dimir.
Its just silly. Im hoping that its just a phase they are going through and there's enough of a backlash that they stop.
The use of the names just tacking them onto already established decks does seem completely nonsensical.
The names are supposed to refer to specific deck strategies within a set of colors, not just the set of colors. You dont just randomly plug shard and guild names onto things that dont apply the relevant strategies. I've never heard Legacy UW called Azorius before. We dont call UB Tezzeret decks Dimir.
Its just silly. Im hoping that its just a phase they are going through and there's enough of a backlash that they stop.
I've seen enough Esper Control bandied about, even though the Esper shard is all about Neoffinity-like or Tezzerator-like artifact parties instead of artifact-free control, that I don't mind the name switches. RUG decks totally don't feel Temur, though.
RIP/Helm Miracles already has some rather good results. The other variant that might work out well, and which lets one play Treasure Cruise oneself, is the version with maindeck Blasts.
Esper control kinda fits because those decks usually run some combination of discard and card draw (like Esper Charm). RUG delver has nothing in common with the mardu clan which is about dropping stupid 5-cost fatties
Esper control kinda fits because those decks usually run some combination of discard and card draw (like Esper Charm). RUG delver has nothing in common with the mardu clan which is about dropping stupid 5-cost fatties
A) It's Temur. Mardu is WRB
B) They care about 4+ power, not 5+ cost. You know what has 4+ power? Tarmogoyf
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I already hate the new KTK names in Legacy deck names. SCG has started adding the wedge names to replace the color names in results and it's just irritating to me. Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time seem ok, but I'm not completely sold. Just really irritated by SCG forcing the wedge names in results and articles.
The use of the names just tacking them onto already established decks does seem completely nonsensical.
The names are supposed to refer to specific deck strategies within a set of colors, not just the set of colors. You dont just randomly plug shard and guild names onto things that dont apply the relevant strategies. I've never heard Legacy UW called Azorius before. We dont call UB Tezzeret decks Dimir.
Its just silly. Im hoping that its just a phase they are going through and there's enough of a backlash that they stop.
Indeed, I mean, I GET why they do it, but it still triggers that hyperanalytical, pragmatic side of me *because* it, to me, is lazy labeling when used on decks that are not using the flavor, the strategy, of a particular shard or guild.
The jund mechanic was Devour, and I only see Nic Fit running that, and only rarely. "Jund" is about as stupid a name as you could ask for. "Bant" is pretty ****in dumb, too, but people use them.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
The jund mechanic was Devour, and I only see Nic Fit running that, and only rarely. "Jund" is about as stupid a name as you could ask for. "Bant" is pretty ****in dumb, too, but people use them.
Its not about needing to use the set mechanic. Jund has always been a midrangey deck filled with strong creatures, lots of removal and some disruption.
I hear the word and I know what it refers to. I have some general idea of where it falls relative to other decks, what some of its matchups might be. And all without even needing any reference to specific cards in the list.
These new names? For one, we dont even really know where they fall in a competitive setting yet. If they become competitive standard decks which then evolve into Legacy strategies, then you can use the names.
The jund mechanic was Devour, and I only see Nic Fit running that, and only rarely. "Jund" is about as stupid a name as you could ask for. "Bant" is pretty ****in dumb, too, but people use them.
I'm not even a big fan of Alara names, but there are a few things that make them better than Khans names. First of all, "Jund" was an actual midrange standard deck that tried to grind the opponent down. The same style was ported to Modern and also Legacy. This is why only one deck is named Jund, and we don't go blindly calling Aggro Loam "Jund Loam." Jund refers to the standard deck, not merely the colors of it. Jund even has actual Jund cards from Alara such as Maelstrom Pulse and Bloodbraid Elf. Similarly, Bant decks used actual Bant cards such as Noble Hierarch, Qasali Pridemage, and Rhox War Monk. The closest thing to a debate here is Esper Stoneblade (I hate that name) and even in that case, most people just say Stoneblade.
Furthermore, there is ease of saying the names. Jund. Bant. RUG. BUG. Junk. Dega. When someone asks the color of your deck, why in the world would I say "Sultai" instead of just saying bug?
Finally, we have actual deck style. Temur appears to be about casting 4 power creatures and beating down. What does that have to do with Canadian Threshold (RUG)? Literally only Tarmogoyf. I don't say RUG Delver in real life, but at least it makes more sense than "Temur."
I'd say that the only name with a chance of catching on (due to less alternatives) is "Jeskai," and I really hate the way it sounds.
I don't know, I kind of get why Wizards did this. It's a new world, and it's focused on wedges. What are they going to do, use the old names? That seems like kind of a bad idea from a flavor perspective. Although those of us who have been playing a long time and don't really care at all about that sort of thing would appreciate the consistency, folks getting into the game would probably think it pretty seriously lame that they just recycled the same names for a different world with no explanation whatsoever.
The old names have a history of usage and so are meaningful to us. The new ones are associated only with some pretty forced and ugly usages in articles.
I'm looking on the bright side: none of the new names were printed on the fetchlands.
I think the problem is more that the names they decided to use for the wedges in no way evoke the flavor of what the colors in the wedge represent. I understand how it can be hard to nail down the identities of these specific color combinations, but I feel like the choice they made instead will make these names less memorable in the long run (if the names stick, it will be because they're forced down players' throats so there is no other choice--not because players naturally adopted them). The clan names are made to sound sort of Asian and exotic which isn't a bad choice when it comes to world building...but it becomes a bad choice when there are five strange names to remember that all have completely different meaning and are meant to have completely different feels. I still don't know which group is which because I don't particularly have the mental energy to memorize them. I know that might make me sound lazy, but I didn't feel like it was actually a chore to know which shard was which in the Alara block because Grixis immediately makes me think of Black, Esper sounds Blue, etc.
I'd say that the only name with a chance of catching on (due to less alternatives) is "Jeskai," and I really hate the way it sounds.
This is what I think the problem is. The name sounds too foreign to feel natural and it doesn't immediately make you think of any of the three colors that make up the wedge, so I think it's a failure at representing what it is meant to convey--I don't even really know what the names are supposed to convey in the world they're in...nothing about these names makes me think of any of the attributes the clans are supposed to individually represent.
And since the next sets are *not* about the distinct identity of the wedges, I can't imagine that bodes well for anyone's ability to remember which clan is which.
Standard
>implying Modern
>implying Legacy UWMiracles/Countertop EDH UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR My Trades
I'm kind of surprised almost no one is talking about Murderous Cut in legacy; I think it good enough to see play. During the SCG coverage on Sunday, Matthias Hunt compared it to Dismember and I have to agree. Even if you cast it for only 1B, it is quite good. The only thing against it, IMO, is the fact that it competes with Deathrite Shaman.
I'm kind of surprised almost no one is talking about Murderous Cut in legacy; I think it good enough to see play. During the SCG coverage on Sunday, Matthias Hunt compared it to Dismember and I have to agree. Even if you cast it for only 1B, it is quite good. The only thing against it, IMO, is the fact that it competes with Deathrite Shaman.
Almost all black decks in Legacy run DRS (except maybe pox?). Treasure Cruise can be run with DRS because Drawing 3 cards is a 4-mana effect, while destroying (removing) a creature is a 1 mana effect.
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Standard
>implying Modern
>implying Legacy UWMiracles/Countertop EDH UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR My Trades
I'm kind of surprised almost no one is talking about Murderous Cut in legacy; I think it good enough to see play. During the SCG coverage on Sunday, Matthias Hunt compared it to Dismember and I have to agree. Even if you cast it for only 1B, it is quite good. The only thing against it, IMO, is the fact that it competes with Deathrite Shaman.
Almost all black decks in Legacy run DRS (except maybe pox?). Treasure Cruise can be run with DRS because Drawing 3 cards is a 4-mana effect, while destroying (removing) a creature is a 1 mana effect.
True, but many decks (such as Shardless BUG) don't have access to White, and Murderous Cut is usually a 1 mana effect. I could be way off base here, but I think the card is at least worth a debate.
I'm kind of surprised almost no one is talking about Murderous Cut in legacy; I think it good enough to see play. During the SCG coverage on Sunday, Matthias Hunt compared it to Dismember and I have to agree. Even if you cast it for only 1B, it is quite good. The only thing against it, IMO, is the fact that it competes with Deathrite Shaman.
Almost all black decks in Legacy run DRS (except maybe pox?). Treasure Cruise can be run with DRS because Drawing 3 cards is a 4-mana effect, while destroying (removing) a creature is a 1 mana effect.
True, but many decks (such as Shardless BUG) don't have access to White, and Murderous Cut is usually a 1 mana effect. I could be way off base here, but I think the card is at least worth a debate.
Shardless bug (sultai?) already has Abrupt Decay, which hits about 90% of the cards in this format. While it is 2 mana, Shardless bug (sultai?) wants to keep up Tarmogoyf and DRS.
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Standard
>implying Modern
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One thing I've learned from Khans in Legacy. You can't play Treasure Cruise with Deathrite Shaman. That's like mixing oil and vinegar. I hear somebody played Cruise in a tourney recently. Anybody know what deck it was in?
One thing I've learned from Khans in Legacy. You can't play Treasure Cruise with Deathrite Shaman. That's like mixing oil and vinegar. I hear somebody played Cruise in a tourney recently. Anybody know what deck it was in?
DRS can (and should be) used on the opponents GY, but Goyf is a good point. The deck that played Treasure Cruise was UR Delver by Bob Huang.
Haven't really kept up much with MTG the past couple of months. Was Cruise the only impact new card to make a legacy splash?
Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Monastery Swiftspear have made their respective splashes, big or small.
Cruise and Dig the bigger splashes no doubt. Bob Huang's UR Delver playing the full four of Cruise was the biggest "surprise" as most people seemed to only play one or two copies in various archetypes. I imagine that they were just skeptical about the powerlevel and didn't have enough time to fully test and make up their minds. For a lot of people last week's tournaments were probably a bulk of their testing of the new cards. Numbers will go up for sure though, these cards are the real deal.
Swiftspear is cute. It's a better Goblin Guide in the context of UR Delver, but UR Delver still has the problems of UR Delver, in that you're still playing a Delver deck that lacks in raw power compared to the three color variants. The extreme aggression that UR Delver uses is effective, but some times you just lose because your opponent's cardboard does things that are impossible for you to effectively handle. Like, there are times when your opponent protects a Stoneforge Mystic and you just lose. Bob Huang said himself that he wouldn't play UR Delver despite it being the best choice that week.
I'm kind of surprised almost no one is talking about Murderous Cut in legacy; I think it good enough to see play. During the SCG coverage on Sunday, Matthias Hunt compared it to Dismember and I have to agree. Even if you cast it for only 1B, it is quite good. The only thing against it, IMO, is the fact that it competes with Deathrite Shaman.
I don't think I'd make that comparison. Part of what makes Dismember really fantastic is how splashable it is, one doesn't even need black to run it.
STATISTICS.
All of these "Let's eliminate bad cards" crusades are simply ignorant. And when they start to devolve into "WotC is conspiring to give us crappy cards," they just become embarrassing. MATH is conspiring to give you crappy cards.
I'd feel odd complaining about Treasure Cruise in the ban thread, so I will do so here.
I wish this card hadn't been printed. Remember the good old days when you had to earn your card advantage in Legacy, and card selection defined the format? I do, and I miss them.
It used to be a lot of work to 2-for-1 somebody. You had to kill something with Baleful Strix, connect on a Hymn to Tourach, or get Griselbrand on the table.
I don't like the card. I think I liked TNN better than this. Just to be clear, I am not discussing a banning, I am discussing the distasteful effects of one Khans card in Legacy.
The use of the names just tacking them onto already established decks does seem completely nonsensical.
The names are supposed to refer to specific deck strategies within a set of colors, not just the set of colors. You dont just randomly plug shard and guild names onto things that dont apply the relevant strategies. I've never heard Legacy UW called Azorius before. We dont call UB Tezzeret decks Dimir.
Its just silly. Im hoping that its just a phase they are going through and there's enough of a backlash that they stop.
I've seen enough Esper Control bandied about, even though the Esper shard is all about Neoffinity-like or Tezzerator-like artifact parties instead of artifact-free control, that I don't mind the name switches. RUG decks totally don't feel Temur, though.
on the other hand, they make anti-GY things stronger.
if (big if!) delve becomes a real thing, i can see that UW control will move from miracles to RIP-helm combo.
RIP/Helm Miracles already has some rather good results. The other variant that might work out well, and which lets one play Treasure Cruise oneself, is the version with maindeck Blasts.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
A) It's Temur. Mardu is WRB
B) They care about 4+ power, not 5+ cost. You know what has 4+ power? Tarmogoyf
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Indeed, I mean, I GET why they do it, but it still triggers that hyperanalytical, pragmatic side of me *because* it, to me, is lazy labeling when used on decks that are not using the flavor, the strategy, of a particular shard or guild.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Its not about needing to use the set mechanic. Jund has always been a midrangey deck filled with strong creatures, lots of removal and some disruption.
I hear the word and I know what it refers to. I have some general idea of where it falls relative to other decks, what some of its matchups might be. And all without even needing any reference to specific cards in the list.
These new names? For one, we dont even really know where they fall in a competitive setting yet. If they become competitive standard decks which then evolve into Legacy strategies, then you can use the names.
Furthermore, there is ease of saying the names. Jund. Bant. RUG. BUG. Junk. Dega. When someone asks the color of your deck, why in the world would I say "Sultai" instead of just saying bug?
Finally, we have actual deck style. Temur appears to be about casting 4 power creatures and beating down. What does that have to do with Canadian Threshold (RUG)? Literally only Tarmogoyf. I don't say RUG Delver in real life, but at least it makes more sense than "Temur."
I'd say that the only name with a chance of catching on (due to less alternatives) is "Jeskai," and I really hate the way it sounds.
The old names have a history of usage and so are meaningful to us. The new ones are associated only with some pretty forced and ugly usages in articles.
I'm looking on the bright side: none of the new names were printed on the fetchlands.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Basically,
This is what I think the problem is. The name sounds too foreign to feel natural and it doesn't immediately make you think of any of the three colors that make up the wedge, so I think it's a failure at representing what it is meant to convey--I don't even really know what the names are supposed to convey in the world they're in...nothing about these names makes me think of any of the attributes the clans are supposed to individually represent.
And since the next sets are *not* about the distinct identity of the wedges, I can't imagine that bodes well for anyone's ability to remember which clan is which.
Save us Carsten Kotter
>implying
Modern
>implying
Legacy
UWMiracles/Countertop
EDH
UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU
RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU
GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR
My Trades
Almost all black decks in Legacy run DRS (except maybe pox?). Treasure Cruise can be run with DRS because Drawing 3 cards is a 4-mana effect, while destroying (removing) a creature is a 1 mana effect.
>implying
Modern
>implying
Legacy
UWMiracles/Countertop
EDH
UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU
RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU
GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR
My Trades
Shardless bug (sultai?) already has Abrupt Decay, which hits about 90% of the cards in this format. While it is 2 mana, Shardless bug (sultai?) wants to keep up Tarmogoyf and DRS.
>implying
Modern
>implying
Legacy
UWMiracles/Countertop
EDH
UUUMemnarch, Steal your grillUUU
RWUZedruu, Queen of ChaosRWU
GWUBRReaper KingGWUBR
My Trades
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Monastery Swiftspear have made their respective splashes, big or small.
Cruise and Dig the bigger splashes no doubt. Bob Huang's UR Delver playing the full four of Cruise was the biggest "surprise" as most people seemed to only play one or two copies in various archetypes. I imagine that they were just skeptical about the powerlevel and didn't have enough time to fully test and make up their minds. For a lot of people last week's tournaments were probably a bulk of their testing of the new cards. Numbers will go up for sure though, these cards are the real deal.
Swiftspear is cute. It's a better Goblin Guide in the context of UR Delver, but UR Delver still has the problems of UR Delver, in that you're still playing a Delver deck that lacks in raw power compared to the three color variants. The extreme aggression that UR Delver uses is effective, but some times you just lose because your opponent's cardboard does things that are impossible for you to effectively handle. Like, there are times when your opponent protects a Stoneforge Mystic and you just lose. Bob Huang said himself that he wouldn't play UR Delver despite it being the best choice that week.
I don't think I'd make that comparison. Part of what makes Dismember really fantastic is how splashable it is, one doesn't even need black to run it.
I wish this card hadn't been printed. Remember the good old days when you had to earn your card advantage in Legacy, and card selection defined the format? I do, and I miss them.
It used to be a lot of work to 2-for-1 somebody. You had to kill something with Baleful Strix, connect on a Hymn to Tourach, or get Griselbrand on the table.
I don't like the card. I think I liked TNN better than this. Just to be clear, I am not discussing a banning, I am discussing the distasteful effects of one Khans card in Legacy.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10443&iddeck=76187
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12681&iddeck=92994
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10105&iddeck=73655
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams