Whatever the deck, I can't find a good reason to not main deck Flusterstorm over Spell Pierce.
I understand that Spell Pierce counters planeswalker and artifacts, but else than that how is it better than Flusterstorm? Is it really worth it in the end? To me it seems like Storm game 1 would be much more threating than a random planeswalker being cast, especially when you can run pure Counterspell like in UW Stoneblade or something.
It also stops Aether Vial turn one. If you're on the play. That's pretty meh to my eyes.
Do you guys have any experiences that could light me up?
I think that Pierce is just more versatile. Planeswalkers like Jace and Liliana aren't rare to see. Storm is just one deck, and even against storm, Flusterstorm isn't always better. It can be useful to counter LED. The dream scenario of Flusterstorming a storm spell isn't that easy, as they will often Duress away your disruption by the time they are trying to cast a big storm spell.
There's a reason pierce is one of the most played pieces of countermagic in the format and flusterstorm isn't. Countering walkers, artifacts, and enchantments give it a gigantic edge over flusterstorm. Flusterstorm is more narrow as well and the more narrow a card is in legacy the worse it becomes as legacy is quite diverse.
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DX.Arcana you are aware flusterstorm only counters instants and sorceries right? The way I am reading your comment it seems you think it can counter an aether vial. Hopefully clarification on that will aid in the answer you are seeking.
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I am indeed aware of that. I was talking about Spell Pierce when I talked about the Vial, saying I found this special utility of Spell Pierce a bit ''meh''. I'm mostly questionning how the added value on Spell Pierce hitting enchantments, planeswalker and artifacts is worth it over what I think to be a much better counterspell starting as soon as turn 3.
I know Spell Pierce is more played than Flusterstorm and I'm really trying to understand why. You guys seem to have experience on it, telling me the versatility compensate for the lack of power. I'll just trust you and see after a few games the situations where Flusterstorm could have saved me over Spell Pierce.
Another way you could look at it is to consider dispel. It theoretically stops most things that you want/need it to, but it is extremely focused on what it can do. There is no guarantee that every deck is going to play some "game winning instant" that you can counter. Spell pierce gives you the greatest amount of answers for the least investment. You can add the laser pointed answers in game 2 if you truly need them. Versatility is a big part of the game now as deck variety continues to increase, and spell pierce offers that.
As an aside, the only deck I can think of that would play flusterstorm main is high tide for fairly obvious reasons.
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Versatility is often worth more than raw power in Legacy, considering the variety of decks you're likely going to see in a given tournament. Spell Pierce being playable against virtually everyone is a huge bonus even if Flusterstorm is more powerful when its good. And even where the difference comes up, Pierce is still very good in the matchup - if you know how to play against Storm well, you can cripple their going-off turn by Piercing a Ritual or LED or something just as well as by Flusterstorming the actual Storm card. Even when they can pay for it, that might leave them without enough mana to finish their chain. Flusterstorm gives you the luxury of making them use up all their resources first, and not having to think about where to break up the combo, but at the expense of being much less useful in most of your other matchups.
For one mana, you get a counterspell with gaping holes in its ability. The trick is to find the spell the complements the rest of the deck in such a way that its flaws are mitigated. RUG wants Spell Pierce because it is busy killing your mana supply. Solidarity High Tide gives the nod to Flusterstorm because it fears other blue decks, and not so much permanents. Most decks are not as neatly wrapped as these two. Thus the conundrum.
Seeing as how we don't know your deck or your opponents, we can't know which is better. Neither is superior in a vacuum.
I don't know, I think Spell Pierce is probably going to be better most of the time.
Flusterstorm is only really better when the counterspell is being used defensively, to prevent some backbreaking spell resolving: an opposing Show and Tell when one's grip is void of meaningful interaction with the accompanying permanent, perhaps an Infernal Tutor or Tendrils of Agony. It easily wins defensive counter wars. The real reason that Tide and similar decks run the Fluster is not so much that they want to accumulate density to prevail in the counterwar, once they go off, but as defense against other, faster, combo decks.
Protecting one's combo from counterspells is more easily accomplished by Defense Grid than Flusterstorm anyway, as it can be dropped fairly freely prior to the fundamental turn, possibly with enough mana to pay for taxing counters like Spell Pierce. A hand of Daze, Fluster, Blast doesn't look so hot against an Island, City of Traitors, Defense Grid. Folks stop running the Grid and run Flusterstorm in those blue combo sideboards when they expect a meta unfair enough to make the defensive capabilities of the Flusterstorm desirable.
@DX
It's worth noting that countering a 3-4 mana walker for 1 mana is a huge tempo gain if you can take advantage of it. Hitting a Sylvan Library or Top may well keep the opponent from digging their Decay up or drawing through the garbage on top of the library. I'm not even big on Flusterstorm in the sideboard honestly. It's slightly better in the Counter-war but that war only occurs if you can counter it in the first place. If you have FS and they drop Sneak; you're dead on board. With Pierce you can at least force them to have a counter or mana.
I was just noticing the other day how bad Fluster was when watching an Esper Miracles. It's sad to see how many things you can't counter that can cost you the game. Batterskull (after they've bounced it), Jace, Lily, Counterbalance, Top, Library, etc.. And if you think FS is getting there against Terminus I think you'll be sorely mistaken most of the time.
Spell Pierce is seriously good. Flusterstorm has it's place, but most of the time it can be replaced by either permanent-based disruption (as Lormander points out) or by Spell Pierce. Pierce is already missing half of the win cons in Legacy.
To second Snikelfritz: If raw power were what mattered here; every deck would still run Goyf. Instead decks run Thalia, Confidant, DRS, QPM, ScOoze, and other utility critters because most problems can be solved by having an array of options while having a 4/5 vanilla can't. TNN is another example. Why run TNN if you can run Geist/Goyf? Because TNN is a blocker, attacker, who won't go away and isn't dead on board.
They both have their uses. In some ways you could look at how and when to use it. Spell Pierce is a great counter for early game and if utilized right can be useful late game as well. like many have mentioned. Stopping turn 1 or 2, one or two drops that Flusterstorm cant stop. Just to name a few like Aether Vial, Defense Grid, Cranial Plating, Jitte, Lotus Petal or a a power Sword that came out early with Mox Opal. Even stopping a turn 4 Sneak Attack, Jace TMS, Splinter Twin is huge. Even if a spell isnt countered making the pay that extra 2 mana can come in handy stopping/delaying anything else that could come out.
Legacy has access to so many good and situational counters. Try to build a deck with 40 counters just for the fun of it and you'll definitely see the advantages/useful of what some counters have over the others. Either way if you feel your deck and play style would favor Flusterstorm over Spell Pierce go with that. Play test both and see which one comes in more handy for you.
You know its funny to see this topic because i was getting my omnitell deck rdy for an scg and i decided to maindeck either 2 pierce or 2 fluster and i ended going with pierce just because it does more for you. at the end of the day pierce is just going to hit more priority targets if i dont have a force.
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In Onmi Tell, I'd consider Flusterstorm a bit more than in say RUG, or Stoneblade. Just because similarly to High Tide, winning a counter war is very important to the deck and there aren't many non creatures that Flusterstorm can't hit that you care about. Especially in game 1.
The argument in favor of playing flusterstorm in a tempo deck would be that it is better at handling storm. But that argument only works if the meta you are playing in regularly puts you up against a lot of storm decks. Hence, spell pierce.
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I understand that Spell Pierce counters planeswalker and artifacts, but else than that how is it better than Flusterstorm? Is it really worth it in the end? To me it seems like Storm game 1 would be much more threating than a random planeswalker being cast, especially when you can run pure Counterspell like in UW Stoneblade or something.
It also stops Aether Vial turn one. If you're on the play. That's pretty meh to my eyes.
Do you guys have any experiences that could light me up?
Spell Pierce is better is most situations, I think; and in situations more likely to come up.
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I know Spell Pierce is more played than Flusterstorm and I'm really trying to understand why. You guys seem to have experience on it, telling me the versatility compensate for the lack of power. I'll just trust you and see after a few games the situations where Flusterstorm could have saved me over Spell Pierce.
As an aside, the only deck I can think of that would play flusterstorm main is high tide for fairly obvious reasons.
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Seeing as how we don't know your deck or your opponents, we can't know which is better. Neither is superior in a vacuum.
Flusterstorm is only really better when the counterspell is being used defensively, to prevent some backbreaking spell resolving: an opposing Show and Tell when one's grip is void of meaningful interaction with the accompanying permanent, perhaps an Infernal Tutor or Tendrils of Agony. It easily wins defensive counter wars. The real reason that Tide and similar decks run the Fluster is not so much that they want to accumulate density to prevail in the counterwar, once they go off, but as defense against other, faster, combo decks.
Protecting one's combo from counterspells is more easily accomplished by Defense Grid than Flusterstorm anyway, as it can be dropped fairly freely prior to the fundamental turn, possibly with enough mana to pay for taxing counters like Spell Pierce. A hand of Daze, Fluster, Blast doesn't look so hot against an Island, City of Traitors, Defense Grid. Folks stop running the Grid and run Flusterstorm in those blue combo sideboards when they expect a meta unfair enough to make the defensive capabilities of the Flusterstorm desirable.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
It's worth noting that countering a 3-4 mana walker for 1 mana is a huge tempo gain if you can take advantage of it. Hitting a Sylvan Library or Top may well keep the opponent from digging their Decay up or drawing through the garbage on top of the library. I'm not even big on Flusterstorm in the sideboard honestly. It's slightly better in the Counter-war but that war only occurs if you can counter it in the first place. If you have FS and they drop Sneak; you're dead on board. With Pierce you can at least force them to have a counter or mana.
I was just noticing the other day how bad Fluster was when watching an Esper Miracles. It's sad to see how many things you can't counter that can cost you the game. Batterskull (after they've bounced it), Jace, Lily, Counterbalance, Top, Library, etc.. And if you think FS is getting there against Terminus I think you'll be sorely mistaken most of the time.
Spell Pierce is seriously good. Flusterstorm has it's place, but most of the time it can be replaced by either permanent-based disruption (as Lormander points out) or by Spell Pierce. Pierce is already missing half of the win cons in Legacy.
To second Snikelfritz: If raw power were what mattered here; every deck would still run Goyf. Instead decks run Thalia, Confidant, DRS, QPM, ScOoze, and other utility critters because most problems can be solved by having an array of options while having a 4/5 vanilla can't. TNN is another example. Why run TNN if you can run Geist/Goyf? Because TNN is a blocker, attacker, who won't go away and isn't dead on board.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Legacy has access to so many good and situational counters. Try to build a deck with 40 counters just for the fun of it and you'll definitely see the advantages/useful of what some counters have over the others. Either way if you feel your deck and play style would favor Flusterstorm over Spell Pierce go with that. Play test both and see which one comes in more handy for you.
I've had to start bringing my own bird tokens just because of this.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI