Are we living in a world where U/R Delver doesn't win SCG Opens? Aside from local tournaments where I have done well with Burn and U/R Delver I'm just at a loss as to why this is a discussion. You can make some kind of argument for why you don't like Goblin Guide, but it works well in this meta as clearly demonstrated by major tournament results. This is a thing: http://tcdecks.net/tipo.php?archetype=UR Burn&format=Legacy
Anyone who plays Burn or U/R Delver knows Goblin Guide is one of, if not the, best turn one plays you can make.
but the most important part is that it gets your opponent past that dead land drop and into the gas they need to beat you.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Obviously Goblin Guide is good, but people are misunderstanding what his effect actually is on the person being attacked. It's similar to what people think of Courser and Oracle. He's not "just drawing you a land or two", he's drawing you a card or two when the top card of your library is a land. It might sound like the same thing, but it's really not. It's simply card draw in a conditional situation. He doesn't draw you an average of 1-2 lands for 6 points of damage, he draws you 1-2 cards for 6 points of damage.
I originally didnt want to use him when he first came out but since I started play testing him I will not go without him in any deck I run Red in (Burn, RDW, Gruul, Zoo, R/W, Boros, Goblins, U/R and even U/R Delver) and formats (Legacy, Standard, Modern).
Look at Goblin Guide this way, play test him. If you find like I have that he is more of a benefit then a curse then keep him. If not then dont put him your deck like any card. Heck you dont even have to buy him to play test him you can proxy him during testing so you dont have to spend the money before you decide or use the solitaire feature on TCG to test him. Solitaire your Burn deck and another deck your worried about facing then see how beneficial he is when he comes down.
Frankly he and Vexing Devil are the first cards I want from my deck as my turn 1 drop. And a few times Ive had GG turn 1 and GG turn 2 and was able to finish turn 3 with 10 damage from just from 2 GG. He's an MVP for me but if he aint working for someone else then they shouldnt use him.
but the most important part is that it gets your opponent past that dead land drop and into the gas they need to beat you.
'Past a dead land drop' is the wrong way to look at it. Imagine Goblin Guide said they reveal the bottom card of their library. If that library is shuffled, revealing a land on the bottom does almost exactly the same thing as revealing a land on the top. Their library has the same number of cards they want and one less card they don't want, so the chances of drawing something they want goes up a tiny bit. The land itself doesn't matter unless it was one of the cards they wanted.
Revealing from the top is different if it's not a land because you both know what they are going to draw. From the top is also different if they use Brainstorm or something to put a land on top. Without topdeck manipulation, handing them that land thins their deck by one and does nothing else unless they run out of lands to play and the extra land actually helps them.
So you accept possibly thinning their deck slightly, them possibly Brainstorming a land to the top as downsides. Then plan that the raw power Goblin Guide (along with the rest of your deck) will win the game before those downsides matter.
I originally didnt want to use him when he first came out but since I started play testing him I will not go without him in any deck I run Red in (Burn, RDW, Gruul, Zoo, R/W, Boros, Goblins, U/R and even U/R Delver) and formats (Legacy, Standard, Modern).
Frankly he and Vexing Devil are the first cards I want from my deck as my turn 1 drop. And a few times Ive had GG turn 1 and GG turn 2 and was able to finish turn 3 with 10 damage from just from 2 GG. He's an MVP for me but if he aint working for someone else then they shouldnt use him.
It's funny, I have a bunch of decks proxied up from past tournament wins. I have tested him and i just don't see him doing well in any games.
It's also funny, because i could actually imagine him AND vexing devil being good together, for the overload of "fast and dumb" but they seem terrible on their own.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Well Goblin Guide clearly is fine in the right deck or people wouldn't be winning SCG Opens with him. So you may not personally like him but the fact is it is a very effective card in the right deck and is much, much better than Vexing Devil.
Goblin guide is insanely good. If you don't draw them a land, it's free info. The best is when you stick goblin guide against someone who is land screwed and you don't flip over lands/see their draws and how dead they are. If you draw them a land big deal the opponent is likely not able to turn that land into a game winner against a burn deck hell they play price of progress so that land could help them. Goblin guide on turn 1 is the best turn 1 play burn has on the play with ease. So your opponent drew a land on the draw. They're likely pitching a card in the cleanup step then/all guide did was allow them to loot once. Guide regularly deals 4+ damage for a single mana. That's more efficient than every other card in burn except fireblast since fireblast costs zero. Including lightning bolt, one of the most powerful cards in the game.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Well, keep in mind that Burn isn't exactly an amazing deck. Goblin Guide is a very powerful card...
It's my claim that goblin guide is not a powerful card, and that its continual inclusion is one of the reasons that burn isn't a good deck.
Some context would be helpful here. What deck are you playing? How is the Burn deck constructed? There are two main Goblin Guide decks, UR Delver and mono-red Burn. The context is very important.
As Namida pointed out, mono-red Burn is a deck with some strong matchups but many poor ones. Perhaps you're just playing a deck with a great burn matchup, skewing your perception.
Finally, you're not thinking about this from the Burn player's perspective. The Philosophy of Fire states that you want to trade your cards for your opponents life. On that axis, Attacking with creatures actually represents card advantage for the Burn player. Shock is a card, right? Every GG attack is like a free Shock, so you drawing a card to offset that actually is parity, not CA for you.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
For someone who has been playing since Legends you should know the definitions of tempo and sligh.
For someone who insults random people on the internet, i guess i'm not surprised that you think giving your opponent ~2 cards for 6 damage is good tempo.
Originally, nobody wanted to play with Goblin Guide because they see it giving the opponent 2 cards for 6 damage... But when we break down the grand design of Legacy, the Goblin Guide player has a 2/3 chance in looking at the players next draw and a 1/3 chance in giving the player a land.
I understand the insanity because I was one of the earlier players that pushed Goblin Guide as a burn staple and it was a nasty hill to climb because at the time most players did see the 2 card draw.
If your getting lucky with goblin guide that's more power to you, but there are a good number of players that cannot deal with a 2/2 haste attacker on the first turn or even the second turn... and usually I'm peeking at the next card.
vexing devil is playable in burn. Some like him and others dont. I think if your not playing grim lavamancer/fetch then it's best to play with vexing devil.
I'm not sure how "This card is 4-6 damage for 1 mana" isn't enough for Jugglervr to understand. It's a lot of damage. Further, he's at minimum a card-neutral shock when played right which is why he's good. If he didn't have haste he'd be another 2/x that just makes Rakdos Cackler look good. As mentioned at least twice in this thread, he will also only likely give someone one card, and if you give them a land for 6 damage; the gamble is quite worth it.
I'd go a lot further in regards to the "not a good deck" bit; but it's not worth discussing. It's a mix of no decision trees, hosed by cards that are used everywhere, reliant on PoP and bad opponents, and that were it even good enough to hate on; it can't fight the hate *at all.*
@the above
I like Devil slightly more with Lavamancer I think; since he provides a heap of burn and food for the mancer. He's like a guide who gets killed. With the GL you can also kill up to a 6/6 just fine.
Goblin Guide is good for the same reasons Dark Confidant is good. They are undercosted for their effect because they have a downside. But a skilled player and deckbuilder can minimize these downsides and take advantage of the raw power and versatility.
But a skilled player and deckbuilder can minimize these downsides and take advantage of the raw power and versatility.
This is absolutely correct and can be said for many cards. I would also add from my experience in using Goblin Guide the reward vs risk/pro vs con has been mainly on the positive side to where I wouldnt build certain decks without him. If someone doesnt want him in their deck thats fine.
I'm not sure how "This card is 4-6 damage for 1 mana" isn't enough for Jugglervr to understand.
Oh, I understand it alright, but you're forgetting to mention the "give your opponent a free dark confidant on your dime" downside in your little write-up.
Goblin guide is BAD for the same reasons Dark Confidant is GOOD. Both give card advantage in exchange for life. The only difference is that my opponent had to pay for and lose a card for the goblin guide, but I still get near-dark-confidant-level benefits from it.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Well Goblin Guide clearly is fine in the right deck or people wouldn't be winning SCG Opens with him. So you may not personally like him but the fact is it is a very effective card in the right deck and is much, much better than Vexing Devil.
OR... if people thought more about their inclusions and realized that it's a terrible card, the archetypes he's crippling would be winning a whole lot more than once in a blue moon.
In any case, I think we can /thread now. I definitely understand the guide, and why people erroneously think it's anything other than trash.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Well Goblin Guide clearly is fine in the right deck or people wouldn't be winning SCG Opens with him. So you may not personally like him but the fact is it is a very effective card in the right deck and is much, much better than Vexing Devil.
OR... if people thought more about their inclusions and realized that it's a terrible card, the archetypes he's crippling would be winning a whole lot more than once in a blue moon.
In any case, I think we can /thread now. I definitely understand the guide, and why people erroneously think it's anything other than trash.
Have you had to deal with three goblin guides turns 2? Even two can give burn a chance in bad match ups. He's an all in aggro card not mid-range, or control card. If the game has gone to turn 4+ the situation for the burn deck is already looking grim. He's a decent card in the right deck.
I'm not sure how "This card is 4-6 damage for 1 mana" isn't enough for Jugglervr to understand.
Oh, I understand it alright, but you're forgetting to mention the "give your opponent a free dark confidant on your dime" downside in your little write-up.
Dark Confidant is actually an actively bad card sometimes, such as when you're taking heavy damage. The card advantage it gives you starts to look a lot less impressive when you lose the game because of the life loss. And what does Burn do? It deals heavy damage.
A Dark Confidant being on the other side of the table is actually really good for a Burn player, because it just makes the Burn player have an easier time killing them. Even with fetchlands being so common, 20 life is actually a lot to go through, and anything that lowers how much life they have is great for a Burn player. Indeed, for this reason, Dark Confidant gives card advantage to your opponent if they're playing Burn. After all, the damage Dark Confidant deals you means they need fewer cards to kill you.
Goblin guide is BAD for the same reasons Dark Confidant is GOOD. Both give card advantage in exchange for life. The only difference is that my opponent had to pay for and lose a card for the goblin guide, but I still get near-dark-confidant-level benefits from it.
You've got it reversed for this. Goblin Guide is GOOD for the same reasons Dark Confidant is BAD. Well, okay, Dark Confidant is not bad. But it is bad in certain situations, as I indicated. It's not for nothing that you see players sometimes having to actually kill off their own Dark Confidant just so they don't die from it. Therefore, the situations in which Dark Confidant is bad are the situations where Goblin Guide is good. And a Burn deck is built to ensure those situations happen.
I'm not sure how "This card is 4-6 damage for 1 mana" isn't enough for Jugglervr to understand.
Oh, I understand it alright, but you're forgetting to mention the "give your opponent a free dark confidant on your dime" downside in your little write-up.
Goblin guide is BAD for the same reasons Dark Confidant is GOOD. Both give card advantage in exchange for life. The only difference is that my opponent had to pay for and lose a card for the goblin guide, but I still get near-dark-confidant-level benefits from it.
While you still haven't answered my question of what you would replace Goblin Guide with in Burn, I'd like to point out that if you draw a land from Dark Confidant every time, there's no damage. That's the game saying it's not that big of a deal that you're hitting your land drop every turn and removing lands from your deck.
I think this thread has concluded with 3 points. 1. Many value Goblin Guide as a must have in their deck, as its seen play in winning tournaments and/or placing high. 2. Your not gonna talk the OP into changing his mind about not liking it and thats fine to each his own. 3. End of Thread.
Since Im not going to continue to try and convince the OP on why Goblin Guide is more of an asset, here are some facts for those who maybe on the fence about Goblin Guide.
Here are a few examples of Goblin Guide in winning tournaments and/or placing high.
Burn Legacy Primer http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro/488613-burn
"Goblin Guide - Fastest aggro creature in the game. The best way to start a game is turn 1 Goblin Guide, turn 2, Goblin Guide. Sometimes, his drawback can actually be used to your advantage if your opponent reveals a card that tells you what deck they are on. Usually averages 4 damage throughout the game which is disgusting for the 1 red you pay."
Burn Modern Primer http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/219892-burn
"The Best creature in Burn, and played as a 4 of even in Legacy and Modern Burn decks that run no other creatures. He will usually swing in for at least 4 damage, sometimes as much as 6. He'll also give you a lot of information on your opponent's hand. If you have any in your opening hand, play them before any other spell, unless they play a must answer critter that needs to get bolted asap."
I agree with your general point, but your examples seem off. GPTs with less than 50 people? An SCG Open from 2 years ago? Why not point to the UR Delver deck that won SCG Knoxville (2 weeks ago) or the Monored Burn deck that got Top 8 at SCG Dallas (two months ago) instead? There's just way better finishes to point out than the ones you picked.
I'm not sure how "This card is 4-6 damage for 1 mana" isn't enough for Jugglervr to understand.
Oh, I understand it alright, but you're forgetting to mention the "give your opponent a free dark confidant on your dime" downside in your little write-up.
The place where I think your analogy fails is that a Dark Confidant under your opponent's control when you're playing a deck that only plays Shocks and Lightning Bolts is basically like having a Howling Mine in play 2/3 of the time, except that the Burn player essentially gets to cast their extra card for no mana. You're ignoring that a Burn deck is designed to make utilizing your life as a resource into a losing proposition, and you're implying that having tons of cards in your hand is somehow a bigger factor than that most of the cards in your hand effectively do nothing at all at the beginning of a game of Magic since you can only play one land a turn and you can only use as much mana as you have lands in play.
Frankly, I would personally jump for joy if I were playing a deck with 12 Bolts in it and I could get my opponent to play a Dark Confidant that only draws cards when you reveal lands but makes them take two damage every turn no matter what they reveal. However, that card would suck and I would have to pay my opponent to actually play a card like that (especially against a deck packed with three+ damage spells), which is why not many people are fist-pumping when they see that they are on the opposing end of a turn one Goblin Guide--it's just not the "Shoot yourself in the foot" card you're making it out to be.
This is almost obviously a troll post. If you dont understand the value of a 1 drop 2 power haste man in a sligh deck, then either you are trolling or you are lying about how long you have been playing.
This is almost obviously a troll post. If you dont understand the value of a 1 drop 2 power haste man in a sligh deck, then either you are trolling or you are lying about how long you have been playing.
Not a troll; I legitimately don't understand why such a bad card is considered playable, but, then, the first sligh deck used plenty of *****ty cards, too.
I just prefer the sligh decks that used cards that had drawbacks that it didn't care about. Jackal pup; i don't care about my life total. Mogg fanatic (back when he could kill a 2/x). NOT a 2/2 dork that gets my opponent past a land clump and into the gas that kills me or achieves board control.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
I just prefer the sligh decks that used cards that had drawbacks that it didn't care about. Jackal pup; i don't care about my life total. Mogg fanatic (back when he could kill a 2/x). NOT a 2/2 dork that gets my opponent past a land clump and into the gas that kills me or achieves board control.
Why do you care about your opponent getting past land clumps and drawing "gas?" What cards are you concerned you're drawing your opponent to?
Why do you care about your opponent getting past land clumps and drawing "gas?"
because I like to win games and one of the worst ways to do that is by giving your opponent more cards. There's a reason Library of Alexandria is on the restricted list in vintage: if you draw twice as many cards as your opponent, it becomes very hard for them to beat you.
If you have a creature that makes me draw 50% more cards than you do, and you paid your own mana and a card for it, and I only lose 2 for the gamble to go up a card, it's a very good day for me.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
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Anyone who plays Burn or U/R Delver knows Goblin Guide is one of, if not the, best turn one plays you can make.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
but the most important part is that it gets your opponent past that dead land drop and into the gas they need to beat you.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Look at Goblin Guide this way, play test him. If you find like I have that he is more of a benefit then a curse then keep him. If not then dont put him your deck like any card. Heck you dont even have to buy him to play test him you can proxy him during testing so you dont have to spend the money before you decide or use the solitaire feature on TCG to test him. Solitaire your Burn deck and another deck your worried about facing then see how beneficial he is when he comes down.
Frankly he and Vexing Devil are the first cards I want from my deck as my turn 1 drop. And a few times Ive had GG turn 1 and GG turn 2 and was able to finish turn 3 with 10 damage from just from 2 GG. He's an MVP for me but if he aint working for someone else then they shouldnt use him.
'Past a dead land drop' is the wrong way to look at it. Imagine Goblin Guide said they reveal the bottom card of their library. If that library is shuffled, revealing a land on the bottom does almost exactly the same thing as revealing a land on the top. Their library has the same number of cards they want and one less card they don't want, so the chances of drawing something they want goes up a tiny bit. The land itself doesn't matter unless it was one of the cards they wanted.
Revealing from the top is different if it's not a land because you both know what they are going to draw. From the top is also different if they use Brainstorm or something to put a land on top. Without topdeck manipulation, handing them that land thins their deck by one and does nothing else unless they run out of lands to play and the extra land actually helps them.
So you accept possibly thinning their deck slightly, them possibly Brainstorming a land to the top as downsides. Then plan that the raw power Goblin Guide (along with the rest of your deck) will win the game before those downsides matter.
It's funny, I have a bunch of decks proxied up from past tournament wins. I have tested him and i just don't see him doing well in any games.
It's also funny, because i could actually imagine him AND vexing devil being good together, for the overload of "fast and dumb" but they seem terrible on their own.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
Currently Playing:
Retired
Some context would be helpful here. What deck are you playing? How is the Burn deck constructed? There are two main Goblin Guide decks, UR Delver and mono-red Burn. The context is very important.
As Namida pointed out, mono-red Burn is a deck with some strong matchups but many poor ones. Perhaps you're just playing a deck with a great burn matchup, skewing your perception.
Finally, you're not thinking about this from the Burn player's perspective. The Philosophy of Fire states that you want to trade your cards for your opponents life. On that axis, Attacking with creatures actually represents card advantage for the Burn player. Shock is a card, right? Every GG attack is like a free Shock, so you drawing a card to offset that actually is parity, not CA for you.
Originally, nobody wanted to play with Goblin Guide because they see it giving the opponent 2 cards for 6 damage... But when we break down the grand design of Legacy, the Goblin Guide player has a 2/3 chance in looking at the players next draw and a 1/3 chance in giving the player a land.
I understand the insanity because I was one of the earlier players that pushed Goblin Guide as a burn staple and it was a nasty hill to climb because at the time most players did see the 2 card draw.
If your getting lucky with goblin guide that's more power to you, but there are a good number of players that cannot deal with a 2/2 haste attacker on the first turn or even the second turn... and usually I'm peeking at the next card.
vexing devil is playable in burn. Some like him and others dont. I think if your not playing grim lavamancer/fetch then it's best to play with vexing devil.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
I'd go a lot further in regards to the "not a good deck" bit; but it's not worth discussing. It's a mix of no decision trees, hosed by cards that are used everywhere, reliant on PoP and bad opponents, and that were it even good enough to hate on; it can't fight the hate *at all.*
@the above
I like Devil slightly more with Lavamancer I think; since he provides a heap of burn and food for the mancer. He's like a guide who gets killed. With the GL you can also kill up to a 6/6 just fine.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
This is absolutely correct and can be said for many cards. I would also add from my experience in using Goblin Guide the reward vs risk/pro vs con has been mainly on the positive side to where I wouldnt build certain decks without him. If someone doesnt want him in their deck thats fine.
Oh, I understand it alright, but you're forgetting to mention the "give your opponent a free dark confidant on your dime" downside in your little write-up.
Goblin guide is BAD for the same reasons Dark Confidant is GOOD. Both give card advantage in exchange for life. The only difference is that my opponent had to pay for and lose a card for the goblin guide, but I still get near-dark-confidant-level benefits from it.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
OR... if people thought more about their inclusions and realized that it's a terrible card, the archetypes he's crippling would be winning a whole lot more than once in a blue moon.
In any case, I think we can /thread now. I definitely understand the guide, and why people erroneously think it's anything other than trash.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Have you had to deal with three goblin guides turns 2? Even two can give burn a chance in bad match ups. He's an all in aggro card not mid-range, or control card. If the game has gone to turn 4+ the situation for the burn deck is already looking grim. He's a decent card in the right deck.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Dark Confidant is actually an actively bad card sometimes, such as when you're taking heavy damage. The card advantage it gives you starts to look a lot less impressive when you lose the game because of the life loss. And what does Burn do? It deals heavy damage.
A Dark Confidant being on the other side of the table is actually really good for a Burn player, because it just makes the Burn player have an easier time killing them. Even with fetchlands being so common, 20 life is actually a lot to go through, and anything that lowers how much life they have is great for a Burn player. Indeed, for this reason, Dark Confidant gives card advantage to your opponent if they're playing Burn. After all, the damage Dark Confidant deals you means they need fewer cards to kill you.
You've got it reversed for this. Goblin Guide is GOOD for the same reasons Dark Confidant is BAD. Well, okay, Dark Confidant is not bad. But it is bad in certain situations, as I indicated. It's not for nothing that you see players sometimes having to actually kill off their own Dark Confidant just so they don't die from it. Therefore, the situations in which Dark Confidant is bad are the situations where Goblin Guide is good. And a Burn deck is built to ensure those situations happen.
While you still haven't answered my question of what you would replace Goblin Guide with in Burn, I'd like to point out that if you draw a land from Dark Confidant every time, there's no damage. That's the game saying it's not that big of a deal that you're hitting your land drop every turn and removing lands from your deck.
Since Im not going to continue to try and convince the OP on why Goblin Guide is more of an asset, here are some facts for those who maybe on the fence about Goblin Guide.
Here are a few examples of Goblin Guide in winning tournaments and/or placing high.
1st Place at StarCityGames.com Legacy Open on 1/22/2012
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23732-Legacy-Week-Burn.html
(1st Place)
Modern Premier #7051765 on 05/05/2014
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/7051765
2nd Place GPT Vienna
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6730&d=238646&f=MO
1st Place GPT Paris
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6273&f=MO
Goblin Guide in MTG Salvation Primers
Burn Legacy Primer
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/aggro/488613-burn
"Goblin Guide - Fastest aggro creature in the game. The best way to start a game is turn 1 Goblin Guide, turn 2, Goblin Guide. Sometimes, his drawback can actually be used to your advantage if your opponent reveals a card that tells you what deck they are on. Usually averages 4 damage throughout the game which is disgusting for the 1 red you pay."
Burn Modern Primer
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/219892-burn
"The Best creature in Burn, and played as a 4 of even in Legacy and Modern Burn decks that run no other creatures. He will usually swing in for at least 4 damage, sometimes as much as 6. He'll also give you a lot of information on your opponent's hand. If you have any in your opening hand, play them before any other spell, unless they play a must answer critter that needs to get bolted asap."
Goblins Legacy Primer
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/primers/175640-primer-decks-goblins
"- Goblin Guide - The second of the two 1cmc guys you should make an effort to get. He is a 2/2 haste for just R. It doesn't get much better than hiting your opponent before they can play a land. His second effect is negligible because of the goblins' speed."
Goblins Modern Primer
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/220256-goblins
"Goblin Guide: Staple one-drop in any red aggro deck since he’s been printed. As efficient a source of early damage as they come. Not much more to say that hasn’t been said elsewhere."
The place where I think your analogy fails is that a Dark Confidant under your opponent's control when you're playing a deck that only plays Shocks and Lightning Bolts is basically like having a Howling Mine in play 2/3 of the time, except that the Burn player essentially gets to cast their extra card for no mana. You're ignoring that a Burn deck is designed to make utilizing your life as a resource into a losing proposition, and you're implying that having tons of cards in your hand is somehow a bigger factor than that most of the cards in your hand effectively do nothing at all at the beginning of a game of Magic since you can only play one land a turn and you can only use as much mana as you have lands in play.
Frankly, I would personally jump for joy if I were playing a deck with 12 Bolts in it and I could get my opponent to play a Dark Confidant that only draws cards when you reveal lands but makes them take two damage every turn no matter what they reveal. However, that card would suck and I would have to pay my opponent to actually play a card like that (especially against a deck packed with three+ damage spells), which is why not many people are fist-pumping when they see that they are on the opposing end of a turn one Goblin Guide--it's just not the "Shoot yourself in the foot" card you're making it out to be.
Not a troll; I legitimately don't understand why such a bad card is considered playable, but, then, the first sligh deck used plenty of *****ty cards, too.
I just prefer the sligh decks that used cards that had drawbacks that it didn't care about. Jackal pup; i don't care about my life total. Mogg fanatic (back when he could kill a 2/x). NOT a 2/2 dork that gets my opponent past a land clump and into the gas that kills me or achieves board control.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Why do you care about your opponent getting past land clumps and drawing "gas?" What cards are you concerned you're drawing your opponent to?
because I like to win games and one of the worst ways to do that is by giving your opponent more cards. There's a reason Library of Alexandria is on the restricted list in vintage: if you draw twice as many cards as your opponent, it becomes very hard for them to beat you.
If you have a creature that makes me draw 50% more cards than you do, and you paid your own mana and a card for it, and I only lose 2 for the gamble to go up a card, it's a very good day for me.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!