Specifically, please help me understand why it's not utter trash? It seems awful to me. I've been playing since Legends, took a break at Time Spiral. Now I'm back and this dumbass is the biggest surprise for me in the legacy meta.
To put it in perspective, if I had a leyline that cost zero and said: "At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land, put it into your hand. You lose 2 life. <br> When [this] enters the battlefield, during your opponent's next main phase, tap one of their lands before they receive priority. They discard a card." I would play it in every deck. Oh, you want to give me a dark confidant? Thanks!
I have played a bunch on cockatrice, a lot of paper testing, and in a few local tournaments and this guy has NEVER contributed to victory for my opponent or for myself. I always block him last, so i can keep riding the "free cards" train, and lo and behold, he gets me past my land clumps to the spells I need to win. I just don't understand why you'd ever play a card that gets your opponent to their good cards faster.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
It's a one mana creature that often deals 6+ damage over the course of a game.
Burn decks couldn't care less how many cards are in your hand when you die, after all. You're dead, and don't get to cast them.
The funny thing is, when I play against burn decks and they don't land a goblin guide, I find myself in trouble, but when they do, i find all my answers, including all my creature kill that's suddenly not blanked.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
It's a one mana creature that often deals 6+ damage over the course of a game.
Burn decks couldn't care less how many cards are in your hand when you die, after all. You're dead, and don't get to cast them.
The funny thing is, when I play against burn decks and they don't land a goblin guide, I find myself in trouble, but when they do, i find all my answers, including all my creature kill that's suddenly not blanked.
People misplay Goblin Guide a lot, if you watch Andrew Schnidier play him and how paitent he is with attacking at times you can really see a master class on how to play U/R Delver, which is really Goblin Guides shines. Don't get me wrong he is good in burn, but doesn't have the same role
When it comes to the OP, it just seems like your deck is not soft to Goblin Guide which is great for you. But he is very efficant at what he does and can put up a lot of damage against the decks that can't easily interact with him.
For example you playing Burn against Storm and your on the play, first turn you Goblin Guide and swing for two, next turn you swing for two and double bolt. The storm player is now on one land and is a ten life for three cards. Very efficent.
For example your playing burn againt nic fit and your on the draw. he plays a vertern explorer. Goblin Guide now sucks.
Card is very efficant but is not great in all matchups such as what your playing
For someone who has been playing since Legends you should know the definitions of tempo and sligh.
For someone who insults random people on the internet, i guess i'm not surprised that you think giving your opponent ~2 cards for 6 damage is good tempo.
People misplay Goblin Guide a lot, if you watch Andrew Schnidier play him and how paitent he is with attacking at times you can really see a master class on how to play U/R Delver, which is really Goblin Guides shines.
got a link? i could google but if you know of a good example off the top of your head, it would save some time.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
For someone who has been playing since Legends you should know the definitions of tempo and sligh.
The card is very efficient for the amount of damage it provides and mana it costs, and is also completely mono-red, not requiring other colors like Zoo's creatures.
If you feel insulted its coming from your own personal insecurity.
1 mana for 6 damage. The cards get are irrelevant in the damage race. With the logic you're using why use force of will it makes you use an extra card. Why use fetchlands, you have to pay a life to use it.
The card is very efficient for the amount of damage it provides and mana it costs, and is also completely mono-red, not requiring other colors like Zoo's creatures.
So is vexing devil, but nobody plays with it. I actually feel the devil is better because it actually kills mongoose and germ tokens (if it lands), and doesn't let my opponent get free cards, but I still wouldn't use either.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
There's two factors at work:
1. The tempo deck's CA is realized at the end of the game, where you are dead with cards in your hand you couldn't play. You're still limited to one land drop per turn, no matter how many extra cards you've gotten off the guide.
2. The cards gotten from guide aren't free, they each cost on average about 3 life. We should all know now how 1 life per card is awesome (necro, arena) and 2 life per card is decent, but 3 life is a bit too much. To a burn oriented deck, 3 damage translates *directly* to a card, so you're actually card-even, not ahead.
The card is very efficient for the amount of damage it provides and mana it costs, and is also completely mono-red, not requiring other colors like Zoo's creatures.
So is vexing devil, but nobody plays with it. I actually feel the devil is better because it actually kills mongoose and germ tokens (if it lands), and doesn't let my opponent get free cards, but I still wouldn't use either.
Vexing Devil actually is relatively common in Burn.
What would you use in place of those two creatures?
The card is very efficient for the amount of damage it provides and mana it costs, and is also completely mono-red, not requiring other colors like Zoo's creatures.
So is vexing devil, but nobody plays with it. I actually feel the devil is better because it actually kills mongoose and germ tokens (if it lands), and doesn't let my opponent get free cards, but I still wouldn't use either.
EDIT: Devil will never kill a germ token, because if it does, that means they gained four life, and unless you have enough instant-speed burn to kill them on the spot, you are not winning that game. Versus Thresh, Devil isn't going to land until about the same point that they would have a 4/5 Goyf, so it's rarely getting through there. Goblin Guide can get through early Mongeese and Delvers if it's deployed Turn 1, and Grim Lavamancer makes destroying Delver easy.
Personally, in Legacy Burn, the only creatures I like are 4x Goblin Guide and 4x Grim Lavamancer. That allows you to SB Ensnaring Bridge and Searing Blaze/Blood, which allows you to turn into a control deck with an aggressive plan, while blanking removal and presenting cards that certain decks simply cannot defeat without a very good knowledge of Burn sideboard strategy.
Vexing Devil actually is relatively common in Burn.
What would you use in place of those two creatures?
Vexing Devil is a punisher card, where the best mode (turn 1, sac for 4 damage) is generally equal to a turn 1 Goblin Guide (swing twice for 4 total). Drawing either late game is not great, but Guide has the ability to do more then 4 damage and with Grim and Searing Blaze, you can encourage that. Devil, when drawn late, will either hit the field and be destroyed by Lightning Bolt/STP/Decay, be blocked by a TNN or Batterskull. If they have any life remaining they'll choose whichever option is better. It's the main reason why punisher cards simply don't work unless both options are almost identical.
Devil is also much more common in Modern, where doing 4 damage for R is more important, and Bolting it Turn 1 can cost three life by itself. However, in a format dominated by Bolt, Helix, and Kitchen Finks, I would not be comfortable playing it.
EDIT: Devil will never kill a germ token, because if it does, that means they gained four life, and unless you have enough instant-speed burn to kill them on the spot, you are not winning that game. Versus Thresh, Devil isn't going to land until about the same point that they would have a 4/5 Goyf, so it's rarely getting through there. Goblin Guide can get through early Mongeese and Delvers if it's deployed Turn 1, and Grim Lavamancer makes destroying Delver easy.
Personally, in Legacy Burn, the only creatures I like are 4x Goblin Guide and 4x Grim Lavamancer. That allows you to SB Ensnaring Bridge and Searing Blaze/Blood, which allows you to turn into a control deck with an aggressive plan, while blanking removal and presenting cards that certain decks simply cannot defeat without a very good knowledge of Burn sideboard strategy.
The Vexing Devil discussion is a little off topic. I'd like to know what Juggle would replace Goblin Guide with that still keeps burns clock where it is?
Going T1 Goblin Guide is probably the best play possible on the play for a burn deck. Who cares if i let you draw a land or 2 for free when i killed you T3 and you never got to play them.
Without a doubt, a T1 GG is problematic and often part of a winning strategy for Burn. Arguments are always made that it doesn't matter if you have extra cards in hand if your are dead. While that is true, what we rarely hear about is when burn can't finish someone off and those extra cards your opponent drew actually meant something.
Well, keep in mind that Burn isn't exactly an amazing deck. Goblin Guide is a very powerful card, and budget decks have to leverage powerful cards where they can. Even though Guide has a drawback that can totally bite you back, it's still strong enough to be worth using. Burn needs all the power it can get.
Goblin Guide is a fantastic one drop and thrives for me in every deck (Burn, RDW, Gruul, Zoo, R/W, Boros, Goblins, U/R and even U/R Delver) and formats (Legacy, Standard, Modern) Ive run any Red in. Anytime you want speed/blitz style playing you want creatures like that. The whole card thing can be a draw back and a blessing. Give them land and/or see what their next card is.
Well, keep in mind that Burn isn't exactly an amazing deck. Goblin Guide is a very powerful card...
It's my claim that goblin guide is not a powerful card, and that its continual inclusion is one of the reasons that burn isn't a good deck.
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Here are the little self-imposed guidelines I'm working with for the multiplayer decks I've been building:
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Going T1 Goblin Guide is probably the best play possible on the play for a burn deck. Who cares if i let you draw a land or 2 for free when i killed you T3 and you never got to play them.
The card advantage? Yeah, probably doesn't matter... but it can draw them past a clump into their lifegain. Or gave them the lands they needed to play said solution cards.
It's a gambler's card. It says "I don't think there's anything in your deck you could draw that could stop me from winning this game" and then gives them a better chance to draw whatever it is that might save them.
It's also a 2 power haste creature for 1 mana, which is off the charts for aggression. It's a great card against decks and situations Burn is good against, and a liability when you're behind.
It's the most efficient one mana, two power red creature the deck can run except for Jackal Pup. Red decks that use it want to maximize their damage as much as possible, and do not care about any extra cards the opponent draws, because damage is king for them.
Well, keep in mind that Burn isn't exactly an amazing deck. Goblin Guide is a very powerful card...
It's my claim that goblin guide is not a powerful card, and that its continual inclusion is one of the reasons that burn isn't a good deck.
Burn is 100% a metagame deck that people play no matter what the metagame looks like because the deck is not expensive (compared to other Legacy decks). Basically, I have seen people win entire tournaments with decks filled with bad red cards just because they had Goblin Guide in the deck to open with and Price of Progress in their deck to draw to. The potential damage output from both of those cards is so high that I've seen little kids dismantle Tier 1 decks with piles of cards featuring Standard RDW all-stars like Legion Loyalist, Mogg Fanatic, no Chain Lightnings, etc.
Burn decks have no real method of card advantage other than "Just kill your opponent before they can cast cards," and no real method of card selection so each card has to be pretty effective on its own to be worthy of its inclusion in your burn deck. In this way, Goblin Guide is the deck's best turn one play, because it's fast (comes down on turn one, has haste), and the damage output on the card has no limit (even if it only attacks twice, that's above the curve for a one mana spell). I would gladly give my opponents cards that shouldn't matter most of the time, because most of Burn's losses come from how it runs out of steam and gives the opponent time for their naturally better cards just take over and crush the Burn player--it isn't usually because you get wiped out by your opponent's anti-red silver bullets.
The philosophy of the Burn deck is that (for the most part) you just don't care about what the opponent has or does. There are only a handful of cards out of any given deck that can really hinder the Burn deck's game plan, and the odds of helping draw into one of those few cards are fairly low and outweighed by the increased speed Guide provides. You may lose a small percentage of games because the opponent drew into something one turn earlier, but you'll win a significantly larger percentage of games where Guide did six damage for one mana and didn't give away anything relevant. And gaining a bit of information along the way is worth mentioning.
You have to keep in mind that the situations where Goblin Guide only gets in one attack before getting removed are going to look more common to you because you're the one playing the removal deck. From your side of the table, most other creatures look just as ineffective. From the Burn player's side, that removal doesn't show up as often as you seem to think.
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To put it in perspective, if I had a leyline that cost zero and said: "At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. If it's a land, put it into your hand. You lose 2 life. <br> When [this] enters the battlefield, during your opponent's next main phase, tap one of their lands before they receive priority. They discard a card." I would play it in every deck. Oh, you want to give me a dark confidant? Thanks!
I have played a bunch on cockatrice, a lot of paper testing, and in a few local tournaments and this guy has NEVER contributed to victory for my opponent or for myself. I always block him last, so i can keep riding the "free cards" train, and lo and behold, he gets me past my land clumps to the spells I need to win. I just don't understand why you'd ever play a card that gets your opponent to their good cards faster.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
Burn decks couldn't care less how many cards are in your hand when you die, after all. You're dead, and don't get to cast them.
The funny thing is, when I play against burn decks and they don't land a goblin guide, I find myself in trouble, but when they do, i find all my answers, including all my creature kill that's suddenly not blanked.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
People misplay Goblin Guide a lot, if you watch Andrew Schnidier play him and how paitent he is with attacking at times you can really see a master class on how to play U/R Delver, which is really Goblin Guides shines. Don't get me wrong he is good in burn, but doesn't have the same role
When it comes to the OP, it just seems like your deck is not soft to Goblin Guide which is great for you. But he is very efficant at what he does and can put up a lot of damage against the decks that can't easily interact with him.
For example you playing Burn against Storm and your on the play, first turn you Goblin Guide and swing for two, next turn you swing for two and double bolt. The storm player is now on one land and is a ten life for three cards. Very efficent.
For example your playing burn againt nic fit and your on the draw. he plays a vertern explorer. Goblin Guide now sucks.
Card is very efficant but is not great in all matchups such as what your playing
For someone who insults random people on the internet, i guess i'm not surprised that you think giving your opponent ~2 cards for 6 damage is good tempo.
got a link? i could google but if you know of a good example off the top of your head, it would save some time.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
The card is very efficient for the amount of damage it provides and mana it costs, and is also completely mono-red, not requiring other colors like Zoo's creatures.
1 mana for 6 damage. The cards get are irrelevant in the damage race. With the logic you're using why use force of will it makes you use an extra card. Why use fetchlands, you have to pay a life to use it.
So is vexing devil, but nobody plays with it. I actually feel the devil is better because it actually kills mongoose and germ tokens (if it lands), and doesn't let my opponent get free cards, but I still wouldn't use either.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
1. The tempo deck's CA is realized at the end of the game, where you are dead with cards in your hand you couldn't play. You're still limited to one land drop per turn, no matter how many extra cards you've gotten off the guide.
2. The cards gotten from guide aren't free, they each cost on average about 3 life. We should all know now how 1 life per card is awesome (necro, arena) and 2 life per card is decent, but 3 life is a bit too much. To a burn oriented deck, 3 damage translates *directly* to a card, so you're actually card-even, not ahead.
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Vexing Devil actually is relatively common in Burn.
What would you use in place of those two creatures?
Vexing Devil is a punisher card, where the best mode (turn 1, sac for 4 damage) is generally equal to a turn 1 Goblin Guide (swing twice for 4 total). Drawing either late game is not great, but Guide has the ability to do more then 4 damage and with Grim and Searing Blaze, you can encourage that. Devil, when drawn late, will either hit the field and be destroyed by Lightning Bolt/STP/Decay, be blocked by a TNN or Batterskull. If they have any life remaining they'll choose whichever option is better. It's the main reason why punisher cards simply don't work unless both options are almost identical.
Devil is also much more common in Modern, where doing 4 damage for R is more important, and Bolting it Turn 1 can cost three life by itself. However, in a format dominated by Bolt, Helix, and Kitchen Finks, I would not be comfortable playing it.
EDIT: Devil will never kill a germ token, because if it does, that means they gained four life, and unless you have enough instant-speed burn to kill them on the spot, you are not winning that game. Versus Thresh, Devil isn't going to land until about the same point that they would have a 4/5 Goyf, so it's rarely getting through there. Goblin Guide can get through early Mongeese and Delvers if it's deployed Turn 1, and Grim Lavamancer makes destroying Delver easy.
Personally, in Legacy Burn, the only creatures I like are 4x Goblin Guide and 4x Grim Lavamancer. That allows you to SB Ensnaring Bridge and Searing Blaze/Blood, which allows you to turn into a control deck with an aggressive plan, while blanking removal and presenting cards that certain decks simply cannot defeat without a very good knowledge of Burn sideboard strategy.
It's my claim that goblin guide is not a powerful card, and that its continual inclusion is one of the reasons that burn isn't a good deck.
• Must be cheap. Total price tag < $100, preferably < $50. Ideally ~$30. No one card greater than about ~$6
• Format: Modern (makes getting the cards somewhat easier for the play group, and almost all my cards are Modern-legal)
• Must be relatively interesting in 1:1 games. I don't need to win against Splinter Twin, but I should be able to play duels now and then
• Avoid instant-win combos; they only serve to make me target #1, and then the deck is worse than useless because I get killed first, every time
• Must have a funny name!
The card advantage? Yeah, probably doesn't matter... but it can draw them past a clump into their lifegain. Or gave them the lands they needed to play said solution cards.
It's a gambler's card. It says "I don't think there's anything in your deck you could draw that could stop me from winning this game" and then gives them a better chance to draw whatever it is that might save them.
It's also a 2 power haste creature for 1 mana, which is off the charts for aggression. It's a great card against decks and situations Burn is good against, and a liability when you're behind.
Burn is 100% a metagame deck that people play no matter what the metagame looks like because the deck is not expensive (compared to other Legacy decks). Basically, I have seen people win entire tournaments with decks filled with bad red cards just because they had Goblin Guide in the deck to open with and Price of Progress in their deck to draw to. The potential damage output from both of those cards is so high that I've seen little kids dismantle Tier 1 decks with piles of cards featuring Standard RDW all-stars like Legion Loyalist, Mogg Fanatic, no Chain Lightnings, etc.
Burn decks have no real method of card advantage other than "Just kill your opponent before they can cast cards," and no real method of card selection so each card has to be pretty effective on its own to be worthy of its inclusion in your burn deck. In this way, Goblin Guide is the deck's best turn one play, because it's fast (comes down on turn one, has haste), and the damage output on the card has no limit (even if it only attacks twice, that's above the curve for a one mana spell). I would gladly give my opponents cards that shouldn't matter most of the time, because most of Burn's losses come from how it runs out of steam and gives the opponent time for their naturally better cards just take over and crush the Burn player--it isn't usually because you get wiped out by your opponent's anti-red silver bullets.
You have to keep in mind that the situations where Goblin Guide only gets in one attack before getting removed are going to look more common to you because you're the one playing the removal deck. From your side of the table, most other creatures look just as ineffective. From the Burn player's side, that removal doesn't show up as often as you seem to think.