I don't know I think dark ritual, hymn to tourach followed by thoughtseize seems a lot more crippling. Black vise is not that scary also if you dump too much mana into it turn one or two and it gets forced its almost like you mind twisted yourself since you used all that fast mana to try and wreck their hand.
It's because it can hit lands. Plain and simple. That's an effect they just don't promote anymore because the opponent being unable to play anything from turn 0 forward even when they kept a perfectly playable hand isn't fun.
It's a bad Hymn to Tourach that people will make emotionally charge arguments against because they assume it must be powerful if it's on the banned list. The reality is it wouldn't see play, because any "God Hand" it would work in would be better off being a Storm deck since instead of using triple ritual to get rid of their hand you triple ritual to win the game. It's not a good card, but people will talk about how scary it is just by virtue of it being on the list. It's Land Tax all over again.
Honestly, I think the biggest thing it'd do is help Nic Fit (who on explosive hands could T2 Twist for 4) and MUD; but that's still before you consider that Spell Pierce and Force of Will exist; and that T1 discard is a thing.
It's neat that Bob would see it as a 1-drop though.
@Sheepz
I feel like this argument just points you to T1 Emrakuls, Charbelchers, Empty the Warrens, and Tendrils. Losing T1 feels worse than Top-decking T1. Also, Mind Shatter in M10 contradicts what you're saying.
But its also not really going to add anything to the format or open up new possibilities, so there isnt exactly a thriving "unban Mind Twist" lobby calling for change.
Mind Twist could easily be unbanned, but in the end if at all, decks that would play Mind Twist certainly must have something special going on and produce more mana than usual.
Dark Rituals into a Mind Twist isnt a good play, so you can easily count that out (as any deck that would play that much black, simply uses hymn and smaller discard instead).
A deck with Grim Monolith and the like could be much more into a Mind Twist, as they dont spend actual cards to fuel the X and they play not enough black to go for hymn, so that allows you to go with Ancient Tomb into Grim Monolith and then X=5 the Mind Twist on turn 2, which is an actual good play and cripples any deck that doesnt have counterspells (while it keeps you with just 1 card spend, rather than dark Ritual stuff).
A "black" Stax deck could be a thing, using SmokeStack and Mind twist to put the opponent into a hard lock and you can keep yourself drawing cards with Dark Confidant and the like. But Stax is not close to Tier 1, Mind Twist would be a nice card to have for that deck, but then the meta game could adapt and just play Misdirection and the like, if its a problem at all.
However, even that requires decks that are currently not Tier 1, and with a meta that is full of Daze / Force and the like, even the Mind Twist would certainly not be "that" scary to make it Tier 1.
That said, Mind Twist could certainly be unbanned, its way less crazy than stuff like Show and Tell (which also spells GG against any non-counterspell deck pretty much allways).
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Swamp, Ritual, Ritual, Ritual, Mind Twist for 7.
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Yea, but it still doesn't leave you with much of hand yourself. Plus getting an open hand like that is closer to magical Christmas land.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
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"We are 138!!"
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Yeah, Wit's End 5-8 is the last thing Legacy needs.
It's neat that Bob would see it as a 1-drop though.
@Sheepz
I feel like this argument just points you to T1 Emrakuls, Charbelchers, Empty the Warrens, and Tendrils. Losing T1 feels worse than Top-decking T1. Also, Mind Shatter in M10 contradicts what you're saying.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
But its also not really going to add anything to the format or open up new possibilities, so there isnt exactly a thriving "unban Mind Twist" lobby calling for change.
Dark Rituals into a Mind Twist isnt a good play, so you can easily count that out (as any deck that would play that much black, simply uses hymn and smaller discard instead).
A deck with Grim Monolith and the like could be much more into a Mind Twist, as they dont spend actual cards to fuel the X and they play not enough black to go for hymn, so that allows you to go with Ancient Tomb into Grim Monolith and then X=5 the Mind Twist on turn 2, which is an actual good play and cripples any deck that doesnt have counterspells (while it keeps you with just 1 card spend, rather than dark Ritual stuff).
A "black" Stax deck could be a thing, using SmokeStack and Mind twist to put the opponent into a hard lock and you can keep yourself drawing cards with Dark Confidant and the like. But Stax is not close to Tier 1, Mind Twist would be a nice card to have for that deck, but then the meta game could adapt and just play Misdirection and the like, if its a problem at all.
However, even that requires decks that are currently not Tier 1, and with a meta that is full of Daze / Force and the like, even the Mind Twist would certainly not be "that" scary to make it Tier 1.
That said, Mind Twist could certainly be unbanned, its way less crazy than stuff like Show and Tell (which also spells GG against any non-counterspell deck pretty much allways).
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