This card needs to see more play. If you don't know why simply ask me a match up you would like me to play out a scenario for you and I will show how it can fit in your deck. Tell me your deck and match up you want me to explain and defend my position on this.
I'm saying Pithing Needle is a main deck card for almost every deck in Legacy.
Vs Sneak and show you can also name Grisselbrand incase they net a show and tell on you. Prevent them being able to gain draw cards off him.
Mother of Runes can be named in D&T along with Jitte. Depending on what deck you run I wouldn't recommend more than 1 or two copies. I would say that you can net the same result game 1 against those deck that you could in game 2. Just a matter of knowing decks and preemptively naming cards.
Against BUG you have Lilianna, Deathrite, and 2 fetch lands in Misty and Verdant. Keeping a player potentially on 1 or 2 mana can be back breaking.
Vs Miracles you missed Jace the Mind Sculpter, flooded strand, and polluted delta.
At any rate of these examples the card can clock in for at least a 2 of. Depending on if you play aggro or control a 3 of.
There you go, solving the format. Out with practical experience and in with theorycrafting.
So that must mean you've tested Pithing Needle main deck and found it to be less than optimal? Or did you just theory craft and realize with theory it was a good sideboard card never testing it in the main? For some reason the deck works well in the sideboard. I think its just been missed as a main deck option.
A person thinks about a deck it won't play good against and discards the card while not taking into consideration how many decks and cards it actually works quite well against.
Any good match up of polished deck play vs skilled players tends to be grindy matches even though the decks they play can win very fast. This is because they've molded they're deck to have the right amount of good answers while not taking away from the original plan.
It doesn't have to be a four of but it definitely has potential for more than sideboard play.
I'm playing storm combo. Tell me more about how I should maindeck this card in storm combo or in the sideboard in a format infested with abrupt decay. The card hasn't been maindeckable since 2006-2007. Not going to get very far. Oh and when you say a card is good, that means nothing. If a card is better than a card being used in a deck sure you'd have an argument but pithing needle isn't any better than any cards being played in maindecks right now since legacy decklists are incredibly tight on space.
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I think it can be a one of in every deck in three formats. Standard, Legacy, and Modern. I'm currently running 2 main board in a grixis control deck I've made and one in the sideboard. I'm currently in test phase of the card over Delver of Secrets as my deck seems to need more threats but I actually haven't had to use the card in either game I've played.
Mind you this was in modern.
I suppose I should play in Legacy before actually making a claim on it but the fact Legacy is the only format really piloting the card says to me that it can easily be a 1 of main deck in every deck. Ideally opening up a sideboard slot for decks that are running 2 Needle's in the side. There are tons of cards that can be cut in every deck to make room for a 1 of something.
I would like to add too that Ensnaring Bridge has just under as many prints as Pithing Needle is seen in less over all decks but with slightly more copies and played main board. Any deck that can Pilot a Bridge can Pilot a 1 of Needle and every deck can pilot a 1 of Needle to gain potential land denial on turn 1 or 2 against fetch lands.
Just picture what its like in draft when you miss land drops. With Needle you can net those results on occasion for a free win when they can't tap to sac a pain land. This strategy works against any deck that pilots pain lands and consists of 80% or more of meta's in Legacy and Modern.
I believe aggro can use 1 of in they're decks and the more control you go the more copies you can add to a deck because you begin to have other answers for other cards.
In a control deck it is a catch all card vs many match ups even main board. In aggro, its a stone rain for 1 mana with potential to card flood the opponent. If they remove it good. It bought you a turn to be more aggro and they had to use a remove spell on the Needle instead of one of your creeps. Sometimes all an aggro deck needs is one more turn to attack.
I looked at your posting history. How many Pithing Needles are you hoarding?
About 100. Nothing to big. I may have to sit on them for a bit. I've got my Grixis deck winning matches vs Storm, Nyxwave, and UWR. Currently running 2 main board Needles with 1 in the side... shame I can't use all 100 hahaha I keeeed. I am taking games in Modern though. I'll be able to really buckle down and start a control shell with Tezzeret soon enough I think. Then I may even go for a land destruction deck in RB with needle, although not sure how good this will turn out. Would likely be more powerful in Legacy than the modern format I'm used too.
At any rate Mutavault in standard is huge right now and tons of decks are piloting it. So at the least it can be main board in a ton of decks there as well. However that's a topic I've started in the respective forum.
I've actually also been hoarding Pithing Needles, but more for hilarity than for any other reason. I remember paying about $20 for my first couple back when Psychatog was a deck to beat. I still only have about a dozen needles, it's a shame.
The Needle really is better than it's often given credit for, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it ought to be in more MDs than it's in now, nor that it should be sideboarded in numbers greater than 2. Lets assume the most general case, the one argued above, Pithing Needle used against lands.
If I call the wrong fetchland with my Needle, it might just do nothing relevant at all.
I'm likely using fetchlands myself, in which case I probably have 2-3 different ones and wouldn't want to call those.
If I'm playing Wasteland myself, I usually don't want to call Wasteland, and similarly for the other specialized lands like Rishadan Port and Karakas.
The deck that benefits the most from Pithing Needles in the MD is the deck where they're already main, Cloudpost. I'm sure they enjoy the fringe benefit of naming Goblin Charbelcher now and then, but mostly they're naming Wasteland to protect themselves from a commonly played card that naturally predates on their strategy.
While I agree, that having a needle effect is relevant in the MD (which is why I play Revoker MD), the card has been around since Kamigawa. If you think people haven't tried it by now to mediocre effects you're insane. You haven't discovered fire. This card is a tried and true card that has always been a decent, but not amazing effect. Especially now in a world where a lot of decks play main board ways of destroying the needle. I think if you are going to MD an effect like this, it should be with Revoker, because if their deck really has nothing to name, you have a grizzly bear, also in a deck with wasteland, wasting their lands, then revoking their mana dork or lotus petal or LED is a very real way of mana screwin them.
I don't understand this thread. Are people actually dissing Pithing Needle? I mean, I run Phyrexian Revoker instead, but there are plenty of times where I wish they were needles. Who in the legacy community is ripping on really effective one-mana hosers?
We aren't ripping on Needle. We are simply saying that the assumption that every deck can and should be playing MB pithing needle is wrong.
^This.
It's very similar to someone I know who advocates main board Gitaxian Probes in everything. Everything. Like, it's a good card, but to suggest it in everything is kinda wrong.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
burn doesn't need it, nor do other decks that don't care what you play, but I side them as 1-3 in most Modern and with the search in Legacy, a 1-of sideboard sounds like a good idea for many, but not all, decks.
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Gitaxian probe is easily the most powerful zero mana spell in legacy besides FoW and LED. It is insanely good. More and more decks are adopting probe. Coincidentally probe is really good with pithing needle in terms of preemptively naming fetchlands but that as a 2 card combo is not going to cut it or be consistent enough.
Needle is a way fine card. But to suggest that you maindeck it in everything? Not even remotely.
As for ensnaring bridge having multiple printings, sure it does. You know what you're missing in regards to those printings? 8th and 9th edition weren't exactly opened that much same with stronghold I'd wager and it was printed in the era when mythic rares did not exist/the chance of opening a specific rare in a pack was 1/X, where X is the number of rares in the set (they had a lot of rares in a large set back then, like 110 or so/chances of opening a bridge were quite slim.) Pithing needle, however, was printed in multiple sets where mythic rares also existed/that devalues it a lot more as rares today are worth quite a bit less on average than they did prior to mythic rares.
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You see Needle in decks that have Enlightened Tutor access such as Miracles, or Lands variants which play white. It's a good card, and I keep one in my sideboard as a catch all in my Lands deck but it's never a main deck card for me.
I've actually cut all of them from my sideboard and only play 1 main board now. Its hit a fair few targets for me and then they side in hate and I pull it out. I don't seem to have a problem not drawing it in matches its no good in either.
I find the sideboard has more important things to cover. They bring in 2 hate cards at least to my 1 needle. So in that sense its a 2 for 1. 4 for 1 if you consider the cards they take out to put in needle hate.
Also my deck seems to need at least 3 of from a few key cards for matchups so I don't have the room in my sideboard for it.
hahaha I still say the card is a 1 of in any main deck.
If I played legacy I would likely put Needle as a 1 of in the main.
I've found playing a few slots in the main board that could be sideboard cards works quite well. Needle has allowed me to win quite a few matches along with Izzet Staticaster in the main board. I've just added Rakdos Charm as a 1 of now too. This gives me 3 sideboard cards that I actually play main.
The reason being is because even though they are sideboard cards they are versatile enough against enough matchups that I can play them main board. Also because they are 1 of its not a huge investment for my deck to work around. That and like I said by doing so both Needle and staticaster main have won me games every time I draw them. I've yet to draw the 1 of in a match I don't need it in.
It saves me 3 slots in my sideboard for match ups that I need to dedicate more direct muscle too. I also assume I would do the same in legacy that I do in modern and I know for a fact I would do it in standard because the cards are so much more narrow in standard.
Your act is getting tiring. Also, have you ever played a single match of legacy? Things like
I find the sideboard has more important things to cover. They bring in 2 hate cards at least to my 1 needle.
suggest otherwise.
If you don't know why simply ask me a match up you would like me to play out a scenario for you and I will show how it can fit in your deck. Tell me your deck and match up you want me to explain and defend my position on this.
Ok, I'll play. Dredge against every deck in the format. Why would I want a needle in Dredge (manaless, LED, LEDless)?
I'd also like to add with my strat I'd have likely played control in standard and the two top decks at Phoenix ran muta vaults at x6 to x8 I believe so my main board Needle seems like a good idea. I'd have likely gone 2 main though in standard.
1stTilt just bought a bunch of pithing needles and is now spamming every forum (he has 5 of these threads that I have seen in different sub-forums) to try to make his poor investment not go to waste. Just report and ignore him.
I use it regularly (IN THE SIDE) if my Storm MU seems good enough and I don't want my hate to by Pyroclasm'd. I.E. Against S&T I'd rather have needle; and the ability to stop Stage/Depths is a thing. It's OK against Miracles since you can stop-top/Jace while not getting Terminus'd. Outside of that; I'd only ever main 1 at most; and even then I feel like if you're in anything but mono-red; there are probably better catch-alls to run.
I'm saying Pithing Needle is a main deck card for almost every deck in Legacy.
Mother of Runes can be named in D&T along with Jitte. Depending on what deck you run I wouldn't recommend more than 1 or two copies. I would say that you can net the same result game 1 against those deck that you could in game 2. Just a matter of knowing decks and preemptively naming cards.
Against BUG you have Lilianna, Deathrite, and 2 fetch lands in Misty and Verdant. Keeping a player potentially on 1 or 2 mana can be back breaking.
Vs Miracles you missed Jace the Mind Sculpter, flooded strand, and polluted delta.
At any rate of these examples the card can clock in for at least a 2 of. Depending on if you play aggro or control a 3 of.
So that must mean you've tested Pithing Needle main deck and found it to be less than optimal? Or did you just theory craft and realize with theory it was a good sideboard card never testing it in the main? For some reason the deck works well in the sideboard. I think its just been missed as a main deck option.
A person thinks about a deck it won't play good against and discards the card while not taking into consideration how many decks and cards it actually works quite well against.
Any good match up of polished deck play vs skilled players tends to be grindy matches even though the decks they play can win very fast. This is because they've molded they're deck to have the right amount of good answers while not taking away from the original plan.
It doesn't have to be a four of but it definitely has potential for more than sideboard play.
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Mind you this was in modern.
I suppose I should play in Legacy before actually making a claim on it but the fact Legacy is the only format really piloting the card says to me that it can easily be a 1 of main deck in every deck. Ideally opening up a sideboard slot for decks that are running 2 Needle's in the side. There are tons of cards that can be cut in every deck to make room for a 1 of something.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Just picture what its like in draft when you miss land drops. With Needle you can net those results on occasion for a free win when they can't tap to sac a pain land. This strategy works against any deck that pilots pain lands and consists of 80% or more of meta's in Legacy and Modern.
I believe aggro can use 1 of in they're decks and the more control you go the more copies you can add to a deck because you begin to have other answers for other cards.
In a control deck it is a catch all card vs many match ups even main board. In aggro, its a stone rain for 1 mana with potential to card flood the opponent. If they remove it good. It bought you a turn to be more aggro and they had to use a remove spell on the Needle instead of one of your creeps. Sometimes all an aggro deck needs is one more turn to attack.
About 100. Nothing to big. I may have to sit on them for a bit. I've got my Grixis deck winning matches vs Storm, Nyxwave, and UWR. Currently running 2 main board Needles with 1 in the side... shame I can't use all 100 hahaha I keeeed. I am taking games in Modern though. I'll be able to really buckle down and start a control shell with Tezzeret soon enough I think. Then I may even go for a land destruction deck in RB with needle, although not sure how good this will turn out. Would likely be more powerful in Legacy than the modern format I'm used too.
At any rate Mutavault in standard is huge right now and tons of decks are piloting it. So at the least it can be main board in a ton of decks there as well. However that's a topic I've started in the respective forum.
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The Needle really is better than it's often given credit for, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it ought to be in more MDs than it's in now, nor that it should be sideboarded in numbers greater than 2. Lets assume the most general case, the one argued above, Pithing Needle used against lands.
The deck that benefits the most from Pithing Needles in the MD is the deck where they're already main, Cloudpost. I'm sure they enjoy the fringe benefit of naming Goblin Charbelcher now and then, but mostly they're naming Wasteland to protect themselves from a commonly played card that naturally predates on their strategy.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
^This.
It's very similar to someone I know who advocates main board Gitaxian Probes in everything. Everything. Like, it's a good card, but to suggest it in everything is kinda wrong.
Pithing Needle is a good card though.
Needle is a way fine card. But to suggest that you maindeck it in everything? Not even remotely.
As for ensnaring bridge having multiple printings, sure it does. You know what you're missing in regards to those printings? 8th and 9th edition weren't exactly opened that much same with stronghold I'd wager and it was printed in the era when mythic rares did not exist/the chance of opening a specific rare in a pack was 1/X, where X is the number of rares in the set (they had a lot of rares in a large set back then, like 110 or so/chances of opening a bridge were quite slim.) Pithing needle, however, was printed in multiple sets where mythic rares also existed/that devalues it a lot more as rares today are worth quite a bit less on average than they did prior to mythic rares.
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Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
I find the sideboard has more important things to cover. They bring in 2 hate cards at least to my 1 needle. So in that sense its a 2 for 1. 4 for 1 if you consider the cards they take out to put in needle hate.
Also my deck seems to need at least 3 of from a few key cards for matchups so I don't have the room in my sideboard for it.
hahaha I still say the card is a 1 of in any main deck.
I've found playing a few slots in the main board that could be sideboard cards works quite well. Needle has allowed me to win quite a few matches along with Izzet Staticaster in the main board. I've just added Rakdos Charm as a 1 of now too. This gives me 3 sideboard cards that I actually play main.
The reason being is because even though they are sideboard cards they are versatile enough against enough matchups that I can play them main board. Also because they are 1 of its not a huge investment for my deck to work around. That and like I said by doing so both Needle and staticaster main have won me games every time I draw them. I've yet to draw the 1 of in a match I don't need it in.
It saves me 3 slots in my sideboard for match ups that I need to dedicate more direct muscle too. I also assume I would do the same in legacy that I do in modern and I know for a fact I would do it in standard because the cards are so much more narrow in standard.
I'd also like to add with my strat I'd have likely played control in standard and the two top decks at Phoenix ran muta vaults at x6 to x8 I believe so my main board Needle seems like a good idea. I'd have likely gone 2 main though in standard.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
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