I'm looking for budget card draw options (under $40/card or ~$150/playset) in a black/white pikula-style deck. The deck runs Mother of Runes, Vindicate, Tidehollow Sculler, etc. Bob would have been perfect if it had not jumped in price. What are some of my options that are viable in Legacy? Thanks!
Bob is very good in decks like that but if you can't afford them, Sensei's Divining Top in conjuncture with like ~8 fetchlands is very powerful: getting you the right cards when you need them.
Sylvan library is great if you are already splashing green for DRS or whatever.
Phyrexian arena is probably the closest thing to playable actual card draw in those colors. It isn't terrible, but it is no bob for a deck that wants bob.
Bob is very good in decks like that but if you can't afford them, Sensei's Divining Top in conjuncture with like ~8 fetchlands is very powerful: getting you the right cards when you need them.
Sylvan library is great if you are already splashing green for DRS or whatever.
Phyrexian arena is probably the closest thing to playable actual card draw in those colors. It isn't terrible, but it is no bob for a deck that wants bob.
Thanks! I'm considering a lot of those cards already. I've already got a playset of Lilis, but they're for another deck. Also, they've hit values comparable to Bob, so another playset is out of the question. Sensei's top is a good idea, but I sold all my fetchlands and am waiting for the reprint to acquire more for my decks. Do you think Read the Bones is too slow for Legacy?
Bob is very good in decks like that but if you can't afford them, Sensei's Divining Top in conjuncture with like ~8 fetchlands is very powerful: getting you the right cards when you need them.
Sylvan library is great if you are already splashing green for DRS or whatever.
Phyrexian arena is probably the closest thing to playable actual card draw in those colors. It isn't terrible, but it is no bob for a deck that wants bob.
Thanks! I'm considering a lot of those cards already. I've already got a playset of Lilis, but they're for another deck. Also, they've hit values comparable to Bob, so another playset is out of the question. Sensei's top is a good idea, but I sold all my fetchlands and am waiting for the reprint to acquire more for my decks. Do you think Read the Bones is too slow for Legacy?
Night's Whisper or Sign in Blood are far better options if you're on the Divination plan. Not exactly good enough for Legacy, but better than Read the Bones.
Night's Whisper or Sign in Blood are far better options if you're on the Divination plan. Not exactly good enough for Legacy, but better than Read the Bones.
This. But also, I think you are much better off just playing more things like hymn/verdict with maybe 1-2 phyrexian arena. You don't really need card draw if it is bad card draw.
I agree with the 2-for-1 plan. Bobs are the best way to go; but starting with good budget 2-for-1s will net you an effective enough deck to do well in less grindy games.
I used some weird 2-for-1s in a ramp list. Knight of the White Orchid can put 2 2-drops down on T3 and there are lots of neat tricks with Tithe. Don't be fooled that it's worse than Tax. Tax has to survive the opponent's playing around it, destruction/exile, and it requires a full turn or more to reap the benefits. It also takes a lot of build-around and fetches basics instead of "Plains."
Tithe has been fun the few times I've built lists with it in that:
-You can play it with your own wasteland. Pop the land, use tithe, let both resolve, get two lands.
-Play it T1 if going second. T2 play it in response to their first spell after they get their drop
-Lets you hold mana open for Swords
-Plays very well with Mox Diamond and Deathrite Shaman. Diamond can cast it going first T1 while allowing you your 1-drop and immediately gaining your card neutrality back. DRS can instead allow an easy casting T2 while not disrupting your 2-drop.
Keep in mind that if you Diamond->Tithe->Fetch you've already reduced your deck by 4 lands; which stabilizes later draws a bit better.
My WB decks, as you can see, tended to ramp into 3 or 4-drops while going for easy 2-for-1s. The natural Thalia inclusion allows for beefy first strike walls in the early game and Swords (and possibly Path.) If you plow only the big guys, you should be safe on the aggro plan
Going back, Sensei's also works well with keeping a strong late-game and is a good side-out card during Storm; allowing you to simply fill the deck with threats.
Tithe is usually best when you can cast it while holding priority on your own fetchlands and wastelands, which unfortunately I doubt the OP has available.
If you can't afford Bobs, don't try to play bad replacements to fill the "card advantage" slot. Just make use of other cards to out-attrition your opponent (Lingering Souls, Liliana, Stoneforge Mystic, Hymn to Tourach).
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Priority 1 - Bob
Barring that - Land Tax/Scroll Rack/Top in a control shell only
Barring that - SFM into Sword of Fire and Ice/Jitte
Barring that - Phyrexian Reclamation+ 2-for-1 creatures is underrated as a tier 2 engine
Barring that - Phyrexian Arena is actually pretty decent in a Trainwreck-style slow black control deck but too slow otherwise
Barring that - Weathered Wayfarer/Tithe if you're running a lot of fetches and Wastes to abuse priority
After that it's slim pickings... Sign in Blood I guess.
You're essentially describing a budget B/W Stoneblade and/or Deadguy Ale list.
Bob and Top and the go-to draw mechanics in those decks. Good draw effects don't come cheap outside of blue. If we're really talking budget, then you'll have to be willing to concede that your deck will not be tuned well against the best the format has to offer.
That being said, Phyrexian Arena can do a passable Bob impersonation, but it doesn't attack and 3-mana is quite expensive in Legacy, especially when you won't reap the benefits until Turn 4.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
Bob is very good in decks like that but if you can't afford them, Sensei's Divining Top in conjuncture with like ~8 fetchlands is very powerful: getting you the right cards when you need them.
Sylvan library is great if you are already splashing green for DRS or whatever.
Phyrexian arena is probably the closest thing to playable actual card draw in those colors. It isn't terrible, but it is no bob for a deck that wants bob.
Thanks! I'm considering a lot of those cards already. I've already got a playset of Lilis, but they're for another deck. Also, they've hit values comparable to Bob, so another playset is out of the question. Sensei's top is a good idea, but I sold all my fetchlands and am waiting for the reprint to acquire more for my decks. Do you think Read the Bones is too slow for Legacy?
this may not be a rout you want to take, but i usually never get more then aplayset of an expensive staple like lili. i keep the playset in one deck and put proxies in other, and just make sure before tournaments that the actually playset is in the deck im using. really helps diversify you ability to make decks without buying 8-12 of an expensive staple (eg mutvault in standard)
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It is not card draw, but stoneforge mystic provides great card advantage and could get sword of fire and ice, or sword of light and shadow to get you cards.
Sylvan library is great if you are already splashing green for DRS or whatever.
Phyrexian arena is probably the closest thing to playable actual card draw in those colors. It isn't terrible, but it is no bob for a deck that wants bob.
A better route might be just using value two-for-ones as your source of card advantage. Hymn to tourach, Gerrard's verdict, Stoneforge, tidehallow sculler, Liliana of the veil just to name a few cards.
Thanks! I'm considering a lot of those cards already. I've already got a playset of Lilis, but they're for another deck. Also, they've hit values comparable to Bob, so another playset is out of the question. Sensei's top is a good idea, but I sold all my fetchlands and am waiting for the reprint to acquire more for my decks. Do you think Read the Bones is too slow for Legacy?
Night's Whisper or Sign in Blood are far better options if you're on the Divination plan. Not exactly good enough for Legacy, but better than Read the Bones.
This. But also, I think you are much better off just playing more things like hymn/verdict with maybe 1-2 phyrexian arena. You don't really need card draw if it is bad card draw.
If you are playing heavy spells and fetchland, really just ways to fill your yard, skeletal scrying is underrated.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
unless you've got life gain to make up for it, it's probably a 2-of at most. But it can get the job done.
I used some weird 2-for-1s in a ramp list. Knight of the White Orchid can put 2 2-drops down on T3 and there are lots of neat tricks with Tithe. Don't be fooled that it's worse than Tax. Tax has to survive the opponent's playing around it, destruction/exile, and it requires a full turn or more to reap the benefits. It also takes a lot of build-around and fetches basics instead of "Plains."
Tithe has been fun the few times I've built lists with it in that:
-You can play it with your own wasteland. Pop the land, use tithe, let both resolve, get two lands.
-Play it T1 if going second. T2 play it in response to their first spell after they get their drop
-Lets you hold mana open for Swords
-Plays very well with Mox Diamond and Deathrite Shaman. Diamond can cast it going first T1 while allowing you your 1-drop and immediately gaining your card neutrality back. DRS can instead allow an easy casting T2 while not disrupting your 2-drop.
Keep in mind that if you Diamond->Tithe->Fetch you've already reduced your deck by 4 lands; which stabilizes later draws a bit better.
My WB decks, as you can see, tended to ramp into 3 or 4-drops while going for easy 2-for-1s. The natural Thalia inclusion allows for beefy first strike walls in the early game and Swords (and possibly Path.) If you plow only the big guys, you should be safe on the aggro plan
Going back, Sensei's also works well with keeping a strong late-game and is a good side-out card during Storm; allowing you to simply fill the deck with threats.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Tithe is usually best when you can cast it while holding priority on your own fetchlands and wastelands, which unfortunately I doubt the OP has available.
Splash blue and play Brainstorm?
If you're on a budget and can't afford Bobs (Dark Confidant) you could play Dark Tutelage or Phyrexian Arena.
When m15 comes out you could run Waste Not.
What's your win con in this deck? Do you play Stoneforge Mystic?
There's also Oblation.
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingPriority 1 - Bob
Barring that - Land Tax/Scroll Rack/Top in a control shell only
Barring that - SFM into Sword of Fire and Ice/Jitte
Barring that - Phyrexian Reclamation+ 2-for-1 creatures is underrated as a tier 2 engine
Barring that - Phyrexian Arena is actually pretty decent in a Trainwreck-style slow black control deck but too slow otherwise
Barring that - Weathered Wayfarer/Tithe if you're running a lot of fetches and Wastes to abuse priority
After that it's slim pickings... Sign in Blood I guess.
Bob and Top and the go-to draw mechanics in those decks. Good draw effects don't come cheap outside of blue. If we're really talking budget, then you'll have to be willing to concede that your deck will not be tuned well against the best the format has to offer.
That being said, Phyrexian Arena can do a passable Bob impersonation, but it doesn't attack and 3-mana is quite expensive in Legacy, especially when you won't reap the benefits until Turn 4.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
this may not be a rout you want to take, but i usually never get more then aplayset of an expensive staple like lili. i keep the playset in one deck and put proxies in other, and just make sure before tournaments that the actually playset is in the deck im using. really helps diversify you ability to make decks without buying 8-12 of an expensive staple (eg mutvault in standard)