So, can you guys somewhat educate me on legacy? Some of the cards that are good, some cards that are bad, how fast/slow is the format? What decks are popular? What kinds of things are good in the format? Etc. etc.
So, can you guys somewhat educate me on legacy? Some of the cards that are good, some cards that are bad, how fast/slow is the format? What decks are popular? What kinds of things are good in the format? Etc. etc.
Thanks!
Just read through the Established deck primers and you'll learn a lot.
Your request would honestly take hours to answer, so:
1. Look at the Decks sections of this subforum - this will give you a reasonable idea of what goods are objectively "good" in the format and what strategies are prevalent right now.
2. Decks in Legacy can kill on turn 1 or be controlling to the point where the match goes to time. It depends on what is being played.
3. Not sure how to answer the question about the kinds of things that are good in the format? Killing people perhaps?
So, can you guys somewhat educate me on legacy? Some of the cards that are good, some cards that are bad, how fast/slow is the format? What decks are popular? What kinds of things are good in the format? Etc. etc.
Thanks!
The format is so diverse with so many kinds of decks that it's both extremely fast, extremely slow, and cards are both bad and good, as well as everything in between. This is a format where Hanweir Watchkeep can be playable as a four of in the right deck. It's really impossible to summarize. That said what is really good right now is anything that can jam True-Name Nemesis and Stonefore Mystic mixed with some disruption in the form of discard, counterspells, and removal. Even if you play that you might up losing to a deck with more lands than spells even if you play that deck or get blown up by a turn 2 Griselbrand. It's really a crazy format (there is even a deck with no lands that usually wins on turn 1 when it isn't disrupted).
So, can you guys somewhat educate me on legacy? Some of the cards that are good, some cards that are bad, how fast/slow is the format? What decks are popular? What kinds of things are good in the format? Etc. etc.
Bad cards:
The vast majority of the cards in Magic history are "bad" in Legacy. However, there is a lot of room for innovation and you shouldn't be afraid to try new cards if they seem at least close in power level. I mean, who would ever think that Hive Mind would be a key card in a tournament winning deck?
Speed:
As others stated, the speed is highly variable. I saw an article once that talked about a turn in each format (I thinking it was called "fundamental turn"). It stated that Legacy was turn 3 (Standard was 5, Modern 4 and Vintage 2). The importance of this turn was that you either had to do something game-endingly powerful or be prepared to stop your opponent from doing something game-endingly powerful by this turn. Turn 3 doesn't mean 3 total turns (as in one player has had 1 turn and the other has had 2) but means that it is YOUR third turn after your opponents 2nd or 3rd turn. It is really combo decks that create this turn. Most of the good combo decks in the format tend to "go off" on turn 2-4 and only a few have the ability to win on turn 1 (and this happens rarely, Belcher > TES)
Popular decks:
I use mtgtop8.com to look at recent high-placing decks.
Combo and Tempo decks really define Legacy. It has been said that Legacy has a 3 archetype system of Aggro beats Control beats Combo beats Aggro. However, true control decks are very rare and UW Miracles is probably the only consistently performing control deck. True aggro is even rarer and really just cannot compete. Affinity, Burn and Zoo are the most common aggro decks but none of them are considered a tier 1 deck. They continue to be played, however, because Affinity and Burn are at least competitive enough to win a tournament here and there and are much cheaper than most Legacy decks. Most decks labeled "aggro" or "control" are really aggro-control or tempo decks. Blue-based Delver of Secrets decks are by far the most common type of these decks. They are usually 3 colors and can be any color combination, as long as it includes blue. Jund, Death and Taxes and Stoneblade/Deathblade are other types of aggro-control decks that don't play Delver of Secrets.
As far as combo, there are several archetypes that are far more common than others. The most played are decks based on Show and Tell, mostly Sneak and Show (trying to get large monsters such as Griselbrand and Emrakul into play) and Omni Tell (getting Omniscience or Dream Halls into play to cast Enter the Infinite and win that turn). Elves is next and usually involves setting up for a couple turns and then going off on turn 3-4, casting a bunch of elves, making a bunch of mana and drawing a bunch of cards using Glimpse of Nature, Regal Force or Elvish Visionary with Wirewood Symbiote, and then winning with Craterhoof Behemoth by way of Green Sun's Zenith or Natural Order. The next type of deck is Storm. The two variants (ANT for Ad Nauseam Tendrils and TES for The Epic Storm) have a few differences but ultimately try to cast 9 spells in a turn and then cast Tendrils of Agony to kill their opponent. Dark Ritual is the prototype of the card they want to cast. ANT is blue and black only (occasionaly it adds red for Past in Flames) while TES adds red for more mana-making spells and Burning Wish and occasionally white for Silence or Orim's Chant to protect their combo. Next is Reanimator which ideally uses Entomb to put a large creature in their graveyard (usually Griselbrand) and Reanimate or Exhume to put them into play, hoping that is enough to kill their opponent (which it usually is).
I really feel that Legacy is defined by combo. You have to be able to BEAT combo or you have to BE combo.
Welcome to Legacy, I hope you learn to love it as much as many of us do.
So, can you guys somewhat educate me on legacy? Some of the cards that are good, some cards that are bad, how fast/slow is the format? What decks are popular? What kinds of things are good in the format? Etc. etc.
Thanks!
Not sure if you're into podcasts but there is a podcast called "The Legacy Weapon Podcast" that just recently rebooted and they are going through exactly all this. The format, archetypes, what cards are good, what you can expect in a game etc etc etc. It's really a good podcast.
Thanks!
Just read through the Established deck primers and you'll learn a lot.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
1. Look at the Decks sections of this subforum - this will give you a reasonable idea of what goods are objectively "good" in the format and what strategies are prevalent right now.
2. Decks in Legacy can kill on turn 1 or be controlling to the point where the match goes to time. It depends on what is being played.
3. Not sure how to answer the question about the kinds of things that are good in the format? Killing people perhaps?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
The format is so diverse with so many kinds of decks that it's both extremely fast, extremely slow, and cards are both bad and good, as well as everything in between. This is a format where Hanweir Watchkeep can be playable as a four of in the right deck. It's really impossible to summarize. That said what is really good right now is anything that can jam True-Name Nemesis and Stonefore Mystic mixed with some disruption in the form of discard, counterspells, and removal. Even if you play that you might up losing to a deck with more lands than spells even if you play that deck or get blown up by a turn 2 Griselbrand. It's really a crazy format (there is even a deck with no lands that usually wins on turn 1 when it isn't disrupted).
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
Good cards:
Spells: Brainstorm, Force of Will, Lightning Bolt, Show and Tell, Thoughtseize, Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Abrupt Decay, Swords to Plowshares, Stifle, Daze, Spell Pierce, Ponder, Glimpse of Nature, Natural Order, Reanimate, Life from the Loam
Lands: Wasteland, ABUR Duals, Onslaught/Zendikar fetchlands, Grove of the Burnwillows (with Punishing Fire), Karakas, Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Gaea's Cradle
Planeswalkers: Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Liliana of the Veil
Creatures: Delver of Secrets, Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic (with equipment such as Umezawa's Jitte, Batterskull, Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Feast of Famine), Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant (Bob), True-Name Nemesis, Vendilion Clique, Griselbrand, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Shardless Agent, Bloodbraid Elf, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Knight of the Reliquary, Tombstalker, Baleful Strix
Bad cards:
The vast majority of the cards in Magic history are "bad" in Legacy. However, there is a lot of room for innovation and you shouldn't be afraid to try new cards if they seem at least close in power level. I mean, who would ever think that Hive Mind would be a key card in a tournament winning deck?
Speed:
As others stated, the speed is highly variable. I saw an article once that talked about a turn in each format (I thinking it was called "fundamental turn"). It stated that Legacy was turn 3 (Standard was 5, Modern 4 and Vintage 2). The importance of this turn was that you either had to do something game-endingly powerful or be prepared to stop your opponent from doing something game-endingly powerful by this turn. Turn 3 doesn't mean 3 total turns (as in one player has had 1 turn and the other has had 2) but means that it is YOUR third turn after your opponents 2nd or 3rd turn. It is really combo decks that create this turn. Most of the good combo decks in the format tend to "go off" on turn 2-4 and only a few have the ability to win on turn 1 (and this happens rarely, Belcher > TES)
Popular decks:
I use mtgtop8.com to look at recent high-placing decks.
Combo and Tempo decks really define Legacy. It has been said that Legacy has a 3 archetype system of Aggro beats Control beats Combo beats Aggro. However, true control decks are very rare and UW Miracles is probably the only consistently performing control deck. True aggro is even rarer and really just cannot compete. Affinity, Burn and Zoo are the most common aggro decks but none of them are considered a tier 1 deck. They continue to be played, however, because Affinity and Burn are at least competitive enough to win a tournament here and there and are much cheaper than most Legacy decks. Most decks labeled "aggro" or "control" are really aggro-control or tempo decks. Blue-based Delver of Secrets decks are by far the most common type of these decks. They are usually 3 colors and can be any color combination, as long as it includes blue. Jund, Death and Taxes and Stoneblade/Deathblade are other types of aggro-control decks that don't play Delver of Secrets.
As far as combo, there are several archetypes that are far more common than others. The most played are decks based on Show and Tell, mostly Sneak and Show (trying to get large monsters such as Griselbrand and Emrakul into play) and Omni Tell (getting Omniscience or Dream Halls into play to cast Enter the Infinite and win that turn). Elves is next and usually involves setting up for a couple turns and then going off on turn 3-4, casting a bunch of elves, making a bunch of mana and drawing a bunch of cards using Glimpse of Nature, Regal Force or Elvish Visionary with Wirewood Symbiote, and then winning with Craterhoof Behemoth by way of Green Sun's Zenith or Natural Order. The next type of deck is Storm. The two variants (ANT for Ad Nauseam Tendrils and TES for The Epic Storm) have a few differences but ultimately try to cast 9 spells in a turn and then cast Tendrils of Agony to kill their opponent. Dark Ritual is the prototype of the card they want to cast. ANT is blue and black only (occasionaly it adds red for Past in Flames) while TES adds red for more mana-making spells and Burning Wish and occasionally white for Silence or Orim's Chant to protect their combo. Next is Reanimator which ideally uses Entomb to put a large creature in their graveyard (usually Griselbrand) and Reanimate or Exhume to put them into play, hoping that is enough to kill their opponent (which it usually is).
I really feel that Legacy is defined by combo. You have to be able to BEAT combo or you have to BE combo.
Welcome to Legacy, I hope you learn to love it as much as many of us do.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Not sure if you're into podcasts but there is a podcast called "The Legacy Weapon Podcast" that just recently rebooted and they are going through exactly all this. The format, archetypes, what cards are good, what you can expect in a game etc etc etc. It's really a good podcast.
Misty Rainforest
Bad Card
Worldgorger Dragon
Good deck: worldgorger combo
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord