I've been playing Standard for about a year now and want to make the jump to Legacy. I know most of the decks at this point and would probably like to start with one of the Delver variants.
Question is: is the dominance of Sneak & Show going to last? Honestly this deck makes me not even want to try to go up against it, and I'm not the type to start playing it right off the bat just to avoid getting blown out by it all the time. Since I haven't been around very long, I don't really know what to expect for the format going forward.
Is a format-warping deck like this a common thing? Will the meta eventually adjust, the deck fall out of favor, etc? It just seems like a very un-fun way to play magic and I don't want to invest in a deck that will always be on the ropes against a totally broken kill you on turn 1 kind of deck. (I know combo decks aren't going anywhere, but this is extreme, right?)
Am I overreacting? Have there been scenarios like this in the past? Really just wanted to hear what some of you veterans thought about the state of the format, especially if you could put yourself in the shoes of someone just now wanting to dive in.
Thanks very much for any commentary!
quick edit-- I was a little loose with my wording in this post, please see my follow-up below before chopping my head off
Seeing as sneak and show is NOT dominating anything, yes, you are overreacting. It is far from format warping. Unlike standard there are years worth of cards in the available pool so sometimes it takes a bit of time for players to determine how to best combat a deck. True name nemesis is a current example. There is a lot of ban hammer waving and similar feelings towards it, but it can be dealt with. This tends to be a result of the players who don't want to adapt their chosen strategy though.
For what it's worth as well, bringing up "un-fun way to play" would suggest you fit into the "scrub" category that was mentioned in another thread. A big part of legacy is being able to adapt. Those that don't are doomed to failure.
Otherwise the most recent format warping cards were mental misstep and survival of the fittest. The hammer was taken to them for their effect on the format. Cards that epitomized warping the format.
Hope that helps some. Also I will apologize I advance if it comes off as to harsh.
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SnT is some of the most boring & un-fun magic to be played.
Just pack a full set of Oblivion Ring in the board, you'll be fine.
As much as I despise that card, you can't let it scare you into not playing, hands down, the best format of Magic!
Sneak and Show isnt dominating the Legacy meta. One of them might have won the most recent SCG Open, but it was also the only Sneak and Show deck to make the top 16 in that tournament.
It is a deck with a lot of raw power (yes, possibly too much) but its fairly linear game plan still leaves it vulnerable to specific hate.
The deck might be a bit annoying, and probably the simplest combo deck to play successfully in the format, but in terms of "format warping"? I think Delver and Deathrite have both had a greater influence on the overall meta.
Yes, Sneak and Show comes up here and there on tournaments, but like WeaponX says, its not dominating... Legacy has seen much more decks that were more seen throughout a tournament, survival of the fittest with vengivine is one of them... everyone who had a playset of those 4 played it on tournaments (more or less)... Even back in the day, dredge was seen in my region like 50% of the decks on a tournament played dredge... And what about the printing of Tarmogoyf? That card was in about at least 60% of the decks after it was printed...
so about you, get over it, if you see that S&T is played a lot in your area, just start looking for a deck that can battle S&T and you will be fine
Okay, I understand some of your feelings as I am still quite new to this format (a few months).
First, you cannot say that playing Sneak and Show is an unfun way of winning. What if I like playing big creatures? I think your Delver of Secrets is a very unfun way of winning. I mean, seriously, a 3 power creature that takes FIVE WHOLE TURNS of me having no interaction with it to win? That's just soooo boring. Am I right?
Second, it is a common misconception that Legacy is a turn 1 have Force of Will or lose format. Sneak and Show will most likely not blow you out turn 1. I went into the format thinking I would get bashed T1 by Sneak and Show all day. In fact, it is quite rare that they will go for the turn 1 kill without protection from a Force of Will. The statistics of having Sneak/Show + fattie + ramp + Force is very small if you want to do the math. Very few players will go off T1 blindly without protection because that's just asking to die to FoW. In fact, Sneak and Show is a turn 3 or turn 4 deck, possibly with another turn if Show and Tell was used on Emrakul. If T1 kills are what worry you, I suggest you look into how to counter Belcher and Oops All Spells instead. Those "totally broken turn 1" decks actually have a turn 1 win rate of much higher than 50%, and will almost certainly attempt to go off T2 if they haven't tried already.
Third, Sneak and Show is by no means dominating the format as the previous poster has said. If you look at http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE and the metagame breakdown, it comprises of less than 10% of the decks in the last 2 months, and 5% of the total large events. Of course, this only takes into account the decks that top 8/16, but if they were dominating, then I would expect more than 9% to top, wouldn't you? In fact, the Delver variant you plan on buying into probably has a higher top 8 percentage than Sneak and Show.
Finally, you plan on buying into Delver, which is supposed to have ~50% matchups all around. How can it have a 50% matchup with most of the format and be "on the ropes"? If this is on the ropes for you, then Magic may not be your game.
PS: Turn 1 kills are not that extreme in Legacy. Having protection + Turn 1 kill is extreme. This is why Force of Will is the glue that holds legacy together, so people cannot go off turn 1 with no fear, and so combo decks need to sculpt hands with the kill AND protection on top of that.
Sneak and Show is really annoying as a deck, but that's just my opinion on it. I also believe that it's a fairly easy deck to beat, so long as you're not playing something so rogue/random/doesn't make sense. If you're building Delver, then you should be fine. It's a very resilient archetype with a lot of different variants and consistently do well, more so than any other deck. You have RUG Delver (Canadian Thresh), BUG Delver (Used to be called Team America, I think), UWR Delver (Patriot), Grixis Delver (URB), and U/R Delver. All these versions play pretty well, and each one has a solid match-up against Sneak and Show, I'm sure.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Hey I'll be the first to admit I'm not very well schooled on all the nuances of the format, so take anything I may have said with a grain of salt, especially on what appear to be my own misconceptions of the format. Getting to the truth of it all is why I asked the question.
This is actually quite along the lines of what I was hoping to hear, that no, I shouldn't be dissuaded from getting involved. I'm also hardly wed to Delver, I've just enjoyed watching a few matches with that deck recently (Turtenwald's U/W/R in particular). I'm not well informed enough to know exactly how it performs, and my "on the ropes" comment could have applied to any deck. Magic IS indeed the game for me, thank you very much, which is why I want to go into this next phase of my career as a player as someone who is eager to learn and eager to play at a high level.
I'm on the very earliest steps of that journey though, hence seeking out answers to these types of questions, regardless of how noobish it may make me appear. Evidently I've misjudged the prevalence/degeneracy of the S&T decks, though, and I'm pleased to hear it.
I do truly appreciate the advice though! I'll continue to learn as much as I can from as many people as I can. This is potentially a lot of money I'm about to drop for a deck or two, so i just wanted to allay any concerns I might have before pulling the trigger. Thanks again
PS--also I really don't mean to label anything as broken or un-fun, that is just inexperience talking. I don't mean to put down anyone who likes the deck or any others that might have been labeled similarly in the past. I'm not one to complain about decks in general-- I just wanted to take the temperature of people who are playing now if this was something genuinely out of the ordinary, or more par for the course of Legacy. It appears to be the latter, which is what I was hoping to hear!
Like others have said, the deck is not format warping (although I hate it as much as the next guy) the deck is not overpowered or over represented. Im guessing show and tell decks would make up about 5-10% of the meta a large SCG type event. In my local meta it is probably even below 5%. Add like 5% more to that if you count reanimtor as a "show and tell deck".
If you are thinking about making a delver based tempo deck then you have even less to worry about since Show and tell, along with with other combo decks, are some of your best matchups.
Also, if you really really hate losing to show and tell, go play Death and Taxes you will never lose to the deck again.
Sneak and Show isn't even dominant. It is a good deck, one of the best, but it's not at all the "best" deck or anything. Threshold, stoneblade decks, and BUG all have more top 8 finishes than it does over the past months. I'm not sure where you got the impression that this deck is "format warping" anyway.
The thing about sneak and show is that, like many combo decks, it's a bit of a glass cannon. Yeah, it's more resilient than belcher or burn (burn is arguably a combo deck), because it runs it's own FOW, but it's still linear, predictable, and fragile.
Another thing about sneak and show is the mirror is terrible with the new legend rule.
For what it's worth, I think the deck is popular in large events because it is, relative to a lot of legacy decks, very easy to play. Any half-decent player can take the deck to a large event and with a little luck do pretty well. The same is not at all true about say, Maverick, Storm, or Deathblade. At the LGS, though, I don't think it's very popular.
I can't speak for other stores, but I've never seen it at my store. And that's a store where I've seen elves, maverick, enchantress, UR delver, WUR delver, WUB delver, RUB delver, team italia, dredge, ad nauseaum tendrils, death and taxes, goblins, aggro loam, 4-color stoneblade, infect, affinity, tezzerator, mono blue control, miracle/counterbalance, stax, MUD, dragon stompy, werewolf stompy, zoo, nic-fit, belcher, burn, zombardment, pox, loam pox, several home-brews, and a few more things I'm forgetting.
Sneaking and Showing is certainly not the type of piloting that everyone's into, but another way to look at it and other combo decks like ANT/TES/Elves of roughly the same class is that they fulfill an important function in keeping other types of decks, basically aggro, in place. The same way that aggro decks like Jund, Maverick, and Burn keep tempo and control decks in their place and tempo decks keep combo decks in place, speaking broadly. It's like a tripartite system in an ideal world that's a lot more elegant than trying to control a meta with hyperactive bans or weakening combo and control to not scare people off, and then have aggro unchecked and rampant.
For instance, to add on to the point about it taking up 5-8% of top 8's, combo decks are at an ideal 27-30% of the meta, while Standard is currently 19% Blue Devotion and 78% aggro, and I guarantee that you'll run into even more kinds of Legacy decks that don't always show up in top 8's.
In the end, don't be scared of the deck. You could go a while without even playing it and worst case scenario, you get huge creatures in your face on turn 3. Or you might Surgical Extraction one of only two cards with which they can do anything.
Welcome to Legacy and good luck. The cool thing is that each day you get a tiny bit better at the format.
If you really want to beat sneak and show, just play Death and Taxes. Has the best Sneak and Show matchup in legacy (besides omni-show. Because show and telling in omniscience just beats show and telling in griselbees any day).
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Should you be scared of it? Depends on what you play. If your playing any blue based deck; no. If you play a fair deck that isn't death and taxes; yes. I've switched my deck to RUG and haven't lost a game to SnT since the switch. When I play Jund, I have about a 8% chance of winning the game. What you play will dictate your match against it. Usually Show and Tell players aren't good players to begin with, so even if you lose; just remember they suck anyway.
You have to ask why you want to play Legacy. If you just want to play with cooler, more powerful cards you may wish to rethink, While a Legacy deck in a vacuum is more powerful than a standard, the format is far more hazardous. Unlike Standard, every Legacy deck will have bad match-ups.
There's a reason why there is a misconception that Legacy is full of unfun, non-interactive, overly fast combo decks. It's because people come into Legacy from other formats completely unprepared or combo. They bring decks that are bad matches against combo (this is sometimes a wise decision, but other times not). They don't understand how the combo decks work, so they don't board or mulligan (or play) properly. If such a player runs into too much combo they are not going to have fun and might feel they had no chance against such "degenerate" decks.
Of course some games you really won't have much a chance. You'll be in a bad match-up, they'll draw the nuts, and you'll draw rags. In playing Legacy you just try to mitigate this by having a well selected deck based on an educated guess of what other people will play, And when you do get a bad pairing you mitigate your disadvantage by thoroughly understanding the opposing deck so you can adjust you board, mulligan, and play strategies accordingly.
For a satisfying Legacy experience you will need to learn these skills - it will take time and you will be a bad player in the meanwhile. You'll need to embrace a world of crazy OP interactions and a slew of radically different decks; some of which will tear you a new one (sometimes all evening).
Are you overreacting? Clearly you had an exaggerated idea of S&T's prevalence and power in the format, but this is exactly the reaction many new players have when they try Legacy. I'd say you are being wise and cautious. Don't buy into Legacy unless you can embrace S&T. Embrace learning how it works - its strengths and its weaknesses. Embrace learning how to fight it, even as an underdog. Embrace sometimes losing miserably to it!
If this is past your comfort level, you may be better off sticking to Standard (or Modern). Legacy is not for everyone! Of course if you don't buy in now you may regret it later when you've matured a a player and all the staples have doubled in price (again). Ultimately you'll have to make the call. Best of luck.
I think sneak and show will stay around as long as show and tell is not banned. I don't think it needs to be honestly.
What I find where I play is that some players come in and just do well with SnT, even if they aren't the best players. It seems to attract certain types of people around here.
I don't think you should view the deck as a reason to not play legacy unless it's the only deck people play around you.
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SnT is some of the most boring & un-fun magic to be played.
Just pack a full set of Oblivion Ring in the board, you'll be fine.
As much as I despise that card, you can't let it scare you into not playing, hands down, the best format of Magic!
May I ask how Oblivion Ring protects you from Sneak and Show? I thought that you couldn't target Emrakul with colored spells?
Most people try to be clever with oblivion ring being put into play off of show and tell to eat what the opponent put down. Until the opponent puts in sneak attack and activates it with the o ring trigger on the stack or just hardcasting and activating sneak attack in the same turn.
Deck is not remotely healthy for the format to have. Does it somehow magically improve the metagame somehow? Not even remotely.
Metagames tend to be localized. Go to some local legacy events and see how many people are playing sneak and show in the room. If no one does or there's just 1 guy among many just ignore the deck I think (although it tends to be at the winners tables because of how degenerate the deck is and how easy it is to pilot.)
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May I ask how Oblivion Ring protects you from Sneak and Show? I thought that you couldn't target Emrakul with colored spells?
"When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent."
O-ring doesn't target until its on the battlefield.
Then it's targeted "Triggered" ability "exile another target nonland permanent" goes on the stack, where it can be stifled or resolves, exiling Emrakul.
If he had pro-white then O-ring would do nothing.
Now against Sneak Attack, O-ring isn't very helpful, so you need a FoW or some discard or a Pithing needle.
Plenty of popular Legacy decks (Delver decks, Death and Taxes) have good Sneak & Show matchups without even needing to "try"--they don't tailor their decklists towards that matchup. It's just another powerful combo deck that has good matchups and bad ones
I find it entertaining how these discussions turn into commentaries about the skill levels of players of certain decks. Is any Magic deck really that difficult to pilot? Have you guys never done anything actually challenging? Sideboarding and mulligans are the most difficult parts of Magic and are arguably more difficult with combo decks. Stop whining and insulting because your pet deck loses to SnT. It is arguably the most powerful card in Legacy but some card needs to hold that spot and it does a fine job without being oppressive. Legacy is healthy and wonderful and really has been since Survival was banned. Even the Misstep era wasn't that bad but I am glad it was banned.
I find it entertaining how these discussions turn into commentaries about the skill levels of players of certain decks. Is any Magic deck really that difficult to pilot? Have you guys never done anything actually challenging? Sideboarding and mulligans are the most difficult parts of Magic and are arguably more difficult with combo decks. Stop whining and insulting because your pet deck loses to SnT. It is arguably the most powerful card in Legacy but some card needs to hold that spot and it does a fine job without being oppressive. Legacy is healthy and wonderful and really has been since Survival was banned. Even the Misstep era wasn't that bad but I am glad it was banned.
I agree SnT is good for the format, if everyone is just playing samey decks that put different quantities of delvers, goyfs, sfms, and tnns into play the format would get stale.
Also plenty of decks have good matchups against SnT decks so what will actually be seen is a cyclical meta where if SnT gets out of control then these decks like death and taxes will show up on top but if they get out of control decks with favorable matchups against them come back and then we'll see SnT again. A cyclical meta is a great way to keep the game from becoming stale and it is probably the ideal state of legacy.
It is by no means format warping, you run into it every so often. Just one of those decks, I wouldn't worry about it. You will regret NOT getting into Legacy sooner than later when you do make the jump. Play all the best cards from all ranges of MTG what can be better than that.
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Question is: is the dominance of Sneak & Show going to last? Honestly this deck makes me not even want to try to go up against it, and I'm not the type to start playing it right off the bat just to avoid getting blown out by it all the time. Since I haven't been around very long, I don't really know what to expect for the format going forward.
Is a format-warping deck like this a common thing? Will the meta eventually adjust, the deck fall out of favor, etc? It just seems like a very un-fun way to play magic and I don't want to invest in a deck that will always be on the ropes against a totally broken kill you on turn 1 kind of deck. (I know combo decks aren't going anywhere, but this is extreme, right?)
Am I overreacting? Have there been scenarios like this in the past? Really just wanted to hear what some of you veterans thought about the state of the format, especially if you could put yourself in the shoes of someone just now wanting to dive in.
Thanks very much for any commentary!
quick edit-- I was a little loose with my wording in this post, please see my follow-up below before chopping my head off
For what it's worth as well, bringing up "un-fun way to play" would suggest you fit into the "scrub" category that was mentioned in another thread. A big part of legacy is being able to adapt. Those that don't are doomed to failure.
Otherwise the most recent format warping cards were mental misstep and survival of the fittest. The hammer was taken to them for their effect on the format. Cards that epitomized warping the format.
Hope that helps some. Also I will apologize I advance if it comes off as to harsh.
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Just pack a full set of Oblivion Ring in the board, you'll be fine.
As much as I despise that card, you can't let it scare you into not playing, hands down, the best format of Magic!
It is a deck with a lot of raw power (yes, possibly too much) but its fairly linear game plan still leaves it vulnerable to specific hate.
The deck might be a bit annoying, and probably the simplest combo deck to play successfully in the format, but in terms of "format warping"? I think Delver and Deathrite have both had a greater influence on the overall meta.
so about you, get over it, if you see that S&T is played a lot in your area, just start looking for a deck that can battle S&T and you will be fine
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First, you cannot say that playing Sneak and Show is an unfun way of winning. What if I like playing big creatures? I think your Delver of Secrets is a very unfun way of winning. I mean, seriously, a 3 power creature that takes FIVE WHOLE TURNS of me having no interaction with it to win? That's just soooo boring. Am I right?
Second, it is a common misconception that Legacy is a turn 1 have Force of Will or lose format. Sneak and Show will most likely not blow you out turn 1. I went into the format thinking I would get bashed T1 by Sneak and Show all day. In fact, it is quite rare that they will go for the turn 1 kill without protection from a Force of Will. The statistics of having Sneak/Show + fattie + ramp + Force is very small if you want to do the math. Very few players will go off T1 blindly without protection because that's just asking to die to FoW. In fact, Sneak and Show is a turn 3 or turn 4 deck, possibly with another turn if Show and Tell was used on Emrakul. If T1 kills are what worry you, I suggest you look into how to counter Belcher and Oops All Spells instead. Those "totally broken turn 1" decks actually have a turn 1 win rate of much higher than 50%, and will almost certainly attempt to go off T2 if they haven't tried already.
Third, Sneak and Show is by no means dominating the format as the previous poster has said. If you look at http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE and the metagame breakdown, it comprises of less than 10% of the decks in the last 2 months, and 5% of the total large events. Of course, this only takes into account the decks that top 8/16, but if they were dominating, then I would expect more than 9% to top, wouldn't you? In fact, the Delver variant you plan on buying into probably has a higher top 8 percentage than Sneak and Show.
Finally, you plan on buying into Delver, which is supposed to have ~50% matchups all around. How can it have a 50% matchup with most of the format and be "on the ropes"? If this is on the ropes for you, then Magic may not be your game.
PS: Turn 1 kills are not that extreme in Legacy. Having protection + Turn 1 kill is extreme. This is why Force of Will is the glue that holds legacy together, so people cannot go off turn 1 with no fear, and so combo decks need to sculpt hands with the kill AND protection on top of that.
This is actually quite along the lines of what I was hoping to hear, that no, I shouldn't be dissuaded from getting involved. I'm also hardly wed to Delver, I've just enjoyed watching a few matches with that deck recently (Turtenwald's U/W/R in particular). I'm not well informed enough to know exactly how it performs, and my "on the ropes" comment could have applied to any deck. Magic IS indeed the game for me, thank you very much, which is why I want to go into this next phase of my career as a player as someone who is eager to learn and eager to play at a high level.
I'm on the very earliest steps of that journey though, hence seeking out answers to these types of questions, regardless of how noobish it may make me appear. Evidently I've misjudged the prevalence/degeneracy of the S&T decks, though, and I'm pleased to hear it.
I do truly appreciate the advice though! I'll continue to learn as much as I can from as many people as I can. This is potentially a lot of money I'm about to drop for a deck or two, so i just wanted to allay any concerns I might have before pulling the trigger. Thanks again
PS--also I really don't mean to label anything as broken or un-fun, that is just inexperience talking. I don't mean to put down anyone who likes the deck or any others that might have been labeled similarly in the past. I'm not one to complain about decks in general-- I just wanted to take the temperature of people who are playing now if this was something genuinely out of the ordinary, or more par for the course of Legacy. It appears to be the latter, which is what I was hoping to hear!
If you are thinking about making a delver based tempo deck then you have even less to worry about since Show and tell, along with with other combo decks, are some of your best matchups.
Also, if you really really hate losing to show and tell, go play Death and Taxes you will never lose to the deck again.
Sneak Show does suffer from splash sideboard hate mainly aimed at OmniTell variants (Ashen Rider doesn't work against Sneak Attack), though.
Yeah, it will have auto-wins like turn 1 lotus petal, ancient tomb, show and tell, emrakul, the aeons torn. Problem is, that can run right into FOW, and what are the odds that a hand like that ALSO has it's own FOW and another blue card to pitch to it? More often, it'll take a few turns, giving other decks a chance to answer. And there are answers. Oblivion ring, innocent blood, liliana of the veil, journey to nowhere, supreme verdict, and arguably even toxic deluge can take out emrakul. Stifle can counter the annihilator trigger, buying you a turn, or make griselbrand read "pay 7 life: do nothing."
Another thing about sneak and show is the mirror is terrible with the new legend rule.
For what it's worth, I think the deck is popular in large events because it is, relative to a lot of legacy decks, very easy to play. Any half-decent player can take the deck to a large event and with a little luck do pretty well. The same is not at all true about say, Maverick, Storm, or Deathblade. At the LGS, though, I don't think it's very popular.
I can't speak for other stores, but I've never seen it at my store. And that's a store where I've seen elves, maverick, enchantress, UR delver, WUR delver, WUB delver, RUB delver, team italia, dredge, ad nauseaum tendrils, death and taxes, goblins, aggro loam, 4-color stoneblade, infect, affinity, tezzerator, mono blue control, miracle/counterbalance, stax, MUD, dragon stompy, werewolf stompy, zoo, nic-fit, belcher, burn, zombardment, pox, loam pox, several home-brews, and a few more things I'm forgetting.
For instance, to add on to the point about it taking up 5-8% of top 8's, combo decks are at an ideal 27-30% of the meta, while Standard is currently 19% Blue Devotion and 78% aggro, and I guarantee that you'll run into even more kinds of Legacy decks that don't always show up in top 8's.
In the end, don't be scared of the deck. You could go a while without even playing it and worst case scenario, you get huge creatures in your face on turn 3. Or you might Surgical Extraction one of only two cards with which they can do anything.
Welcome to Legacy and good luck. The cool thing is that each day you get a tiny bit better at the format.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
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RUG
Enchantress
Plus SneakShow is not dominating or too good in the format. It is healthy for the format.
There's a reason why there is a misconception that Legacy is full of unfun, non-interactive, overly fast combo decks. It's because people come into Legacy from other formats completely unprepared or combo. They bring decks that are bad matches against combo (this is sometimes a wise decision, but other times not). They don't understand how the combo decks work, so they don't board or mulligan (or play) properly. If such a player runs into too much combo they are not going to have fun and might feel they had no chance against such "degenerate" decks.
Of course some games you really won't have much a chance. You'll be in a bad match-up, they'll draw the nuts, and you'll draw rags. In playing Legacy you just try to mitigate this by having a well selected deck based on an educated guess of what other people will play, And when you do get a bad pairing you mitigate your disadvantage by thoroughly understanding the opposing deck so you can adjust you board, mulligan, and play strategies accordingly.
For a satisfying Legacy experience you will need to learn these skills - it will take time and you will be a bad player in the meanwhile. You'll need to embrace a world of crazy OP interactions and a slew of radically different decks; some of which will tear you a new one (sometimes all evening).
Are you overreacting? Clearly you had an exaggerated idea of S&T's prevalence and power in the format, but this is exactly the reaction many new players have when they try Legacy. I'd say you are being wise and cautious. Don't buy into Legacy unless you can embrace S&T. Embrace learning how it works - its strengths and its weaknesses. Embrace learning how to fight it, even as an underdog. Embrace sometimes losing miserably to it!
If this is past your comfort level, you may be better off sticking to Standard (or Modern). Legacy is not for everyone! Of course if you don't buy in now you may regret it later when you've matured a a player and all the staples have doubled in price (again). Ultimately you'll have to make the call. Best of luck.
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RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
What I find where I play is that some players come in and just do well with SnT, even if they aren't the best players. It seems to attract certain types of people around here.
I don't think you should view the deck as a reason to not play legacy unless it's the only deck people play around you.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
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Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
May I ask how Oblivion Ring protects you from Sneak and Show? I thought that you couldn't target Emrakul with colored spells?
Deck is not remotely healthy for the format to have. Does it somehow magically improve the metagame somehow? Not even remotely.
Metagames tend to be localized. Go to some local legacy events and see how many people are playing sneak and show in the room. If no one does or there's just 1 guy among many just ignore the deck I think (although it tends to be at the winners tables because of how degenerate the deck is and how easy it is to pilot.)
Currently Playing:
Retired
"When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent."
O-ring doesn't target until its on the battlefield.
Then it's targeted "Triggered" ability "exile another target nonland permanent" goes on the stack, where it can be stifled or resolves, exiling Emrakul.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn has protection from colored "spells" not colored abilities.
If he had pro-white then O-ring would do nothing.
Now against Sneak Attack, O-ring isn't very helpful, so you need a FoW or some discard or a Pithing needle.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
I agree SnT is good for the format, if everyone is just playing samey decks that put different quantities of delvers, goyfs, sfms, and tnns into play the format would get stale.
Also plenty of decks have good matchups against SnT decks so what will actually be seen is a cyclical meta where if SnT gets out of control then these decks like death and taxes will show up on top but if they get out of control decks with favorable matchups against them come back and then we'll see SnT again. A cyclical meta is a great way to keep the game from becoming stale and it is probably the ideal state of legacy.
It is by no means format warping, you run into it every so often. Just one of those decks, I wouldn't worry about it. You will regret NOT getting into Legacy sooner than later when you do make the jump. Play all the best cards from all ranges of MTG what can be better than that.
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
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