I love Vengevine but it doesn't work out so great in Modern. I asked some advice on basing a deck around it from some more experienced players and they told me it is played a lot in Legacy since graveyard strategies are a lot faster and better supported.
Is this true? Is it a wincon in Legacy? Is basing a deck around Vengevine fine? I would love to play it.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Not really since Survival got the axe. Every deck it could go into something else does the job better. While it may be a "Free" card, the hoops you have to jump though to make it free limit its use since you no longer have the discard and tutor in Survival.
Occasionally it had been seen in some elf decks of past generations revolving around using intuition in conjunction with a lot of fast mana as a back up plan. But elves these days forgoes that package because there's just too much in mono-green that is good. It really only splashes other colours out of the sideboard for stuff like Ruric Thar, Cabal Therapy and whatever.
It doesnt really have a place in legacy any more. There is not an effective way to get them in your graveyard and recur them like there was with survival (and basking rootwalla). Also, deathrite shaman and rest in peace are things now.
It's a 4-power hastey guy; which is somewhat relevant IMO. The only removal that is relevant to him is Swords, which is nice.
The haste means he can be tech to kill 'Walkers quite easily and his damage level is sufficient to surprise clock someone and put them on the defensive.
He has a few issues to work around, one of which is people still treating him like a combo card.
There is a danger here, in that Shaman is not survival of the fittest. She is a creature, which means she is easier to kill and she has summoning sickness. Also, she has to tap to use her ability. I would not try to compare them. Instead, I would look for other ways to make vengevine good. I don't think you can try and replicate something by doing it worse. Doing it differently is a logically sound option though. Just my 2 cents.
There is a danger here, in that Shaman is not survival of the fittest. She is a creature, which means she is easier to kill and she has summoning sickness. Also, she has to tap to use her ability. I would not try to compare them. Instead, I would look for other ways to make vengevine good. I don't think you can try and replicate something by doing it worse. Doing it differently is a logically sound option though. Just my 2 cents.
The downsides of Shaman compared to SotF are obvious to the point that I didn't feel they were worth mentioning. (TLDR: duh) There is no problem with comparing them. Perhaps you meant they shouldn't be assumed to be comparable, which I would never do. You can certainly try to replicate something by doing something worse, particularly when the original was overpowered. MUD is a viable Legacy deck despite not having access to Mishra's Workshop. Please post again if you have something to add besides a condescending tone.
Honestly, I think Vengevine is not viable in Legacy but it is close enough to try.
The downsides of Shaman compared to SotF are obvious to the point that I didn't feel they were worth mentioning. (TLDR: duh) There is no problem with comparing them. Perhaps you meant they shouldn't be assumed to be comparable, which I would never do. You can certainly try to replicate something by doing something worse, particularly when the original was overpowered. MUD is a viable Legacy deck despite not having access to Mishra's Workshop. Please post again if you have something to add besides a condescending tone.
Honestly, I think Vengevine is not viable in Legacy but it is close enough to try.
Oh I had no intention of presenting my arguments with a condescending tone, so I apologize if you took it that way. I was just trying to give my opinion on the matter. You offer a good argument in that the deck was over powered, so doing it "worse" has potential to still be good (even if it's not as good).
The comparison of Legacy MUD to Vintage mud is risky though, because they are representing two different formats. Yes, vintage mud is better, buts its also in a format where every deck is inherently better. The OP is asking about a deck that is in the same format. Either way though, I guess this is not entirely relevant to the Vengevine issue.
Oh I had no intention of presenting my arguments with a condescending tone, so I apologize if you took it that way. I was just trying to give my opinion on the matter. You offer a good argument in that the deck was over powered, so doing it "worse" has potential to still be good (even if it's not as good).
The comparison of Legacy MUD to Vintage mud is risky though, because they are representing two different formats. Yes, vintage mud is better, buts its also in a format where every deck is inherently better. The OP is asking about a deck that is in the same format. Either way though, I guess this is not entirely relevant to the Vengevine issue.
You win by being the nice guy. I apologize for the rude tone in my last post.
Is this true? Is it a wincon in Legacy? Is basing a deck around Vengevine fine? I would love to play it.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Legacy:
:symg::symb::symg:Pox:symg::symb::symg:
Edh:
:symg::symw::symu:Angus Mackenzie:symg::symw::symu:
It doesnt really have a place in legacy any more. There is not an effective way to get them in your graveyard and recur them like there was with survival (and basking rootwalla). Also, deathrite shaman and rest in peace are things now.
The haste means he can be tech to kill 'Walkers quite easily and his damage level is sufficient to surprise clock someone and put them on the defensive.
He has a few issues to work around, one of which is people still treating him like a combo card.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
There is a danger here, in that Shaman is not survival of the fittest. She is a creature, which means she is easier to kill and she has summoning sickness. Also, she has to tap to use her ability. I would not try to compare them. Instead, I would look for other ways to make vengevine good. I don't think you can try and replicate something by doing it worse. Doing it differently is a logically sound option though. Just my 2 cents.
Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.
The downsides of Shaman compared to SotF are obvious to the point that I didn't feel they were worth mentioning. (TLDR: duh) There is no problem with comparing them. Perhaps you meant they shouldn't be assumed to be comparable, which I would never do. You can certainly try to replicate something by doing something worse, particularly when the original was overpowered. MUD is a viable Legacy deck despite not having access to Mishra's Workshop. Please post again if you have something to add besides a condescending tone.
Honestly, I think Vengevine is not viable in Legacy but it is close enough to try.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener
Oh I had no intention of presenting my arguments with a condescending tone, so I apologize if you took it that way. I was just trying to give my opinion on the matter. You offer a good argument in that the deck was over powered, so doing it "worse" has potential to still be good (even if it's not as good).
The comparison of Legacy MUD to Vintage mud is risky though, because they are representing two different formats. Yes, vintage mud is better, buts its also in a format where every deck is inherently better. The OP is asking about a deck that is in the same format. Either way though, I guess this is not entirely relevant to the Vengevine issue.
Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.
You win by being the nice guy. I apologize for the rude tone in my last post.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener