This topic came up on my local Legacy facebook page (as it usually does). Someone brought up that, instead of hyping already powerful cards and increasing the price by $10ish (Dark Confidant), why doesn't SCG get their writers to break obscure $1-2 cards so they can increase the price of those cards by $10. It may seem more challenging than putting 38-9 of the very best Legacy staples together and calling it a deck (a monkey can put together Deathblade and it would probably have a better manabase) but the payoff can be greater. We need more pros who actually care about the format working to discover more tech.
As for "solving" Deathblade, have you seen it's manabase?? 4 colours, 3 wastelands, no basics. Someone needs to take a Bloodmoon, Price of Progress or Rishidan Port to that deck. Looks like Death and Taxes is the hero Legacy deserves.
Success sells. Thus, in order to break one of those $1-2 cards, they need to be a the centerpoint of a new successful strategy. Typically, that's not going to be the case. As much as I love new rogue strategies that are also successful, I feel that at this point Legacy's "underperforming power cards" have reached saturation. Cards that are recognized as powerful but underutilized have already been bumped up in value. Example: Shallow Grave. It makes a good appearance from time to time, but it is not part of the typical Top 8 appearance. Further to that point, these types of cards are usually too narrow to include in "good-stuffs" kind of decks. Thus, their application is limited.
Moreover, the SCG crews don't just exclusively focus on Legacy and may not have the time to test and develop brand new decks. There is a good bit of info-sharing and taking a list in faith to tune. These pros don't have much to gain by developing new strategies. It does not help them qualify for the Pro Tour. Legacy is and will remain to be an amateur's format (and I prefer it stay that way!).
Peace.
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Twitter - @MTGKoby | MODO - Koby 5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Been a long-time follower of these forums and the SCG Legacy streams, but this topic prompted me to finally create an account and voice my mind.
Welcome!!! Always nice to see new people posting.
However, as a long-time follower, that must mean you are a watcher and not a fan of interaction, but I could be wrong. Forums are great by sharing what you know, not taking from them what you want, come join us.
Does anyone remember when the 12post player won that open a few months back? They showed his entire run throughout the top 8, which I thought was odd of SCG to do but incredibly awesome. To say that SCG completely ignores weird Legacy decks is not true, although this last week was way too saturated with Deathblade. In the last year or so, we've seen 12post, UB Tezzeret, Spiral Tide, TES and some other strange choices win it all, and they were all either piloted by great players or stalwarts of their own weird decks.
I'm just going to poke a few wholes in your arguments and play devil's advocate. I'm not disagreeing with you, just providing proof how this helps SCG and not the MTG community.
12 Post happens to run cards that are basically very cheap for dealers to pick up, and when it becomes popular from time to time they make a killing because you need much more cards than just a 4 set to play that deck. It is a huge money maker, granted not $100 or more like you see on Jace and such, but %-wise, it is above 100% profit. Profit margin percentages are important on smaller cards, and that is where you often make your money as a dealer.
I know this to be true from personal experience...business economics and MTG dealership experience.
Now, I think trying to take away viewership from SCG in response to showing too much of one deck to try and hurt their business is the wrong thing to do.
I don't think people should boycott something, if you are upset with it, don't watch it. If you like it continue. Simple as that. People shouldn't organize against a company. If the business notices their viewership dropping along with their sales, they'll change, or they'll fail and someone else will rise up to fill the need of the market.
SCG has done a lot to help the Legacy scene, so damaging that seems not to be in anyone's best interest.
They may have done good, but they have also done bad things to the Legacy scene. I would say more good than bad, I am lucky to be in a scene that is unaffected by SCG.
I think if people took the time to master their pet deck instead of what SCG tells them is the best, we would get some more enjoyable matches. The aforementioned winners have done it before. People need to not be afraid to stray away from the "best of three colors" fair decks and take advantage of the wide range of Legacy strategies at their disposal.
Agreed, this is at the heart of the Legacy community and there are those who do it. However there will always be those that can not design decks, not want to chance losing for what ever reason.
The last two are the reason like these forums are so important to the community. Sharing ideas only helps to better the format. Sharing experience with a deck helps people who build them. All of this helps the people that fall in to the last two player types to play different decks and thus better Meta.
BTW, I have purchased cards in large quantities and then built decks around them, then sold the cards for profit. Furthermore, I have written long card discussions on why certain cards are good after I purchased large quantities. A few example would be Flash, Protean Hulk, Epochrasite, and others.
Lastly, I have also notice that certain stores followed my ideas on these forums and marked up prices if I first talked about them rather than buying them first. So, the people that just watch and do not post actually frustrate me because they tend to be the dealers trying to get a jump on prices.
Just saying.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
NOT A LARGE NUMBER ?!?!? 25% ????? Are you out of your mind ?! 0_o
It's IMMENSE! In legacy it is extremely uncommon for a deck to have such a large representation in a top 16 outside of breakout decks which are seen for the first time and whent he environment is not ready. Blade has been around for a lot, it is a huge number 4 out of 16!
4 is still not a large number. There was a large variety of decks in the top tables. Why couldn't they have shown those?
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Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
I'm pretty convinced that the recent success of Deathblade is much more the result of highly skilled players picking the deck up than it is about the deck actually being as good as it is showing on paper. Deathblade can win by inches against anyone if the pilot is better than their opponent. If you put it in the hands of a significant percentage of the top tier of players in a room, you'll see it show in the top tables, but it's not an especially good deck in the sense that it can post above average results if the people who are playing it are anything less than above average players. It goes out with a whimper if the pilot doesn't know the plan for winning the matchup by turn 3 at the latest, and you have to jam a lot of games with it to know how to make it more than an awkward pile of staples stitched together.
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
I wish someone would just take Merfolk to one of these events. The win percentage vs all Stoneblade decks is high, and if you really wanted to build to beat Deathblade just replace some of the soft counters with Stifle. Literally impossible to lose.
Yea this coverage is terrible. I really could care less about watching Star City Friends play magic week in week out. Especially if they are all on boring decks
As an aside, I love that someone from GYGO always has something to say in the links you post--feels like home.
I'm looking forward to the next articles in the series, though I'm particularly wondering how the author's numbers account for the international fanbase--for instance, I haven't been able to watch the SCG Legacy Events because the finals run on Monday mornings when I have to be at work due to a ~12 hour time difference.
As an aside, I love that someone from GYGO always has something to say in the links you post--feels like home.
I'm looking forward to the next articles in the series, though I'm particularly wondering how the author's numbers account for the international fanbase--for instance, I haven't been able to watch the SCG Legacy Events because the finals run on Monday mornings when I have to be at work due to a ~12 hour time difference.
You can watch it later under the "previous broadcast".
So anyone else annoyed that they seem to not care about the gamestate on camera? The triggers on Visions is not a may effect, if you dont remove them its invalid gamestate. I know Deathblade winning makes them money but come on.
So anyone else annoyed that they seem to not care about the gamestate on camera? The triggers on Visions is not a may effect, if you dont remove them its invalid gamestate. I know Deathblade winning makes them money but come on.
Yeah you can miss them now since it is an effect that is good for you. Sucks, but try to not be bad and it will be okay. Great to see Bryant Cook doing it on cam! TES all the way!
I stopped watching the SCG stream during the Elves vs Deathblade matchup; not because Deathblade was featured again but rather because the players (Jackie Lee & Christian Calcano, respectively) were misplaying their decks. The commentators were not knowledgeable enough about the decks/matchup to assist in retaining my interest.
If I want to watch two scrub playing poorly I could just go to my LGS. I don't expect this poor play from two Professional players. SMH
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Twitter - @MTGKoby | MODO - Koby 5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
I stopped watching the SCG stream during the Elves vs Deathblade matchup; not because Deathblade was featured again but rather because the players (Jackie Lee & Christian Calcano, respectively) were misplaying their decks. The commentators were not knowledgeable enough about the decks/matchup to assist in retaining my interest.
If I want to watch two scrub playing poorly I could just go to my LGS. I don't expect this poor play from two Professional players. SMH
That is true, I do agree but from the commentators point of view when setting up this on camera match both players were 3-0 and are recognizable figures in the Magic community.
SCG Producers are unable to predict if they are going to make play mistakes.
There were some odd on camera matches all around like the Shardless BUG player that had breeding pools instead of tropical islands but somehow had these signed underground seas with the artist's drawing on them.
i'm just tired of watching so much deathblade matchups. I know scg wants to promote todd anderson's deck, but cmon. its boring.
Bring in something different, like a pox deck or lands deck just for the hell of it.
If somebody was doing well with those decks, they'd end up getting a feature match. They're not going to put two no name players that are X-2 or X-3 on stream just because they're playing different decks.
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Winner of the SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Jul 26-28, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
I wish someone would just take Merfolk to one of these events. The win percentage vs all Stoneblade decks is high, and if you really wanted to build to beat Deathblade just replace some of the soft counters with Stifle. Literally impossible to lose.
There was a lot of Merfolk at this tournament.
I played against it once, and sat next to it numerous times. I even was a Merfolk mirror. It seemed to be everywhere: and most of my friends played matches against it as well.
...
I've seen a lot of jaw-dropping plays from X-2, X-3 players that I didn't recognize, playing pimped-out decks that I couldn't identify at first. Various individuals watching such games have expressed great consternation that they weren't feature matches. The games are out there, every weekend, we only need to figure out how to identify them.
Success sells. Thus, in order to break one of those $1-2 cards, they need to be a the centerpoint of a new successful strategy. Typically, that's not going to be the case. As much as I love new rogue strategies that are also successful, I feel that at this point Legacy's "underperforming power cards" have reached saturation. Cards that are recognized as powerful but underutilized have already been bumped up in value. Example: Shallow Grave. It makes a good appearance from time to time, but it is not part of the typical Top 8 appearance. Further to that point, these types of cards are usually too narrow to include in "good-stuffs" kind of decks. Thus, their application is limited.
Moreover, the SCG crews don't just exclusively focus on Legacy and may not have the time to test and develop brand new decks. There is a good bit of info-sharing and taking a list in faith to tune. These pros don't have much to gain by developing new strategies. It does not help them qualify for the Pro Tour. Legacy is and will remain to be an amateur's format (and I prefer it stay that way!).
Peace.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
Welcome!!! Always nice to see new people posting.
However, as a long-time follower, that must mean you are a watcher and not a fan of interaction, but I could be wrong. Forums are great by sharing what you know, not taking from them what you want, come join us.
I'm just going to poke a few wholes in your arguments and play devil's advocate. I'm not disagreeing with you, just providing proof how this helps SCG and not the MTG community.
12 Post happens to run cards that are basically very cheap for dealers to pick up, and when it becomes popular from time to time they make a killing because you need much more cards than just a 4 set to play that deck. It is a huge money maker, granted not $100 or more like you see on Jace and such, but %-wise, it is above 100% profit. Profit margin percentages are important on smaller cards, and that is where you often make your money as a dealer.
I know this to be true from personal experience...business economics and MTG dealership experience.
I don't think people should boycott something, if you are upset with it, don't watch it. If you like it continue. Simple as that. People shouldn't organize against a company. If the business notices their viewership dropping along with their sales, they'll change, or they'll fail and someone else will rise up to fill the need of the market.
Free Market Principles 101.
They may have done good, but they have also done bad things to the Legacy scene. I would say more good than bad, I am lucky to be in a scene that is unaffected by SCG.
Thank you...
<- Mr. Anderson
Agreed, this is at the heart of the Legacy community and there are those who do it. However there will always be those that can not design decks, not want to chance losing for what ever reason.
The last two are the reason like these forums are so important to the community. Sharing ideas only helps to better the format. Sharing experience with a deck helps people who build them. All of this helps the people that fall in to the last two player types to play different decks and thus better Meta.
BTW, I have purchased cards in large quantities and then built decks around them, then sold the cards for profit. Furthermore, I have written long card discussions on why certain cards are good after I purchased large quantities. A few example would be Flash, Protean Hulk, Epochrasite, and others.
Lastly, I have also notice that certain stores followed my ideas on these forums and marked up prices if I first talked about them rather than buying them first. So, the people that just watch and do not post actually frustrate me because they tend to be the dealers trying to get a jump on prices.
Just saying.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
4 is still not a large number. There was a large variety of decks in the top tables. Why couldn't they have shown those?
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=537903
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26391_How-To-Improve-Magic-Coverage-Part-One.html?fb_comment_id=fbc_205893339564103_697105_206084749544962#f105306204ac20a
Like Squandered Resources on Facebook for updates on article releases, deck lists, and more!
Getting Started in Legacy and Legacy Budget Primer 5!
Special thanks to Bornnover for the banner used in those articles.
I'm looking forward to the next articles in the series, though I'm particularly wondering how the author's numbers account for the international fanbase--for instance, I haven't been able to watch the SCG Legacy Events because the finals run on Monday mornings when I have to be at work due to a ~12 hour time difference.
You can watch it later under the "previous broadcast".
Actually, I just switched to the FF VII channel instead.
The new trigger rules make those missable.
RGoblinsR
RWerewolf StompyR
URU/R DelverRU
RGBelcherGR
BThe GateB
GBLoam PoxBG
WGBNic FitBGW
UHigh TideU
UMerfolkU
UFaerieNinjaStillU
WBUAffinityUBW
GSquirrelsG
UWGSliversGWU
Well they are going to feature decks that are doing well. Not the players going X-3 with fringe decks.
If I want to watch two scrub playing poorly I could just go to my LGS. I don't expect this poor play from two Professional players. SMH
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
That is true, I do agree but from the commentators point of view when setting up this on camera match both players were 3-0 and are recognizable figures in the Magic community.
SCG Producers are unable to predict if they are going to make play mistakes.
There were some odd on camera matches all around like the Shardless BUG player that had breeding pools instead of tropical islands but somehow had these signed underground seas with the artist's drawing on them.
Bring in something different, like a pox deck or lands deck just for the hell of it.
If somebody was doing well with those decks, they'd end up getting a feature match. They're not going to put two no name players that are X-2 or X-3 on stream just because they're playing different decks.
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
twitter
There was a lot of Merfolk at this tournament.
I played against it once, and sat next to it numerous times. I even was a Merfolk mirror. It seemed to be everywhere: and most of my friends played matches against it as well.
...
I've seen a lot of jaw-dropping plays from X-2, X-3 players that I didn't recognize, playing pimped-out decks that I couldn't identify at first. Various individuals watching such games have expressed great consternation that they weren't feature matches. The games are out there, every weekend, we only need to figure out how to identify them.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Sure, but are you telling me there were no others playing different decks with good records that could have been featured?