Just to clarify for people who don't understand. Currently the words "Darksteel Colossus is indestructible." is NOT an ability. It functions exactly like "Dryad Arbor is Green". Currently; Humility or other "lose all ability" effects will not be able to take that away.
This is NOT true.
Quote from Comprehensive Rules »
700.4a Although the text “[This permanent] is indestructible” is an ability, actually being
indestructible is neither an ability nor a characteristic. It’s just something that’s true about a permanent.
The proper interaction between Humility and Darksteel Colossus is Darksteel Colossus does not have any abilities, and thus isn't granted being indestructible.
As for Dryad Arbor, first, it now has a color-indicator and no longer has a characteristic-defining ability.
Also, IF it had a characteristic defining ability, the way layering rules work, color-changing effects are applied before ability-adding/ability-removing effects, thus it would still BE green, but it wouldn't have the ability "[This permanent] is green."
Edit: Nor any other abilities.
While Humility is in play, Dryad Arbor does not have any abilities, you can't tap it for mana, and it's still green.
Only advantage I gain is using Liliana twice in a turn, that is FOR THE WIN.
In all honestly though, I think the point of something being a legend is truly unique. How can there be say... two of Lebron James on the basketball court at once playing each other? Its dumb.
I remember playing with mana burn, which i think should come back.
Only advantage I gain is using Liliana twice in a turn, that is FOR THE WIN.
In all honestly though, I think the point of something being a legend is truly unique. How can there be say... two of Lebron James on the basketball court at once playing each other? Its dumb.
I remember playing with mana burn, which i think should come back.
But if Lebron James got Dolly-ed, how can his doppelgänger cause him to explode?
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Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Now when a player sits down to play with you, he can be loyal to both of you. Kinda like how in real magic you play politics in a three-player game.
Flavorfully the decision works for planeswalkers.
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
These are my flavour attempts to deal with the new legend and walker rules:
Legend Rule
All legends come with a Clone posse. This somehow includes lands (sister cities?). You can summon a legend again to...uh...refresh it.
Walker Rule
You may call on a walker with the same name as one you've already summoned. If you do, that walker pulls out the respective spellbook, resets his/her loyalty to you according to that spellbook, and readies him/herself to cast another spell from the new spellbook.
A walker summoned by 2+ players goes to that player whenever that player's turn comes up. All other players get...uh..."doubles" of that walker when it's not their turn. (Jace's double is an illusion that resembles him. Ironically, the most powerful walkers assign mooks with signs as their "doubles".)
What I want to know most about this change is if anyone at wizards actually tested it for Legacy. They have said time and time again they dont test for legacy, and they talk about banning things that get too strong in the article. I dont like the sound of any of this.
I bet Gaea's cradle gets the axe. It was already bonkers, now it's utterly broken. Watch it rejoin it's brother tolarian academy.
Cradle is now a little better at doing what it does - making lots of G in a deck which can reliable have a few (or more) creatures in play very early. I can't see any deck other than Elves making use of it.
Do you really think Elves will become so much stronger that the dominate the format and warp the meta?
It makes sense with clones but not with the same legendary object. Unless we break space and time 2 jaces doesn't make sense.
Which has already been done multiple times with Legends. There's two Kamahls, two Rorixes, two Mikaeuses, and you can have a Karn Silver golem on the same board as a Karn Liberated, to name just a few examples.
And to be honest, I'm not sure how two Jaces being present simultaneously somehow killing both made any more sense.
This change is going to change nothing. It just some small tweeks. Calm down.
Oh hi casual legacy player who doesn't understand things. This is a more than awful change. I like how they cater specifically bad rules/card recently. Timmy needs so fun too afterall.
Yes they do use clone effects. Or innocent blood. Or swords to plowshares. I don't really see a lot of decks using clone effects... hm. You know what else stops Show and tell? Force of will. Counterspell. Thoughtseize. Cabal Therapy.
There's this one color, it has a 'u', an 'l', and an 'e', and another letter in it. SNT run's that color... You seem to spout off what cards do, but have absolutely zero knowledge of the meta, or strategy behind the cards. Congratulations, you can read deck lists.
Well done wotc you really don't give a **** about legacy do you?
Well, the rule change is offensive to Legacy players because it promotes less interactive play and the "no drawbacks" garbage WotC have been pushing to please the newbs. But this won't hurt Legacy (it will change it a little). It's still better than the pre-Kamigawa rule!
As for WotC hating Legacy, maybe this move was made just so they can print Legendary duals (as has been mentioned).
Ilse Of White
Legendary Land - Island Plains
(T: ad U or W to your mana pool).
They couldn't print that before because new players would cry if they had a land die. But if this was indeed their motive I'd say they care about Legacy more than we ever thought. This land (under the new rules) would be a huge boost for budget players - at least psychologically.
I really like the idea of playing more cliques to be able to snipe out opposing jaces. Other than that karakas seems very good in control decks but really bad in a lot of other decks mostly show and tell. It does not do what they want it to anymore and could see less play.
I think the only benefit for S&T is a better match vs Merfolk.
Depends on at what point they go off at though. Merfolk are now able to vial in a PI EoT and hose them with whatever legendary they decided to drop. I'd say it's a mix as to whether this ends up being a better matchup.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
After some vigorous testing I can't say much about Jace. But its no longer about getting Jace out first. When two Jaces come out, each player will Brainstorm so much that it doesn't matter who had theirs out first. Its all about card quality and the mana to play those cards. A recommend having access to a second planeswalker to seal the deal because Fateseal is a lot less appealing when the opponent has Jace.
Now double Jitte interactions is probably the most profound. It can no longer be killed easily which means in a mirror match, someone is going to get counters on theirs. When that person gets Jitte counters, they can mow down whatever the opponent tried to equip their Jitte to; prevent them from ever getting counters.
I suspect Lingering Souls is going to go down in popularity. There is less demand for Jace killers now. Not to mention Lingering Souls are terrible at fighting a Jitte. I personally prefer Baleful Strix instead of Lingering Souls. They make awesome blockers, one of the best. Also they give card advantage. Not much of a threat but I am testing a deck with other planeswalkers to diversify my threats. Maybe a single Entreat the Angels.
It is a good change. Fits into the lore perfectly. You can't summon the real one, but a copy of it. This copy is hard to maintain so you cannot contain 2 on the field at the same time. Also, how was a hologram/slime copy from your opponent ever kill your legend? It's only an image half the time. Made it weird.
As for gameplay, the game will get more interesting. I know with Liliana being more powerful, but they will be making more planeswalker kill spells. Look at Dreadbore, and that was done recently.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Every card people are saying is becoming broken, was already broken. It just makes it more likely that people will run 4 instead of 3. One extra card in a deck will help consistency a little, but that's its.
As far as nerfing cards the same thing goes. It makes some decks now have to deal with the mirror matches differently, but you are still playing the mirror, so it effects both players equally. What is wrong with that.
I am building the Stage/Depths combo only cause I always liked Dark Depths and I have a little better consistency know.
Overall, this is going to effect the format, but only in small ways and I would be really surprised it this created the need for any additional banning.
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This is NOT true.
The proper interaction between Humility and Darksteel Colossus is Darksteel Colossus does not have any abilities, and thus isn't granted being indestructible.
As for Dryad Arbor, first, it now has a color-indicator and no longer has a characteristic-defining ability.
Also, IF it had a characteristic defining ability, the way layering rules work, color-changing effects are applied before ability-adding/ability-removing effects, thus it would still BE green, but it wouldn't have the ability "[This permanent] is green."
Edit: Nor any other abilities.
While Humility is in play, Dryad Arbor does not have any abilities, you can't tap it for mana, and it's still green.
Edit: Not quick enough
In all honestly though, I think the point of something being a legend is truly unique. How can there be say... two of Lebron James on the basketball court at once playing each other? Its dumb.
I remember playing with mana burn, which i think should come back.
RUG
Enchantress
But if Lebron James got Dolly-ed, how can his doppelgänger cause him to explode?
Thanks for spiderboy4 of High~Light_Studios for the kick ass avatar.
Thanks for DarkNightCavalier of HotPS for the exceptional signature.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
You know what else doesn't make sense?
Oozes equipped with Boots, birds carrying five swords, and Avacyn dying to a Tragic Slip down the stairs.
At some point, flavor must die to gameplay.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Flavorfully the decision works for planeswalkers.
Legend Rule
All legends come with a Clone posse. This somehow includes lands (sister cities?). You can summon a legend again to...uh...refresh it.
Walker Rule
You may call on a walker with the same name as one you've already summoned. If you do, that walker pulls out the respective spellbook, resets his/her loyalty to you according to that spellbook, and readies him/herself to cast another spell from the new spellbook.
A walker summoned by 2+ players goes to that player whenever that player's turn comes up. All other players get...uh..."doubles" of that walker when it's not their turn. (Jace's double is an illusion that resembles him. Ironically, the most powerful walkers assign mooks with signs as their "doubles".)
I bet Gaea's cradle gets the axe. It was already bonkers, now it's utterly broken. Watch it rejoin it's brother tolarian academy.
Do you really think Elves will become so much stronger that the dominate the format and warp the meta?
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
And to be honest, I'm not sure how two Jaces being present simultaneously somehow killing both made any more sense.
Oh hi casual legacy player who doesn't understand things. This is a more than awful change. I like how they cater specifically bad rules/card recently. Timmy needs so fun too afterall.
There's this one color, it has a 'u', an 'l', and an 'e', and another letter in it. SNT run's that color... You seem to spout off what cards do, but have absolutely zero knowledge of the meta, or strategy behind the cards. Congratulations, you can read deck lists.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
S&T can no longer run Karakas to kill an enemy Karakas. They also loose if both sides put Emrakul into play.
Angel Of Despair, Oblivion Ring, Terrastadon, Duplicant, Humility, etc, all still hose them as good as ever. I think the only benefit for S&T is a better match vs Merfolk.
Well, the rule change is offensive to Legacy players because it promotes less interactive play and the "no drawbacks" garbage WotC have been pushing to please the newbs. But this won't hurt Legacy (it will change it a little). It's still better than the pre-Kamigawa rule!
As for WotC hating Legacy, maybe this move was made just so they can print Legendary duals (as has been mentioned).
Ilse Of White
Legendary Land - Island Plains
(T: ad U or W to your mana pool).
They couldn't print that before because new players would cry if they had a land die. But if this was indeed their motive I'd say they care about Legacy more than we ever thought. This land (under the new rules) would be a huge boost for budget players - at least psychologically.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Depends on at what point they go off at though. Merfolk are now able to vial in a PI EoT and hose them with whatever legendary they decided to drop. I'd say it's a mix as to whether this ends up being a better matchup.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Now double Jitte interactions is probably the most profound. It can no longer be killed easily which means in a mirror match, someone is going to get counters on theirs. When that person gets Jitte counters, they can mow down whatever the opponent tried to equip their Jitte to; prevent them from ever getting counters.
I suspect Lingering Souls is going to go down in popularity. There is less demand for Jace killers now. Not to mention Lingering Souls are terrible at fighting a Jitte. I personally prefer Baleful Strix instead of Lingering Souls. They make awesome blockers, one of the best. Also they give card advantage. Not much of a threat but I am testing a deck with other planeswalkers to diversify my threats. Maybe a single Entreat the Angels.
As for gameplay, the game will get more interesting. I know with Liliana being more powerful, but they will be making more planeswalker kill spells. Look at Dreadbore, and that was done recently.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
As far as nerfing cards the same thing goes. It makes some decks now have to deal with the mirror matches differently, but you are still playing the mirror, so it effects both players equally. What is wrong with that.
I am building the Stage/Depths combo only cause I always liked Dark Depths and I have a little better consistency know.
Overall, this is going to effect the format, but only in small ways and I would be really surprised it this created the need for any additional banning.