Complain about Legacy Prices & Availability Thread

  • #51
    Quote from sozokureed
    I have no idea what keeps pushing up prices on things like duals, FOW etc since legacy events are so damn rare, and to think back in the day I played all those cards and they were worth five bucks each


    the starcity open tournaments spamming alone drives the legacy staples. ppl clearly know legacy has became this popular mainly cause of them.


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  • #52
    Quote from zero_99
    the starcity open tournaments spamming alone drives the legacy staples. ppl clearly know legacy has became this popular mainly cause of them.


    True but unless you chase them from state to state you only have s small handful of tournaments to go to a year, should you really spend hundreds upon hundreds for like 2 events? If I didn't own most of these cards from being 14 and getting boxes of revised for chrismas it's not worth it unless legacy gets more common IMO, as it is living in Sacramento I have to travel 2 hours once a month to get my legacy fix :/
    Currently Playing
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  • #53
    Quote from owi
    I think you need to do more research before you say completely inaccurate things like this. There's a big difference between a patent (which in this case is probably around core concepts/rules/etc. of a CCG) and copyright which would apply to a ton of stuff on a card (art, text, etc.). Even factoring that out, I don't see how "you can't actually call them fake cards" applies here. The financial value of a lot of cards is determined based upon what WotC deems legal in tournaments. Just because proxies (which would basically be what these are) would be allowed to be printed and sold (again, ignoring copyright), doesn't mean WotC is forced to allow those cards to be legal. Sure, other places could make them legal in their own tournaments, but that's basically the exact same scenario with proxy cards in general even in today's world.



    I already explained all of that so it's not inaccurate and you just agreed with me. I specifically identified that art and such are under the copyright but that has nothing to do with the patent. That means a company could make a card called underground sea with a completely different picture and not have magic the gathering or such written on the back. I also said they could fight for the copyrights on such things if someone did still use the art and such. However, a court doesn't necessarily have to grant them a continuation of the copyright. Patents and such aren't necessarily international so again what I said isn't inaccurate.

    When a Chinese industrial spy takes information back about proprietary materials there's no way to prosecute or stop a Chinese company from making the product. This is even easier when there's no longer a patent. Yes, WotC doesn't have to allow the cards which I noted but I also stated that a separate tournament scene could spring up from this. They aren't proxies because they are actual printed cards they would be unlicensed which is a completely different story. This happened in the 80's and 90's when a separate company was making 8 bit Nintendo games. No matter how you slice it they were Nintendo games and played in the 8 bit Nintendo. They just didn't have the Nintendo seal on them or say Nintendo. You can say it isn't a licensed magic card since it doesn't have there approval but if it's designed the same, has the same function, symbols, size, shape and there's a tournament scene for it, it's a magic card to those who play it and anyone who sees it. The prices of original versions of cards will always be higher no one is debating that. However a flood of brand new reprints at a decreased price would make them less attractive to purchase if a tournament scene as big as SCG sprang up that allowed the cards to be played. Do you really think the have-nots and even some high level players wouldn't jump at an additional tournament scene especially if card availability becomes less of a problem.
    Grats, here is your cookie Cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
  • #54
    Quote from Dyne
    And your right, Legacy does not turn over product like Standard does. They are a business first and foremost, and Standard is what gets the product moving.



    This has been shown to be completely untrue with the printing of legal and supported EDH decks. They will put money behind anything that has enough player support that will make money. If they are willing to support a player created, supported, and rules regulated format they can certainly do more for legacy. I think the biggest thing here is that there is probably a lot more casual EDH players than tournament and casual legacy players combined. Even the non RL cards are so good they they don't want people complaining about the prices of those going down if they reprint them even though this has been proven not to happen with other reprints compared to original prices. I think this is a lame reason to let cards eventually achieve alpha and beta prices. This flies in the face of supporting an eternal format and spreading it around to more players. I really think WotC doesn't want anything to do with any eternal format that has cards from before 2000 as its backbone.

    I strongly believe the idea is to keep printing stronger T2 cards, allow eternal formats to implode due to availability and price and watch people flee to a newly created eternal format that WotC doesn't mind making reprints for. The seems to make more and more sense when you see the push for modern and how SFM, Cheatskull, Mental Misstep, Jace, and Elspeth have crossed over to legacy.

    Someone said something about them not printing lands better than basics. They went against this when they made artifact lands so once again they conveniently did what they wanted and bent their own words when it suited them.

    Don't double post. You've been warned before; infraction issued
    Last edited by Poppeleseed: 6/18/2011 12:25:48 PM
    Grats, here is your cookie Cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
  • #55
    Quote from sozokureed
    True but unless you chase them from state to state you only have s small handful of tournaments to go to a year, should you really spend hundreds upon hundreds for like 2 events? If I didn't own most of these cards from being 14 and getting boxes of revised for chrismas it's not worth it unless legacy gets more common IMO, as it is living in Sacramento I have to travel 2 hours once a month to get my legacy fix :/


    There's a couple local legacy cash/credit tournaments in my area per week. There's been 2 SCG opens this year right next to me, and i'm one of the people who doesn't mind traveling 8-10 hours for an event so if i can get a car load down to NJ, Baltimore, Philly, or any other areas along the north east i can probably make at least a half dozen events per year. There's also at least one GP in north america a year and i would gladly fly to it if/when affordable, so the cost to buy the cards is okay for someone like me as it gives me these opportunities as well. It's not like vintage where i may use the cards once a year.
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  • #56
    Quote from sozokureed
    I have no idea what keeps pushing up prices on things like duals, FOW etc since legacy events are so damn rare, and to think back in the day I played all those cards and they were worth five bucks each


    I remember back in 96 or 97 Hammer's Comics (one of my local gameshops) had a stack of duals about 4 inches high sitting on the counter.
    5 - 8 bucks each. Not the best condition, but to think those same 6 to 8 dollar Underground Seas go for well over a hundred now boggles the mind. I had 4 of each dual, more than one playset of some, and really thought nothing of it. FoW's were everywhere, worth nothing really. Wastelands were a 50 cent uncommon. Back when Tempest first came out I wouldn't accept 15 Wastelands in trade for my Tradewind Rider or Cuirsed Scroll had they been offered... I quit the game in 98 (only to get back into last year) and to think, if I had only kept my cards.... the amount of money that ****'d be worth blows my mind.

    Makes no sense.

    If I started playing now as a 14 or 15 year old kid like I was back then I'd never be able to do it. Not a chance, just too expensive. Cursed Scroll was considered an expensive Type II card and it was about 15 bucks.

    Hammer still owes me 40 bucks in store credit. If only his shop still existed, awesome friggin' place.
  • #57
    Quote from Stinky-Dinkins
    If I started playing now as a 14 or 15 year old kid like I was back then I'd never be able to do it. Not a chance, just too expensive. Cursed Scroll was considered an expensive Type II card and it was about 15 bucks.


    You basically got me caught dead on right there. Started as a kid but left the game at age 7. Turned out I had nothing good, and basically started out anew at age 17 with no job. It's hard dropping half my paycheck just to get a dual or two so I can play the decks I want to. I love the game, but it has turned into more of a stock market than a game as of recent, which is especially disheartening in this economy Frown
    Current Decks:

    Standard:
    :symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)

    Legacy:
    :symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
    :symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
    :symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick

    Commander:
    :symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
  • #58
    Quote from Kaos
    I already explained all of that so it's not inaccurate and you just agreed with me. I specifically identified that art and such are under the copyright but that has nothing to do with the patent. That means a company could make a card called underground sea with a completely different picture and not have magic the gathering or such written on the back. I also said they could fight for the copyrights on such things if someone did still use the art and such. However, a court doesn't necessarily have to grant them a continuation of the copyright. Patents and such aren't necessarily international so again what I said isn't inaccurate.

    When a Chinese industrial spy takes information back about proprietary materials there's no way to prosecute or stop a Chinese company from making the product. This is even easier when there's no longer a patent. Yes, WotC doesn't have to allow the cards which I noted but I also stated that a separate tournament scene could spring up from this. They aren't proxies because they are actual printed cards they would be unlicensed which is a completely different story. This happened in the 80's and 90's when a separate company was making 8 bit Nintendo games. No matter how you slice it they were Nintendo games and played in the 8 bit Nintendo. They just didn't have the Nintendo seal on them or say Nintendo. You can say it isn't a licensed magic card since it doesn't have there approval but if it's designed the same, has the same function, symbols, size, shape and there's a tournament scene for it, it's a magic card to those who play it and anyone who sees it. The prices of original versions of cards will always be higher no one is debating that. However a flood of brand new reprints at a decreased price would make them less attractive to purchase if a tournament scene as big as SCG sprang up that allowed the cards to be played. Do you really think the have-nots and even some high level players wouldn't jump at an additional tournament scene especially if card availability becomes less of a problem.


    My point is basically regardless of the patent being around or not, there's not really any difference between your conjectured Chinese cards and the proxies/fakes that are around today. If the patent expired, the only difference would be that they would be in violation of only copyright and not a patent. I realize that patents and copyrights aren't universally international, and that's why there already exists Magic fakes/knock-offs (Chinese, even!). I don't think these have any real impact, especially on the legit card prices, and I don't think the patent expiring impacts that at all.

    The patent WotC has is on the CCG system. It means that other similar games/CCGs must get permission from WotC to print their product which generally means getting a license. A license to use the system the patent outlines does not mean you get to reprint Magic cards (which are protected via copyright). All the patent expiration means is that some company could create a game similar to magic (its rules system, collectible aspect, etc.) and not have to get a license from WotC. It does not mean they actually get to freely reprint underground seas, which has numerous copyright-able aspects (card art, card frame art, name, text/rules, etc.).

    Your argument about copyright not holding up in court is silly. That's like saying bootleggers could be free to print fake copies of DVDs because a court might not hold the copyright up. I'm not entirely sure if that's even possible since I'm confident printing replicas of something for profit don't fall under fair use. Maybe there's a small chance some crazy court decided to just throw copyright law out the window and let someone steal from WotC, but that seems so unlikely that it's just silly to consider. Why would a court not maintain WotC's copyright? That's just like saying, yeah, murder's illegal, but a court might let someone get away with it... so yeah, it's fine.
  • #59
    The patent never protected MTG cards specifically, only:

    Games published in the form of trading cards.
    * Games in which a player selects a collection of tradeable elements
    and uses that set to compete with other players.
    * Certain aspects of gameplay originally developed for Magic: The Gathering,
    such as "tapping" a card to indicate it is temporarily depleted.

    So basically it prevents companies from mass producing games that use vaguely similar mechanics to what MTG cards use. It was this basis Wizards used to sue the makers of Pokemon cards. Basically it grants Wizards the right to charge royalty fees on creators of "collectible card games."

    All MTG specific things, symbols, layout, etc. will all still be firmly covered by copyright and no company will have anymore legal ground to create fakes after the patent expires than they did before, at all. It will have no impact on MTG specifically whatsoever, only on the royalty fees Wizards receives from other companies creating new, separate TCG's. It would have no more impact on MTG than some local kid writing "Black Lotus" in Sharpie on his Mountain and using it in casual play as a Lotus. They would have no more legal right to print "counterfeit" MTG cards than they did before the expiration. If this is the argument, that's like saying your ability to print a fake proxy from your printer would have a huge impact on the price of MTG cards.
    Last edited by Stinky-Dinkins: 6/18/2011 12:26:24 PM
  • #60
    There is no such thing as an "international copyright" that will automatically protect an author's works in countries around the world. Instead, copyright protection is “territorial” in nature, which means that copyright protection depends on the national laws where protection is sought.


    This is straight from the U.S. patent office. They can't be in violation of a copyright since there isn't a law formally stopping them in the country of origin. With that in mind the game mechanics would now be open since the patent is over in 2015. I didn't express it clear enough that the court wouldn't uphold the copyright because they can't since they don't have jurisdiction. They can do a token gesture and say it but it would have no effect. With the patent gone you don't think a foreign company couldn't commission cards to be made of the same exact card stock and printing process? I'm not saying this will definitely happen. All I was saying is that this could definitely be a much more real possibility with game popularity and card prices at the highest we've ever seen.
    Grats, here is your cookie Cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
  • #61
    I'd feel bad using fake cards, but if they sold them cheap enough and they passed all the tests of the the originals, I'd buy them. Costs as much as a new computer to make a deck now, which isn't sitting well with me.
    Current Decks:

    Standard:
    :symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)

    Legacy:
    :symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
    :symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
    :symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick

    Commander:
    :symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
  • #62
    Quote from Kaos
    There is no such thing as an "international copyright" that will automatically protect an author's works in countries around the world. Instead, copyright protection is “territorial” in nature, which means that copyright protection depends on the national laws where protection is sought.


    This is straight from the U.S. patent office. They can't be in violation of a copyright since there isn't a law formally stopping them in the country of origin. With that in mind the game mechanics would now be open since the patent is over in 2015. I didn't express it clear enough that the court wouldn't uphold the copyright because they can't since they don't have jurisdiction. They can do a token gesture and say it but it would have no effect. With the patent gone you don't think a foreign company couldn't commission cards to be made of the same exact card stock and printing process? I'm not saying this will definitely happen. All I was saying is that this could definitely be a much more real possibility with game popularity and card prices at the highest we've ever seen.


    But this isn't any different from the situation today. Replicas could be printed in China or elsewhere today and you're right, the USA couldn't stop them due to US copyright laws (it would prevent them from being sold en-masse in the US, however). If you're saying US copyright laws won't stop international duplicates, then why is a US patent doing so today? That doesn't make any sense. Both patents and copyright are territorial. If you're voiding copyright mattering because it's territorial, then that applies to patents too. The patent expiring isn't going to have any impact on prices of cards in the US, at least not due to causing replica cards being printed more heavily.

    I'm sure on a small scale, people could get fake cards into the US (they do so today, even), and I doubt anyone is going to care enough to stop it when it's at a small scale. This is similar to people going to China and buying bootleg DVDs. Anyways, I don't see any large scale tournament allowing these cards since both WotC and SCG, and probably any future company running large tournaments has a vested interest in the products they make/sell, not being an outlet for knock-offs (regardless of how closely they resemble the originals). Plus, no one could mass sell the knock-offs in the US without facing legal consequences.
  • #63
    Exactly, it has no more effect than one's ability to already make their own proxies from their own printer. It's not like that generic patent expiration is going to encourage someone in China who isn't already counterfeiting Magic cards to start doing it - that makes no sense. If they're counterfeiting Magic cards it's for the purpose of selling them at the price of legit Magic cards, that is how they make money (and they already do this, there are fakes out there.) They try to make fakes, pass them off as the real deal, and sell worthless pieces of cardboard at legit black lotus/dual prices.... not making generic proxies. If I'm going to play proxies and am playing in a tourny that allows them why would I buy them from China (or anywhere else) like you mentioned here when I can make them myself for free?

    And there ARE such things as international copyrights, through agreements and treaties with countries the US trades with. You just copied the first portion of the paragraph on the US gov site and omitted the rest:

    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl100.html
    Last edited by Stinky-Dinkins: 6/20/2011 6:46:40 PM
  • #64
    I read the rest but it wasn't material to the point I was making. Yes I'm aware people could do it now based on the whole border situation with regards to patents and such. However, the patent being gone could give a potential company within its own borders some measure of credibility not to mention it could push WotC to actually license the product for fear of a greater flood of cards since the game mechanics and such can't be litigated. There is a large glut of bootleg stuff sold right here in the U.S. under the noses of licensees without repercussions happening to most dealers and producers. Underground operations are named such for a reason and are hard to stop. We have people who counterfeit money on a large scale and never get caught. (A lot of counterfeit money comes from Asia) People will skirt the system regardless but there's a difference when penalties are higher and lower with regards to managing risk and rate of return. If people know they can commit crimes but the punishment aren't very stringent they'll be more willing to commit the crimes than if the penalties are much stiffer.

    Again, all I'm saying is with 1 more legal impediment down more may be convinced to do it than before. I never said it wasn't possible now or currently happening. In any case, I don't think this will happen on a large scale after 2015. I like to discuss possibilities and how they may play out. Regardless, I believe WotC/Hasbro will most likely do some sort of licensing of production and testing since they seem unable to do everything they need to do efficiently and thoroughly because of time constraints. This often leads to improper bans and overly synergistic cards i.e. SFM and Cheatskull.
    Grats, here is your cookie Cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
  • #65
    Yeah, there's definitely a market for fake cards, but I would guess they'd be limited to casual play only since I don't ever see a large scale tournament sanctioning cards printed outside of WotC at the same level as official ones. I could see the fakes being used as proxies in tournaments where those are allowed (even though I'm not sure of the legal implications of that)... but I think we've seen those actually have a negative impact on the turnout. Not sure how accurate they are, but I've seen articles that say proxies had a negative impact on vintage tournaments. *shrug*

    I don't mean to be contrarian, but it is fun to discuss... I doubt WotC would ever let a third party create official/licensed Magic cards. It just doesn't seem likely they would ever give up control of the product like that. A lot of the value placed on the cards, game, etc. is because people have trust in WotC and outside of a few bans here and there, they generally do a pretty good job IMO. Perhaps they may let a trusted partner do something like an Unset or another "add-on" type game but I can't see them risking their image by letting third parties create cards that would impact their tournaments, etc. It is an interesting idea to think about though.
  • #66
    Quote from owi
    Yeah, there's definitely a market for fake cards, but I would guess they'd be limited to casual play only since I don't ever see a large scale tournament sanctioning cards printed outside of WotC at the same level as official ones. I could see the fakes being used as proxies in tournaments where those are allowed (even though I'm not sure of the legal implications of that)... but I think we've seen those actually have a negative impact on the turnout. Not sure how accurate they are, but I've seen articles that say proxies had a negative impact on vintage tournaments. *shrug*

    I don't mean to be contrarian, but it is fun to discuss... I doubt WotC would ever let a third party create official/licensed Magic cards. It just doesn't seem likely they would ever give up control of the product like that. A lot of the value placed on the cards, game, etc. is because people have trust in WotC and outside of a few bans here and there, they generally do a pretty good job IMO. Perhaps they may let a trusted partner do something like an Unset or another "add-on" type game but I can't see them risking their image by letting third parties create cards that would impact their tournaments, etc. It is an interesting idea to think about though.


    I love being the devil's advocate or his persecutor but I can't enjoy it if no one wants to be on the other side of the discussion. The copyrights run out 70 years after the author's death so long after we aren't around to play magic they won't have a choice. That's provided the game even still exists then lol. Since proxies are mostly in small unsanctioned tournaments, WotC really hasn't said anything because they won't reprint the cards and there isn't any other way for most people to play that format because of price and scarcity. Price is the most offensive problem. Legacy long term could easily end up the same way.

    Not to far in the past a Vintage deck cost what a legacy deck costs now. It's not a far stretch to imagine legacy going up over time like that as well. Even a 5% increase a year for format defining cards over the course of 5 years would lead to mostly played condition FOW's going for $75 at a minimum and M/NM copies going for $100. That's not even taking into account player growth which increases demand, copies being taken off the market long term because of speculators, collectors, being lost or destroyed, and current players not selling them.

    You could easily see both sitting well above those numbers if WotC were to stay inactive and popularity continues to rise in the next 5 year period. This obviously puts duals in the stratosphere as far as prices go. Keep in mind, we did see FOW go over a $100 a month ago. That doesn't bode well for prices 5 years from now since even SCG says they were getting 5% increases every few months going back to last year. (don't quote me on that but I recall someone from their camp stating a statistic to that effect on another site)

    As much as I don't want to part with my rishadan port, my extra maze of ith, 2 mox diamonds, some of the components of my enchantress deck, and 3 metalworkers, my options are limited. Sad thing is even trading or selling all of that could only get a playset of FOWS and maybe have enough left over for 2 wastelands. 6 cards total more than all of those put together. That's rancid.:mad: The prices have just become insane right now for anyone trying to get in and unfortunately just going the dredge route isn't going to cut all the time anymore. I can't even play my affinity deck right now because it's MU's are terrible right now.
    Last edited by Kaos: 6/22/2011 4:15:22 PM
    Grats, here is your cookie Cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
  • #67
    I'm gonna go ahead and complain about the Reserved List. It's simply a bad idea, on all levels.

    1.) Prices! It drives up the cost on staples, because they NEVER print more! It's a good card, that is often wanted, that exists in a limited quantity.
    2.) Collecting. So wait...they try to maintain the value of that card for a collector...by making it harder for the collector to get it, and by not printing alternate versions of a coveted card? Wouldn't printing a more accessible From The Vaults version both make the Original more coveted from a collectors standpoint, and lower the price for people who want to, you know, play the game?
    3.) Wizards, stop ignoring the elephant in the room. We know you're greedy capitalist cash-mongers. You're in it for the money. So you know what you SHOULD do? Print a FTV box with legacy staples. If it costs the usual 20-30 bucks, it will STILL be cheaper for players to buy the box most likely (even if it's 1 card in each color, with an artifact. It will almost certainly make up for it if those cards see any competitive play). It'll be more friendly for people looking to enter the format (by lowering the price and increasing the quantity in existence), be a nice thing for Collectors to have, and will put WAY more money directly in your pocket.

    Legacy, in terms of price, is a weird format. Standard is generally in the "Cheapish" range of 200-350 range, with higher priced decks being mythic rare sausage fests. Vintage...well, it outprices even the upper-middle class. Legacy jumps between the "OHMYGODREALY?" of $1500 decks, and the "Oh wow." of $150-$250 some. And yes, I am flatly talking about the jump from The Rock/Team America to Dredge/Burn/Affinity.

    (EDIT: As a couple people said before, MTG Paper "Masters Set" would sell...well, I would say hotcakes, but it wouldn't be accurate. Like free bread in Soviet-Era Russia? Like cheap condoms in ancient Rome? Mildly better than Bibles?)
    Last edited by Zelderex: 7/22/2011 2:36:40 AM


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  • #68
    I don't consider it impossible that the format dies at some point. When no 15-20 year old person will be able to play this game (in this case this format) any more, it will die out. Note that I'm not talking about myself here, it just honestly makes me sad if I crush a 16 year old boy at a tournament and he, staring sadly at Tarmogoyfs, FoWs and whatnot, tells me he would like to play a better deck than Burn, but his pocket money just isn't enough. If you don't have a job yet, you can't play Legacy. That is, at least in my eyes, sad.

    Not sure what they could do about this though. I guess they could forget the reprint policy, but I doubt that'll ever happen.
    "Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today, and it won't be you."

    - Last Word


  • #69
    Reserved list hurting Legacy--even if they took the list down, what guarantee is there anything would be reprinted? There are loads of cards, staples, which are not on the list, and they haven't seen a reprint to this day. Sinkhole, Force of Will, Wasteland, Natural Order, Pernicious Deed, Vindicate, Tarmogoyf, the list goes far on--these cards are not on the reserved list, and they haven't been reprinted (Judge promos and FTVs don't count because they don't help /at all/).

    And I'm baffled by set availability on MTGO. They only sell Standard-legal boosters in the official store. I don't know what kind of policy that is, but it's utterly ridiculous.

    It's as if they prefer to have the secondary market (for both paper and online MTG) as it is now.
  • #70
    Has anyone started a petition for the Reserved List? If not, can we as a forum / site? I always have said I wanted a petition to remove the Reserved list, but don't have the know-how to get the ball rolling. Anyone willing to collaborate on one?
    Current Decks:

    Standard:
    :symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)

    Legacy:
    :symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
    :symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
    :symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick

    Commander:
    :symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
  • #71
    Quote from Dragon23
    Has anyone started a petition for the Reserved List? If not, can we as a forum / site? I always have said I wanted a petition to remove the Reserved list, but don't have the know-how to get the ball rolling. Anyone willing to collaborate on one?


    You haven't seen all the useless "I'm petitioning for X/Y/Z" signatures inundating these forums?
  • #72
    No, I mean a physical or web-based petition, not just someone getting mad in their sigs. I mean a real petition with enough volume to actually mean something.
    Current Decks:

    Standard:
    :symr:/:symg: Valakut 2.0 (Wolf Run Green)

    Legacy:
    :symr:/:symb: Vial Goblins
    :symr:/:symg:/:symw: Zoo
    :symg:/:symw:/:symr: Maverick

    Commander:
    :symg:/:symb:/:symw: Karador, Ghost Chieftain
  • #73
    Does anyone else LIKE the higher cost of legacy cards? Not gonna lie, I kinda enjoy that there is a price barrier to the format because I feel like it pairs me up with other people that I am more likely to enjoy socializing with. I mostly stopped going to type 2 and FNM events because half the crowd would be either lacking hygiene or young and often rude. However at legacy tournaments that subsection of players is much less present in my area. The other players tend to be responsible people with careers that still enjoy the hobby. They take the game seriously (cause who wants to spend $2000 to troll) but still have fun and understand sportsmanlike conduct.

    Sorry if I sound really elite in this post. It isn't that I don't want the format to grow, but I do like that the price range of it tends to promote a more "adult" community.
  • #74
    Quote from dougyfresh
    Does anyone else LIKE the higher cost of legacy cards? Not gonna lie, I kinda enjoy that there is a price barrier to the format because I feel like it pairs me up with other people that I am more likely to enjoy socializing with. I mostly stopped going to type 2 and FNM events because half the crowd would be either lacking hygiene or young and often rude. However at legacy tournaments that subsection of players is much less present in my area. The other players tend to be responsible people with careers that still enjoy the hobby. They take the game seriously (cause who wants to spend $2000 to troll) but still have fun and understand sportsmanlike conduct.

    Sorry if I sound really elite in this post. It isn't that I don't want the format to grow, but I do like that the price range of it tends to promote a more "adult" community.


    I don't like the higher cost of entry, but I do like the Legacy crowd much better, and I am sure that this is shaped somewhat by the high cost of Legacy cards.
  • #75
    Legacy players are far less likely to steal stuff too.
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