You may wish to consider UR delver. Mana base and FoW is where your money will go and you can cut corners with the mana if needed there. From there you can move into RUG delver later to
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Thank you for your response. I thought about Death & Taxes, but I was also told that under no circumstances should I invest significantly in a deck that does not run brainstorm. Is this correct, or is Death & Taxes an ok deck to build and become an expert at? Is it foreseeable that the metagame will shift such that Death & Taxes is unplayable?
Also, I've looked at the U/R Delver deck and it looks pretty sweet. Does it, however, have the ability to play control or is it all in on killing them fast with burn and 1 drop dudes?
Thank you for your response. I thought about Death & Taxes, but I was also told that under no circumstances should I invest significantly in a deck that does not run brainstorm. Is this correct, or is Death & Taxes an ok deck to build and become an expert at? Is it foreseeable that the metagame will shift such that Death & Taxes is unplayable?
Also, I've looked at the U/R Delver deck and it looks pretty sweet. Does it, however, have the ability to play control or is it all in on killing them fast with burn and 1 drop dudes?
The part about brainstorm is not true at all.
Death and Taxes has been a decent deck since Aether Vial was a card, and has been one of the best decks in the format for the past year or so. It's definitely a solid deck, and not going anywhere anytime soon. Wizards does not support legacy much, but they do seem to make a new D&T playable card every in almost every set. Death and Taxes is also a pretty hard deck to play; it has a lot tricks that require an extensive knowledge of the rules and more so, an excellent knowledge of the format. However, even if budget was not a concern, I would be suggesting Death and Taxes to you.
UR delver is a good choice too. It usually takes the aggro role, but in the combo matchup or against a faster aggro deck, it has to be the control role. And it does it ok, its really more of a tempo deck in that situation though. You'd need FoW, 2-4 Volcanic island and some fetches. From UR Delver you could start getting the stuff for UWR delverblade which sounds kind of like where you want to end up.
i believe that legacy is wwwwwaaaayyyy too expensive and if you want some fun you should just play modern because it is not as expensive and i think it is more fun.
i believe that legacy is wwwwwaaaayyyy too expensive and if you want some fun you should just play modern because it is not as expensive and i think it is more fun.
Then you should turn your attention to posting on the modern forums and leave the legacy forums alone. These posts contribute absolutely nothing.
On topic, UR Delver has the ability to shift a bit between being a more controlling deck against combo and an aggressive deck otherwise. It runs a big damage suite of cards and enough counters to keep the tempo in their favor. It's a powerful deck (I own it) and a lot of fun. Like Weapon X said, you can counter corners with the cost with your landbase, starting with a few duals and working towards more eventually. Often, if you run something like Price of Progress or play against a lot of Wasteland decks, you'll be fetching out basic lands anyways (:
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Thanks guys. I think I'm going to build UR Delver on MWS and do some testing. If I like it, I'll put it together. It builds me towards UWR Delver and RUG Delver if I want to play one of those, and it seems to fit my interests. Also, it gives me the fetch lands to build Twin in Modern, which is something else I'm interested in.
i believe that legacy is wwwwwaaaayyyy too expensive and if you want some fun you should just play modern because it is not as expensive and i think it is more fun.
With your eloquence, I agree that you're perfect for Modern.
Taking troll bait by trolling back is still trolling. Warning issued.
- Teia
Both play vial, so mana base is a moot point. TNN is really just win more in merfolk.
You don't start every game with Aether Vial in your starting hand so... I think that mana base still matters?
And I'm not sure it is win more since there is a rise in midrange/tempo/aggro decks and TNN answers cards like Tarmogoyf/D&T/etc quite well (But all this is just personal opinion since Merfolk is played more often thus gets higher placements in tournaments even though I personally think Merfolk is the superior deck - and I own both decks).
Adding to this, I just tried my Merfolk deck and noticed that the main difference between Merfolk and Slivers is SHROUD and CARD ADVANTAGE.
- Slivers card advantage is basically every sliver is a lord that grants all slivers effects, so it's like tagging an extra spell on each spell you cast, such as Harmonic Sliver. Basically it has no card advantage in drawing cards. It has to add Standstill to draw cards. Also casting multiple slivers of the same name (other than +1/+1 lords) is usually a waste. They do have the advantage of maindeck shroud and with M15, the new sliver that gives semi-shroud, so you can possibly have 8 shroud lords in a sliver deck.
- Merfolk card advantage replaces itself. It can, in some lists, run up to 12 cards that replace themselves on use. Merfolk can also grab shroud, but most lists do not maindeck it, because the shroud creature is legendary and is only semi-shroud, so running more then 2 in a list is not efficient.
So basically on those assumptions of how each deck is essentially different, what is better? I still am interested in Slivers, but Merfolk seems good too. I know I can build both, but I want to know which I should play.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
So basically on those assumptions of how each deck is essentially different, what is better? I still am interested in Slivers, but Merfolk seems good too. I know I can build both, but I want to know which I should play.
Slivers are cool and everything, but they are really just worse merfolk.
Slivers gives you actual removal like swords to plowshares, harmonic and shroud sliver. Thats really the only advantages.
Merfolk, your lords give you +1/+1 AND unblockable (against most decks), every card in your deck pitches to FoW. You get Silvergill adept (the best card in both slivers and merfolk), your lands are wasteland/stifle proof instead of being able to run only non-basics and fetches.
So basically on those assumptions of how each deck is essentially different, what is better? I still am interested in Slivers, but Merfolk seems good too. I know I can build both, but I want to know which I should play.
Slivers are cool and everything, but they are really just worse merfolk.
Slivers gives you actual removal like swords to plowshares, harmonic and shroud sliver. Thats really the only advantages.
Merfolk, your lords give you +1/+1 AND unblockable (against most decks), every card in your deck pitches to FoW. You get Silvergill adept (the best card in both slivers and merfolk), your lands are wasteland/stifle proof instead of being able to run only non-basics and fetches.
You also get 6-8x TNN, which is insane. I agree, if you want Slivers just go Merfolks instead.
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That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
So basically on those assumptions of how each deck is essentially different, what is better? I still am interested in Slivers, but Merfolk seems good too. I know I can build both, but I want to know which I should play.
Slivers are cool and everything, but they are really just worse merfolk.
Slivers gives you actual removal like swords to plowshares, harmonic and shroud sliver. Thats really the only advantages.
Merfolk, your lords give you +1/+1 AND unblockable (against most decks), every card in your deck pitches to FoW. You get Silvergill adept (the best card in both slivers and merfolk), your lands are wasteland/stifle proof instead of being able to run only non-basics and fetches.
You also get 6-8x TNN, which is insane. I agree, if you want Slivers just go Merfolks instead.
I forgot the Image can copy TNN. Alright, Merfolk definitely better. Think I'll still make slivers as well for table-top games.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Slivers is a fun deck, but as many others have said merfolk is just strictly superior. Sure Crystalline gives shroud, but multiples do nothing. Sure Galerider gives evasion, but only evasion and multiples do nothing. The lords in Merfolk give boost as well as evasion most of the time. Multiples stack. Win win.
Okay, not too long ago I traded for an entire Sneak & Show deck, talking unlimited Volcanic Islands, Forces and every other expensive card. I adore the deck but I am in fear that Wizards will ban Show and Tell eventually and will cut the deck out of the format completely so I want to trade the deck for a deck I can enjoy, afford and will have no fear of bans in the future.
I love combo and control both, not the biggest fan of aggro but can tolerate some of it. I am looking for a deck I can trade for with the worth of a Sneak and Show deck or less, preferably a blue deck to keep the forces but doesn't have to be necessary.
Also would prefer a deck that is good and tournament worthy, something that can put constant results. Thanks for the help guys.
The only combo control decks that I can think of are:
1. High Tide
2. Painter
3. Loosely Reanimator (although it just runs control to protect the combo - similar to Show and Tell, but it also runs Show and Tell so.... not much there).
4. Miracles with Helm combo (more expensive)
5. Thopter Sword (Depends on the decklist, but it's only loosely combo, it's more attrition grindy 'combo')
6. Lands w/ Dark Depths (more expensive than Show and Tell).
Honestly though, I doubt that Show and Tell will be banned. It's not a dominating factor, it's only 6% of top placing decks in tournaments. It's strong, but not overwhelming. I'm not sure I see it ever being banned based on current circumstances. I would personally keep the deck and keep playing it.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I'd recommend GB nic fit. Junk is a goodstuff deck; it's only good because it's a pole of good cards. Making budget cuts severely lowers the decks power.
Merfolk is fine too. If you are just playing casually you could get away with less than 4 FoW and wastelands. It would be noticeable in a tournament though.
Thank you for your response. I thought about Death & Taxes, but I was also told that under no circumstances should I invest significantly in a deck that does not run brainstorm. Is this correct, or is Death & Taxes an ok deck to build and become an expert at? Is it foreseeable that the metagame will shift such that Death & Taxes is unplayable?
This part about Brainstorm is pretty much totally true, but DnT falls right into the space of that "pretty much." It's likely to get better, as more and more hate bears see print. None of the decks that DnT feeds on are going away: they are pillars of the format. The other decks without BS that can be invested in fairly safely are Elves, Lands, Merfolk, and Jund. Maverick and Junk maybe, but you're going to have to face up to a lack of tournament results with those decks. Elves is a little risky, as Cradles are really only played in Legacy and represent a huge chunk of value.
Getting back to the part about Brainstorm being necessary, obviously you'll get a lot of opinions on this, but I find it frustrating to play against Brainstorm decks in an unequal footing for years on end. I have played a lot of non-brainstorm stuff before finally learning to love the bomb.
So I haven't yet pulled the trigger on the deck and I've been looking around some more. What do you all think about Omni-Tell? I've seen it play online and it looks like an exciting deck that I could learn how to pilot. One worry is that Show & Tell will be banned making the deck (and my investment) worthless. Is that a real fear? Also, is this deck any good?
Show and tell probably won't get banned any time soon, this isn't modern after all. The deck is no where near dominating and I have a hard time thinking they could print something better than griselbrand to make S&T even more busted. Also, even if they did ban S&T, or for some reason the card became bad, your investment would lose little to no value. Basically just the show and tells value would drop. All the other valuable cards in the deck would retain their price and could easily be used in another deck, or traded away for equal value.
So I haven't yet pulled the trigger on the deck and I've been looking around some more. What do you all think about Omni-Tell? I've seen it play online and it looks like an exciting deck that I could learn how to pilot. One worry is that Show & Tell will be banned making the deck (and my investment) worthless. Is that a real fear? Also, is this deck any good?
I play it myself, and I think it's the bomb. Would have made top 8 in SCG Worcester had not Erik Smith put a stop to my 6-1 rampage in a feature match. The deck does have weaknesses, and it's somewhat controversial. Some think it's weird and a bit bad. At least one is shielded from the usual "SnT is too easy" charges that unfairly get tossed around.
Give it a go and don't worry about a ban. SnT isn't oppressive at all.
Hi, I'm trying to get some advice on what to learn towards in the current competitive legacy meta. I haven't played competitive legacy for awhile, about 6 months. Prior to that I was piloting mainly Punishing jund, and it is my go to favorite. However it seems to have fallen out of favor recently.
I was also looking at possibly building sneak and show, but again my knowledge of the current competitive meta is a little lacking since I have been out of it for as long as I have. I've noticed burn actually becoming a thing, is this true and how viable is it these days?
So is Punishing jund still a viable choice in the current meta? Or is it too unfavorable at this point in time? Thanks for your input.
Honestly if you pick a random deck a simply stick with it you'll do fine. A big part is learning your deck and your opponents so that you know how to beat it. The sideboard helps with the holes in your deck, or bad matchups if you prefer. The other thing to remember is that legacy is in constant flow so while burn may be good today, it could easily be sneak and show tomorrow, and then death and taxes after that.
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Hello, everyone. I have a quick question for anyone who wants to answer and I think this post would be the best place for it. I have a legacy tourney coming up next weekend and I'm torn on what to play. I am trying to decide between Shardless Bug, Sneak and Show, or Lands. All decks are complete so I don't have to worry about looking for cards. The expected meta will be lots of Dredge and Burn, with the rest mostly homebrew decks. What would your opinion be on which deck would be the best to run against a meta like this? Lands does very good against Dredge, with maindeck Bojuka Bog, but has a much harder time against burn than either of the two other decks. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Also, I've looked at the U/R Delver deck and it looks pretty sweet. Does it, however, have the ability to play control or is it all in on killing them fast with burn and 1 drop dudes?
The part about brainstorm is not true at all.
Death and Taxes has been a decent deck since Aether Vial was a card, and has been one of the best decks in the format for the past year or so. It's definitely a solid deck, and not going anywhere anytime soon. Wizards does not support legacy much, but they do seem to make a new D&T playable card every in almost every set. Death and Taxes is also a pretty hard deck to play; it has a lot tricks that require an extensive knowledge of the rules and more so, an excellent knowledge of the format. However, even if budget was not a concern, I would be suggesting Death and Taxes to you.
UR delver is a good choice too. It usually takes the aggro role, but in the combo matchup or against a faster aggro deck, it has to be the control role. And it does it ok, its really more of a tempo deck in that situation though. You'd need FoW, 2-4 Volcanic island and some fetches. From UR Delver you could start getting the stuff for UWR delverblade which sounds kind of like where you want to end up.
Warning issued for format trolling.
- Teia
Then you should turn your attention to posting on the modern forums and leave the legacy forums alone. These posts contribute absolutely nothing.
On topic, UR Delver has the ability to shift a bit between being a more controlling deck against combo and an aggressive deck otherwise. It runs a big damage suite of cards and enough counters to keep the tempo in their favor. It's a powerful deck (I own it) and a lot of fun. Like Weapon X said, you can counter corners with the cost with your landbase, starting with a few duals and working towards more eventually. Often, if you run something like Price of Progress or play against a lot of Wasteland decks, you'll be fetching out basic lands anyways (:
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
With your eloquence, I agree that you're perfect for Modern.
Taking troll bait by trolling back is still trolling. Warning issued.
- Teia
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Adding to this, I just tried my Merfolk deck and noticed that the main difference between Merfolk and Slivers is SHROUD and CARD ADVANTAGE.
- Slivers card advantage is basically every sliver is a lord that grants all slivers effects, so it's like tagging an extra spell on each spell you cast, such as Harmonic Sliver. Basically it has no card advantage in drawing cards. It has to add Standstill to draw cards. Also casting multiple slivers of the same name (other than +1/+1 lords) is usually a waste. They do have the advantage of maindeck shroud and with M15, the new sliver that gives semi-shroud, so you can possibly have 8 shroud lords in a sliver deck.
- Merfolk card advantage replaces itself. It can, in some lists, run up to 12 cards that replace themselves on use. Merfolk can also grab shroud, but most lists do not maindeck it, because the shroud creature is legendary and is only semi-shroud, so running more then 2 in a list is not efficient.
So basically on those assumptions of how each deck is essentially different, what is better? I still am interested in Slivers, but Merfolk seems good too. I know I can build both, but I want to know which I should play.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Slivers are cool and everything, but they are really just worse merfolk.
Slivers gives you actual removal like swords to plowshares, harmonic and shroud sliver. Thats really the only advantages.
Merfolk, your lords give you +1/+1 AND unblockable (against most decks), every card in your deck pitches to FoW. You get Silvergill adept (the best card in both slivers and merfolk), your lands are wasteland/stifle proof instead of being able to run only non-basics and fetches.
You also get 6-8x TNN, which is insane. I agree, if you want Slivers just go Merfolks instead.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I forgot the Image can copy TNN. Alright, Merfolk definitely better. Think I'll still make slivers as well for table-top games.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Cursecatcher is also phenomenal in many matchups.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I love combo and control both, not the biggest fan of aggro but can tolerate some of it. I am looking for a deck I can trade for with the worth of a Sneak and Show deck or less, preferably a blue deck to keep the forces but doesn't have to be necessary.
Also would prefer a deck that is good and tournament worthy, something that can put constant results. Thanks for the help guys.
1. High Tide
2. Painter
3. Loosely Reanimator (although it just runs control to protect the combo - similar to Show and Tell, but it also runs Show and Tell so.... not much there).
4. Miracles with Helm combo (more expensive)
5. Thopter Sword (Depends on the decklist, but it's only loosely combo, it's more attrition grindy 'combo')
6. Lands w/ Dark Depths (more expensive than Show and Tell).
Honestly though, I doubt that Show and Tell will be banned. It's not a dominating factor, it's only 6% of top placing decks in tournaments. It's strong, but not overwhelming. I'm not sure I see it ever being banned based on current circumstances. I would personally keep the deck and keep playing it.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I saw this deck tech and it looks like a blast to play, while being only $300. Good idea?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Merfolk is fine too. If you are just playing casually you could get away with less than 4 FoW and wastelands. It would be noticeable in a tournament though.
This part about Brainstorm is pretty much totally true, but DnT falls right into the space of that "pretty much." It's likely to get better, as more and more hate bears see print. None of the decks that DnT feeds on are going away: they are pillars of the format. The other decks without BS that can be invested in fairly safely are Elves, Lands, Merfolk, and Jund. Maverick and Junk maybe, but you're going to have to face up to a lack of tournament results with those decks. Elves is a little risky, as Cradles are really only played in Legacy and represent a huge chunk of value.
Getting back to the part about Brainstorm being necessary, obviously you'll get a lot of opinions on this, but I find it frustrating to play against Brainstorm decks in an unequal footing for years on end. I have played a lot of non-brainstorm stuff before finally learning to love the bomb.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I play it myself, and I think it's the bomb. Would have made top 8 in SCG Worcester had not Erik Smith put a stop to my 6-1 rampage in a feature match. The deck does have weaknesses, and it's somewhat controversial. Some think it's weird and a bit bad. At least one is shielded from the usual "SnT is too easy" charges that unfairly get tossed around.
Give it a go and don't worry about a ban. SnT isn't oppressive at all.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I was also looking at possibly building sneak and show, but again my knowledge of the current competitive meta is a little lacking since I have been out of it for as long as I have. I've noticed burn actually becoming a thing, is this true and how viable is it these days?
So is Punishing jund still a viable choice in the current meta? Or is it too unfavorable at this point in time? Thanks for your input.
UWR UWR Mid-Range
GBW Junk
Legacy
RBG Punishing Jund
Vintage
0 Ichorid
X MUD
Honestly if you pick a random deck a simply stick with it you'll do fine. A big part is learning your deck and your opponents so that you know how to beat it. The sideboard helps with the holes in your deck, or bad matchups if you prefer. The other thing to remember is that legacy is in constant flow so while burn may be good today, it could easily be sneak and show tomorrow, and then death and taxes after that.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord