Here is my meta: full aggro, no graveyard hate, no counterspells, no combo decks. I want to change that and show my friends what ''combo'' decks (in fact, any unfair deck) can look like.
I have a budget of around $150 to build the whole deck. MIGHT be $200 if it shows to be good. Obviously, that means I can't buy LED for the moment.
I tried a few things:
ANT
Belcher
Spanish Inquisition
...and a mix of all of the above. I'm also really looking toward Dredge but it seems to be a bit too expensive (300-ish) and I'm looking for a turn 1 win. In fact, that's my main critera: best turn-1 win ratio possible. So far I tried the following lists:
Problems with this deck: If I don't have a win condition in hand at start, I'm pretty screwed. The lack of draws often kills me compared to Ad Nauseam versions.
Problems I have with this deck: While it's the most consistent decklist I tried, it often needs an Ad Nauseam in main hand to win. I often have to mulligan because I have too many Tendrils of Agony in my hand and not enough starting mana. Usually I have not much problem with the mana fix but just to make sure I'm thinking about changing Tinder Wall for something else.
Problems I have with the deck: Honestly it seems to not be working at all. The ratio of creatures vs the Culling the Weak s HORRIBLE. I often have like 2 or 3 creatures at start and no Culling the Weak at all, it scews my hand by quite a lot when I want to win by turn 1.
And that's about it. I tried a lot of not-worth-mentioning list, containing for example Infernal Tutor without the LED to back it, just hoping I could sink all my mana then cast it, but I too often have a win condition in hand preventing me from doing so. The ratio between draws/mana engine/starting mana is causing me so much problems. If that helps anyone, I really love the Ad Nauseam feeling, it would be totally new for my playgroup to have such a card in a deck. It's far from an obligation but I would like to have it.
I'm short of ideas. Can someone bring a decent looking list that I could test alone on Cockatrice or a total new deck? Maybe something like very budget-manaless Dredge, or even that combo with Balustrade Spy? Could Cheerios do something for me to win on turn 1 or 2?
Culling the Weak is often mixed with Summoning Pact, Elvish Spirit Guide, Dryad Arbor, and Wild Cantor to ensure a sacrificial outlet.
Infernal Tutor and LED are also really important to that deck. I don't think it will really work without it. One of the LEDless Belcher builds will be a good bet.
Honestly though, if the meta is pure aggro, a vanilla LEDless Dredge will be thoroughly crushing all by itself.
Culling the Weak is often mixed with Summoning Pact, Elvish Spirit Guide, Dryad Arbor, and Wild Cantor to ensure a sacrificial outlet.
Infernal Tutor and LED are also really important to that deck. I don't think it will really work without it. One of the LEDless Belcher builds will be a good bet.
Honestly though, if the meta is pure aggro, a vanilla LEDless Dredge will be thoroughly crushing all by itself.
If we trust your analysis and remove Spanish from the list, we're left with either Dredge and Belcher, and no Ad Nauseam deck.
Is the LED-less Belcher lsit I posted what you had in mind, or do you have a better decklist you could share?
Someone also gave me a Dredge list that I should check, please give me your advice on it:
I understand that Dredge can't win on turn 1 and because of that I'm probably going for Belcher, the second reason being that I haven't seen a ''really'' good LED-less Dredge list.
Hey everybody, I feel like I've stumbled upon a tremendous resource. I've been looking to get into Modern and Legacy for a while, and recently built a U/B Delver/Tombstalker deck for Modern that I'm happy with. Next bridge to cross is into Legacy. First a little about myself.
I've collected Magic cards off and of for a long time, played ten years ago casually in high school, but only within the last year started playing often. However I love Magic, and I've built a decent collection, I play standard currently, so I have basically all the cards from M13 thru Dragon's Maze.
Looking forward to a Legacy deck I think I'd like to play black green control or something like that, eventually I'll have Goyfs and Bobs, but right now I don't. Some of the cards I do have I will list below. Some of the cards I might like to play include Deathrite Shaman, Vengevine, Bloodghast, Liliana of the Veil, Sorin Markov
I've got a little coin to but towards my deck, so I'm happy to spend some to create a deck that competes at my LGS at Legacy night. For reference, the first time I played modern with my budget deck I was happy to win once, so I'm not looking for miracles, but I do want to be competitive.
I understand that Dredge can't win on turn 1 and because of that I'm probably going for Belcher, the second reason being that I haven't seen a ''really'' good LED-less Dredge list.
That's one of the Manaless Dredge lists, the sort that was popular during the Mental Misstep era. They aren't popular anymore, and were difficult to pilot even at the time, due to their almost complete inability to deal with even basic hate and their fairly sluggish nature.
It's not the best way to play Dredge nowadays, even excluding LED. Today's LEDless Dredge includes 13-14 lands and Tireless Tribe, and it is prepared to mount an assault using a janky assortment of this creature, Putrid Imp, and possibly a hard cast Narcomeba and Stinkweed Imp. Thus it possesses a rudimentary built-in resistance to hate.
It isn't as fast as what you're looking for, but Dredge is a pretty easy deck to play except for the Therapy calls. Just practice different anti-hate techniques, don't miss triggers that give you zombies, and you're good.
LEDless Belcher is doable, but you will be missing out on Burning Wish. While it will win games, the chances of getting through an entire lengthy tournament (as well as top 8) to win with it are pretty slim. Without the Diamond + Burning Wish move, it doesn't have quite the same consistency and it mulls a little too often. Coupled with opponents actually playing Force and Thoughtseize (on the draw vs you), pulling out a solid afternoon could be a long shot. I'd rather be calling Therapy personally. Dredge is nothing if not consistent.
So I get to take my first shot at legacy since I'm carpooling with friends willing to let me use cards for the open in Baltimore. I've never played a game of sanctioned legacy, so where would a good place to start be? I have no particular favored playstyle, so any sort of archetype will do. I would like something that doesn't require a tremendous amount of legacy knowledge, but can be effective across the board
If you are unfamiliar with the meta, I would suggest some type of combo deck that doesn't much care what the other player is doing... Dredge, belcher, ect...
Unfortunately, legacy requires a pretty good amount of knowledge of other decks and the cards in them. If your opponent leads with Volcanic Island -> Ponder, there's a high chance it's either RUG or SneakNShow.
Read up a bit on a few primers here in the established section, check out some tournament results of recent legacy tourneys to get an idea of what's out there. Legacy is very diverse, and the card pool is huge, but there's no other magic experience like it.
I would play Sneak and Show. It is not a pure autopilot deck but the combo is straight forward and sometimes it just wins. It is a powerful deck and the basic learning curve is lower i think, at least it was for me. Do not get me wrong, there are some more involved choices but the basics are not so bad.
You will see hate, so just read up on the hate.
Also, the deck is fairly proactive and they have to be reactive to you.
Also, if you do not already, watch the SCG live casts on Sundays before he event.
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
I just don't like when people do this at big events. It usually will top your opponent off quickly as to what you are playing. Because no new player will be playing a complicated deck and if they are they will lose with it
I'd say probably BUG Delver / Team America is your best bet. You get a reasonably quick clock combined with a ton of disruption all around, both in the form of counterspells and hand-hate. Your meta seems pretty combo-focused, so I'd say you want to be anti-combo, which is exactly what BUG Delver does.
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Hey there, I'm thinking about getting into Legacy on a budget (initially), so I'd like a deck which I can build on with further investment and/or transposes key cards across several decks.
The only other formats I've played prior to this have been Pauper, Peasant, 100CS & limited drafting. I'm a big fan of Familiar Storm (Uwb Temporal Fissure) and Goblins ~ decks that are 'easy to learn, hard to master'. I've also a pet deck in 4c Teachings, though it's not a competitive deck in any of those formats.
My initial budget is about $350 or so. if that helps at all. I'd prefer something kooky or non linear if at all possible!
Hey there, I'm thinking about getting into Legacy on a budget (initially), so I'd like a deck which I can build on with further investment and/or transposes key cards across several decks.
The only other formats I've played prior to this have been Pauper, Peasant, 100CS & limited drafting. I'm a big fan of Familiar Storm (Uwb Temporal Fissure) and Goblins ~ decks that are 'easy to learn, hard to master'. I've also a pet deck in 4c Teachings, though it's not a competitive deck in any of those formats.
My initial budget is about $350 or so. if that helps at all. I'd prefer something kooky or non linear if at all possible!
The transpose key cards across several decks is going to make this difficult if not impossible. Most of the decks that use common cards run dual lands that, right off the bat, are going to cost you hundreds. And that's without anything else.
Most of the cheap decks are either linear (Goblins) or have cards that aren't used anywhere else (Cheeri0's, Dredge)
Your best bet is trying to put together a storm based deck like ANT or TES which do have cards in common and are used for other decks. But you won't put those together for $350. But they are probably the cheapest options.
Your best bet is trying to put together a storm based deck like ANT or TES which do have cards in common and are used for other decks. But you won't put those together for $350. But they are probably the cheapest options.
I was worried you were going to say that.
If I was to go the budget combo route, what's the best bang for my buck? Doomsday? SacLand Tendrils? Solidarity? Spring Tide? Belcher? Cheerios? Hive Mind? Legacy Eggs?
I realise it depends on my meta, but any direction?
Dredge plays Lion's Eye Diamond which are played in many other combo decks so it could be a good starting point. There's even a cheap version without Lion's Eye Diamond but none of the cards are really transferable.
Most playsets of cards you need for the most expensive decks cost the same as your budget.
I want to build a storm combo deck but don't have money for the seas/islands for TES. I think I'd like to eventually evolve into that as I get more money. My question: would it better to build SI fully (already have the bayous) or build TES/ANT with shocks? Assume the rest of the deck is within my budget at the moment.
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Here is my meta: full aggro, no graveyard hate, no counterspells, no combo decks. I want to change that and show my friends what ''combo'' decks (in fact, any unfair deck) can look like.
I have a budget of around $150 to build the whole deck. MIGHT be $200 if it shows to be good. Obviously, that means I can't buy LED for the moment.
I tried a few things:
ANT
Belcher
Spanish Inquisition
...and a mix of all of the above. I'm also really looking toward Dredge but it seems to be a bit too expensive (300-ish) and I'm looking for a turn 1 win. In fact, that's my main critera: best turn-1 win ratio possible. So far I tried the following lists:
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stomping Ground
4 Chrome Mox
4 Rite of Flame
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Tinder Wall
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Empty the Warrens
Draws
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
Problems with this deck: If I don't have a win condition in hand at start, I'm pretty screwed. The lack of draws often kills me compared to Ad Nauseam versions.
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Stomping Ground
4 Chrome Mox
4 Rite of Flame
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Tinder Wall
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Tendrils of Agony
Draws
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Manamorphose
Problems I have with this deck: While it's the most consistent decklist I tried, it often needs an Ad Nauseam in main hand to win. I often have to mulligan because I have too many Tendrils of Agony in my hand and not enough starting mana. Usually I have not much problem with the mana fix but just to make sure I'm thinking about changing Tinder Wall for something else.
4 Land Grant
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Culling the Weak
4 Tendrils of Agony
3 Goblin Charbelcher
Draws
4 Manamorphose
4 Ad Nauseam
Problems I have with the deck: Honestly it seems to not be working at all. The ratio of creatures vs the Culling the Weak s HORRIBLE. I often have like 2 or 3 creatures at start and no Culling the Weak at all, it scews my hand by quite a lot when I want to win by turn 1.
And that's about it. I tried a lot of not-worth-mentioning list, containing for example Infernal Tutor without the LED to back it, just hoping I could sink all my mana then cast it, but I too often have a win condition in hand preventing me from doing so. The ratio between draws/mana engine/starting mana is causing me so much problems. If that helps anyone, I really love the Ad Nauseam feeling, it would be totally new for my playgroup to have such a card in a deck. It's far from an obligation but I would like to have it.
I'm short of ideas. Can someone bring a decent looking list that I could test alone on Cockatrice or a total new deck? Maybe something like very budget-manaless Dredge, or even that combo with Balustrade Spy? Could Cheerios do something for me to win on turn 1 or 2?
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
Infernal Tutor and LED are also really important to that deck. I don't think it will really work without it. One of the LEDless Belcher builds will be a good bet.
Honestly though, if the meta is pure aggro, a vanilla LEDless Dredge will be thoroughly crushing all by itself.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
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Helix
If we trust your analysis and remove Spanish from the list, we're left with either Dredge and Belcher, and no Ad Nauseam deck.
Is the LED-less Belcher lsit I posted what you had in mind, or do you have a better decklist you could share?
Someone also gave me a Dredge list that I should check, please give me your advice on it:
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Dryad Arbor
4 Phantasmogorian
4 Ichorid
4 Street Wraith
4 Nether Shadow
3 Contagion
1 Sickening Shoal
3 Griselbrand
4 Dread Return
4 Narcomoeba
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Bridge from Below
3 Shambling Shell
4 Cabal Therapy
I understand that Dredge can't win on turn 1 and because of that I'm probably going for Belcher, the second reason being that I haven't seen a ''really'' good LED-less Dredge list.
I've collected Magic cards off and of for a long time, played ten years ago casually in high school, but only within the last year started playing often. However I love Magic, and I've built a decent collection, I play standard currently, so I have basically all the cards from M13 thru Dragon's Maze.
Looking forward to a Legacy deck I think I'd like to play black green control or something like that, eventually I'll have Goyfs and Bobs, but right now I don't. Some of the cards I do have I will list below. Some of the cards I might like to play include Deathrite Shaman, Vengevine, Bloodghast, Liliana of the Veil, Sorin Markov
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Cabal therapy
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Tombstalker
2x Sorin Markov
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Bloodghast
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
1x Phyrexian Area
1x Jitte
I've got a little coin to but towards my deck, so I'm happy to spend some to create a deck that competes at my LGS at Legacy night. For reference, the first time I played modern with my budget deck I was happy to win once, so I'm not looking for miracles, but I do want to be competitive.
Thanks in advance.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
That's one of the Manaless Dredge lists, the sort that was popular during the Mental Misstep era. They aren't popular anymore, and were difficult to pilot even at the time, due to their almost complete inability to deal with even basic hate and their fairly sluggish nature.
It's not the best way to play Dredge nowadays, even excluding LED. Today's LEDless Dredge includes 13-14 lands and Tireless Tribe, and it is prepared to mount an assault using a janky assortment of this creature, Putrid Imp, and possibly a hard cast Narcomeba and Stinkweed Imp. Thus it possesses a rudimentary built-in resistance to hate.
It isn't as fast as what you're looking for, but Dredge is a pretty easy deck to play except for the Therapy calls. Just practice different anti-hate techniques, don't miss triggers that give you zombies, and you're good.
LEDless Belcher is doable, but you will be missing out on Burning Wish. While it will win games, the chances of getting through an entire lengthy tournament (as well as top 8) to win with it are pretty slim. Without the Diamond + Burning Wish move, it doesn't have quite the same consistency and it mulls a little too often. Coupled with opponents actually playing Force and Thoughtseize (on the draw vs you), pulling out a solid afternoon could be a long shot. I'd rather be calling Therapy personally. Dredge is nothing if not consistent.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
Read up a bit on a few primers here in the established section, check out some tournament results of recent legacy tourneys to get an idea of what's out there. Legacy is very diverse, and the card pool is huge, but there's no other magic experience like it.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
You will see hate, so just read up on the hate.
Also, the deck is fairly proactive and they have to be reactive to you.
Also, if you do not already, watch the SCG live casts on Sundays before he event.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=4832736
Trading 10 full art zen basics for 8 of yours!
I want
Plains - John Avon - 230
Island - Jung Park - 235
Island - Vincent Proce - 237
Swamp - John Avon - 238
Mountain - John Avon - 242
Forest - John Avon - 246
No one is going to pull any punches at a SCG event.
In fact I'm inclined to state that it's my first Legacy tournament pretty much every time I go to one. Some find it funny.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
-:koopa:
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
The only other formats I've played prior to this have been Pauper, Peasant, 100CS & limited drafting. I'm a big fan of Familiar Storm (Uwb Temporal Fissure) and Goblins ~ decks that are 'easy to learn, hard to master'. I've also a pet deck in 4c Teachings, though it's not a competitive deck in any of those formats.
My initial budget is about $350 or so. if that helps at all. I'd prefer something kooky or non linear if at all possible!
The transpose key cards across several decks is going to make this difficult if not impossible. Most of the decks that use common cards run dual lands that, right off the bat, are going to cost you hundreds. And that's without anything else.
Most of the cheap decks are either linear (Goblins) or have cards that aren't used anywhere else (Cheeri0's, Dredge)
Your best bet is trying to put together a storm based deck like ANT or TES which do have cards in common and are used for other decks. But you won't put those together for $350. But they are probably the cheapest options.
I was worried you were going to say that.
If I was to go the budget combo route, what's the best bang for my buck? Doomsday? SacLand Tendrils? Solidarity? Spring Tide? Belcher? Cheerios? Hive Mind? Legacy Eggs?
I realise it depends on my meta, but any direction?
Most playsets of cards you need for the most expensive decks cost the same as your budget.