Hey, guys! I'm a Modern player that's looking to have some fun with another Eternal format. Budget isn't really an issue, and I have a pretty varied playstyle. I piloted Modern Merfolk before switching to mostly Jeskai Nahiri Control, and also have Tron, Jund, Abzan CoCo, and Boggles that I play with occasionally. Basically, I'm a bit of a deck-collector, at least in Modern, though I accept that doing so in Legacy is much more restrictive monetarily.
I've been watching recent Legacy tourneys, and I've enjoyed what I've seen, from BUG Shardless to TES to Delver builds to Miracles. I really like the concept of the Stoneforge Mystic shells, but it looks like most of the forums relating to those here have been a little stagnant recently. After reading around the rest of the forums here, I really am not sure what I'd enjoy most. I'm still learning the format (though I think I've got the basics), so what deck would you all suggest for someone wanting to get into the format and enjoy? I'm not 100% sure of my LGS's Legacy meta, but I'm pretty sure there are at least one or two Sneak and Shows.
Thanks!
EDIT: I generally enjoy reactive decks, compared to goldfishing ones, but at the same time I think Belcher looks fun to run.
Hey, guys! I'm a Modern player that's looking to have some fun with another Eternal format. Budget isn't really an issue, and I have a pretty varied playstyle. I piloted Modern Merfolk before switching to mostly Jeskai Nahiri Control, and also have Tron, Jund, Abzan CoCo, and Boggles that I play with occasionally. Basically, I'm a bit of a deck-collector, at least in Modern, though I accept that doing so in Legacy is much more restrictive monetarily.
I've been watching recent Legacy tourneys, and I've enjoyed what I've seen, from BUG Shardless to TES to Delver builds to Miracles. I really like the concept of the Stoneforge Mystic shells, but it looks like most of the forums relating to those here have been a little stagnant recently. After reading around the rest of the forums here, I really am not sure what I'd enjoy most. I'm still learning the format (though I think I've got the basics), so what deck would you all suggest for someone wanting to get into the format and enjoy? I'm not 100% sure of my LGS's Legacy meta, but I'm pretty sure there are at least one or two Sneak and Shows.
Thanks!
EDIT: I generally enjoy reactive decks, compared to goldfishing ones, but at the same time I think Belcher looks fun to run.
Belcher is fun for awhile, but it's the kind of deck people get tired of. Mostly folks bring it to tournaments when they think there won't be many blue decks, and these folks have a lot of options as to what deck they'll play. I did know one guy, though, who steadfastly played Belcher every week at the LGS: even when he could have played other decks, even when everyone knew what he was on before he shuffled, and even when said LGS crossed the 90% blue mark.
Coming out of Modern, Merfolk isn't a bad entry point for someone getting into Legacy. The only pricey pickup is Force of Will, which was just reprinted and is Legacy's most iconic card. It's not really top tier, but it's low hanging fruit.
After a couple of weeks with the Fish you'll know where you want to go.
EDIT: some forums are stagnant here, and the main conversations (in English) about those decks generally take place at The Source. The big exceptions are DnT and Burn, which have loads of really loyal players who post regularly on this site.
Hey, guys! I'm a Modern player that's looking to have some fun with another Eternal format. Budget isn't really an issue, and I have a pretty varied playstyle. I piloted Modern Merfolk before switching to mostly Jeskai Nahiri Control, and also have Tron, Jund, Abzan CoCo, and Boggles that I play with occasionally. Basically, I'm a bit of a deck-collector, at least in Modern, though I accept that doing so in Legacy is much more restrictive monetarily.
I've been watching recent Legacy tourneys, and I've enjoyed what I've seen, from BUG Shardless to TES to Delver builds to Miracles. I really like the concept of the Stoneforge Mystic shells, but it looks like most of the forums relating to those here have been a little stagnant recently. After reading around the rest of the forums here, I really am not sure what I'd enjoy most. I'm still learning the format (though I think I've got the basics), so what deck would you all suggest for someone wanting to get into the format and enjoy? I'm not 100% sure of my LGS's Legacy meta, but I'm pretty sure there are at least one or two Sneak and Shows.
Thanks!
EDIT: I generally enjoy reactive decks, compared to goldfishing ones, but at the same time I think Belcher looks fun to run.
Welcome!
I'd strongly recommend building anything that looks interesting--even if it's just with sharpied cards/Cockatrice and playing against yourself--to see what feels right. It's a really personal and unpredictable thing.
In terms of Stoneforge Mystic, do you feel like you want to play blue? You could go the Death & Taxes route if you don't, or the DeathBlade or Blade Control route if you do.
And you'll find more active deck threads on The Source.
I'd strongly recommend building anything that looks interesting--even if it's just with sharpied cards/Cockatrice and playing against yourself--to see what feels right. It's a really personal and unpredictable thing.
In terms of Stoneforge Mystic, do you feel like you want to play blue? You could go the Death & Taxes route if you don't, or the DeathBlade or Blade Control route if you do.
And you'll find more active deck threads on The Source.
Would Death and Taxes be pretty safe in an unknown meta? I can imagine decks like Dredge and Sneak and Show being a bit of a gamble (if a meta deals with them a lot, I feel like it'd be not uncommon for an entire local meta to evolve hate for the deck). But it feels like DnT doesn't have as much distinct hate.
Hey, guys! I'm a Modern player that's looking to have some fun with another Eternal format. Budget isn't really an issue, and I have a pretty varied playstyle. I piloted Modern Merfolk before switching to mostly Jeskai Nahiri Control, and also have Tron, Jund, Abzan CoCo, and Boggles that I play with occasionally. Basically, I'm a bit of a deck-collector, at least in Modern, though I accept that doing so in Legacy is much more restrictive monetarily.
I've been watching recent Legacy tourneys, and I've enjoyed what I've seen, from BUG Shardless to TES to Delver builds to Miracles. I really like the concept of the Stoneforge Mystic shells, but it looks like most of the forums relating to those here have been a little stagnant recently. After reading around the rest of the forums here, I really am not sure what I'd enjoy most. I'm still learning the format (though I think I've got the basics), so what deck would you all suggest for someone wanting to get into the format and enjoy? I'm not 100% sure of my LGS's Legacy meta, but I'm pretty sure there are at least one or two Sneak and Shows.
Thanks!
EDIT: I generally enjoy reactive decks, compared to goldfishing ones, but at the same time I think Belcher looks fun to run.
Belcher is fun for awhile, but it's the kind of deck people get tired of. Mostly folks bring it to tournaments when they think there won't be many blue decks, and these folks have a lot of options as to what deck they'll play. I did know one guy, though, who steadfastly played Belcher every week at the LGS: even when he could have played other decks, even when everyone knew what he was on before he shuffled, and even when said LGS crossed the 90% blue mark.
Coming out of Modern, Merfolk isn't a bad entry point for someone getting into Legacy. The only pricey pickup is Force of Will, which was just reprinted and is Legacy's most iconic card. It's not really top tier, but it's low hanging fruit.
After a couple of weeks with the Fish you'll know where you want to go.
EDIT: some forums are stagnant here, and the main conversations (in English) about those decks generally take place at The Source. The big exceptions are DnT and Burn, which have loads of really loyal players who post regularly on this site.
is it fair to assume belcher is a good deck when people don't expect it or don't know what to do against it?
I know a few people around here who have it and they do really well against newer players and players who don't play counters for it. They both say its boring though
Would Death and Taxes be pretty safe in an unknown meta? I can imagine decks like Dredge and Sneak and Show being a bit of a gamble (if a meta deals with them a lot, I feel like it'd be not uncommon for an entire local meta to evolve hate for the deck). But it feels like DnT doesn't have as much distinct hate.
I'd say so. The dedicated DnT hate is basically Sulfur Elemental (plus any other creature hate, but that's broader in scope). DnT has access to some flexible answers and mana denial is rarely a bad plan. It's at its best when you have some idea of what you're walking into and can tune your disruption a little more but it's not going to fall flat if you can't. Two disclaimers to end on: first, I don't play DnT and this is an outside perspective. I may be off on some points or forgetting some things here. Second, I strongly agree with BasqueRootwalla that you should try out several decks and see which ones you like to play before making a choice.
is it fair to assume belcher is a good deck when people don't expect it or don't know what to do against it?
I know a few people around here who have it and they do really well against newer players and players who don't play counters for it. They both say its boring though
Yeah. It's definitely a glass cannon combo. If you know where to disrupt it and have the cards to do so, it's going to fall flat a lot of the time. If you don't, you're slower than the deck unless you're playing something similarly unfair. When Belcher is doing well it's goldfishing, which is why it can get boring to play.
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just out of curiosity, what are the important cards to hate out in belcher/any storm deck? Coming from a pox perspective (what would my haymakers be?)
Short answer, I would take kill cards against belcher (if I could get all of them) and whatever resource storm seems low on against them, defaulting to taking dig cards like BS/Ponder if everything else is roughly equal. I would rarely take the kill cards from storm. That said, it's obviously going to vary depending on their deck and how the game is going. Your goal in those games should be to slow them down with targeted discard long enough for you to shred their hand with larger spells. Critical mass combo decks like storm are going to have trouble winning without cards in hand (or PiF, but you can only do so much about that preboard). I would also try the same question in some of the combo threads and the pox thread, because they will almost certainly have a better handle on the matchup than I will. The only storm deck I've played with any regularity is Spanish Inquisition, and that has much easier targets to spot. Just hit the D4s, and that's only if the deck doesn't fizzle on its own.
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Hey guys! I'm a modern player I'm about to turn 16 so I have a budget. Of an initial $1000 however will upgrade over time.
Decks I have played and ejoyed: splinter twin (u/r and grixis). Esper control, jeskai control abzan midrange. Abzan company. Grixis control, Grixis delver. Esper walkers,
My playstyle is midrange/control (I love grindy decks). Colors
Blue-black-green-white-red in that order blue being my most perfered color.
Staples I already own: I'm buying 4 fow in 2 weeks. I own 3 snapcaster mage, 2 tarmogoyf 4 Bob, 2 Liliana of the veil, scooze death rite shaman 1 wasteland, 3 hymn to torach, 1 baleful strix. 3 brainstorm And probably some others. I have access to borrowing 1 underground sea, 1 tropical island, 1 jace the mind sculptor.
So what deck do you recommend? And I want to build up to I deck I would like to play it doesn't have to clock in at $1000, also what replacements/buying order would you recommend until I build the full deck?
Hey guys! I'm a modern player I'm about to turn 16 so I have a budget. Of an initial $1000 however will upgrade over time.
Decks I have played and ejoyed: splinter twin (u/r and grixis). Esper control, jeskai control abzan midrange. Abzan company. Grixis control, Grixis delver. Esper walkers,
My playstyle is midrange/control (I love grindy decks). Colors
Blue-black-green-white-red in that order blue being my most perfered color.
Staples I already own: I'm buying 4 fow in 2 weeks. I own 3 snapcaster mage, 2 tarmogoyf 4 Bob, 2 Liliana of the veil, scooze death rite shaman 1 wasteland, 3 hymn to torach, 1 baleful strix. 3 brainstorm And probably some others. I have access to borrowing 1 underground sea, 1 tropical island, 1 jace the mind sculptor.
So what deck do you recommend? And I want to build up to I deck I would like to play it doesn't have to clock in at $1000, also what replacements/buying order would you recommend until I build the full deck?
I'm assuming you have at least some fetchlands if you're a modern player, which is going to be very relevant to anything multicolored. Hopefully you also have some number of Abrupt Decay, which seems very possible based on what you have listed there. I would look into Shardless BUG. It hits your preferred playstyle and colors pretty well, the deck is solid, and you either own or can borrow a fair number of the pricey cards. I'm not sure what the exact quantities of things that Shardless runs look like, but you have a chunk of the cards and a lot of what you're missing is in EMA so now is a great time to pick some of that up. Prioritize fetchlands for colors and you can cheat on dual counts for a while. Try and have one of each, but you can supplement with shocks or basics. The only things you really need to pick up are the set of Shardless Agent, 3-4 Ancestral Visions, 3 Deathrites, a pair of Goyfs, a couple Wastelands (I'm used to abbreviating this to Wastes, but that might throw people off now), and a Bayou. With the borrowed stuff, that should get you to something playable enough for local tournaments and practice with room in your budget left over. Swap out the duals you don't have for shocks, Creeping Tar Pits, and basics in some quantity or just use some of your remaining cash to fill in the holes.
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Hey guys! I'm a modern player I'm about to turn 16 so I have a budget. Of an initial $1000 however will upgrade over time.
Decks I have played and ejoyed: splinter twin (u/r and grixis). Esper control, jeskai control abzan midrange. Abzan company. Grixis control, Grixis delver. Esper walkers,
My playstyle is midrange/control (I love grindy decks). Colors
Blue-black-green-white-red in that order blue being my most perfered color.
Staples I already own: I'm buying 4 fow in 2 weeks. I own 3 snapcaster mage, 2 tarmogoyf 4 Bob, 2 Liliana of the veil, scooze death rite shaman 1 wasteland, 3 hymn to torach, 1 baleful strix. 3 brainstorm And probably some others. I have access to borrowing 1 underground sea, 1 tropical island, 1 jace the mind sculptor.
So what deck do you recommend? And I want to build up to I deck I would like to play it doesn't have to clock in at $1000, also what replacements/buying order would you recommend until I build the full deck?
I'm assuming you have at least some fetchlands if you're a modern player, which is going to be very relevant to anything multicolored. Hopefully you also have some number of Abrupt Decay, which seems very possible based on what you have listed there. I would look into Shardless BUG. It hits your preferred playstyle and colors pretty well, the deck is solid, and you either own or can borrow a fair number of the pricey cards. I'm not sure what the exact quantities of things that Shardless runs look like, but you have a chunk of the cards and a lot of what you're missing is in EMA so now is a great time to pick some of that up. Prioritize fetchlands for colors and you can cheat on dual counts for a while. Try and have one of each, but you can supplement with shocks or basics. The only things you really need to pick up are the set of Shardless Agent, 3-4 Ancestral Visions, 3 Deathrites, a pair of Goyfs, a couple Wastelands (I'm used to abbreviating this to Wastes, but that might throw people off now), and a Bayou. With the borrowed stuff, that should get you to something playable enough for local tournaments and practice with room in your budget left over. Swap out the duals you don't have for shocks, Creeping Tar Pits, and basics in some quantity or just use some of your remaining cash to fill in the holes.
Hello! Thank you for the reply! I've been interested in shardless bug since I started to hear about the legacy forma but never though I could ever be able to build it but now I can so yay there's that. And yes I have 3 polluted delta? 4 strands, 2 verdant catacombs, 2 Abrupt Decay I also own 3 thoughtseize. I sold my 2 creeping tar pit once twin got banned...so how does the priority list go for you? Probably bayou-wasteland-goyf-ancestral vision-deathrite-shardless agent? Also should I run the 2 duels I'm being lent and buy the 3rd and fill in rest with shocks and a couple basics? Or I could add in a couple more fetches. Also what about jace the mind sculptor? Could you help me make a list of the best things for this deck that clock in at $1000 minus the things I own and the cards I can borrow? Question about playstyle how grindy is the deck? Top deck wars? And also how long do the games tend to take? I have played control decks in magic since I began playing magic 5 years ago I'm pretty proficient with control decks but I'm wondering if I need to worry about the clock and closing games out?
Thanks for the recommendation and cheers!
Shardless is super grindy, and it's got so much card advantage that you'll rarely be out of cards in hand. Almost every card in the deck is a 2-for-1.
If it were me, I actually wouldn't start with the duals at all, on the theory that substitutes exist for those cards. Substitutes don't exist, on the other hand, for Tarmogoyf, Jace, the namesake Shardless Agent, Ancestral, DRS, and many other cards that form the meat of the deck. I'd rather be slinging shock lands with Goyf than duals with Werebear.
Shardless is super grindy, and it's got so much card advantage that you'll rarely be out of cards in hand. Almost every card in the deck is a 2-for-1.
If it were me, I actually wouldn't start with the duals at all, on the theory that substitutes exist for those cards. Substitutes don't exist, on the other hand, for Tarmogoyf, Jace, the namesake Shardless Agent, Ancestral, DRS, and many other cards that form the meat of the deck. I'd rather be slinging shock lands with Goyf than duals with Werebear.
I agree, but I like having at least a single copy as a fetch target and the budget supports a Bayou without giving up any of the other core cards. If Soccerbeast was building from scratch and couldn't borrow anything, I wouldn't say that duals should be part of the budget yet. I suspect that they can build a decent version with all of the important stuff and a couple duals without going over budget though. There's also some appeal in owning at least one dual if you're interested in playing a format that they're legal in, but that's a little more of a personal thing.
Hello! Thank you for the reply! I've been interested in shardless bug since I started to hear about the legacy forma but never though I could ever be able to build it but now I can so yay there's that. And yes I have 3 polluted delta? 4 strands, 2 verdant catacombs, 2 Abrupt Decay I also own 3 thoughtseize. I sold my 2 creeping tar pit once twin got banned...so how does the priority list go for you? Probably bayou-wasteland-goyf-ancestral vision-deathrite-shardless agent? Also should I run the 2 duels I'm being lent and buy the 3rd and fill in rest with shocks and a couple basics? Or I could add in a couple more fetches. Also what about jace the mind sculptor? Could you help me make a list of the best things for this deck that clock in at $1000 minus the things I own and the cards I can borrow? Question about playstyle how grindy is the deck? Top deck wars? And also how long do the games tend to take? I have played control decks in magic since I began playing magic 5 years ago I'm pretty proficient with control decks but I'm wondering if I need to worry about the clock and closing games out?
Thanks for the recommendation and cheers!
I think I would actually reverse your priorities. DRS is one of the best cards in the deck, Shardless is the namesake, Vision and Goyf are the payoff cards and win conditions, Wastelands can give you occasional free wins, and the Bayou is just color fixing. I know you want at least one Jace. I have no idea if you need a second or a third. You really want to be talking to someone who actually plays the deck for those kinds of discussions.
With zero searching around and only looking at NM/4x copies on TCGPlayer, I could find 3 DRS, 2 Goyf, 4 Agents, 1 Bayou, 3 Visions, and 2 Wastelands for around $750. That leaves you some budget for sideboard cards and the other maindeck stuff I haven't mentioned, like Baleful Strix/other discard/etc. I would take that information and do 3 things. First, check out the Shardless threads here and at the source (no idea how active the MTGS one is but the source is hopping and you want a broad range of options) to try and get some idea of what cards you need, what cards are most important to the deck, and how many copies you're after. Also, I don't play the deck and have no idea about the finer points of its construction. Don't forget the sideboard. Most of those shouldn't be too bad or can be replaced with cheaper options (Spell Pierce instead of Flusterstorm, for example) but there are some popular options that may cost a little more. Second, proxy the deck up or load up one of the free programs and make sure you like playing it. It's certainly not impossible to switch between decks and Shardless runs a few staple cards but you still don't really want to have to buy and sell if you don't have to. Third, do more bargain hunting than I have. I promise you can get everything listed there for less than $750 with even minimal time searching for deals. Things like worse conditions, particularly for any duals you end up buying, can drop prices a lot and there are good deals to be had on a lot of the pricier stuff in places like the high end facebook group. On the same note, be patient. One of the perks of legacy is that you can build a deck over time. If you can borrow or proxy what you don't have until you find a good price that's not the end of the world.
The deck is grindy and full of card advantage but I don't think of it as one that goes to time a lot. Goyf and Jace can do a lot of work closing out games, the 1/1 and 2/2 beatdown plan is an effective one if you're backing it up with a grip of disruption, and DRS can do a surprising amount of work. Just remember to chip in damage here and there when you can and you should be alright.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
After some digging around, I found two decks that I think I really cool: Pox and Enchantress. My problem is that I am on a budget, and my definition of budget is "cheaper than most Legacy decks," maybe sub $500 to start but can be upgraded into a full version over time. Note that this is only for small LGS tournaments, so it doesn't need to be uber competitive, just able to compete. What are the pros and cons of each, and how do they handle the following?
Eldrazi (this is huge in my meta)
Mono Black Reanimator
Belcher
Infect
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
After some digging around, I found two decks that I think I really cool: Pox and Enchantress. My problem is that I am on a budget, and my definition of budget is "cheaper than most Legacy decks," maybe sub $500 to start but can be upgraded into a full version over time. Note that this is only for small LGS tournaments, so it doesn't need to be uber competitive, just able to compete. What are the pros and cons of each, and how do they handle the following?
Eldrazi (this is huge in my meta)
Mono Black Reanimator
Belcher
Infect
Depending on your build of enchantress, most of those should be very winnable. I used to run the Replenish version, and I can say that all of those would have been very positive match-ups, except for perhaps Reanimator. Reanimator used to be a major thorn for my enchantress list.
I would expect Pox to be worse than enchantress against that line-up.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
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ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Depending on your build of enchantress, most of those should be very winnable. I used to run the Replenish version, and I can say that all of those would have been very positive match-ups, except for perhaps Reanimator. Reanimator used to be a major thorn for my enchantress list.
I would expect Pox to be worse than enchantress against that line-up.
I feel like Belcher would be a problem for Enchantress. Fast combo has traditionally been the bane of the deck. I haven't played it for a while, but I keep an eye on it and it doesn't seem like there have been any major changes that would help that. It could deal with Empty, but how are you getting defenses up fast enough to stop Belcher? I agree that it can probably do fine against Eldrazi and Infect. I also like the deck more than Pox in general, but I'm hugely biased on that front.
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Depending on your build of enchantress, most of those should be very winnable. I used to run the Replenish version, and I can say that all of those would have been very positive match-ups, except for perhaps Reanimator. Reanimator used to be a major thorn for my enchantress list.
I would expect Pox to be worse than enchantress against that line-up.
I feel like Belcher would be a problem for Enchantress. Fast combo has traditionally been the bane of the deck. I haven't played it for a while, but I keep an eye on it and it doesn't seem like there have been any major changes that would help that. It could deal with Empty, but how are you getting defenses up fast enough to stop Belcher? I agree that it can probably do fine against Eldrazi and Infect. I also like the deck more than Pox in general, but I'm hugely biased on that front.
Enchantress very reasonably can (and in that meta, probably should) maindeck Leyline of Sanctity.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
At any Legacy tournament I've ever been to, I've always noticed there's at least one Enchantress player. He's the guy who may not make the T8, but no matter what, he always seems to be having fun. The deck itself tends to feature beautiful artwork on most of its namesake cards, strong synergies, and it seems to be a Legacy deck that occasionally gets to add new fuel to the fire as stronger enchantments get printed. It's weak spot is fast combo, but it does have tools to fight it.....Rest in Peace, Leyline of Sanctity both come to mind. And while lots of people pack graveyard hate, storm hate, and Delver hate, the amount of Enchantress hate seems to be pretty low. If I were ever going to build a second deck myself, it would be this one. As I mentioned earlier too, if Earthcraft ever comes off the banlist, Enchantress could easily return to Tier 1 status.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
One last comment on enchantress: I will caution you that the deck is much more brain-intensive than it might seem, and very subtle sequencing decisions can determine the game. The implications of this are that:
1. When you're still new at it, you should expect to experience high fatigue -- even at mid-size tournaments of 5-6 rounds. You're able to draw an absurd number of cards a turn, and you will need to be able to adjust to board states that radically change from turn to turn, while also having a ton of decision points to make due to the large number of cards.
2. Moreso than many decks I've played -- Enchantress has a deceptively steep learning curve. This means that you shouldn't be surprised if you need a lot of games to get the hang of it or to even figure out if the "stock" list you chose is any good (on that note: I am a strong proponent of the GWr build with replenish and words of war that skips on Rest in Peace and Emrakul).
3. Due to #2, you will still be gaining measurable improvements even after playing the deck for a long time. This can be quite rewarding (it also means you can exploit skill differentials when facing opponents who haven't faced a strong enchantress player).
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
So I've wanted to get into legacy for a while now and I've decided that I want to play a control or late game deck with brainstorm and force of will, but I don't want to play miracles. I've had slight interest in loam pox but I really like manipulating my deck/drawing cards. Is there maybe a fringe deck or a homebrew or some other deck I haven't heard about? Pretend that cost isn't an issue.
So I've wanted to get into legacy for a while now and I've decided that I want to play a control or late game deck with brainstorm and force of will, but I don't want to play miracles. I've had slight interest in loam pox but I really like manipulating my deck/drawing cards. Is there maybe a fringe deck or a homebrew or some other deck I haven't heard about? Pretend that cost isn't an issue.
RUG Lands is a control deck with plenty of deck manipulation, but without FoW or Brainstorm.
There are blue Stoneblade decks that are pretty controlly.
It's not seen much anymore, but Landstill is an out-and-out blue control deck.
So I've wanted to get into legacy for a while now and I've decided that I want to play a control or late game deck with brainstorm and force of will, but I don't want to play miracles. I've had slight interest in loam pox but I really like manipulating my deck/drawing cards. Is there maybe a fringe deck or a homebrew or some other deck I haven't heard about? Pretend that cost isn't an issue.
Depending on what you mean by "don't want to play miracles", you could try Punishing Miracles.
What I mean by this is:
1. It plays quite differently from all the "normal" miracles lists.
2. Unlike "normal" miracles, it generates hard card advantage and draws a TON of cards (dack fayden with Punishing Fire recursion gets nuts).
3. If your aversion is to playing a well-known deck, this solves that problem pretty well.
If that still doesn't sound great to you, I will mention that even as a traditional control player myself, I've really enjoyed Aluren. You end up grinding people out under raw card advantage and just winning off of 1/1 beats in a surprisingly large number of the games. The sheer mobility on the stack also appealed to me.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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Thanks to you both for the help. I guess I should've mentioned what I really don't want to play is the counter-top combo, but thanks for the suggestion. I think I'm going to look into Aluren, Standstill, and UW Stoneblade lists. Still open to suggestions though. Thanks again
So I've wanted to get into legacy for a while now and I've decided that I want to play a control or late game deck with brainstorm and force of will, but I don't want to play miracles. I've had slight interest in loam pox but I really like manipulating my deck/drawing cards. Is there maybe a fringe deck or a homebrew or some other deck I haven't heard about? Pretend that cost isn't an issue.
Twelvepost!
This might be putting the bounds of pretending pretty far out there, and a lot of cards in this deck aren't really used elsewhere.
I've been watching recent Legacy tourneys, and I've enjoyed what I've seen, from BUG Shardless to TES to Delver builds to Miracles. I really like the concept of the Stoneforge Mystic shells, but it looks like most of the forums relating to those here have been a little stagnant recently. After reading around the rest of the forums here, I really am not sure what I'd enjoy most. I'm still learning the format (though I think I've got the basics), so what deck would you all suggest for someone wanting to get into the format and enjoy? I'm not 100% sure of my LGS's Legacy meta, but I'm pretty sure there are at least one or two Sneak and Shows.
Thanks!
EDIT: I generally enjoy reactive decks, compared to goldfishing ones, but at the same time I think Belcher looks fun to run.
Belcher is fun for awhile, but it's the kind of deck people get tired of. Mostly folks bring it to tournaments when they think there won't be many blue decks, and these folks have a lot of options as to what deck they'll play. I did know one guy, though, who steadfastly played Belcher every week at the LGS: even when he could have played other decks, even when everyone knew what he was on before he shuffled, and even when said LGS crossed the 90% blue mark.
Coming out of Modern, Merfolk isn't a bad entry point for someone getting into Legacy. The only pricey pickup is Force of Will, which was just reprinted and is Legacy's most iconic card. It's not really top tier, but it's low hanging fruit.
After a couple of weeks with the Fish you'll know where you want to go.
EDIT: some forums are stagnant here, and the main conversations (in English) about those decks generally take place at The Source. The big exceptions are DnT and Burn, which have loads of really loyal players who post regularly on this site.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
Welcome!
I'd strongly recommend building anything that looks interesting--even if it's just with sharpied cards/Cockatrice and playing against yourself--to see what feels right. It's a really personal and unpredictable thing.
In terms of Stoneforge Mystic, do you feel like you want to play blue? You could go the Death & Taxes route if you don't, or the DeathBlade or Blade Control route if you do.
And you'll find more active deck threads on The Source.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Would Death and Taxes be pretty safe in an unknown meta? I can imagine decks like Dredge and Sneak and Show being a bit of a gamble (if a meta deals with them a lot, I feel like it'd be not uncommon for an entire local meta to evolve hate for the deck). But it feels like DnT doesn't have as much distinct hate.
is it fair to assume belcher is a good deck when people don't expect it or don't know what to do against it?
I know a few people around here who have it and they do really well against newer players and players who don't play counters for it. They both say its boring though
Yeah. It's definitely a glass cannon combo. If you know where to disrupt it and have the cards to do so, it's going to fall flat a lot of the time. If you don't, you're slower than the deck unless you're playing something similarly unfair. When Belcher is doing well it's goldfishing, which is why it can get boring to play.
Decks I have played and ejoyed: splinter twin (u/r and grixis). Esper control, jeskai control abzan midrange. Abzan company. Grixis control, Grixis delver. Esper walkers,
My playstyle is midrange/control (I love grindy decks). Colors
Blue-black-green-white-red in that order blue being my most perfered color.
Staples I already own: I'm buying 4 fow in 2 weeks. I own 3 snapcaster mage, 2 tarmogoyf 4 Bob, 2 Liliana of the veil, scooze death rite shaman 1 wasteland, 3 hymn to torach, 1 baleful strix. 3 brainstorm And probably some others. I have access to borrowing 1 underground sea, 1 tropical island, 1 jace the mind sculptor.
So what deck do you recommend? And I want to build up to I deck I would like to play it doesn't have to clock in at $1000, also what replacements/buying order would you recommend until I build the full deck?
Hello! Thank you for the reply! I've been interested in shardless bug since I started to hear about the legacy forma but never though I could ever be able to build it but now I can so yay there's that. And yes I have 3 polluted delta? 4 strands, 2 verdant catacombs, 2 Abrupt Decay I also own 3 thoughtseize. I sold my 2 creeping tar pit once twin got banned...so how does the priority list go for you? Probably bayou-wasteland-goyf-ancestral vision-deathrite-shardless agent? Also should I run the 2 duels I'm being lent and buy the 3rd and fill in rest with shocks and a couple basics? Or I could add in a couple more fetches. Also what about jace the mind sculptor? Could you help me make a list of the best things for this deck that clock in at $1000 minus the things I own and the cards I can borrow? Question about playstyle how grindy is the deck? Top deck wars? And also how long do the games tend to take? I have played control decks in magic since I began playing magic 5 years ago I'm pretty proficient with control decks but I'm wondering if I need to worry about the clock and closing games out?
Thanks for the recommendation and cheers!
If it were me, I actually wouldn't start with the duals at all, on the theory that substitutes exist for those cards. Substitutes don't exist, on the other hand, for Tarmogoyf, Jace, the namesake Shardless Agent, Ancestral, DRS, and many other cards that form the meat of the deck. I'd rather be slinging shock lands with Goyf than duals with Werebear.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
I think I would actually reverse your priorities. DRS is one of the best cards in the deck, Shardless is the namesake, Vision and Goyf are the payoff cards and win conditions, Wastelands can give you occasional free wins, and the Bayou is just color fixing. I know you want at least one Jace. I have no idea if you need a second or a third. You really want to be talking to someone who actually plays the deck for those kinds of discussions.
With zero searching around and only looking at NM/4x copies on TCGPlayer, I could find 3 DRS, 2 Goyf, 4 Agents, 1 Bayou, 3 Visions, and 2 Wastelands for around $750. That leaves you some budget for sideboard cards and the other maindeck stuff I haven't mentioned, like Baleful Strix/other discard/etc. I would take that information and do 3 things. First, check out the Shardless threads here and at the source (no idea how active the MTGS one is but the source is hopping and you want a broad range of options) to try and get some idea of what cards you need, what cards are most important to the deck, and how many copies you're after. Also, I don't play the deck and have no idea about the finer points of its construction. Don't forget the sideboard. Most of those shouldn't be too bad or can be replaced with cheaper options (Spell Pierce instead of Flusterstorm, for example) but there are some popular options that may cost a little more. Second, proxy the deck up or load up one of the free programs and make sure you like playing it. It's certainly not impossible to switch between decks and Shardless runs a few staple cards but you still don't really want to have to buy and sell if you don't have to. Third, do more bargain hunting than I have. I promise you can get everything listed there for less than $750 with even minimal time searching for deals. Things like worse conditions, particularly for any duals you end up buying, can drop prices a lot and there are good deals to be had on a lot of the pricier stuff in places like the high end facebook group. On the same note, be patient. One of the perks of legacy is that you can build a deck over time. If you can borrow or proxy what you don't have until you find a good price that's not the end of the world.
The deck is grindy and full of card advantage but I don't think of it as one that goes to time a lot. Goyf and Jace can do a lot of work closing out games, the 1/1 and 2/2 beatdown plan is an effective one if you're backing it up with a grip of disruption, and DRS can do a surprising amount of work. Just remember to chip in damage here and there when you can and you should be alright.
Eldrazi (this is huge in my meta)
Mono Black Reanimator
Belcher
Infect
I would expect Pox to be worse than enchantress against that line-up.
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EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
1. When you're still new at it, you should expect to experience high fatigue -- even at mid-size tournaments of 5-6 rounds. You're able to draw an absurd number of cards a turn, and you will need to be able to adjust to board states that radically change from turn to turn, while also having a ton of decision points to make due to the large number of cards.
2. Moreso than many decks I've played -- Enchantress has a deceptively steep learning curve. This means that you shouldn't be surprised if you need a lot of games to get the hang of it or to even figure out if the "stock" list you chose is any good (on that note: I am a strong proponent of the GWr build with replenish and words of war that skips on Rest in Peace and Emrakul).
3. Due to #2, you will still be gaining measurable improvements even after playing the deck for a long time. This can be quite rewarding (it also means you can exploit skill differentials when facing opponents who haven't faced a strong enchantress player).
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RUG Lands is a control deck with plenty of deck manipulation, but without FoW or Brainstorm.
There are blue Stoneblade decks that are pretty controlly.
It's not seen much anymore, but Landstill is an out-and-out blue control deck.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
What I mean by this is:
1. It plays quite differently from all the "normal" miracles lists.
2. Unlike "normal" miracles, it generates hard card advantage and draws a TON of cards (dack fayden with Punishing Fire recursion gets nuts).
3. If your aversion is to playing a well-known deck, this solves that problem pretty well.
If that still doesn't sound great to you, I will mention that even as a traditional control player myself, I've really enjoyed Aluren. You end up grinding people out under raw card advantage and just winning off of 1/1 beats in a surprisingly large number of the games. The sheer mobility on the stack also appealed to me.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Twelvepost!
This might be putting the bounds of pretending pretty far out there, and a lot of cards in this deck aren't really used elsewhere.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730